Forum Closed
The forum is now to new posts. All the historical content is still available to browse.
if you are looking for musicians to play with, please view the Bands Seeking Musicians list, or use the Musicians Directory
You can use our pages on social media to connect:
Question RE: Boost pedals
| Message Board > Gear Buy & Sell > Question RE: Boost pedals |
| BBJones User Info... | I hooked up a TS-9 to my 50watt JCM 800, cranked the level and I don't think I'm getting quite enough boost. Or, at the very least, I've no headroom left. Not that I have any clue how to measure decibels but it simply didn't get that much louder. And to get what seems like enough level, I have to crank everything so I don't get the tone I want. If the pedal is on anything less than full level, it gets quieter than when the pedal is off. Is this normal? Do other pedals generally give you more level boost? Am I using the right type of pedal? I know if I had a 2 channel head I could have all the level boost I needed... but for now all I can do is use a pedal. I don't really need much gain increase (but do want some) but mostly want a noticeable level increase. All for rock solos. There's a Voodoo labs sparkle drive on used vic so I checked em out. They get great reviews and come across as basically a TS-808 with a clean mix. Still don't know if they get any more level than a regular TS... Any recomendations or comments? Cheers - Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:03am Edited: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:27am | ||
| Mike User Info... | try a MAXON OD-9 there's also a OD-9+ with a boost switch. - Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:55am Edited: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:56am | ||
| Crux User Info... | you aren't thinking about it the right way. You're not going to find a pedal that will do what you want besides a volume pedal where you always play at a lower than full volume, then when you want it louder, pushing it all up. The boost that you are using(as well as every available boost on the market) will only give you a volume increase if you are playing clean. when used with a dirty amp it increases your guitars signal before it hits your amp/tubes which gives you a hotter/more distorted sound, rather than an actually louder signal. you need a louder amp or a volume pedal. - Tue, 14 Oct 2008 4:22pm | ||
| BBJones User Info... | Thanks, Crux. My amp volume isn't the problem. Its the boost from "well balanced rythym level" to "lead cutting through level" that seems to be lacking. I've got a list of pedals to try out and need to play with everything much more to really see what I have... - Tue, 14 Oct 2008 4:31pm | ||
| Crux User Info... | what you may want to look into is an eq pedal, pop it on for leads and boost the shit out of the mids and level. like i said, you're not really going to find what you're looking for, as the boost isn't going to give you much of a volume boost while distorted because of a tubes natural compression. but, that being said, try a bunch of pedals, you're gonna need to find something with a good set of eq on it to boost frequencies to get a perceived volume increase. - Tue, 14 Oct 2008 4:40pm | ||
| etohk User Info... | Or you could try putting the boost in the fx loop and turning the gain all the way off and set the level to taste. You definitely get a volume boost that way. The best I have found is a boss GE7 in the loop for single channel amps, but an od pedal works ok too. A good cheap od pedal is the bad monkey by digitech, very warm sounding. - Tue, 14 Oct 2008 9:55pm Edited: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 9:55pm | ||
| Derek User Info... | I got the same amp and had the same problem. Heres what you do. Buy an extra overdrive pedal.. or 1 quality line leveler or eq, however i noticed that alot of them add hiss and an overall ass sound. Anyways set them up OD/Eq---TS9---JCM 800 dail in your killer ts9 and amp tone then turn on the eq and turn DOWN the volume on the pedal. turn it off when you solo and you'll get your volume boost. now saying all that i pretty much just realized that Crux said the same shit in his first post.. but hell i'm gonna leave this anyways - Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:10pm Edited: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:15pm | ||
