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| Dr.LOAD | This is what I mean by "oil" being the driving force in the war agains Iraq, yet another wonderful example of how stupid and basic this whole thing really is. The United States Control of Iraq Iraq's scavengers have thieved and destroyed what they have been allowed to loot and burn by the Americans � and a two-hour drive around Baghdad shows clearly what the US intends to protect. After days of arson and pillage, here's a short but revealing scorecard. US troops have sat back and allowed mobs to wreck and then burn the Ministry of Planning, the Ministry of Education, the Ministry of Irrigation, the Ministry of Trade, the Ministry of Industry, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Ministry of Culture and the Ministry of Information. They did nothing to prevent looters from destroying priceless treasures of Iraq's history in the Baghdad Archaeological Museum and in the museum in the northern city of Mosul, or from looting three hospitals. The Americans have, though, put hundreds of troops inside two Iraqi ministries that remain untouched � and untouchable � because tanks and armoured personnel carriers and Humvees have been placed inside and outside both institutions. And which ministries proved to be so important for the Americans? Why, the Ministry of Interior, of course � with its vast wealth of intelligence information on Iraq � and the Ministry of Oil. The archives and files of Iraq's most valuable asset � its oilfields and, even more important, its massive reserves � are safe and sound, sealed off from the mobs and looters, and safe to be shared, as Washington almost certainly intends, with American oil companies. It casts an interesting reflection on America's supposed war aims. Anxious to "liberate" Iraq, it allows its people to destroy the infrastructure of government as well as the private property of Saddam's henchmen. Americans insist that the oil ministry is a vital part of Iraq's inheritance, that the oilfields are to be held in trust "for the Iraqi people". But is the Ministry of Trade -relit yesterday by an enterprising arsonist � not vital to the future of Iraq? Are the Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Irrigation � still burning fiercely � not of critical importance to the next government? The Americans could spare 2,000 soldiers to protect the Kirkuk oilfields but couldn't even invest 200 to protect the Mosul museum from attack. US engineers were confidently predicting that the Kirkuk oilfield will be capable of pumping again "within weeks". Thanks guys, way to make the world a better place yet again. - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 5:28pm | ||
| Anonymous | blah blah blah - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 5:36pm | ||
| Dr.Blowed | Hey, look! The sky is blue! BLUE! - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 5:37pm | ||
| Dr.LOAD | Too many words for you to read in one sitting annon? - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 5:37pm | ||
| Anonymous | nope I am just sick hearing all about the war...I can't escape it anywhere not even for 2 minutes unless I go to http://www.goats.com - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 5:40pm | ||
| Anonymous | I would have never guessed the 5 things wrong with that picture. - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 5:51pm | ||
| Anonymous | whats wrong with being a goat lover....maybe I farm them - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 8:16pm | ||
| Anonymous | thanks for helping keep this post up front for anyone who is actually interested in it. I'm not just doing this because I hate this war, I'm doing this because I REALLY hate the United States government as a whole and I want to help show as many people as possible exactly how dangerous they are. I LOVE BEING A CANADIAN! - Tue, 15 Apr 2003 9:21pm | ||
| A*Funk | Yeah, I can relate. - Thu, 17 Apr 2003 2:47am | ||
| Anonymous | Robinson Crusoe farmed goats. - Thu, 17 Apr 2003 4:30pm | ||
| Anonymous | goats rule...especially goats wearing clothes - Thu, 17 Apr 2003 4:51pm | ||
| Anonymous | where did you find this information? any links to sources? - Thu, 17 Apr 2003 6:14pm | ||
| Anonymous | We used to go out to the Beecher Bay Indian rez and shoot goats with the lads. FUN!!! - Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:37am | ||
