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Safe Injection Sites.
| Message Board > Controversy and Quarantine > Safe Injection Sites. |
| The Queen User Info... | What's your opinion? Do you think this is a solution to an ever growing epidemic? - Mon, 29 Sep 2003 5:58pm | ||
| Shawn User Info... | THis is a brilliant idea. One way or another junkies are going to do what they do best, be it at home, in the Johnson St. parkade, or (hopefully) at a safe injection site. These sites not only provide sterility but also tons of information about rehab proceedures and the like. THe sites attempt to (ironically) combat this dubbed epidemic and at the same time are preventing the spread of such disseases as serious as AIDS. - Mon, 29 Sep 2003 8:46pm | ||
| rounder User Info... | I think its great myself, i just wonder, are people going to want to come to a sterile, neon light environment with a bunch of doctors around to get high? i know i wouldn't but i'm not doing junk... - Mon, 29 Sep 2003 9:21pm | ||
| The Queen User Info... | Good point....I don't know if users would like that environment or not. But at least they would know it's available should they need help. I definately think it is a good idea regardless. Something needs to be done, and this so far seems like the best solution. I have lost a father and a good friend to heroin....they're not dead...yet. People also need to realize that users are someone's loved ones and weren't always "low-life's". These are people who for whatever reason have chosen this path, it would be great to be able to give them some kind of support. Society is good at sweeping these people under the rug... (or pushing them out of the downtown core to outlying communities so our Tourist's won't know about Victoria's terrible secret.) I think Mayor Lowe is finally realizing that given a few more years, Victoria has the potential to end up like Vancouver's East Side. Hopefully he pushes onward with finding a solution. - Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:19am | ||
| DEATH User Info... | Well what I wanna know is where the fuck is my pot smooking booth!?!?!?! NOT FAIR!!!!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:55pm | ||
| Gman User Info... | I've got mixed feelings about this. Partly, it's good to address the disease of heroin addiction with compassion and help when desired. On the other hand, fucking junkies are always trying to steal my shit. Gman - Tue, 30 Sep 2003 1:52pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Every Monday I see blood filled syringes at job sites where kids come to run around in their bare feet. I am not required to deal with these hep-injectors, but I feel compelled to get them out of harms way. It is fucking disgusting and the problem of discarded syringes is rampant everywhere in Greater Victoria (not to mention the world). These Needles On Wheels people are doing a nice little service delivering clean hypodermic needles to wastiod, fuck-ups with no sense of decency. If they feel the need to give out syringes, they should feel the need to scour well known injection areas and remove needles on a daily basis. A safe injection area is a necessity and should be made mandatory. Addicts should be given as much as they desire. If they OD and die, that's a shame, but junkies are hooked for life unfortunately. There is the odd case of someone getting off the junk, but those people are the ones who actually want to be off of it. Anyone found injecting outside of these safe areas should be incarcerated immediately and be cut off their addiction and made to suffer. After they get through the withdrawal, they have the choice to never do it again, or get back into the hep-stick. If they choose the drugs, just give them a big dose of the pure good stuff and they can die happy. Anyone found discarding needles outside of the safe area should be shot in the face on site and buried in a mass grave in Hartland Dump with the rest of the garbage. It's one thing to expose yourself to death, another to expose everyone else. I have known junkies as friends and family members. They are all a waste of time and space. - Tue, 30 Sep 2003 6:52pm | ||
| The Queen User Info... | A lot of good points Mr.Hell! I totally agree with a stronger penalty for injecting in public places. Like you said it's one thing to infect yourself it's quite another to infect a young innocent child. Here's a copy of my letter to the Mayor. (He never responded.) I encourage anyone who feels strongly enough to write the Mayor and tell him about your experiences. January 30, 2003 Mayor Alan Lowe City of Victoria # 1 Centennial Square Victoria, B.C. V8W 1P6 Dear Mayor Lowe: I am concerned about the growing number of used syringes found in the playground behind the Crystal Pool. Although I am not a resident of this area, I do have a friend who lives on the 900 block of Pembroke Street. On his daily walks through the park, he finds needles and other related waste; he always takes care to dispose of them appropriately. One morning he discovered three syringes in his fenced front yard. There have been previous attempts to �clean up� the park; however, they have proven to be unsuccessful. Needles lay scattered two feet from the �sharps� container provided. Increased police patrol has not deterred the I.V. drug users from frequenting the park. Due to this, residents feel the playground is too dangerous for their children to play in. A playground should be a safe, fun