| superslacks User Info... | This is an interesting question, and Crux and Derek both have great suggestions. You use the word 'headroom' in your first post, while at the same time you're looking for 'boost'. Think of it this way; If you have headroom to begin with, boost won't be a problem. If you're already overdriving the pre-amp tubes on the JCM800 you no longer have any headroom, by definition. Headroom is basically the amount of gain you can add BEFORE the signal distorts. Once you've eaten up all your headroom, any further gain will only add distortion (some people call this saturation) - it sound great by yourself but your notes get lost when you play with the band. Yes, you can add multiple OD/Dist/Boost pedals on the front end, but if you're already overdriving the amp you won't get much perceived 'boost' unless, as Crux said, you tweak the EQ. The problem with the above scenario (ie. front loading all your OD/ gain stages) is that you create all the distortion on the preamp tubes, and miss out on that awesome EL34 overdrive! One of the things you might try is running the preamp stage on the amp low-ish (3-4) and the Master Volume as loud as you like. Then hook up a FEW OD pedals and maybe even a clean boost (ie. the BBE Boosta Grande) at the front. By keeping the headroom on your amp you'll better hear the pedals' actual sound, and then you can run a couple pedals in series without it sounding like mashed potatoes. And speaking of the actual sounds of things, most people don't realize the tone stack on a JCM800 is such that a neutral setting is '10'. So if you want to hear your amp's true character start with all the tone knobs at 10 and roll back on the frequencies you wish. If you start at '5' (as most people seem to) you're constricting tone AND volume. The JCM800 is one of the classics. Once you unlock it's secrets you'll love it for life. If not I'll gladly buy it off you. - Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:16am | ||
| BBJones User Info... | Thanks for all the advice and info. I have no problem getting loud enough overall, have plenty of headroom in my amp, have all the tone I want and simply am not getting enough volume boost when going to lead using just the TS9. It does get louder, but not much and the pedal is cranked (which is where I'm saying I have no headroom, in the pedal, which I'm assuming I need depending on the room/stage I'm in etc). I was also thinking about using a pedal in reverse (on gives the volume cut and off lets the volume boost through) and may try that like you say with 2 pedals. One for the volume control and one for the gain/lead coloring. Didn't know that about the EQ knobs on the amp, will definitely put 'er back to 10. Do you know if it is the same for a 1980 JMP 50watt? And no, not for sale. I did my research before seeking out and buying the 1981 50watt, it the type of amp you keep for life. I'll have to keep my eyes out for a dual channel which comes up for sale from time to time. I'd prefer no pedals of course :) - Wed, 15 Oct 2008 8:46am | ||
| Tyler User Info... | This is a very informational thread. I learned from it too! My intuition would have been Derek's suggestion but I don't own a JCM 800.....yet..... man I am stoked for the end of the month when I get Crux's - Wed, 15 Oct 2008 8:49am | ||
| superslacks User Info... | "Didn't know that about the EQ knobs on the amp, will definitely put 'er back to 10." Most musicians don't know this, but it's obvious when you look at a schematic. Nearly all tube amps (unless they have an active eq section) perform this way. Basically, if your amp is running without at least one tone knob set to max you are either doing something wrong or your amp is broken. Another option for your volume boost question is to perform a mod to the amp. There's lots of info about hot switch or master volume boost mods online. Then you wouldn't need another pedal. - Wed, 15 Oct 2008 1:14pm | ||
| Dopebilly User Info... | but mine goes to eleven! - Wed, 15 Oct 2008 1:33pm Edited: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 1:33pm | ||
| Dopebilly User Info... | there's a dude (J.C) on gabriola (at least that's where he last was) who's written books on mods to old tube amps. he turned my traynor custom special el34 (YB3) into a super custom special 6550, best sounding bass amp i ever heard. he'd give ya a second channel no prob and make your amp scream. I been thinkin'bout doin' the same to my 800. and ya.... ya never get rid of her. - Wed, 15 Oct 2008 1:44pm | ||
| dustin User Info... | try an electro harmonix graphic fuzz. 6 band eq plus distortion. also good for bass! - Wed, 15 Oct 2008 10:09pm | ||
| jenko User Info... | A 'boost' pedal, or overdrive, in the true sense, should actually do the trick. The MXR Micro Amp, Zvex Super Hard On, BBE Boost Grande, etc have LOADS of gain available. Way more than a Tube Screamer. Way. - Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:54pm | ||
| kivarenn82 User Info... | if you need your leads to cut, you'll need to boost your mids. which is what the ts-9 should be doing. if i recall right.. i think the 808's and the clones thereof should do a good job of that as well. - Thu, 16 Oct 2008 1:25pm | ||
