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good value: how many dollars per band?
| Message Board > Music Chitchat - Heavy > good value: how many dollars per band? |
| [+} User Info... | when thinking about a show to attend (all ages or otherwise) do you agree with the "buck a band" rule that's generally accepted? i've noticed some shows recently that have 6 dollars for 4 bands: still good value? (also to take into account.. touring bands!) - Thu, 5 May 2005 6:13pm | ||
| alain User Info... | My theory: buck-a-band unless there's a band on the bill who has been getting huge turn-outs, then the price might go up. I'll pay $6 even if there's only one band I want to see, so if your bill is impressive and sure to get a huge turnout, the price CAN go up if it must (what with touring bands who should be seeing some cash to stay alive and healthy). - Thu, 5 May 2005 6:29pm | ||
| cooper User Info... | I generally agree with one dollar per (local) band. I have no problem paying $5 to see a show, regardless of how many acts there are. But that is purely because I hate change and hate scrounging around for a loonie to add to my fiver, or getting two toonies back from a ten! Touring bands are different and deserve to not lose money by taking the damn ferry. - Thu, 5 May 2005 6:34pm | ||
| Tambo User Info... | I remember when sometimes All Ages were 4$... I'd pay 6$, even 7$ if there's a few bands I want to see. I'd say about 1$/band, then 2$/headliner/touring band. So if there's 4 bands, even if all local, if there's one big local band like Kincaide or Tough As Nails, I'd pay 5$. But I'd probably do that no matter what, like this Saturday's show, even for 4 bands, I'd pay 6$ easy. - Thu, 5 May 2005 8:50pm | ||
| [+} User Info... | how much for three moderately big local bands and one big band from vancouver? 4 dollars still sounds good hypothetically, right? - Thu, 5 May 2005 9:27pm | ||
| Bryn User Info... | The "buck a band" rule is complete bullshit and undervalues the effort and expense that the band puts into performing for you. I think at a buck a band, we are expecting at least some of the bands on the bill to in effect pay to play the show. 8 -10 dollars is a fair starting price for a show. - Thu, 5 May 2005 9:27pm | ||
| alain User Info... | I'd say you should charge $5. Easy number to pay, not too pricey. I don't know who this Vancouver band is, but maybe have it advertised that they're from Vancouver (like you've probably already decided to do) so that people don't get the idea that the money is going to greedy bands, but to help a band get here and back without paying way too much to do so. I don't think people would have a problem with paying 5 bucks. - Thu, 5 May 2005 9:42pm | ||
| Edward User Info... | my opinion is invalid. here it is anyways: i never considered the fact that prices are based on the 'band by the buck' idea, and im willing to assume there are alot of us kids going to the all ages shows who also dont know. I usually consider the value of the price based on the popularity of the lineup, the size and quality of the venue, and its accessability.. - Thu, 5 May 2005 10:01pm | ||
| k8 User Info... | It's not so much the amount of bands as it is who is playing. I don't really pay attention to the price until it reaches $7. $4 is good but (I guess depending on bands) you could get at least $1 more without much change in turnout. - Thu, 5 May 2005 10:01pm | ||
| Tambo User Info... | [+}, if I were to go to that show, I would be willing to pay 6$ for it. I think that local bands usually aren't doing this as a way to make money. Being in a local band, I know that I don't really want to make money playing shows, I just want a chance to play live infront of an audience. Also, giving something back for what I receive. - Thu, 5 May 2005 10:08pm | ||
| Edward User Info... | too bad you arent playing anything anytime soon and no one's taking what you're giving snap. - Thu, 5 May 2005 10:18pm | ||
| [+} User Info... | sub-question: advance ticket sales.. who likes to have a physical ticket and buy _before_ the event, and who likes to buy at the door? let's say.. 4 dollars adv. 6 at the door? - Thu, 5 May 2005 10:56pm | ||
| The One After Two User Info... | I think $5 for three bands is fair. First band = $1 Second = $1 Headline= $1 Soundguy= $1 or flat fee of say $50 or $75 (some charge a $100 if thats how they nake their living), everything above the fee goes where ever, promoter profit or headliner Promoter/Venue = $1 to advertise the show, pay the people that need to be payed, and buy the promoter another box of KD so he can live to promote another show. Some bars sometimes pay a bonus based on sales that night. Do any do that here. They say like the magic number is $3000, if we do more than that in a night they pay a dividend to the promoter to split with the bands or whatever. Maybe 10% above the $3000... gives the bands some real insentive the pack the joint and get everyone ripping it. - Thu, 5 May 2005 11:35pm | ||