place for families to enjoy. It should not be a place to be feared. It angers me that a few careless, immoral addicts endanger the health and safety of so many innocent people. As a temporary measure I would like to suggest a night security guard for the pool and park area. I believe a constant presence will discourage drug users from utilizing the park. As for a long-term solution, I feel we have been too lenient thus far. Would we be so tolerant if it were loaded firearms being discarded in our city playgrounds and parks? It is time to take a hard line approach, by introducing harsher penalties to irresponsible addicts. There needs to be �zero tolerance� for parks, playgrounds and schoolyards. The punishment must be severe enough to make addicts think twice before using these areas. When drug users drop a syringe in a child�s play area, they have lost all compassion. In turn they do not deserve any sympathy. Victoria has a serious problem that is far more widespread than just the downtown core. Mr. Lowe, I ask you to take action now before this situation escalates. Please turn Victoria into the �safe, livable city� it once was. Sincerely, - Tue, 30 Sep 2003 7:06pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | I would think that the City's inaction would make them liable in the event someone got stuck with an infected rig and contracted an illness. The bottom line is that the governments on all levels are afraid to step up and eliminate the addiction problem, because either they are profiting from it or they are just too stupid to see that the solutions are right in front of them. Start with the suppliers, end it with the scum who use. If I didn't have a dislike for hepatitis and HIV, I would collect all the rigs I find at work and deliver them to that piece of shit Mayor's desk to open his eyes. - Tue, 30 Sep 2003 8:06pm | ||
| The Queen User Info... | Apparently that doesn't work. The person I was referring to in my letter to the Mayor has already taken several bottles of used syringes to City Hall as a gift to the Mayor. (as well as the Vic city police station) I guess the main problem is where the hell would you put the safe injection site? Nobody wants junkies hanging out in their part of town. - Tue, 30 Sep 2003 9:25pm | ||
| Shawn User Info... | Thats true, and then what? Junkies relocate from parkades to a new location? its a tough call eh? - Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:41pm | ||
| Nik Olaz User Info... | As much as a liberal hearted, non-evil right winger i am, i'm sorry to say that I dont feel much sorrow for junkies. I know theyre people too, but it's hard to realize that when (as it's been mentioned) they inject in areas around kids and such. I know everyone says the safe injection sites are a good idea and all, but is that what are tax dollars are going to? Helping someone to slowly kill themselves? Better yet, why do people start on heroin in the firstplace? People have said that it's due to a harsh upbringing, but i've seen people with terrible abusive childhoods that would never even touch heroin (or so they say). Maybe we should look at the broader issue, rather than holing up these guys in some institution. - Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:33am | ||
| The Queen User Info... | I can understand how you don't have any compassion for these people. But the issue at hand is not the reasons behind why they started junk, the issue is WHAT THE FUCK DO WE DO WITH THESE PEOPLE NOW? I have worked in Pharmacies for the past 12 years. During this time I have seen many Methodone patients come and go. The success rate is not very good. Approximately 90% of methodone patients go back to using heroin. I think this is for several reasons: methodone doesn't get you high, it just takes away the craving for heroin.(most addicts enjoy the heroin high or the escape it gives them) And most of these people are not changing their social scene...so ultimately they are still surrounded by other users. Some people suggest that the gov't should just gives them all a dose of the pure stuff and get rid of them, or put them all on Darcy Island (once a leper colony)and let them die off. But let's face it, this will NEVER happen. And in my opinion it's totally inhumane. I don't think there's a solution that will make everyone happy. - Wed, 1 Oct 2003 4:49pm | ||
| METALNECK User Info... | A solution that would make everybody happy...... how about the government makes and sells heroin and the other good stuff to anyone who wants it without penalty and so they government is satisfied from the money they make. next make it so that when you buy it you have to have it injected for you by a nurse or whoever else can properly give a needle and wouldn't mind a government salary job. No needles. No drug dealers(aside from the government). More over priced government jobs. Or we can just keep doing what we always do. Nothing. - Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:36pm | ||