| james User Info... | Ahhhh ok I understand what you are saying. Basically what an overdrive pedal will do is give you more smoother gain for your tube amp. It does not increase the volume level it's just meant as a gain booster. The TS9 is a great pedal and I found it gave me a really nice sound with the JCM2000. With the Peavey 5150 I am now using I find I don't really need it because I've got loads of gain though I may experiment some more. Lot's of players switch channels on their amp for different volume settings but with the JCM800 you don't have that option. From the sounds of it you are getting plenty of volume from your amp but are having trouble changing the volume so you can jump out for leads. I would suggest keeping the TS9 between the guitar and the input and adding some sort of volume pedal, preamp, switch or whatnot into the effects loop (if you have one). Set your amp to the volume you want for leads and then use the volume controller of choice to 'decrease' your volume to standard levels. This way you aren't "Boosting" the volume you are just backing it off for general rhythm playing. This shouldn't effect your tone negatively. - Thu, 16 Oct 2008 1:33pm | ||
| etohk User Info... | Put an eq or boost in the fx loop, do it now! - Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:40am | ||
| evilkleg User Info... | I concur with etohk. Stick an eq in your fx loop. Remember, if you keep all the bands the same and crank the level, it will function as a volume boost. Out front in your pedal chain will probably add too much noise, but through the loop it will be quieter and perform better. - Sun, 19 Oct 2008 2:50pm | ||
| Dopebilly User Info... | JCM 800 do not have FX loops. is a 66 mustang a hybrid? uh! - Sun, 19 Oct 2008 4:46pm | ||
| Lucius User Info... | "Basically, if your amp is running without at least one tone knob set to max you are either doing something wrong or your amp is broken." Everything you said up till this point was making complete sense. However, this is a very bad generalization. Cheers, Lucius - Sun, 19 Oct 2008 8:10pm Edited: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 8:13pm | ||
| Dopebilly User Info... | try different guitars or pick ups... mayhaps get an NOS 12ax7 for V1. I play a 65 SG with old dimarzzios and an 800. With that combo solos are unforgiving, ya know when fuck up. every guitar reacts differently with each amp. I don't think a pedal will do it. good luck in finding your tone and may you aquire many guitars and amps. - Sun, 19 Oct 2008 11:20pm | ||
| BBJones User Info... | Update for the interested: 1981 JCM800 50watt (2204) 2008 SG Standard I've tried 4 pedals now and basically everyting has the same result with just some minor differences in tone (at the level I push them too). Pedals: Brit Boost Blood drive BBE (the TS clone one?) Snot Green TS9 I was trying to find the sweet spot between too much feedback, not enough gain, and max level boost. I really couldn't tell a huge difference anywhere but will say I probably liked the tone of the Brit Boost the most (it has a little tube in it). But, for now, I've settled with the TS9 (since that is the only one I actually owned). Volume wise there is no noticeable increase or difference, but the gain increase does most of what I want by maintaining the "scream" of the solo from note to note. I'll be on the hunt for a 2205/2210 I think. Any ideas on what they usually go for? Something mid-80's I'm guessin. I'm thinking about $500-$800 depending on year/condition. And by all means, keep up the converstaion. Tons of good info here. - Mon, 20 Oct 2008 9:20am | ||
| Dopebilly User Info... | try changing your bridge pick up. I just put an old dimarzzio super distortion in my bass players 2007 SG standard. made a world of tonal difference. gibson come stock with the 500T (there highest output) I believe, but it lacks certain frequencies. you can usually getem on ebay for like 50$ or so. or get a local handwound one. just my too sensei. - Mon, 20 Oct 2008 11:17am Edited: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 11:18am | ||
| owl User Info... | Good thread ... You might want to create some space in the mix to be heard - have you tried turning down? All the band actually, especially if you are going through the PA. And try asking the drummer to take it easy on the cymbals while you solo :). P - Mon, 20 Oct 2008 3:17pm | ||
| superslacks User Info... | " "Basically, if your amp is running without at least one tone knob set to max you are either doing something wrong or your amp is broken." Everything you said up till this point was making complete sense. However, this is a very bad generalization. Cheers, Lucius " He he , OK maybe I overstated it, and I realize now how that could go horribly wrong like when someone takes what I said to extremes like a 2-2-10 setting. I DO stand by the core truth tho; If you start with your tone knobs at max and then roll off what you don't want you'll have better tone AND more headroom. In the context of BB's issue, I believe headroom is a key component in a percieved volume boost. I apologize for selfishly taking advantage of this thread to