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Regarding producers...
| Message Board > Music Chitchat - Heavy > Regarding producers... |
| _Griphin_ User Info... | If you created a band and you were lucky enough to be able to pick any well known (or unknown) producer, who would it be?!? If it was me, I would be hard pressed to use either John Paul Jones or George Martin. - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 9:12am | ||
| ticklefish User Info... | Daniel Lanois Tim Rothrock Malcolm Burn - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 9:44am | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | Eddie Kramer or Ross Robinson. Yep. - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:08am | ||
| ML7Mike User Info... | Andy Sneap - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:20am | ||
| Isolation Ride User Info... | Glenn Orr of Victoria. - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:01am | ||
| Sudz User Info... | Terry Date or Andy Sneap - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:24am | ||
| Nathan User Info... | Apparently Ross RObinson is a real asshole. He is super picky of the bands he chooses and he won't let a drummer play unless he can play perfectly without a click track. So basically you have to be a machine, cuz not that many people out there can play perfectly on time throughout a whole song. - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:23pm | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | good records though.... - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:28pm | ||
| Brandon User Info... | Bruce Dickinson - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 1:16pm | ||
| Neil User Info... | Neil Kernon - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 2:41pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Eddie Kramer for the experimental factor. I would really like to work with him as well as Bob Ezrin. These guys appeal to me for obvious reasons. Sneap as Mike said, would rule. Robinson may be an asshole, but every album he puts out has flawless performance on it. That is why he has all the clout. Colin Richardson is another I'd like to try out. So many out there! I would like to work with all the prolific ones and learn as much as I could. - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 3:43pm | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | Bill Laswell is a gigantic asshole... he has also produced Motorhead, Sonny Sharrock, Derek Bailey, Bootsy Collins, Blood Ulmer, Public Image and even did a good job grave-robbing Miles Davis. Conny Plank is/was great (everyone from Kraftwerk and Devo to Scorpions) Brian Eno is a genius savant type producer who taught Dan Lanois everything he knows (but couldn't teach him good taste). Don Was has a golden touch with more pop oriented artists. He got so popular as a producer that his band (Was (Not Was)) had to break up (shit!). Damn there's so many; remember, "producer" is often just another way to say "opinionated asshole" (I can hear you all saying "Yeah, he should know!). And I'm with whatsisname; click tracks suck the life out of music. - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 4:57pm | ||
| Mac User Info... | That was a very insightful and thoughtful post Zippgunn. - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 7:30pm | ||
| micoll User Info... | i'd say max martin hands down. - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 7:36pm | ||
| Nathan User Info... | I doubt that you know many drummers that can play perfect time without a click. And why would you work with an asshole? Its up to you, its your work...so why have his name on it. If you want to use a click it should be up to you. Personally i would want someone that i'd like to work with so that i enjoy playing the music. PS: how would a click suck the life out of a song? - Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:56pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Some people need to work with an asshole to bring out their best performance. Everyone is different and I personally like someone who is hard edged in the studio pushing me to be better and better. To each their own. - Sat, 11 Oct 2003 2:20am | ||
| Luke Puke User Info... | "I doubt that you know many drummers that can play perfect time without a click."thats funny dood! I know lots of drummers who keep perfect time with or with out a click track.Producers are usually untalented musicians with an assload of "great ideas" for fucking up somebodys record.Look at Bob Rock:crappy(has been or nevcer was?) guitarist.....GREAT PRODUCER!!!!(if Aerosmimth is your thing)I'd pick Scott Henderson locally because he allways has weird beer in his fridge and 20+ years of being in bands. - Sat, 11 Oct 2003 7:08am | ||
| created to kill User Info... | Fred Penner - Sat, 11 Oct 2003 7:15am | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | Well Nathan, music tends to breathe (I'm excluding most "club" music because it's usually made by and for robots). Quiet sections tend to slow down a bit while loud sections have a tendency to speed up a bit. I can do click tracks for drummers very easily (takes less than 5 minutes) so it's not that I'm lazy, but I find that when the song gets to one of these "transition points" that the drummers can't get their heads around the fascist jackboot of the click and they inevitably screw up. Of course all you metal nitwits out there probably love the steadiness of click induced drumming, but that's because, out of all the music types there are, metal has the least soul (and is arguably the most fascist and coservative). So for most metal bands I do use a click and it usually helps. - Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:06pm | ||