| Dick Splint User Info... | Contrary to what some of you are saying, Heroin addiction can be beaten, or at least controlled. The key is to keep people off of it long enough to have them develop or re-develop important facets of life that would be lost if they went back to the drug. Jobs, relationships, hobbies, education etc. Obviously, it is an exercise in futility to give them methodone and send them back to the same situation they came from. An archaic concept lacking any kind of creative thought that is a complete waste of resources and tax payers money. They are our problem. They cost us ludicrous amounts of money, they are a burden to an already over burdened medical system that we all need. Their habits endanger our kids. So do we just continue to bitch? Continue to relegate them to insect status? My father was a heroin addict. The day he pawned his guitar he vowed to quit, but he couldn't do it. He moved out west and met my Mom on the the Island. She let it be known that she didn't want him doing it. He kept doing it. They got pregnant with me and she let him know that she would not have him around as a father and a husband if he continued to do the drug. A fisherman friend of my Mom's took my Dad on a Tuna trip. They were a couple of hundred miles off shore for almost a month. My father returned clean and has not touched heroin since. It has been almost thirty years. He had two more boys, earned a Masters degree and has built a fairly high profile career. Watch him sit and play music with my Brothers and I and try and tell yourself that Junkies are an incurable waste of time and that trying to find a productive way to help them is a waste of time. A good start would be making syringes soley a prescription item. Then, limit diabetics and anyone else who genuinely needs them to no more than the amount they need on a monthly basis. Maybe it is possible to develop a syringe that will expire (will not work) after the first use? Make syringes very difficult to get and as a result, centralize the drug use. At least if it is centralized it can be moderately controlled. Have counsellors and mandatory counselling sessions on-site to see if they can find commonalities between users and develop effective strategies to head off potential heroin users before they start. Get junkies (semi-intelligent junkies who can speak publicly) into schools to show kids exactly what heroin can do. The Government needs to offer some kind of way out for these people. I recieved almost 30k from the Gov't to go back to school. It was from a Fisheries Renewal fund set up to help re-train ex fisherman. If they offer me a way out, why not offer someone who is in a much more dire situation than mine a way out? Avoid lump sums and make the incentives cumulative. Say, "Look, you want a way out? Well, here is a path to get you out. You make each checkpoint along the way and you can make it out. Fail to meet a checkpoint and you'll lose your spot on the path." - Fri, 3 Oct 2003 8:40pm | ||
| The Queen User Info... | Good to hear a success story. You are one of the lucky few that didn't lose a loved one to junk. You made some really valid points and have some great ideas. All we need now is for our politicians to listen and take action. That in itself could prove to be more difficult than getting an addict off heroin. - Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:09pm | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | People would rather take a blind eye to the problem rather then finding a solution. - Sat, 4 Oct 2003 1:09pm | ||
| Knoblin User Info... | How about SHARPS containers where needles have been showing up? It might seem unsavoury to have such items around your communities but Sydney, Australia and several European cities have drastically reduced "poking" incidents since these boxes have been installed. As well, the city should employ workers or contract people to pick up rigs. Of course, safe injection sites are a good idea. Any arguments against them are nullified by the fact that people's lives are saved by these facilities. And as for those who refer to addicts as "wastes" and otherwise monger hate towards them, fuck you. True, most addicts never recover but they do remain human beings and deserve do be treated as such as long as they breathe. I know better than most the frustration of dealing with the anti-social and deceptive behaviour that addiction engenders. Lock up your shit but give people what they need to reduce the harm that their lifestyle brings them. Its a choice to use, sure, but being an addict is not and a society as wealthy as ours is responsible towards the health of all its citizens. - Mon, 6 Oct 2003 1:16am | ||
| Knoblin User Info... | As for Dick Sprint's idea about "centralizing" use by limiting needle availability, well, that's a bad idea. In the late 80s, Edinburgh was having a heroin "problem" and the mayor at that time came up with the idea that if needles were difficult to obtain, people would stop fixing. Instead, what happened was that people shared their works and Edinburgh ended up with the highest HIV infection rate in the western world. Addicts have bad judgement. If you try to centralize their use then you'll end up making it likely that those further afield from where clean rigs are available will not make the trip. FYI, there has never been a documented case in Canada of HIV transmission by needle poke. Don't know about Hep C. As many clean rigs as can be available should be. I also think its ludicrous for exchanges to strictly enforce the 1 for 1 policy of handing out rigs. Thankfully, most exchange workers will give someone a clean rig if they need it in the moment. Otherwise they may end up using someone else's shit and infecting themselves or infecting someone else. - Mon, 6 Oct 2003 2:10am | ||