convey a bit of knowledge about how an amp's tone stack works. As an amp tech for 15 years I've seen all manner of "malfunctions" which we're actually just perpetuated ignorance (like when 'Doode' came in to my shop complaining about low output and bad tone - but he had the tone set to 2-1-4, . . . . or his friend with the Les Paul who wanted me to replace the pickups with new 'hotter' ones, but didn't realize his actual problem was the fact that he hadn't changed the strings since he BOUGHT the guitar - ewwwwwwww). Anyway, everyone should take what they read on a forum like this with a grain of salt. And as always, if YOU like how something sounds, that's all that matters. After all, Jimi Hendrix became a legend by breaking the rules on how amps were designed to be used. But as I always say, you can't break the rule if you never understood it in the first place. As for the volume boost thing, I notice all the pedals you've tried are overdirves. Have you considered a clean boost yet? I know it's been mentioned before, but the BBE Boosta Grande is relatively cheap and, if you like your existing tone, will/ should give you that dynamic boost for the leads. There's a GE-6 for sale on one of these sites as well, which would be good investment. Another tip o' the day - make sure you test drive things with the band. As with the EQ thing mentioned in a couple of the posts above, there's a huge difference between how it sounds alone vs. against a wall of sound. I'm thinking about how adding more distortion will sound like a boost when you're playing alone, but it will more readily 'disappear' into the sonic competition of a band playing at volume. Have fun, and try not to break the bank. - Mon, 20 Oct 2008 3:20pm | ||
| BBJones User Info... | thanks again, slacks. yes I'm likely to still try (rent) some of other pedals suggested so the search is not over. and yes I'll only be able to tell how things work with the full band... but also need to know I have more volume boost available for live settings you say you did amp tech for 15 years? do you do any privately? I keep coming across people with head issues that don't want to ship to the manufacturer (Mesa, VHT etc). If you do that type of work (or can recommend someone who does) feel free to make a post about it :) - Mon, 20 Oct 2008 3:38pm | ||
| superslacks User Info... | I've been called the Tube Amp Diva because I don't work for cheap and only work when I want to. ;-) The truth is I'm way too conscientious to make a proper buck servicing amps and guitars. And the sad reality is most musicians either have no money or flat out don't appreciate that level of service. Soooo . . . . that being said, yes I still take on some jobs when I have time. Better yet, if I can help you through e-mail and not have to fire up the soldering iron so much the better. I mostly do new builds and custom electronics now, and of course I'd rather be playing than fixing other people's stuff. People are free to contact me (superslacksatyahoodotcom), I always do my best to help. Cheers, S - Mon, 20 Oct 2008 4:34pm | ||
| Lucius User Info... | Slacks you are both a scholar and a gentleman.....well actually I can't confirm either but you do know alot about amps and its nice to see people contribute positively to this place. Cheers, Lucius - Wed, 22 Oct 2008 3:54pm | ||
| hoffa User Info... | clean boost = Klon Centaur They are in the $300 range but apparently are exceeded by none, good luck finding one in town though. - Mon, 27 Oct 2008 4:37pm | ||
| ender User Info... | sorry crux but your wrong. there are several OD\DIST pedals that will boost your volume and several, TS included, that will not. I use a decatone so I don't need any but before that my hands down all time favourite pedal was the proco RAT. a rat will boost your lead levels as much or as little as you want good luck - Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:48pm | ||
| BBJones User Info... |  I picked up a Marshall JH1 (jackhammer OD/Dist). It is marketed as a JCM800 in a pedal. It was about $80 new from L&M. It is hands down the best pedal I've used so far for giving my single channel 50watt JCM800 an awesome solo boost in all areas. It is the only pedal that I've been able to crank up to get the right solo boost/drive without getting horrendous feedback. I find it is actually extremely versatile for my setup, gives me amazing picking characteristics while delivering a juicy solo sound. Thanks again for all the help. http://www.marshallamps.com/product.asp?productCode=Jackhammer - Mon, 15 Dec 2008 8:41am | ||
|
|||
Not logged in
Log In / Register (optional)
Featured Events
Featured Historical Events
Featured Article
Newest Profiles
District of Saanich - Community Services
The Community Services Division of Saanich Parks, Recreation...
Open / Operational
Haute Curations
We sell original giclee canvas art prints to businesses
Victoria BC
Open / Operational