| The Ref | Right on Dr. Load, your writing did not go un-noticed! I agree with everything that you have said. I too hate this violent regeme that has taken power in the US! Everyone is sitting back there back patting, saying how heroic they are etc... I'm just waiting for the ax to fall. They don't know the can'o'worms they opened up! Bad decisions always have a way of coming back and bitting you in the ass! I hope that the American people see what this regeme has/is doing to them. Syria is next, then Iran! People that don't think this are fools. Rumsfield, Wolfowitz aren't done yet! They are going to kill that country. Hope the citizens see them for what they are, evil. Hopefully the people will rise up and call for the linching that they deserve. - Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:48am | ||
| Dr.LOAD | Thanks Ref that was very well put indeed. I'm always happy to get positive feedback and I'm glad that at least a couple of people out there are interested in what I have to put on the table. My facts in this matter were gathered from sevral sources but mainly from CBC raido news, BBC news and CBC news. I try to get as little information off the internet as possible because (ironically enough) I don't usually trust something that just anyone could have thought up out of the blue. In this case the facts I used were actually fairly common information , I just put them all together and ladled a little "sas" on top. - Fri, 18 Apr 2003 4:35pm | ||
| Anon386 | Do you know how funny you sound Dr Load? This is the internet! - Fri, 18 Apr 2003 4:54pm | ||
| The Ref | Anon386 either can't read or misses every point ever made! Jumbo jets could fly 1 inch from his head and he still wouldn't get the point, I however did and thanks for the kind words DR. We are 20% vision/understanding, 10% brilliance and 70% complete and utter idiots! or (like I like ta call'em) "Docile cow creatures"! - Fri, 18 Apr 2003 5:01pm | ||
| Anon386 | Adding "SAS" to unsourced and unqualified comments about American interests in Iraq while at the same time pointing out how it is ironic that he (DrLoad) tries to avoid the internet for his sources is laughable. Maybe I should approach the CBC news to let them know that I heard from an anonymous poster on an unmoderated internet message board that the Americans are not protecting Iraqi interets. Iraqi's love selling their oil. Their countries borders were arbitrality drawn by imperilaists. The same ones who robbed the land we all live on! - Fri, 18 Apr 2003 5:07pm | ||
| Dr.LOAD | Any source on information is questionable Annon, but I will not waste more than a couple breaths of air on you're ignorant retort. Be it "sas" added or not, the facts available really do speak for themselves, and any attempt to argue that would be like trying to (pardon the low-brow expression) piss out a brush fire. I have no clue what strange bias drove you to post, but I assure you that your opinions are but hollow chatter to the learned population. And please feel free to write the CBC, as the majority of my facts do come from them, I'm sure they would like to see that they are being put to good use. - Sat, 19 Apr 2003 2:46pm | ||
| The Ref | RIGHT ON DOC! NO DOUBT THE WORD "FUCK" WILL SOON BE BEING TYPED OUT ON HIS COMPUTER KEYBOARD AND IN SOME INANE MEANING! - Sat, 19 Apr 2003 3:04pm | ||
| Anon386 | So the CBC has the correct opinions and most accurate reporting of world events? Why did the Iraqi people burn and loot their own resources in the first place? Maybe because it was doing the average citzen no good whatsoever. The Americans do need to secure the oil resources of Iraq so they can continue on into more threatening countries like Saudi Arabi who currently are their most important source of oil. The American government has clearly stated that it is in some kind of war with terrorists ( arab america haters mainly) with evidence to suggest that the most prominent are Saudis. Iraq had to be attacked first with further invasions and operations to follow. - Sat, 19 Apr 2003 3:05pm | ||
| Dr.LOAD | History shows that hate breeds hate Anon, and the actions of the United States will only make more of the world (not just the Middle East) want to distroy them. The "terrorist threat" is being blown way out of perportion by the U.S. government, and is no more than a cover up for their real motives. The fact is that most terrorist attacks in the U.S. are carried out by their own citizens. Remember Colombine massacre? Oklahoma city bombing? The sniper? Feel free to post again if you wish to make yourself appear a bigger fool. - Sat, 19 Apr 2003 4:23pm | ||