| SentencedtoBurn User Info... | Zippgunn - "Of course all you metal nitwits out there probably love the steadiness of click induced drumming, but that's because, out of all the music types there are, metal has the least soul (and is arguably the most fascist and coservative)" I'll agree with your point that metal is arguably the most fascist/conservative form of music. It's filled with elitists, and close mindedness - to a certain extent. But your gross usage of, and dependency on assumption/ generalization, is the primary downfall of your argument. Some of us "nitwits" understand the proper uses of dynamics. I'm sure if you were to listen to any number of accomplished metal musicians, you would easily identify their abilities' to operate outside of this monotonous style of drumming/dynamic/rhythm you speak of. But that ofcourse, would completely deflate your point. And one more thing - "metal has no soul?" That is the biggest crock of shit I have ever heard. - Sat, 11 Oct 2003 1:44pm | ||
| Music User Info... | Mutt Lange Bob Rock LA Reid - Sat, 11 Oct 2003 6:28pm | ||
| Nik Olaz User Info... | George Clinton should produce my bands stuff...imagine his allmighty skill applied to death metal...surely a thing of beauty i agree with SentencedToBurn, metal has more soul than most genres out there today. - Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:08pm | ||
| micoll User Info... | click tracks sucks. jack nietzsche is the best. - Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:39pm | ||
| Johny Howard User Info... | tolan mcneil is a happy man who makes great music and produces great records. just witness, and by witness i mean aurally witness, his work with frog eyes, chet, carolyn mark, johnny concerned, rae spoon, bla bla. the best part about tolan is that he rules. - Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:42pm | ||
| Lordpatch User Info... | Lee "Scratch" Perry Mike Chapman Dr Dre Rza Conny Plank Ed Stasium Steve Albini Ian Taylor David Byrne (B-52's "Mesopotamia" UK edition) Tricky Neckbeard King Tubby Lindsay Buckingham Brian Wilson Fred Wreck Nick Lowe Chris D. Andrew Loog Oldham Ric Ocasek Ray Manzarek Roy Thomas Baker Massive Attack George Clinton John Cale John Anthony Donald and David Was Spot Portishead Russ Titelman Chris Blackwell (just for amping on the bass to The B-52's) The Glimmer Twins http://www.perrific.com/cds/wildgift.html - Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:55pm | ||
| METALNECK User Info... | Devin Townsend people, its all about Devin Townsend. - Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:03pm | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | I'm not a big Devin Townsend fan. I dunno, perhaps it's teh style of music he plays, too much happening at once to really grasp any of the music. But, that's my opinion. - Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:42pm | ||
| ann User Info... | what about Phil Spector? isn't he crazy...or going to jail or something? - Sun, 12 Oct 2003 3:29pm | ||
| The Mad Subwoofer User Info... | "George Clinton should produce my bands stuff...imagine his allmighty skill applied to death metal...surely a thing of beauty" Ummm...that's assuming you just can't live w/o a handclap backing track on each and every tune. 'Guess that could make "reign in bloooooood, from a lacerated sky...!!!!" a tad more catchy tho'. :-P Me, I'd go for Mitchell Froom and Tcad Blake...I mean jesus people? These guys are da shiznit!! - Sun, 12 Oct 2003 6:41pm | ||
| KnifeGhost User Info... | Futcher or Flood..... - Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:35pm | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | Phil Spector, and his "wall of sound"?!? Might be interesting to spend a few hours and experiment. It all depends on the style of music played, I mean look at a majority of Dayglo's recordings. Hell, needs more low end and a metal crunch!!! ;) Now look at Lummox or Bloody Hells. That sounds a lot better, cause it's the style of music and how it was recorded/produced. Though Bloody Hells needs to be mastered. It's a great CD, cept nobody can give me much info about it. :( - Tue, 14 Oct 2003 2:13am | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | BTW Nathan, I do know drummers who don't need a click track and can play perfectly (Gary Brainless rings a bell, I think Stephano can play well too). Could someone explain what a click track is?!? - Tue, 14 Oct 2003 2:17am | ||
| created to kill User Info... | a click track is what our drummer has been pestering us to do for months(kidding lincoln) , its a metronone counter that clicks in time so everyone keeps tempo throughout the song. most times during the course of a song live , the tempo gradually speeds up or slows down, click tracking helps maintain time and tempo.ive been told that after your subjected to a healthy dose of it you forget its even there and next thing you know you dont even need it anymore, i guess il find out soon enough. - Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:28am | ||
