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how to tour for $0.40/litre
| Message Board > Seeking Shows > how to tour for $0.40/litre |
| Dr. Fuse User Info... | Learn how to make biodiesel, you bunchadumbass musicians! Do something useful... - Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:02pm Edited: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:02pm | ||
| J User Info... | shut up hippy... i love burning my gas as i please! and the cost of bio-diesel doesn't outweigh the damage i do everyday with my 5 minute commutes to work! of course im kidding. did u ever consider the price cost to convert an engine to run on biodiesel? let alone to convert a regular gas to reg. diesel? I would assume that keeping a car that you paid less than 5000$ for wouldn't be worth converting it to any "more efficient" fuels. Take hybrids for example, they're fucking expensive to get into that market. But the one benefit is you dont have to do any conversions as it runs on both gas/electric. At the end of the day, im not willing to pay the initial cost of conversion as opposed to still spending 1.15$/ltr. the benefits do not outweigh the environmental concerns/cost/savings to get it done. Thats why us "idiotic" musicians dont convert... though i dont speak for everyone, but i dont think that you'd save that much in the long run unless you, hypothetically, spent every day on the road and never settled down. what's everyone elses opinion? i'd be intrested to hear from bands that do tour often, as opposed to bands that play alot locally(anywhere in bc to me is local)... and to see if they'd really benefit from changing they're transport. - Thu, 13 Jul 2006 2:45pm Edited: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 2:46pm | ||
| Dr. Fuse User Info... | Ok, I'm a dirty hippie and a dumbass musician, and proud of it, but... No conversion necessary for biodiesel, any diesel engine will run on it. Conversions are available to run a diesel on straight vegetable oil, for those who want free eco-nice fuel without having to make biodiesel. BUt making biodiesel isn't that hard, although a few nasty chemicals are required. I use free, used vegetable oil from a couple of restaurants, so the methyl hydrate is the only real expense, and it works out to forty cents a litre ($0.40/litre), not including my labour. We're currently incorporating the Island Biodiesel Co-op. Cooperatives are a nice form of a corporation cuz they're egalitarian - one $20 membership share equals one vote. Homebrewer members like me can now give their excess fuel to the co-op, who will distribute it to buyer members for the same price per litre as diesel at the pump, and the producer members will get recompensed at the end of the month when the co-op does its accounting. We'll also teach people how to make biodiesel, and work on lobbying government and educating the public. I got into it cuz I'm a cheapskate and always ended up broke after tours. But I've toured with Veronica Tangent on staright veggie oil in an unconverted 1988 Ford F250 diesel; diesel in one tank to start on, and then when it's warmed up, switch to the veggie tank. Runs smoother, over 60% fuel savings, it's now possible for us to tour and put a bit of dough in our pockets. We've gone down to LA, and as far east as Montreal. It's stinky, greasy work though. You have to check out grease barrels, ask restauarants if you can have the good stuff (ie, no water, bacteria or excessive food crud), and then pump and filter it into your tank or jerry cans. You'll make a few major oil spills, for sure. But in the end it's satisfying. Let me know if you have any questions - Thu, 13 Jul 2006 7:40pm Edited: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 7:52pm | ||
| J User Info... | "Homebrewer members like me can now give their excess fuel to the co-op, who will distribute it to buyer members for the same price per litre as diesel at the pump" so wouldn't it be just as worth it for the average consumer to use diesel? rather than using this biofuel only made by "homebrewers" or "co-ops"? If it costs the same but in the long run requires less labor, then I would think that 8/10 people would opt for the diesel. mind u i think that its a good idea, but it has to be a bit more accessable, in that it isn't just the homebrewers and co-operatives that carry it. So i guess in a couple years, should this take off, it probly would be more accessable... but for now it seems, from what you've said, that it is the same cost for an average consumer as diesel. And, diesel requires no manual labor other than pumping in the fuel. - Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:09pm | ||
| KnifeGhost User Info... | Diesel from the co-op require no manual labour, either. Brewer brew it, and sell it to the co-op. At the end of the month, members get dividends. They pay the same amount up front, but get money back later. And there are a lot of people who would rather pay local home-brewers the money than Shell or Esso. "mind u i think that its a good idea, but it has to be a bit more accessable, in that it isn't just the homebrewers and co-operatives that carry it." Homebrewers and co-ops start it. Early adopters go for it. If it works well for people, it catches on. Nothing happens if you sit around saying "well, nobody will go for it, so why bother?" Dr. Fuse, I wish you luck. If I had a diesel vehicle, I'd sign up. - Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:52pm | ||