| The Queen User Info... | I agree that syringes should be readily available AND free. But why is it that diabetics have to pay for their syringes? They literally cannot survive without them and they are charged for them. I know addicts make bad choices and they will share rigs. Two people I know have HIV another person has Hep C from sharing. The sharps containers are in theory a good idea, but in most public places they don't make it into the container, but lay on the ground next to it. Addicts unfortunately are irresponsible when it comes to leaving their waste lying around. But limiting syringes is definately a sure way to spread HIV and Hep. And this transmission spreads far and wide....from the user prostitute to the married guy who decides to pick her up one night....to his wife...to their unborn child. It's not just junkies it affects. - Mon, 6 Oct 2003 9:18am | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Anyone who leaves syringes lying around on the ground where kids play, steals from their own family to support their habit and does this all because they chose to start doing intravenous drugs is a waste. A waste of time, space and life. If you or someone you know gets stuck with a dirty rig and gets an ailment because of it or gets ripped off by someone looking for their fix, maybe your view will change. It's nice that you have compassion towards people with this problem. It's great because I don't and someone needs to help. Good on you! Also, it seems the exchanges don't enforce the 1 For 1 policy because I see used needles by the dozens at my work sites. And my hatred is directed at the careless users and thieves. The people who don't put other's lives at risk and don't steal from others to support their dirty habit don't receive my hate. I have also heard (of course it's second hand info, but still) that there are a few city workers who have come into contact with discarded syringes and have contracted diseases. Not sure which one(s). I have had many close calls and it pisses me off. If you don't like that, then fuck you. - Mon, 6 Oct 2003 3:37pm | ||
| City Jerker User Info... | I know of at least 3 city workers(janitors)who have been stuck with used rigs.One of them got hit when she opened a parkade door and it fell on her shoulder.Really cool how that fucked up piece of shit junkie hid this rig on the top of a door jam like that.The cops say it a heath problem...the health care workers say its a police problem....it's a fucking joke and it's not funny anymore.Hurry up and overdose kids !!!!!! - Mon, 6 Oct 2003 3:59pm | ||
| The Queen User Info... | I know several gardeners and landscapers who have come VERY close to getting stuck. I also know that the Victoria police go around almost every night and pick up and dispose of used rigs found in the downtown core. I asked them once if that was considered part of their job, and they said "no...but somebody has to do it...the city workers won't touch 'em and I don't blame them." I can't remember the exact stats on how long HIV and hep c live outside the body for. I think HIV only lives for a couple of hours or something short like that, but Hep C lives up to 24 hours. Does anyone know how long exactly? I also want to add... Mr. Hell, you obviously have dealt with junkies before. And you say that they are a waste because they steal from their families and are irresponsible etc. Do you know how heroin affects your brain? These people DO NOT have a choice, they need money to fulfill their need for heroin. Heroin is an opiate, when you start using any type of opiate your brain stops producing dopamine. Your body needs dopamine (or an opiate) to function. It's like being so fucking dehydrated that you can't swallow and you haven't had any water in weeks... and your body is freaking out because all you need is some water... and you haven't had any...and you just need to get some... and you will do anything to get it because it is a PHYSIOLOGICAL NEED. Their bodies are screaming for it. They have no choice but to find money somehow to stop the screaming. So these people may be just normal people raised the same as you and I, with good morals etc...and some how along the way get hooked and become financially fucked so they are forced to steal to get their fix. I am not condoning stealing for drugs, but I just wanted to tell you the reason why is not because these people are all bad they just don't have a choice...it's a need to them...like food or water is to us. - Mon, 6 Oct 2003 5:01pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Their reasons are not important to me. If I am not stupid enough to go and get hooked on banging coke or heroin into my arm, why should I feel bad for those who do? Especially when they are going to rip me off even though they are family. Yeah, they can't help it, it's an addiction, etc. Tough luck. They were stupid enough to do it in the first place. We all make choices and those choices lead to other choices. It is a chain reaction and is all connected and that is just the way I feel about it. I find it difficult to feel sympathy or empathy for those who are numb. - Mon, 6 Oct 2003 5:41pm | ||
| The Queen User Info... | Well, the great thing about our society is that we are all allowed our own opinions and the freedom to speak our minds. As you can see everyone's opinions drastically differ and this is probably why the government is taking so long to do anything about "Victoria's secret". They can't come to an agreement either. - Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:54pm | ||