| ticklefish User Info... | a click track can also be programmed to speed up/slow down as necessary, so don't think that the only use for a click track is to keep the song at the same beat all the way through, it is just to keep it in time. But, from my own experience, I have to agree that click tracks can suck the life out of the music, but that is only partly true. I found that the first time I tried to play to a click in a studio, it threw me right off and the playing had no soul at all because I was concentrating on playing in time and not playing with feel. But if you practise to a click track regularly, then it does eventually become "invisible", and it really helps in the studio to be able to play dead solid time like a metronome. Especially if you (which you may well not) want any MIDI stuff in your material. If you haven't played to a click, it is brutal to get a sequencer in time with the music, but if it is done to a click, it is as easy as saying "Hmmm, I wonder how this sample will work in this song" and hit play, and bingo it is in perfect time. - Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:52pm | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | perfect time sucks though. we like it when the time goes up and down! well, at least linken park does apparently.... - Tue, 14 Oct 2003 2:26pm | ||
| ticklefish User Info... | speeding up and slowing down have nothing to do with perfect time, perfect time is about having all the "1" hits happening at the same time. But hey, if you like playing with a drummer who counts "1-and-2-----and34" kudos to ya. - Tue, 14 Oct 2003 3:01pm | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | If ya can't drum naturally, then why bother? - Tue, 14 Oct 2003 5:01pm | ||
| KnifeGhost User Info... | I'm assuming you're not a drummer..... All (well, most) bands speed and and slow down throughout a song...... - Wed, 15 Oct 2003 8:09am | ||
| Isolation Ride User Info... | Timing that sounds like its running faster through the song then slows down to less....its actually the same timing....just divided,but still remains on time. - Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:17am | ||
| jackass User Info... | it's always nice to have a drummer with perfect meter..makes the whole band tighter live, because you can count on the drummer to finish that roll bang on every time...no getting caught on an up-pick instead of a down pick, etc. I totally agree that always playing to a click makes the music stale, but it's sure nice to have a drummer that is in the habit of keeping his meter consistent. Use the click to promote the tendency, but don't use it exclusively...unless you've got samples and shit like that. - Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:38am | ||
| Mac User Info... | Let's clear up this click track thing once and for all. A click track is a metronome.Something students of musical instruments are instructed to practice with,but not perform. - Wed, 15 Oct 2003 9:03pm | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | Yeah, I've gotta pick up one of those Metronome-type thingies eventually myself. - Wed, 15 Oct 2003 9:25pm | ||
| ticklefish User Info... | Mac has nailed it right on the head. But hey, if you like playing with people who can't end the fill on the right count, or bass players who throw the accent in the wrong spot, kudos to you, and good luck with your recording session. Don't bitch at the producer when it sounds sloppy. - Thu, 16 Oct 2003 8:27am | ||
| ML7Mike User Info... | Griphin said "I'm not a big Devin Townsend fan. I dunno, perhaps it's teh style of music he plays, too much happening at once to really grasp any of the music. But, that's my opinion" I think we were talking about producers, not musicians.. Devin Townsend is also a producer, having produced everything from his own band, to Zimmers hole, to Stuck Mojo, new Lamb Of God, Soilwork, the list goes on. Personaly I find his productoin varies.. I liked his work with Soilwork, but a year later disliked his work with Lamb Of God. I like the album, just not the production.. - Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:09am | ||
| Nathan User Info... | I think a lot of you people THINK you know people who have perfect time...but i still doubt it. I bet if you put a click to them the time would progressively get faster or slower. You may not notice because sometimes its hard. But there may ALWAYS be a remote change in the tempo. And about sucking the life out...bullshit...if you're in perfect time anyways how would you let it affect you? If it is throwing you off...guess what, you don't have perfect time. And Griphin, why bother? because its called practicing to get better. Thats like me putting a skateboard under a normal persons feet and wonder "how come they can't frontside-flip over a garbage can?". You work up to it. - Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:36am | ||
| Masturbating The War God User Info... | Hahaha, I was wondering what the fuck a 'click trak' was. I was thinking of something between a metronone and triggers or something. - Thu, 16 Oct 2003 1:14pm | ||
| micoll User Info... | nathan, i doubt that anyone could play mathematically precise without a metronome (and, honestly, why would you want to?). perfect time does not necessarily equal playing like a robot; perfect time is when a band hits at exactly the same time. is "perfect" time even admirable? i prefer a loose feel to a groove. - Thu, 16 Oct 2003 3:16pm | ||