| J User Info... | umm... so obveously you didn't understand what i was getting at. hours that would be spent "repairing" or "testing" or anything to do with that auto, would be money lost in your pocket. Provided you have a job and work regular hours. Using up my free time to fix a bio-fueled car is on the backpage of my priorities. What i was getting at is, despite those select few people that would rather go to a 'privitized' pump station wouldn't be enuff for the whole idea to take off. Think of yourself as a business... And then evaluate your time spent on the car, joining a co-op as a member; then compare it to, as it was said above("...distribute it to buyer members for the SAME PRICE PER LITRE as DIESEL at the pump")... what are the certin benefits for me other than the environmental profits? NONE... so my question is; is this new fuel system worth it in the long run versus using up our fossil fuels at the same price(environment not considered in this case)? 90% of consumers lean towards convienience rather than efficiency anyhow... and lastly, tho it is a good idea, i think time and patience will tell all! (good luck with the oil companies) - Sat, 15 Jul 2006 2:01pm | ||
| KnifeGhost User Info... | 1. Why would a car running on bio-diesel needs any more maintenance than any other car? 2. "what are the certin benefits for me other than the environmental profits?" If you're a member of the co-op, you get paid dividends. A cut of any profit the co-op makes goes back in your pocket. 3. Nothing ever caught on by waiting until the average mainstreak honky liked it. Homebrew bio-diesel is new and wacky. Right now all it has to do is work well enough to be worth the trouble for a few early adopters. If it proves viable, it'll take off. Did you ever give up on a band because they couldn't start with a record contract? - Sat, 15 Jul 2006 5:50pm | ||
| J User Info... | how does you comparing me giving up on a band because "we" couldn't get a contract, compare to using bio fuel in an automobile as opposed to diesel? WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY IS(now read carefully): WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS OTHER THAN THE ENVIRONMENTAL ASPECTS OF USING THIS FUEL, FOR ME AS AN AVERAGE CONSUMER? "I use free, used vegetable oil from a couple of restaurants, so the methyl hydrate is the only real expense, and it works out to forty cents a litre ($0.40/litre), NOT INCLUDING MY LABOUR" that last bit there... what was that? LABOUR!!! it does include some maintinence. hmm, so the average consumer now has this magnificent bio-fuel, of which you have to join a co-op(which promises you dividends in the end. Of which they'd have to be making ass wads of money before you would see a cent of that "dividend/profit"), as opposed to simply buying a diesel car and running as it were. Which sounds easier and more managable RIGHT NOW for the average consumer. Before you respond in a huff, im not opposed to this idea... Im simply asking questions that should be answered by the poster, not u... hes the one developing it. Sorry, but i would really preferr a response from Dr.Fuse. He has alot of good shit going on with this idea... and as a regular consumer i want to know all I can about it. Please dont take it the wrong way, i dont wanna sound antagonistic or like an asshole to you knife, your opinion is valid... but i wanna hear from dr. fuse on the issue too. And, if this does take off will you be going public or keeping it as a co-op(market wise) - Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:45am | ||
| KnifeGhost User Info... | Look, I've answered your questions pretty clearly, I think. I don't see how his answer is going to satisfy you any better. Unless just hearing it from the horse's mouth is enough that it makes a difference for you. The reference to labour was the labour he puts into making the stuff, labour that members of the co-op won't see. The point I was getting at in mentioning the band is that you don't seem to see the value in getting in on biodiesel until it takes off. People will get into it early because they believe in it, and the savings and convenience for people like you come later. Just as people start bands because they believe in the project, and the contract and comfort and profit comes later. It's a clumsy metaphor, but whatever. - Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:37pm | ||
| J User Info... | think of it this way then... if you were to invest in a company with out knowing every little aspect of it, would you feel reserved in any way about giving backing to the company? Bio-fuels seem, to me at least, a trendy momentary problem solver. With you answer knife, you haven't given me a straight response. You've said that I would have to join a co-op, fair enuff... but that doesn't benefit me in the long run, if this does take off. And your trying to sell me on the fact that nothing happens unless you make it happen, also fair enuff. But, nowhere are there any direct benefits to someone like me as an average consumer. I realize there is a slight savings on fuel costs, but more if i were to divulge myself into making the stuff. I dont want to have to make my own fuels, i want to be able to go to a pump and have the ut-most convienience at my finger tips. And if i were to consider changing my fuels over, then i would want to know every benefit and downside of the product in mention. that's all. - Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:48pm | ||