| ML7Mike User Info... | Local bands were a buck a band or maybe $5 a show in 1985. Now 20 years later everything else has doubled or tripled in price. Why does the band have to suffer? they work the hardest, spend the most and earn the least even if door costs double. And many bars take a cut off the door AFTER they pay the soundman and or security out of the doors GROSS leaving even less for the bands. At a buck a band your outdated theories end up giving each band about 50cents before personal expenses. Dont be so cheap, there's meth heads downtown who can bum $10 in half an hour. - Fri, 6 May 2005 10:07am | ||
| moron User Info... | Yeah, I totally agree. Ticket prices need to go up to reflect what it costs to put on a show these days. Event at $7 to $8 it is difficult to break even at most shows. For the Noise! Fest which has 11 bands this year, even at $10 I am still pretty much guaranteed to lose about $100 - 200 putting it on (that's so I can pay some cash to the folks coming up from the States). If you can afford to see a movie at Silver City you can afford to cough up $8 - $10 for a show. Anyone who thinks $5 is fair for a show has very likely not put one on ever or at least not in the last 10 years. Cheers http://industrial.org/noise - Fri, 6 May 2005 11:36am | ||
| Gman User Info... | If a band is registered with Socan, the ticket price needs to be $6, 'cuz then the band gets $75 directly from Socan. As we all know, the more little folk who can grab some of that Bryan Adams cash, the better. - Fri, 6 May 2005 12:15pm | ||
| Peter Gardner User Info... | Too be honest, I haveno problem paying 10 dollars. I look at it like this: COst of a movie is 8.25, and a show is usually longer, more fun, and more entertaining, so there for 10 dollars is justifiable. But at the same time, if there's only one band that's a draw, 10 bucks IS a bit steep. The only thing however, is as I live in sidney, I do take the bus, so theres an extra 4 daollars. So it ends up being 14 for me. And to answer the other question: For local shows: Id much rather pay at the door, because I know it wont sell out. If there was a chance it would, than obviously I'd rather pre-pay. But otherwise, at the door is much more conveiniant - Fri, 6 May 2005 2:31pm | ||
| k8 User Info... | I would pay $10, too, if there was a band or two I wanted to see and it was at one of the nicer venues. Honestly, though, I don't think you'll find a lot of kids willing to pay that much (for various reasons.) Tickets in advance are nice but don't make much of a difference for me. Peter, I'm pretty sure shows can sell out whether or not tickets are available in advance. - Fri, 6 May 2005 3:45pm | ||
| [+} User Info... | good to know. if it isn't blatantly obvious.. i'm putting on another show. awesome getting feedback. i think i will put 100 tickets at ditch. and that way, kids who want to save a few dollars can buy in advance.. and those who want to wait till the last minute can dish out a few more. ps. the show is going to be off the hook. - Fri, 6 May 2005 4:06pm | ||
| Peter Gardner User Info... | Oh, I know that. Im just saying, the average show at say the Gary Oak, is not going to sell out, and pre-sell tickets would just be money for nothing - Fri, 6 May 2005 4:07pm | ||
| moron User Info... | Tickets in advance are also a way for fans to commit to a show. Also if you buy advance tickets then the promoter knows that at least x number of people will actually show up which is re-assuring if nothing else. I think that for you average local show, $7 to $8 is reasonable. At Logan's for example, you have to cover the door and PA which was $125 last time I put on a show there (which is cheaper than putting on a hall gig, inflate these prices further if you need to get a space & PA). So then add in some cash for posters / promotion (another $75 - $100 if you get Metropol, or if your time is worth nothing, you can DIY it for less at the risk of getting fined, handbills, etc.) and you are up to around $200 - $225. Assuming you can get in 50 paid people (and that can often be difficult depending on the bands, day and what else is going on), you gross $350 at $7. So a grand total of $125 - $150 to share amongst 3 to 4 bands and the promoter. At $8 it's a little better but still a piddly $50 or so each (which is what I used to get paid 12 years ago for playing at Harpos!). Now if you want someone from Vancouver, they are looking at $100 just to get here and back (if not more, depends what they are bringing). Charging $5 would mean that you would need to have 40 to 45 people just to break even. If it's a casual party gig or open mic kind of thing and you didn't have to do promotion then no big deal but that get's old fast when you are spending hours and hours getting ready for the show, doing promo, etc. I think the most I've ever taken personally for putting on a show is about $30 (enough for pizza and beer), my norm is to lose money just so I can make the event happen. Peeps who complain about ticket prices need to either come clean and admit they don't give a fuck about bands or start being willing to cough up for a decent door price (it's 2005 for fsck's sake). =) And to the person who said SOCAN pays you money, keep in mind that those evil leeches get that money via an extortion scam on the venue. If you submit to SOCAN for money, they will turn around and go after the promoter and / or venue for that money and more. That goes for any of you doing all agers - you as the promoter are supposed to give a kickback to SOCAN to pay for the "song writers". There is no free ride here and SOCAN are the equivalent of RIAA as far as tactics go (sueing sock hops for example). Cheers - Fri, 6 May 2005 5:23pm | ||