| Robnoxious User Info... | Roy Z - Halford, Dickinson, Helloween Martin Birch - Deep Purple, Iron Maiden Personally I hate both Ross Robinson and Rick Rubin's productions(too flat). - Thu, 16 Oct 2003 3:37pm | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | Hey ML7Mike, doesn't Devin produce SYL CDs? See, that's what bugs me about him, the production work could be better. Devin's chaotic, at best, and it's really hard for me to get into the music. I'm sure he's better live, but I'm still undecided about his work, that's all... - Fri, 17 Oct 2003 1:06am | ||
| Choad Nob User Info... | I'd have to say Jesus Christ, he is good for anyone, and he loves us all, let him be the one to record yer vulgar, disgusting, perverted album, and name it after hin...call is "Jesus Cunt" then sacrifice young children and laugh at the misfortune of others. hehehe...god save us all...you twat - Fri, 17 Oct 2003 2:52am | ||
| jackass User Info... | Brian McTiernan - Hot Water Music and the last couple Thrice albums. Ryan Greene - didja hear the last Propagandhi album? the dudes from ALL @ the Blasting Room - Fri, 17 Oct 2003 7:01am | ||
| ML7Mike User Info... | No Griph, he doesnt produce SYL usually, although I think he may have produced the most recent one.. Im sure there are people more knowledgable on this subject than myself who post here... - Fri, 17 Oct 2003 4:06pm | ||
| The Mad Subwoofer User Info... | Ummm...people; a metronome or "click track" is to be viewed as a "referance point," no more. Anyone with so=called perfect time will hardly ever _play_ to that exacting standard...as that would be boring as HELL. As a rhythm player, I try to be very much aware of "where" perfect time may be so that I can play atop the beat (pushing the song) or behind the beat ( giving a more laid back feel.) Re: metal being souless. I kinda felt this too, metal being some of the "whitest" music around but now am of the opinion that any music that relys on repetitive beats is really choing that age-old tribal tool, bringing a community together. Same can be found in techno and world-beat I'd say. - Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:50pm | ||
| korn koiler User Info... | Zipp just says that because he is a crusty old punk that hasn't been in touch with metal ( or never was ) since about 1985. Tis a common misconception amongst non metal listeners that it all began and ended in the 80's. - Tue, 21 Oct 2003 8:08am | ||
| The Mad Subwoofer User Info... | Well, you're just a _tad_ off-base there Mr.Koiler. Zippy appreciates a bludgeoning heavy power dirge just as much as any young metal-head. It becomes more and more challenging as the decades wear on however, to hear "new" music that isn't completely formulaic and derivative. Certain genre's have their frameworks for sure, but you can still come up withj something inspired within that. Most metal just seems content to re-hash and is rather dull....some is fantastic for sure, but rare. 80's metal is to be avoided like the plague IMO, unless were talkin' the really over-the-top stuff; the metal underground if you will. Whatever....gimme Tom G. Warrior over those nu-metal yo-yo's anyday. - Tue, 21 Oct 2003 9:12am | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | I actually listen to and thoroughly enjoy bands such as Coalesce, Dillinger escape Plan, Brutal Truth and Burnt By the Sun (I call it the Relapse sound). I buy all their records when they come out, in fact. But I have no time at all for lame metal which seems to be the vast majority of it. Feel free to enlighten me on some metal bands that might concievably have "soul". I've recorded lots of local metal bands and they are all quite accomplished; we do have quite a strong scene for it here in the garden city. But you guys forget that I truly like EVERYTHING from power violence grindcore to opera and back again. - Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:36am | ||
| Korn Koiler User Info... | Relapse? Relapse bands mostly suck. Besides you didnt even name any metal. You have one grindcore and 2 hardcore and a metalcore band there on your list. - Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:07pm | ||
| The Mad Subwoofer User Info... | Ok, so you're more "metal" than Zippgunn; I'm glad we established that. :-P - Tue, 21 Oct 2003 9:07pm | ||
| korn koiler User Info... | No, we proved that Zippgunn speaks out his ass when he says metal is 'soulless' because he really doesnt know shit about modern metal. As in metal of today, not grindcore created by guys in a side project 5 years ago. Hey, he wants to blast his one sided opinion all over the board? - Wed, 22 Oct 2003 8:21am | ||
| korn koiler User Info... | "I've recorded lots of local metal bands and they are all quite accomplished" What? Who?? I thought the only 'accomplished' metal band in all of BC was SYL. - Wed, 22 Oct 2003 9:01am | ||
| ticklefish User Info... | yet again, we have a winner: Korn , do you know who Zippgunn is? - Wed, 22 Oct 2003 9:10am | ||
| The Mad Subwoofer User Info... | Wow Korn-holio....I get your point about metal possibly maybe kinda possesing "soul" but thou speaketh through thine ass in regards to Zippy....yer starting to look silly. - Wed, 22 Oct 2003 9:46am | ||
| korn koiler User Info... | Oh? Name ONE 'acomplished' metal band he has produced? I mean, there isnt even one on the island, so unless they came from elsewhere.. - Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:56am | ||
| Broccoli User Info... | someone needs to smack some sense into this 15yo angst box - Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:11am | ||