| ML7Mike User Info... | Bio Diesel is also sold locally by the City of Victoria ( all their trucks are on it ) and also by Colombia Fuels who I believe sell it at their Cardlock on Bay St. To drive a regular diesel engine across Canada and back with a van full of guys/gear would be about half of what it would cost to do it with gas, so thats a huge saving. Going bio would be even cheaper, if you made your own. Not sure what the price is these days on the commercial grade. back when Diesel was cheaper we toured in 6.2 litre chevy and the savings were HUGE for fuel. and I hear commercial Bio Diesel gets cheaper in the praries as of course that where they grow all the canola flowers. - Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:59pm Edited: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 1:00pm | ||
| J User Info... | really, the city's trucks are all bio-fuel run... that's pretty cool. And that columbia fuels supplies it, makes it alot easier than having to 'join' a co-op in order to supply yourself if you dont want to make it. i know that there's a savings when diesel is compared to reg. petrol, but would there be a significant savings in using the bio diesel rather than just going at it as before. with those cardlocks, you have to be a commercial driver to access that, yes no? - Sun, 16 Jul 2006 1:30pm | ||
| KnifeGhost User Info... | "But, nowhere are there any direct benefits to someone like me as an average consumer." Look, I've explained the benefits. If they aren't enough to convince you, that's fine. Nobody's asking the average consumer to sign up now. Wait it out until it catches on or doesn't. And with cardlocks, all you need is a card. I don't know how Columbia Fuel handles it, but when I was a kid we had cards for UFA and Superior propane. There may be conditions on them, but they're not only for commercial drivers. - Sun, 16 Jul 2006 3:00pm | ||
| Anonymous User Info... | wow. musians sure are smart. - Sun, 16 Jul 2006 5:26pm | ||
| Dr. Fuse User Info... | Good discussion going. Thanks to the articulate poster defending me, and good for the poster who wants me to reply. Keep on questioning, everything. The real benefit socially for the use of biofuels is the almost complete reduction in GHG emisiions (climate change gases like carbon dioxide). The fact that you can make it for $0.40/litre is a bonus. The co-op is dedicated to teaching anyone how to make the fuel. But you are right, it will be a business, and priority will probably be given to co-op members (at $20 a year, it seems a bargain to me, but I have a vested interest). And there is a big learning curve, especially when using straight vegetable oil. Lots of clogged filters and potential for engine damage. Biodiesel is the reliable fuel, tested extensively and mostly warranteed by manufacturers. In the end, besides the issues above, a big personal satisfaction is having learnt how to be free of the tyrany of the petroleum companies. My three hours a week seem a small price to pay for the privilege of not being a hypocrite, or a shallow-worded critic. I'm an old fart, so I'm not trying to imply anything. I've been at this for several years and I've made my mistakes and it has cost almost as much money as my fuel savings, but now I really will be ahead. The big question I have, is why try to limit the DIY ethic to music? Why not apply it to all aspects of your life? Keep the questions coming. - Mon, 17 Jul 2006 6:13pm | ||
| J User Info... | the last thing i wanna know, is how you guys are viewing being in direct competition with these petrol companies like esso, (s)hell, etc... ? do you think that they'll counter you, or perhaps join? Personally, I would hope they join. Money, profit, etc.. aside, burning cleaner and more effiecient might actually see my oil burning bastard get off the road one of these days :P - Tue, 18 Jul 2006 8:18am | ||
| I was a Punk before you User Info... | Bio Diesel is also sold locally by the City of Victoria ( all their trucks are on it ) I've worked for the city for 13 years and they tried to switch to natural gas about 6 years ago but the fact that almost all of the trucks that were converted started to break down all the time and the additional cost of towing them back and fixing the bugs(I heard they lost a few million)basically all the guys just run on the old gasoline setting.The new Smart cars they have for the comissionares DO run on bio-diesel. - Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:09am Edited: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:10am | ||
| Dr. Fuse User Info... | The city vehicles (not all, in fact, only a few) using biodiesel are only using B20; the 'B' stands for the percentage of biodiesel blended with regular diesel. So B20 is 20% biod, 80% regular petrol diesel. While a positive step, it only eliminates a fifth of the GHG emissions. I'm an advocate for B100, the grassroots community who run on 100% biodiesel. - Fri, 28 Jul 2006 6:54pm | ||
| Luke Iles User Info... | Your The Most Fucked Up Hippie Ive Ever Witnessed - Sat, 29 Jul 2006 5:52pm | ||
| kyle User Info... | Remember that episode of South Park- "Smug Alert," where everyone buys hybrid cars? That's exactly what this thread reminds me of. - Fri, 4 Aug 2006 1:54pm | ||
| KnifeGhost User Info... | Why? - Fri, 4 Aug 2006 5:19pm | ||
| Josh Rosario User Info... | Does anyone know a guy named Darryl in Langford/Colwood? He's got a crazy Mercedes that burns anything. - Fri, 22 Sep 2006 6:39pm | ||
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