| Pooetry User Info... | Everyone does have their own opinion. The ignorant and narrow-minded ones that have been set in stone by most of our society hasn't seemed to make any positive progress in the numbers addicted, the numbers who die, or the numbers who recover. I think the safe injection sites aren't enough, but they are a really good start at starting to address this huge problem. I don't know if anyone on here has done any research on how Holland used to have a massive problem with heroin addiction, but the way that that country dealt with it has turned out very positive. On the documentary "Fix" it said that Amsterdam alone used to get over 300 fatal heroin overdoses per year. That was before they had safe injection sites and before they had the free heroin problem. Now, apparently, overdoses in that country are next to none. I read an article recently about how there was thousands of heroin addicts in Holland until recently, but with the free heroin program, there's now an estimated 1500 heroin addicts in the entire country, population 15million. Personally, I can't turn a blind eye to how large the addiction numbers are in Victoria (~2000) and Vancouver (~15,000). I'm involved with addressing some of the issues (volunteering) and as my educational background increases, I'll become more involved. As much as some people want to just walk away or put these ill people away on a new age Darcy Island, it ain't gonna happen. Even if it did happen, there'd always be more. Another thing that won't work is calling heroin/coke/whatever addicts "junkie" or "fuck you junkie". That'll make someone want to get better as about much as calling a kid "Fucking loser" would make him want to better himself. Calling people down doesn't really have a positive effect on them. I could go on, but everyone's got an opinion. This is just part of mine. I'm sick and I'm feeling maggoty and I don't even know if I'm making sense. Blah diddy fuckin' blah. - Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:24am | ||
| Brandon User Info... | In regards to kids getting poked with used needles it doesnt always happen on playgrounds or around schools. My mom is a grade one and two teacher, she had taken her class on a feild trip to the mcpherson to see a kids performance of something. One of the kids went over to one of those cement planterpots, which was were everyone else in the class was waiting for the rest of the students. She was about 6 or 7 and she got poked by a used needle. There are some people who would sue teachers who "allowed" their son or daughter to get pricked, luckily my mom was not sued. Needless to say my mom was stressed to the max for about a month while all the tests were being done to determine if the little girl had contracted any diseases, she turned out to be ok. I agree with Mr.Hell on most respects, although I have not had any family members become users. - Tue, 7 Oct 2003 1:02pm | ||
| The Queen User Info... | The Macpherson has been aware of this problem for some time. My aunt is the landscaper there and her crew dispose of used syringes quite frequently. I know they have taken new measures to deter users, like a night security guard to keep these people moving on. But there are still syringes found and homeless people keep breaking off the sprinkler heads so they don't get soaked at night. It's a bad day at work when you are digging through the dirt and wind up with a hand full of human diarrhea, once you stop wretching, you turn around and almost get poked by a needle. - Tue, 7 Oct 2003 1:32pm | ||
| King Bong User Info... | SweetGrass here... The first time you put a needle in your arm is a choice! Every time you put a needle in your body it's a choice. Safe injection sites would help create a bridge so different choices are at least visualized. No one is discussing what's wrong in our society that human beings are turning to needles to begin with. Safe sites are a good start but still only a band-aid to the larger societal problem. We must not marginalize people, it takes a village to raise a child. Where are the people of our village lately! - Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:31am | ||
| The Queen User Info... | People have been using drugs for centuries...(opium dens). It is not about to stop now. It is much like prostitution in the way that it is a part of our society and always will be. Granted there needs to be more awareness and programs for young people so that they don't turn to drugs in the first place. But I personally have a hard time placing the blame on society or on a shitty childhood. Society hasn't done me any favours and I certainly didn't have a storybook childhood. I have been offered drugs, I have tried them (not heroin), I don't like them. It is an individual's choice to try them...but not necessarily their choice once their hooked. The people who use drugs have an innate tendency towards them to begin with. It has as much to do with personality as it does choice. A friend once said that junkies are weak and we are strong....strong because we don't try to escape our problems through drugs...strong because we make the choice NOT to use. I always thought this was a bit harsh...but it has some truth to it. - Wed, 8 Oct 2003 1:30pm | ||
| created to kill User Info... | dont you have some homework to do queeny? huh? - Thu, 9 Oct 2003 8:28am | ||
| The Queen User Info... | Busted! damn. yeah, yeah....I'd better get back to it. - Thu, 9 Oct 2003 9:30am | ||
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