| korn koiler User Info... | Whatever. Zippgunn is always bragging about how much he knows about this and how much he knows about that, and now Im calling him on it. He has a bloated opinion, well so do I. What does he REALLY know about metal? Not as much as he thinks is my call. And I know for a fact that he hasn't recorded or produced ANY accomplished metal acts EVER. Tell me Im wrong. Tell me who he produced that are accomplished? - Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:21am | ||
| ticklefish User Info... | You have established yourself as teh eminent visionary of all things metal. Grindcore, deathcore, metalcore, whatever. Given Scott's track record, if he claims to have recorded some of the most established metal acts locally in the past 20 yrs, I take his word for it. I am not a metal fan, and to me these distinctions between all the varieties of metal only illustrates that anyone who is that deep into labelling all the different types of "metal" into all these little subcategories certainly goes to prove that any band that lets themselves get locked into such a tiny box most definitely does lack soul. I am interested in seeing your resume to "prove" just how "metal" you are. Or are you, as has already been suggested, just some 15yr old with too much time on his hands and no understanding of the local music scene over 20 yrs? - Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:09pm | ||
| korn koiler User Info... | I am in no way debating Zippguns accomplishments and merit as a producer. What I am doing is calling him out on certain issues. He claims metal has no soul, or less soul than other musical styles, but when I challenge his true knowledge of metal as it exists today, he throws me the names of Relapse core bands. Then he further attests to his self knowledge and expertise of metal by claiming to have recorded a number of accomplished metal acts! Who? My overall point is not to disrespect the man, but to challenge his right to claim metal has no soul. IF he were to make such claims about a style of music he has immersed himself into over the last however many years I would be the first disciple to bow to my more knowledgable elder. But he is making claims of a style of music that he is, realisticaly, Out Of Touch With. He claims not to be, so I challenged him. There are enough In Touch metalheads on this board who, although hating me because Im Satans Ass, actually know what is up with metal in the millenia 2000. - Wed, 22 Oct 2003 2:24pm | ||
| ticklefish User Info... | well, I won't dispute this any further, because my knowledge of metal is, well, pretty piss poor. - Wed, 22 Oct 2003 2:55pm | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | I love it when shitheads like Mr. Korn here take me to task because I call a band like Coalesce or Dillinger "metal" when everybody with half a brain knows that it's "hardcore" or "metalcore" or whatever. I say if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's probably a duck and if you want to correct me and say that it's a mallard, well then bully for you. I may not know as much about metal as Mr. Koiler but that's because I don't agonize over the tiniest differentations between metal sub-genres like he does. That's because I listen to ALL different kinds of music which I'm sure can't be said of K.K. As for what constitutes "accomplished" I meant it in the sense that the bands in question were good bands that played well and were having reasonable success on a local level. I've never recorded a "big" metal band and I hope to never have the chance; most of these bands spend about a month getting their drum sounds etc. and my attention span is way too short to put up with that kind of horseshit. And perhaps K.K. could steer me in the direction of a metal band that has "soul"; I would dearly love to know what constitutes "soul" in his universe. My guess is if he tripped over Al Green he wouldn't know what soul was. The vast majority of metal lyrics deal in way too much teenage sci-fi fantasy imagery with a lot of death thrown in for good measure. Me, I've had a bellyful of death and death related imagery, and I often wish metal bands would learn to spell. I love the power of the sound though, despite the profusion of cookie monster vocalists. My dog can sing better than most of 'em. The metal fetishism that permeates this board makes me laugh sometimes. Korn should treat himself to a live opera someday. - Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:19pm | ||
| KnifeGhost User Info... | Zipp, if you can't tell the difference between death-ghoul-gore-thrash-grind-axe-core and argh-fuck-kill-shred-deth(NOT "death)-zombie-core, you frankly don't have any business calling yourself a music fan..... - Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:45pm | ||
| korn koiler User Info... | See everyone? Zipp has NO CLUE about metal. Dont act like you do unless you do. You might know alot, but when it comes to metal you are an aging punk rocker who has experimented a bit is all. And yes, there is a HUGE difference between hardcore/metalcore and actual metal. But you wouldn't know, its ok neither does my dad. Al Green. Ok buddy. And its not all about the 'cookie monster' vocals but that sounds EXACTLY like something my dad would say as he pops his Thelonius Monk cd in. - Thu, 23 Oct 2003 8:43am | ||