| Anon386 | Dr Load, from what I can tell you only draw information from news sources that agree with your point of view and you have no patience for anyone else�s opinion. You would be a prime candidate for the job of Iraqi information minister! Have I said something foolish? The American government has more at stake here than oil. Some would even argue that this conflict is about religion. So which is it, Terror, Oil, or Religion? The CBC has reported all three as being factors. I believe them. - Sat, 19 Apr 2003 5:09pm | ||
| The Ref | Hey Anon386 I would hate to have to speak with you in person. Everything that Dr Load says is clear, concise, non-biased and taken from many news sources. I know, I checked. Not just the CBC. As for your assertion that the US's motivation is Oil or religion. If you would do some research, you would see that it is much more basic than that! They are on the war path to keep the "almighty American dollar" on top! As countries join the EU and begin to switch their trading dollars to the euro, the US is feeling the crunch. If they control a large chunk of Oil interests, they control opec. They can force all of these opec nations to return the the US dollar by lowering the price. So, it's about oil and the safety of their dollar on a world stage. Fucking Nazi's! Everyone else in the world has to deal with the financial punches they receive, except the whining US government. If they can't run the game, then they won't play. No UN dollars for god knows how long! Exemptions from war crimes... Etc.... Check your facts before you post their buddy!!! - Sat, 19 Apr 2003 7:22pm | ||
| Dr.LOAD | Damn! Nice post Ref. - Sat, 19 Apr 2003 7:34pm | ||
| The Ref | TY Doc! Your points of view are interesting and informative, just wish if someone was going to slag them, that they would get their facts straight before embarrasing themselves. - Sun, 20 Apr 2003 2:38am | ||
| Teacherteacher | Damn Ref, you got it goin on! Fucking Nazi's is right! The preverbial spoiled little boy taking his ball home! They say that they are preserving their way of life. Bull, they are preserving the american dollar! If the rest of the world has financial probs, tough! as long as it doesn't affect them! This is the calm before the storm. This fucking government deserves whatever happens to them! Patting themselves on the back right now though! - Sun, 20 Apr 2003 2:40am | ||
| The Ref | Hey Doc! Gotta love it when ya get the last word? and the mouthy combatant goes sniveling away, never to return. Scccchiiinnngggg! Back into the sheeth goes the tongue lashing sword! Way to beat him down! Keep up the good work! - Sun, 20 Apr 2003 1:17pm | ||
| Anon386 | Ref, you and Dr Load can pat yourselves on the back all you want about how you have this conflict all figured out. Essentially I have pointed out how I find your oversimplifications silly. This has nothing to do with views I have expressed. They are merely offered as other factors to hopefully enlighten you with every statement I have made coming directly from traditional news sources. - Sun, 20 Apr 2003 3:58pm | ||
| Anon386 | So Dr. Load starts this thread with .. 'This is what I mean by "oil" being the driving force in the war agains Iraq, yet another wonderful example of how stupid and basic this whole thing really is. ' and the Ref's last thought for the moment is about how it's the almighty dollar. Stupid and basic is it? How about losing your apparent bias to people sharing your opinions and ill conceived attacks against those who don't. You might be surprised at what my personal viewpoint is in this conflict. - Sun, 20 Apr 2003 4:44pm | ||
| The Ref | Anon386-I believe, if you read carefully, I say that it is a combination of Oil and the American dollar verses the Euro. Nowhere do I absolutely say what this conflict is about. Neither does the Doctor! I apologize if I was a little harsh on you. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. And yes, it doesn't matter whether it agrees with mine or not! It seemed that you were being rather snarky about what you were thinking and attacking the Doc simply to argue, no reasonable facts. I believe that both myself & the Doc were being reasonable, succinct and non judgemental, until you became a little presumptuous and a tad insulting. I'm sure that there are many reasons for the US Gov to act the way it has, but I also believe that they have always had ulterior motives that aren't so apparent! Throughout history, when the US takes on something on their own, they lose... This is because most of the time, their answers to every national problem is to go to war! In all actions where the UN (as a whole) has been involved as well, the outcome has been safe to the world situation. The current Govmnt in the US is the worst of all previous Gov's when it comes to foreign policies! There are many ways to confirm