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Artist or Musician?
| Message Board > General Chitchat > Artist or Musician? |
| nicola User Info... | Ok, so I had this debate with one of the bartenders at Steamers the other night and I wanted to open up the question to a larger forum: Are DJ's considered "artists" or "musicians"? I could defend both points to some degree, but for the most part found myself calling them artists (not musicians).... What do y'all think? and Why? - Wed, 12 Oct 2005 1:38am | ||
| Robnoxious User Info... | They're actually the ones who take venues away from artist musicians. - Wed, 12 Oct 2005 9:11am | ||
| Lucius User Info... | Hmm, good question. They do create music to some degree and also need some sort of coordination to scratch so that constitute as a musician. However, those are loosely based terms IMO. I would have to say entertainer rather than either of those. Cheers Lucius - Wed, 12 Oct 2005 9:50am | ||
| The One After Two User Info... | What DJs? Most just hit start and put together a set list. I'll go with entertainer too. - Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:54am | ||
| BBJones User Info... | It all depends on who you are talking about and how each person defines each word, but in literal terms yes, DJ's are both artists and musicians. An artist is someone that creates something using imagination. DJ's most definitley create or combine using their imagination, skills and abilities. A musician is someone who performs, composes or conducts music. DJ'ing is relatively new in it's current form so I would say yes, they are putting music together in a certain form that qualifies them as a musician. While some people may not agree or like the idea of calling a DJ an artist or musician, you simply have to acknowledge the fact that what they do does require skill and is most definitely all about music. - Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:54am | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | my cats breath smells like cat food. - Wed, 12 Oct 2005 2:02pm | ||
| Rubber Box User Info... | My cat is a DJ - Wed, 12 Oct 2005 2:53pm | ||
| ASC Karl User Info... | Considering Music is a form of Art, DJ's are both artists and musicians. - Wed, 12 Oct 2005 4:48pm | ||
| XY-SATAN User Info... | I do not consider them as artists, they are similar to producer/editing , artistic director ...or a RADIO JOCK ! NEVER to be compared to a painter or sculptor etc. I don't even like the word artist being used with musicians . Recording artist being included as a performing art is just plain degrading to real artsee fartsee folk . Art to me is visual with a feeling or interpretation… this does NOT include music videos . And scratching records is like the equivalent of playing the washboard or a tambourine . You can only do so many "Rickey, rickey, rickey's" before it becomes the music filler ! Kinda like a triangle solo ! .......and here's a funny idea !? Why not a DJ using taped scratchings and mixing them ( do they even make records ?) ? Riiiight, the scratchier would be up in arms about wrecking their flow and sound . Then you could take well know snippets of great music and rap to it out of sink or beat with Dr. Seuss rhymes, would not that be shizal to the wizal ! Or better yet..... phonetically ! You know what I'm yakking about ? Lyrics with no rhyming, meaning or structure .... The art of gibberish talking ! Kind of reminds me of the beatnik culture of the 50's . A bongo drumming out silly out of sink percussion with incoherent poems …..fallowed by a dark shades wearing guy dressed in a turtleneck saying “cool maan , I dig your groove “ , snapping his fingers having no idea what the hell it meant . Hey lets just call everyone a artist man ! Sandwich artist , burger artist, con artist , recording artist , even a bad artist is a artist ! Yaaya ! Yes these individual are good at mixing and scratching , skilled and gifted at editing and blending . But a musician or artist ? … no. - Wed, 12 Oct 2005 5:00pm | ||
| nicola User Info... | These are some pretty fascinating answers... I still think they aren't really musicians... I mean... would you call turntables a musical instrument? If so, then why do you find them in the same department as all the canned music gear? Artist or performer, yeah... it DOES take a talent to be a good DJ. God knows there's enough bad ones out there. I'd consider DJ's in the same category as your soundman. It takes talent to be good, but they are electronically manipulating music that has already been created by someone else. Keep 'em comin! - Wed, 12 Oct 2005 8:39pm | ||
| DJ Icey Ivan User Info... | Entertainers. Artist create things. Musicians play instruments. DJs play tracks that artists and musicians have composed so they are neither. Djs are hype, and it takes far less skill to fade 2 records together than it does to play an instrument. Yeah, scratch DJs do some original stuff, but it's more sound FX, not music. You can aruge all you want that they are artists or musicians, but unless they can play riffs and melodies, they are not. The only thing close would be if they tap out beats on the plate. I've seen Mixmaster Mike do that live, and it was pretty cool, but that's more of being a percussionist than a DJ. For anyone to even consider a DJ an artist is all down to the mega hyped up BS surrounding the whole DJ thing. That's what Djing is all about. Hype. - Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:06pm | ||