| D�ds anger User Info... | Hey zipp - Want some metal soul??? Feel the will of the vikings!!! *Oh yeah, let that fondue pour on baby!* Listen to: Amon Amarth - Victorious March * Now for a closer listen to what I bet you mean by soul, try Opeth or Katatonia , if ya can't feel the soul outta these guys then you're hopeless, but I'm sure you'll at least be able to respect the talent anyhow \m/ * And just saw the comment from ticklefish about metal genres: Theres soo meny because Metal is that diverse, each genre has LOADS of bands which could even be further categorized, and believe me they have "soul" , just, alot are black and I don't neccessarily blame you for seeing that as none. If you care to have a gander: In Flames - Melodic Death Metal Amon Amarth - Epic *viking* Metal Vehemence - Epic Death Metal Slayer - Heavy *thrash* Metal Ozzy - Oldschool/plain Metal Judas Priest - Power Metal* Cockrock ;) * Enslaved - Blackmetal Opeth - Melodic Metal All That Remains - Melodic Thrash Metal Six Feet Under - Death Rock Skinless - Death Metal - Yes I could continue going on but im sure noone will even check out all these bands, and with these Im positive youll have a clear view of some metal genre differences as well as witness each bands own "soul" as it was put. \m/ Ohhhhhhhh....... Just saw this: "Of course all you metal nitwits out there probably love the steadiness of click induced drumming, but that's because, out of all the music types there are, metal has the least soul (and is arguably the most fascist and coservative). So for most metal bands I do use a click and it usually helps" BAD ZIPGUNN!!! BAD!!!!!!!! I hope after saying that you will make an effort to listen to the above bands, as that is pure ignorance *no offence intended* and if you wish to read any of the lyrics im sure youll find far more in depth than any other form *arguably* try http://www.darklyrics.org - Interested to hear your opinions on some, especially the lyrics. Oh fuck it, heres some inflames of the top of my head, I certainly havn't seen anything outside of metal with this sort of diversity: "Invades the skyline, inverting the fijords, claiming it's own existance with one single final word: Jotun" Try telling me what that simple one liner means, get it right and you win a dead kitty! :) - Thu, 23 Oct 2003 8:55am | ||
| korn koiler User Info... | "most of these bands spend about a month getting their drum sounds etc. and my attention span is way too short to put up with that kind of horseshit" Right, and it makes the drums sound GOOD, something a music producer should strive for. "I call a band like Coalesce or Dillinger "metal" Thats right, and they ARENT. Go tell that to a sxe east coast hardcore gang that takes pleasure in beating up drunk punks and stoned metalheads. "As for what constitutes "accomplished" I meant it in the sense that the bands in question were good bands that played well and were having reasonable success on a local level" Thats different. Local accomplishment means nothing except to us locals. "The vast majority of metal lyrics deal in way too much teenage sci-fi fantasy imagery with a lot of death thrown in for good measure" A typically stereotype opinion by close minded nonmetal fans. Sorta like the old saying that all punk rockers are dumb drunk and have no real message to preach. We all know its untrue, or at least I do, but thats the opinion of the majority. " love the power of the sound though, despite the profusion of cookie monster vocalists. My dog can sing better than most of 'em" Further attesting to your ignorance of metal. "The metal fetishism that permeates this board makes me laugh sometimes. Korn should treat himself to a live opera someday" Unlike the punk fetishism huh? At least most of the punkers on this board have an open mind to metal or dont say anything when they know full well they dont know shit about it. As for opera, my preferences range in the mainstream of Pavarotti ( I just LIKE Luciano's voice, dont ask why. ) But if its opera you want, and metal you like, there are multitudes of operatic metal bands in the world. You wouldnt know that though, being an afficiando of east coast hardcore like you are. In closing, I said it before Ill say it again. I have an opinion and my opinion differs from Zipps. Thats not to say he isnt knowledgable about music/production/hockey/anything old/ but he acts as though he is the be all to end all of metal judges, when in truth most of his statements in regards to metal are closeminded and ignorant, and very reminiscent of similar metal conversations Ive had with my many jazz cronies ( an EXTREMELY stuck up breed of musician ) Zipp, YOU said metal has no soul , I called you on it, and now I think your answers prove to anyone on this board who care, that you dont know SHIT about metal, and Im not talking 1980's here either. - Thu, 23 Oct 2003 9:05am | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | Boy, you guys have WAY too much time on your hands. Me, I have to terminate this fruitless discussion as I'm going on a mini-tour with David P. Smith. I don't know if we're alt-country, new country, psycho-billy, newgrass, power violence, german space reggae or whatever and I don't care. What I do know is that if I go to a record store and ask for the new Dillinger album it will be in the "metal" section. Our ersatz Norwegian friend here has made some interesting suggestions but since he can't even spell "fjord" I have to wonder about him. I've yet to see a record store with a "power violence" or "epic viking metal" section. And if it takes you a month to do your drum tracks then I must respectfully submit that your band is NO FUCKING GOOD (Monk would make an album in an afternoon, but I guess he's just a lame jazz dude, eh?). Don't forget your click track, kids. - Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:06am | ||