this idea, that they have a hidden agenda in everything that they do with regards to foreign policies. It is a well known fact, (to the read) that this Govmnt has a manifest destiny, to create a democratic world model based on their own. A lofty set of expectations considering the rest of the world might not agree! It is also obvious (in all of their current/last 10year) actions, that they will only accept things that are good for their country. Now there is nothing wrong with wanting the best for your people, but when it encroaches on the happiness of others (not within their country), I find that extremely offensive! It is a well known fact that they are not past any kind of bullying (political or otherwise) to get what they want (Self-admittedly). My problem is this; where and when will they stop. If they don't agree with a Canadian policy, what is going to stop them from coming here to take what they want. It's clear that they will go to the other side of the planet for those reasons and we (unfortunately) live right next door! Let's not fool ourselves here! You can't honestly tell me that you believe they are there because of religion or for the safety and freedom of the Iraqi people. Pleaaase! George W Bush is a pawn for the Wolfowitz's and Rumsfield's manifesto. It is also a known fact that many of the papers written on homeland security and foreign policy that are reported to have been written by GWBush, were in fact taken from papers that both Wolfowitz and Rumsfield wrote. Almost word for word. If you take all of these factors into consideration, you should be (like me) very afraid! Put the facts together and you will see that the current US Govmnt is very, very, very dangerous to the rest of the world. We all thought for so long that they would be the ones to save us. Well wake up folks, they're the ones that are going to kill us! And this would have happened with or without 9/11! - Sun, 20 Apr 2003 7:36pm | ||
| The Ref | Why not let us know what your "personal views" on this situation are! - Sun, 20 Apr 2003 8:13pm | ||
| Dr.LOAD | I think that qualifies as "Game, Set and Match" Ref, any attempt to fly in the face of that logic will be, at the most, humorous. Thanks for putting Anon out of his misery. - Sun, 20 Apr 2003 9:53pm | ||
| Anon386 | Sorry Dr Load, there will be no end to this banter since every point can be argued. If you haven't already guessed I have simply been attempting to show glimpses of alternate viewpoints to be sure they are considered. I still find the not trusting the internet for info statement funny. My personal anonymous viewpoint ( ha ha ) is that the events in Iraq are a mere battle in a long term war that the US and OTHERS ( yes the coalition is real and made up of around 30 countries despite non UN approval) are engaged in. This war is economically driven and largely about protecting western assets in the arab lands. Unless sand and camels are worth something we all know what the asset is. Religion is used to rally the troops and justify killing etc. Just like all other conflicts in this world. Many of the poeple in the arab world would like democracy and the coalition is exploiting this but certainly do not always desire it. Saddam as an example was left in power after the early 90's clash because he could at least keep things stable enough and the assets were safe. Lots of people died as a result and although they have now been liberated ( for a while anyway ) most don't trust the coalition and especially the US and feel they were betrayed. With good reason I should add. Arabs for the most part are hopelessly uneducated and know bugger all about the people and country called the US. Most educated and wealthy Arabs on the other hand have been to the US, have relatives there, and of course have business dealings with Americans. The politcal borders and currencies of this world are becoming less and less significant. Do you own a credit card? Something like 7% of Americans will leave their country in their lifetime. Most stay at home. The terror attacks on civilians are misguided and stupid and are carried out by idiots who are a kind of casualty of the economic wrangling. I support the hunting and killing of them. I strongly believe this is on the American agenda. The love of money is again at the root of this all. I don't like CNN since they never talk about the reasons for anything.. pure headlines. Written news is where it's at. The more sources the better. The CBC is not bad. Good things come from reuters. - Mon, 21 Apr 2003 1:34am | ||