| Tambo User Info... | Alright, first off, I wouldn't be interested in prepaid tickets, to be honest, it's another responsibility and I would probably lose the damn thing. Also, if show prices doubled, to be honest, I'd be more picky about which shows I went to. Right now, it's pretty much whatever, there's one band I want to see, so I'll go and pay 5$, if it went up, then I'd probably go to half the shows I do now. It's an interesting question. The only promoters I've talked to are Brian and John, and John's only done a few shows, but has made lots of money off of them because he gets the word out to everyone he knows, and Brian usually has enough money to pay any touring bands. Though, the coming from Vancouver is a huge price they pay. So, they usually should raise the price a dollar or 2 (that can be alot when 100 people come), and pay the touring bands a bit extra. I think that the promoters that do this alot, do it because they love music, and they don't want the scene to die. - Fri, 6 May 2005 6:17pm | ||
| Gman User Info... | Moron: And to the person who said SOCAN pays you money, keep in mind that those evil leeches get that money via an extortion scam on the venue. If you submit to SOCAN for money, they will turn around and go after the promoter and / or venue for that money and more. I believe that the venue/promoter is supposed to keep a couple percent of each ticket sold. Can't remember/look it up right now, but in most cases, it would be a LOT less than the $75 the band (actually, the writer of the music itself,) would get. Regardless, I still think I want to make a grab for Bryan's wallet, you know. - Fri, 6 May 2005 8:23pm | ||
| The One After Two User Info... | there is a great big university in Victoria, but so few business majors. Just charge what you can get away with... pretty basic. If you're starving, charge more or get a new job. If people stop coming... then price it less, or get better at your power chords. You have a product, you are trying to sell it... thats how it works. - Fri, 6 May 2005 10:21pm | ||
| ML7Mike User Info... | I dont actually KNOW, but was under the impression that SOCAN's money comes from the licences that businesses pay to stay open. Even if you hear music piped into an elevator or a restaraunt its paid for via business licencing. - Sat, 7 May 2005 11:19am | ||
| Dru User Info... | Interesting discussion. Up here in Duncan there is a venue that charges $8-$10 at the door with $2 off in advance. Now, if this was for a 3 - 5 band act I wouldn't have a problem, but it is usually for one or two bands that I could see for a far more reasonable price elsewhere or free at a local pub. The venue manager always claims that people pay $8 at the movie theatre so they should just as easily fork over the cash. Well...unfortunately this policy has led to minimal turnout and bands not getting paid a decent portion. And the venue manager struggling to keep the place open. It's a tricky situation. I would go to more events there if they were $5 and I'm sure others feel the same. 60 people at $5 ($300) or 20 people charging $8 ($160). If you were the manager what would you do? Bands never get paid for their time behind the scenes and often it doesn't even cover expenses and yes, this is year 2005: gas, food, everything is up in price. 5 bands for $5 was great back when it was possible. 5 bands for 10 bucks is still a good deal today. As far as advance tickets are concerned, promoters need to make it worthwhile to buy them. Advance tix are great for promoters: it gives them an idea of the interest, and it gives them money up front to pay for initial set up costs. But $2 difference isn't going to make people go out of their way to pick them up. With a huge bill make it a 4 or 5 dollar difference. But that might scare the last minute deciders from going altogether. Tricky stuff. Maybe offer a group rate at the door? I'll go out of my way to buy a $10 ticket than wait and pay $15 at the door. Lot to think about. $2 per band is still a good deal and I will gladly pay that. - Sat, 7 May 2005 3:17pm | ||
| Livevic Scott User Info... | So how about $10 for Belvedere (Calgary) The Resistance (Winnipeg) High Five Drive (winnipeg) Five Days Off (Belgium) Grey Army (local) $10 Big Fernwood, May 13, Be there or I give up putting on all ages shows for good! A buck a band is fine if you have no expences, Sound, staging, hall, posters etc for an AA show will usually run you about 500-600 bux if your not cutting corners at every turn, then to be able to pay the bands 100-200 each which I think basicly covers costs for touring acts and helps local bands pay jamspace rent, van payments, new cords, strings, sticks, skins etc and all the other crap that comes up .. Bascily you need 1200-1500 comming in to be able to make it work where no one is partly paying their own way... thats what I consider a break even. Hall - 200 Sound (pa and soundguy - 150 Stage/lights - 150 Posters/promo - 100 Local x 2 - 200 Out of towner x 2 - 400-500 Total = 1200-1300 And 200-250 for an our of town band dosen't even cover their costs. $100-150 for ferry, $80 for a tank of gas, $50 for food (5 guys standard crew at $10 per diem per day which leaves you eating like a rat) and then there's strings and crap, as well as van costs and everything else that goes wrong when your on tour.... $7 is more then fair for a standard show, if the band is quality up to $10 and then more if they're something real special that you really wanna see... thats my call =) - Sat, 7 May 2005 3:47pm | ||