| korn koiler User Info... | And if it takes you a month to do your drum tracks then I must respectfully submit that your band is NO FUCKING GOOD Riiigght.�@and ive heard YOUR drum recordings. Not exactly industry standard. As for finding hardcore in the metal�@section. so what, you will also find LinkinPark�CKorn and Limp Bizkit in the metal section, and you wil find Green Day, Rancid and No Doubt in the punk section.. Music store genre pickers SUCK worse than your average raver. - Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:25pm | ||
| D�ds anger User Info... | Actually zipgunn fjord and fijord are 2 seperate things, and if I mis-spell its cuz im toking , type fast and dont spell check after. Heres a hint, a fijord has nothing to do with horses. - Thu, 23 Oct 2003 1:23pm | ||
| tard bowl cut User Info... | the zipdgun doesnot no anething abowt mettal and he iss stuk inn thee darc pitt ov no itt all obskeritee and hiz reckording sownds lik sumoun peed in a jarr ande thruw it at ae boreing graye wall an if i goe too his stewdio i wil peee on hiz mixing bored too mak itt sownd guuder - Thu, 23 Oct 2003 2:35pm | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | OK I give up. I'll admit it, I'm a total idiot, you guys are all geniuses and I've spent the last 20 or so years of my life wasting my time. But just in case I will refer you to Robert Christgau, the dean of American music critics, in his review of Korn's "Follow the Leader": "Korn deny they're metal; that's Judas Priest, all four-four and guitar solos. But they nevertheless demonstrate that the essence of metal-an expressive mode it sometimes seems will be with us for as long as ordinary whiteboys fear girls, pity themselves and are permitted to rage against a world they'll never beat- is self obliterating volume and self-aggrandizing display. Now calling up death-metal's signiature groan to prove only to prove he's authentic poor not-actually abused Jonathan Davis raps, recites, scats and sings dull tunes landscaped with eerie licks, odd bridges and a hyperactive rhythm section. How much his fans identify with "My Gift To You" ("I kiss your lifeless skin"), "Cameltosis" ("You trick-ass slut"), or the tragic "Seed" ("Do I need this fame?") remains unclear. But I'm parent enough to hope that they can find a more fully formed designated someone than a guy whose idea of transgressive art is netcasting soft core S & M to any teenager with a logon." (He gives the record a C-, by the way). And as for my drum sounds not being "up to industry standard", well they seemed to be good enough for Virgin, Alternative Tentacles, and Konkurrent amongst the more well known labels, and typically an entire record recorded with me costs about the same as the drum sounds setup cost with other studios. As for me I can only quote Lou Reed from the liner notes to Metal Machine Music:"My day beats your week". Or in the case of Mr. Koiler, month. - Thu, 23 Oct 2003 3:52pm | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | uhhh....metal? - Thu, 23 Oct 2003 4:24pm | ||
| The Mad Subwoofer User Info... | Ummm...Mr.Koiler I appreciate the fact that you have actually been rather articulate in your arguements. Zippgunn does have a very specific opinion in regards to this genre granted but his arguemnets arew also based on an entire world onf hands-on experiance that few could claim, yourself included. I take his opinions with a grain of salt as should you but also know that they were formed from direct, hands-on involvements and not from afar. Your arguements of what is "actual" metal are rather petty IMO, like saying "I am more punk than you.." and the like. Sott's "mallard" comment was very appropriate. Unlike debating with "jazzbo's" (of which many of us aging punkers could be labelled as) Zippy has not only listened and recorded many of this style, but probably has a bit of vinyl stashed away as well. He speaks from experiance. He can be accused of a great deal, but ignorance??? No way....the one point in your debating that just shoots the rest of your arguement to heck, sorry. - Thu, 23 Oct 2003 5:06pm | ||
| korn koiler User Info... | Not denying Zipps experience and expertise in general. But I challenge his overall knowledge of metal. I wouldnt challenge his knowledge of jazz, or punk or ecclectic weirdness because Id be the ignorant loser. But I also wont judge those forms of music, even though I have dabbled in them all and have at least a faint admiration for them. Personaly I find most punk rock is boring and repetitive and I feel the same of jazz. Some people feel this way about metal. But I wont JUDGE punk nor jazz because my knowledge of them overall is very weak. Nor will I claim to be the master of punk knowledge just because I have owned 15-20 punk albums in my lifetime. Zipp was obviously taking potshots at metal music, and I called him on it. Dont critisize until you have a thorough knowledge of what you are critisizing . It is easier to put down something which you dont understand. When people try to say Zipp is old , been around forever, his opinion is that of a victoria punk deity, well I dont give a poop because his knowledge of metal is SLIM. He would need at least 300 key metal albums in his collection ranging from 1990-2003 before I would even consider him thoroughly knowledgable on the topic of metal. He is an ignorant critic of metal, and his statements above further that to the end. Ill hand him this. He knows a little more than my dad about metal. - Thu, 23 Oct 2003 5:44pm | ||