| Gman User Info... | Would you listen to all the dolts who think they invented the 12 tone scale, already? Your melodies and riffs are over 100 years old, fatheads. You're playing shit invented by Bach, so who's a copycat now? Until you invent your own shit, I'd say STFU about anyone else's. - Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:33pm | ||
| I|I User Info... | Who cares? - Thu, 13 Oct 2005 2:52pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Rent 'It's All Gone, Pete Tong' and see how DJ'ing can win it's way into your closed, little mind. A great movie by the guy who did FUBAR. - Thu, 13 Oct 2005 4:06pm | ||
| The Box Drone User Info... | That's a tough one... It depends alot on the individual DJ... alot of them do indeed just slap records together, do a little beatmatching and that's it. But others do an aweful lot... making new songs out of existing records... sometimes they even mix records & blend the harmonics to create new sounds... scratching is a definate art form, no matter what anyone wants to say - that shit takes dedication & practice... reading the audience is also a big part of DJing... a great & talented DJ can kill the dancefloor if he just goes up and plays whatever he wants without any consideration for the crowd... Another way of looking at it, is to compare it to a visual artist who makes colages... there are some amazingly talented Colage artitsts, who definately take something and make somehting else compleately new out of it... Or a sculptor, I mean, come on, he didn't make that rock or that wood, he just carved it! I guess also really comes down to what you think art is, or what makes a musician. If you think of it, there are lots of people who play the guitar or the bass, who sing, but they aren't all necessarily artists or musicians... So CAN a DJ be an artist or a musician? I say yes. ARE DJ's artists or musicians? Not necessarily. But to address your original topic: what should you call them? Call them a performer. They're definately up there performing, and they probably won't take offence to the title. - Thu, 13 Oct 2005 4:45pm | ||
| The Box Drone User Info... | I should also add that you'd probably get some very different answers asking the same question at http://www.ravevictoria.com - Thu, 13 Oct 2005 4:57pm | ||
| Dick Jacker User Info... | "Your melodies and riffs are over 100 years old, fatheads. You're playing shit invented by Bach, so who's a copycat now?" And so is a DJ. Who is a copycat now? The DJ of course, because he is spinning somebody else's creation. Unless he is spinning a track he produced, of course, but that is different. Still, DJs like Oakenfold have somebody do the work and take credit for production. In the end it's still about hype. - Thu, 13 Oct 2005 9:15pm | ||
| Gman User Info... | "... he is spinning somebody else's creation." AKA "The History of Music 101". - Fri, 14 Oct 2005 6:50am | ||
| SPADE User Info... | What's a DJ? - Sat, 15 Oct 2005 6:48am | ||
| Onemosphere User Info... | Artist. DJ Shadow, RJD2, Blockhead, among others. I suppose those are producers but stuff they have made out of other peoples music sounds better than anything that has ever come out of Victoria. - Sat, 15 Oct 2005 7:39pm | ||
| Troutbreath User Info... | This question is like being asked whether you want to be jabbed in the eye with a spoon or a fork. - Sun, 16 Oct 2005 8:00pm | ||
| The Fatter Fat User Info... |  Are you an artist or a musician? I am a drummer what the hell is that Yaaaoooooo........ - Mon, 17 Oct 2005 5:56pm | ||
| Robnoxious User Info... |  | ||
| The Grand Poo-Bah User Info... | if you were to call DJs artists by re-arranging other people's songs, couldn't you say the same thing about someone who scribbles on the Mona Lisa? Sure it might look cool, or perhaps even better than the original, but the editor does not deserve the same kind of the credit as the original artist does, so don't call them artists. Musicians on the other hand? Once again if they're merely re-arranging another person's piece than no, but if they can create their own sounds to go along with perhaps a whole band, then I guess you could assiociate them as musicians the same as you would with percussionists. PS I wouldn't call musicians artists unless they create their own material - Tue, 18 Oct 2005 9:56am | ||
| Brendan User Info... | who has heard of kid koala? he's a dj. he also makes some of the most original, expressive and technically masterful music out there today. i used to be on the "DJs are not musicians, they're just hacks" side of the argument until i checked him out. when i went to see him live, there were rows of chairs on the dance floor. he wanted to make it clear that he was there to perform music that he wanted to be taken seriously, he was not a club dj spinning records. my jaw was wide open most of the time, i couldn't believe what i was watching someone do with 2 turntables. hell, he can take a trumpet note on a record, and scratch with it to play a blues solo, playing different notes (in tune to the blues scale) by scratching at different speeds. me thinks that people who say that ALL DJs are not musicians have not really taken the time to check out people like