| The Ref | I beg to differ there anan, it's a much bigger picture than that! First of all, many Arab countries have a majority of highly educated people. Second, North American interests have some importance, however, the current US Govmnt is looking at a much bigger picture. It is and has been obvious in their foreign policies over the last (especially) 5 years. Many times in the past, the US has left their interest to be taken when a country that was amicable turns ugly. They eat the loss happilly, why? cause there's lottsa fish in the sea! I truly believe that 9/11 moved their aganda up a few years. They will eat losses all over the middle east as long as the long term goal (American style democracy) is reached. Look at Russia! Democracy was pushed so hard by the US. Now they have it and there are as many (if not more) starving people there then ever! The US got what they wanted and walked away! Leaving these nubies to struggle through their brand of Govmnt! I beleive that history will support my points of view. Again, I understand your point of offering an oposite opinion, or another opinion. But lets look at facts! Once you've done that, I think that you would agree! History, actions, reactions and repeated mistakes make all of these points very clear! - Mon, 21 Apr 2003 3:45am | ||
| The Ref | PS CNN is a joke. They are there for the car wrecks, nothing else! Information! What the fuck is that??? State owned news has never been more obvious. Fortunately, the ratings reflect that, Americans have seen through this farce of a new agency! - Mon, 21 Apr 2003 3:55am | ||
| The Ref | PSPS - The world will always operate under the dollar. Not the dollar that you and I walk around with, but the dollar in relation to the vaults that hold a countries wealth, whether it be gold or oil. On the world stage, the dollar will always be the main trading influence. A way to account for a countries wealth. That being said, the current US Govmnt is extremely worried about the rise in the use of the Euro compaired to their dollar. They don't want to see it's value dropped at all! As the Euro becomes more popular as a trading dollar, the US dollar (on the world stage) will take many hits. This is unacceptable to them! They want the US dollar to remain King of the hill! - Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:31pm | ||
| Anon386 | Well it seems we both agree that CNN sucks. The US in particular cites history to support their point of view that 'evil' dictators must be stopped early. The problem is that they are the ones who helped put the 'evil' dictators into power in the first place. The rest of us idiotic western governments think selling nuclear technology and other weapons to them is a good idea. The Frech in particular should be condemned. - Mon, 21 Apr 2003 2:12pm | ||
| The Ref | Yeeeuuuppp! And we here in this great country are also culprits. We sold nuclear tech to Pakistan (or India). They said, 'No vee only vant it for power production'! And where are they now??? It is also a well known fact that the current US government uses history incorrectly and in their favor! They are quick to site historical events that favor their possition and hush the ones that should be looked at (as you said). When the French bucked them in the UN, the horse shit that came from the US re the second world war and how they saved us all, started. I was quick to fire off emails to major US publications with an accurate relaying of the historical time line and events. Sept 39 war is declared Not until Oct 41 does the US enter the war, and that was only because of Pearl Harbor. Up until that point, they were making billions of dollars selling arms and material to both sides. WW2 is what made that country what it is today! RICH! Fucking Nazi's!!!! The new Richt! - Mon, 21 Apr 2003 2:57pm | ||
| Lise | Go to Diepe France.....streets are lined with Canadian flags....everyone, but the American's, know who stepped up in WW2. - Mon, 21 Apr 2003 3:11pm | ||
| The Ref | Thank you! - Mon, 21 Apr 2003 4:21pm | ||
| True Canadian | Was kinda hoping that the jet carrying George W would crash into the carrier on apporach! Haaaaaahaaaaaaa!!!! But unfortunately he got the chance to back pat and blah blah blah at the troops! Next! SHOWDOWN SYRIA! - Fri, 2 May 2003 12:17pm | ||
| The Ref | Are we all so forgetfull??? It's like we're all americans here! War won! So it's over??? These fuckers are patting themselves on the back and we forget???? Not I!!! Nazi mother fuckers!!! - Fri, 2 May 2003 10:25pm | ||
| True Canadian | Your points were so important there Doc, that you should be kept high in the threads! - Fri, 2 May 2003 10:26pm | ||
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