| The Mad Subwoofer User Info... | Hmmm...ok. well then I guess we are back to "what is metal?" How would you characterize the specific, "true" vein that you allude too? I apologize if you already went over this at length. What bands represent the genre truthfully for you? I mean, as with any style there are of course dozens of "off-shoots" and interpretations of the original concept. Most of what is "popular" is in fact quite juvenile to many or at least exceedingly limited in it's scope. Any group pulling off a new, fresh spin on the genre is to be repected and encouraged even if I don't paticularily care for it myself; I am sure Scott falls into that slot nicely. You must know as well that some of us "older" types have heard SO much tuneage by our points that for us, there is really not much being done that could be considered "fresh" or worthy of our $$. I wanna hear something progressive and interesting, not just hack stuff. Scott has his interests and jaded opinions but he also filters them through a great deal of knowledge of popular musics roots, where it's been ad where it may be going so I appreciate his viewpoint on ANY genre. Why? Because, he has the ability to see through "fake" and "incencere" music, stuff that is just not respectable. What that means is having the ability to hear "good" music vs. "bad" music and telling the diff. No punk, metal, jazz....only good and bad, SO, maybe hiw knowledge of "metal" ain't voluminous, but his ability to seperate the wheat from the chaff is well developed. - Thu, 23 Oct 2003 8:04pm | ||
| korn koiler User Info... | Really, none of it matters. Personally, I hate metal. Zipp is just fun to argue with. Korn is the only metal band I like. Especially when they wear kilts. - Thu, 23 Oct 2003 9:12pm | ||
| The Mad Subwoofer User Info... | Fair 'nuff, keeps things lively 'round here I'd say. Now....about Korn being a "metal" band >shiver< ;-P - Thu, 23 Oct 2003 9:35pm | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | The correct producer will be able to take a live recording, and make it sound awesome on CD. BTW: Korn took something they never thought would become popular, and did just that. Kinda strange. - Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:23pm | ||
| The Mad Subwoofer User Info... | Careful about getting old man punk _too_ whipped up about these things eh? He's kinda fragile, held together by duct tape and wire. Don't think many others could match his fortitude when in comes to keeping those Seaburger Platters down tho'.....>shudder - Fri, 24 Oct 2003 6:52am | ||
| ticklefish User Info... | Griph: the correct producer can only do that if the original engineer who recorded the live performance did it decently too. The old adage in recording (and many other areas in life) is shit in: shit out. - Fri, 24 Oct 2003 7:40am | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | In the case of a live recording the producer usually IS the engineer. I'm beginning to think that most of you don't know what a producer IS. In simple terms a producer tells the engineer what to do. In more advanced cases he (or she) will also help the band out with arrangements or even help select and/or write the tunes. They might be the person who chooses who the musicians are (in the case of a solo artist). In metal the producer is usually more engineer than anything else. I myself don't do a lot of "producing"; most of the bands that work with me simply don't have the budget. And most of them don't need a producer anyway. - Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:37am | ||
| ticklefish User Info... | Zipp, maybe I misinterpreted the observation Griph made, I was assuming he meant that if someone came to the producer with a bunch of raw tracks recorded live that a "great producer" could make it shine, and I was merely saying that you can't polish a turd. - Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:30pm | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | fuck live albums you dinks we should all do what Poison did in the 80's with their live album - record it live off the floor in the jam room and put crowd noise on there afterward. That's the coolest. - Fri, 24 Oct 2003 3:46pm | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | Ticklefish, you are so right. A bad recording is a bad recording no matter how many gifted hands are laid on it. Garbage in garbage out blah blah blah... - Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:09am | ||
| Professor Satan User Info... | Thank you all for pleasuring me with your childish arguements about typo's and personal bias. These narrow opinions create the stage for a wonderful soap opera that I will reccomend to others. Bravo to all the players. - Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:53am | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | Exactly ticklefish. But I must of gotten confused, I didn't realize an engineer and a producer did 2 different things, I always assumed they were one in the same. - Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:56pm | ||
| ticklefish User Info... | They often are one and the same. But in general, teh engineer gets the sound to tape/disc/dat etc., the producer does something with that sound. - Fri, 31 Oct 2003 6:19pm | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | That's strange, but I guess that's how you record bands. - Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:25am | ||
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