kid koala, the x-ecutioners, the invisible scratch pickles, etc. Yes, they use already existing records, but they use them to create their own beats, rhythms, harmonies, melodies, etc. most of the time you wouldn't even have any idea what records they were using, because they don't even begin to resemble the original. someone said on this thread that scratching was comparable to playing the tamborine or triangle. again, i urge you to check out the names i mentioned above. they certainly do more than "rickey rickey rickey" as you put it. they can do absolutly stunning things with a record, and to get to the level they are at takes years of practicing for hours every day. in fact, i believe these guys are now starting to refer to themselves as "turntabalists" rather than djs, because they want to distance themselves from the image of a dance hall dj simply mixing records together. i like that. i would deffinitely say that not all DJs are musicians, probably even the vast majority are not. but there are a number of very talented, expressive, original musicians out there whose instrument happens to be two turntables. - Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:17pm | ||
| Gman User Info... | "Once again if they're merely re-arranging another person's piece than no" Like Tchaikovsky? "PS I wouldn't call musicians artists unless they create their own material" So there are no Jazz 'artists' then? - Wed, 19 Oct 2005 6:33am | ||
| lonemonk User Info... | Brendan basically summed up my original response. Secondly, kid koala is certainly a freak of fucking nature it arguably takes MORE skill to reproduce solo instruments the way he does it compared with a playing traditional instrument. - Wed, 19 Oct 2005 9:42am | ||
| nicola User Info... | Sweet. This is the kinda response I was expecting. There are a lot of DJ's out there that just put on a new song while the other one is ending in some dance club and they call themselves musicians. That kinda bothers the musician in me, however there are some talented people out there that take records of single notes and turn it into some pretty sick sounds. "in fact, i believe these guys are now starting to refer to themselves as "turntabalists" rather than djs, because they want to distance themselves from the image of a dance hall dj simply mixing records together. i like that." I like that too. - Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:41am | ||
| Vegas J User Info... | Artists!! Musicians create the stuff in the first place........artists stick everything together. - Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:50pm | ||
| WILLEM User Info... | If you use the turn-tables as an instrument eg, scratching but also beet-matching, thats when you take different trax and put them together, that takes rhythm, and yes being a dj is also being a musician... you are playing music. But if you just play track for track, and thats all you do... hmmmmmmmm, im not gonna pay cover. musicians play the music, producers produce, like fruit. its all relative. - Thu, 20 Oct 2005 2:19pm | ||
| WILLEM User Info... | ooooooooh im a dj, so is my dog, but my dog produces his own crap, I get to clean it up. that makes me, angry. - Thu, 20 Oct 2005 2:29pm | ||
| XY-ZoFo4 User Info... | I think maybe a few scratchiers could be listed as musicians . I'll have to admit that ...that is if I ever see one that imprested me. But, you are NOT a musician if you're just choosing what records to spin or blended beats to transition into the next . - Thu, 20 Oct 2005 5:52pm | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | gimme a fucking dollar.... - Thu, 20 Oct 2005 6:29pm | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | Why?!? - Thu, 20 Oct 2005 7:19pm | ||
| XY-ANYODDJOBSFORACUP OF COFFEE User Info... |  I’ll be saving all my extra change for 1-900 numbers and video porn sites . Good day sir . PS- A buck for a duck , a duck for a fuck and 15 bucks for a fucked up duck ! - Thu, 20 Oct 2005 8:00pm | ||
| Ward Ensemble User Info... | I believe they qualify more as video game sound technicians. - Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:28am | ||
| The Grand Poo-Bah User Info... | To reply to "Gman", when Tchaikovsky re-arranges someone elses piece he is infact an arranger and conductor, not a musician. But I'm sure as hell as played piano or something to make the arrangement, so in his case he is a musician also, but that's different than a DJ who merely fiddles around with a pre-recording. And there are indeed jazz artists like Duke Ellington and John Coltrane because get this, they write songs! But the countless musicians they hire as a band I wouldn't call "artists", but still damn good musicians. And finally about that Kid Koala guy, I must say he's an exception to the rule. - Tue, 25 Oct 2005 4:20pm | ||
| hrp User Info... | A musician is one who creates music. An artists is one who creates art. "Create" is the key word here. Many people who play musicial insrtuments are not neccasarily musicians. Likewise, some people can be musicians playing a rock. Lets remember that one of the first musicial insturments was a log. Depending on the DJ they could be both, neither, one or the other. - Thu, 27 Oct 2005 6:51pm | ||
| XY-UGG User Info... | Yea, well GROG is still the Cro-Magnon to kick out that beat or maybe the knuckle dragging composer came up with a rhythm blistering mammoth tusk CA CHUNK that had all the ladies in the village ripping their beaver pelt thongs off to hear . And come on there's nothing better then a good beaver pelt on a cold winters night ! .......well I guess a Cougar pelt could keep you warm also . GROG worked hunting down that mammoth , risked his life , lived as a starving log thumper for many moons before ever branching out to the tusk . What the fuck would you visit a shaman who didn't have to learn how to ward off evil with a sharp rock to the forehead or even know the first thing about cooking up a brain or heart for ritual cannibalism ? I mean come on ? Really . And the thought of poor GROG not getting all the pelt a innovative musician should get , because some Neanderthal is getting it because they ripped of his tusk and log ... Plus with all the caves closing down there isn't many place for a out of work tusk player . - Fri, 28 Oct 2005 2:25am | ||
| The Box Drone User Info... | What I find really funny is when DJ's complain that people who DJ with CD's aren't real DJ's... - Fri, 28 Oct 2005 1:02pm | ||
| BBJones User Info... | I'd like to know where some of you get your "definitions" of musician and artist from? The dark cellars of your own mind? Understand that how you "think" something should be defined, is not necessarily going to be how something is "actually" defined. There are these strange books called dictionaries that help people learn what words actually mean... - Fri, 28 Oct 2005 1:14pm | ||
| Rubber Box User Info... | books? - Fri, 28 Oct 2005 1:48pm | ||
| The Box Drone User Info... | From dictionary.com... 1. One, such as a painter, sculptor, or writer, who is able by virtue of imagination and talent or skill to create works of aesthetic value, especially in the fine arts. 2. A person whose work shows exceptional creative ability or skill: You are an artist in the kitchen. 3. One, such as an actor or singer, who works in the performing arts. 4. One who is adept at an activity, especially one involving trickery or deceit: a con artist. And how does a DJ compare? 1. Arguable. 2. Most definately fit the bill. 3. Arguable. 4. Definately the first part, arguably the second part. The mighty dictionary has spoken: DJ's are artists... ...and so are many housewives. - Fri, 28 Oct 2005 2:00pm | ||
| The Box Drone User Info... | Once again, props to dictionary.com 1: someone who plays a musical instrument (as a profession) 2: artist who composes or conducts music as a profession 1: Arguable 2: Not really Verdict: Though there is a small margin of arguability, it leans more towards DJ's NOT being musicians. - Fri, 28 Oct 2005 2:08pm | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | A wormy question for sure but I feel that SOME DJ's are both artist and musician and others (most of 'em) are merely entertainers worthy of Ed Bain. Koala is a good example. If we say they aren't musicians then I guess anybody who uses a sampler (such as myself) or pre-recorded or "found" sounds (such as Stockhausen)isn't a musician either so that doesn't wash. The thing about the DJ culture is that it only takes a turntable, some records and some goofy clothes to get your foot in the door; it takes real talent to rise to the top of the heap. I've had DJ's in my studio that were so rhythmically challenged that they literally couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time. And despite the technological nature of their idiom most "turntablists" are dumbells when it comes to the tools of the trade (NEVER buy a record from a DJ; it will be fucked for sure because they (usually)have no idea how to set up and maintain turntables properly.) I also have issues with the nature of some of the DJ culture; for example having "special" records with effects or whatnot on them, shortcuts that make it easy for homeys to look good with minimal effort. Me, I only use regular records in my turntable experiments (and no, you can't dance to them). The lazy trend mongers (who are in the majority) make the truly gifted artists in this genre look bad which is too bad; the good ones really are "artists" in every sense of the word. The rest are just... Ed Bain except less funny (if that's possible). - Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:27pm | ||
| Colin {Sic} User Info... | what year is this ? 1997 ? This argument is old news lets just get on with doing what we are doing. - Mon, 31 Oct 2005 7:08pm | ||
| XY-69 User Info... | Masturbating to internet porn ? - Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:28pm | ||
| pubert User Info... | no, going 'whacka whacka whacka!' - Wed, 2 Nov 2005 11:53pm | ||
| XY-SPANKTHE MONKEY User Info... | That's what I said man ;) - Thu, 3 Nov 2005 2:25am | ||
| Petri User Info... |  | ||
| Petri User Info... | just kidding =0) - Sat, 5 Nov 2005 6:03pm | ||
| Ward Ensemble User Info... | I recently had an impromptu jam in my livingroom with a guitar player who ALSO djs. Now i guess im expected to be more open minded. - Thu, 24 Nov 2005 1:08am | ||
| Doppelganger User Info... | My Tuppence worth is that I would consider the good ones Artists but not Musicians and that most musicians have to come to terms with the fact that they're not being threatned. - Fri, 25 Nov 2005 3:40pm | ||
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