| Kickback User Info... | Hey DRU you have to keep in mind that the Duncan Garage is a fulltime all ages venue. They have no revenue from alcohol or really food sales for that matter. We play there with an $8 cover and that works out fine for us because we draw. But unfortunately most of the bands that come through the Garage dont have a draw AT ALL in Duncan, so that's where the $20 prices come from. He knows only 5 or so people will be there so he has to make as much as he can to help pay rent. In general the policy of "a buck a band" sucks so corely for the bands themselves. Even at $10 a ticket for an all ages show with 4 bands on the bill the bands wont be by any means gettin rich. Factor in just changin the strings on your guitars/bass for each show and your runnin $50 right there. If the drummer gets some sticks throw another $10 into that. $60 is something around what a band will make at an average all ager these days, but remember that the bands still pay for gas food lodging (if outta towners). It's too bad that people feel they're getting ripped off at $5-6 a head. In all honesty it's the bands that are losing in the end. But since we either love performing or dream of bigger things we stick on with the low door prices. - Sat, 7 May 2005 6:29pm | ||
| SublimeKid User Info... | Have any bands even tried charging more? Make cover 8$ or something at the next show with like 4-5 bands and see how many people turn out....I would rather go see some bands then pay for a large popcorn at Silver City.. PS holy shit Belvedere is playing Big Fernwood? - Sun, 8 May 2005 1:13pm | ||
| Brandon User Info... | FUCK YEAH THEY ARE, and High Five Drive is fucking kick ass too - Sun, 8 May 2005 4:31pm | ||
| Ian johnson User Info... | one time i put on a show when i was younger had 3 local bands charged 7 bucks and had the venue sold out. like there was like 250 kids there for sure probally more looking back i realized maybe 7 bucks a head is kind of weak core and i should have charged less but the fact remains that out of all the live events i put on it did the best, turn out wise and money wise - Sun, 8 May 2005 6:03pm | ||
| ENIGMATICA ENTERTAINMENT User Info... | I don't think $1.00 per band should be a standard to follow for local bands at all. It all depends on expenses and if people really dig the bands they're seeing. If people dig the bands they will be willing to pay more whether the band is playing an all ages setting or not. From past experience it is very difficult for anyone involved in an all ages hall concert to make money even when the cover is $10 and there are less than four bands. Earning zero profit on all ages concerts for bands and production teams limits future projects they can invest in from funds earned from the performance/production. They should be able to earn funds to at least keep providing awesome music for their fans and other potential fans. Concert goers should also think about this when thinking about which cover charges are reasonable for the concerts they're seeing. - Sun, 8 May 2005 8:05pm | ||
| The Wolf User Info... | $5.00 is cheap for an all ages show... Same people whining are the same ones spending $5.00 bucks at Starbucks/Juice Co for a drink but hours of Entertainment, then again "Entertainment" being the Operative word...I want some good lights and sound and a decent venue and a well run event. In Business You can offer any TWO of the following the "BEST SERVICE", "BEST PRICE","BEST PRODUCT" but in the long term you can not offer all THREE and continue in Business.. My time is valuable I would rather have the BEST SERVICE-Event Runs on time,coat check,security,M.C. etc and BEST PRODUCT- Kick Ass Band, Good Venue, Killer Lights and Sound... I am not overly a Bottom Feeder when it comes to entertainment... Other people would rather go cheap spend Five bux and hang out with friends and chat at a cheap gig...nothing wrong with that but it's not for me... Just Some examples of Bands/People doing things right for me in the music scene now are... 1)NUVO WAVO-One kickass show, if you have not caught it you have too these guys deliver every time...With Scott and Vince doing projected images, Set Design,banners,audience interaction etc,costumes,makeup...Could/Should charge more than the $7.00 they are getting at the Central Bar next gig 2)http://www.hybridproductions.net/ I have been to two of their three productions, at the Victoria Event Center...Both had Kickass Sound and Lights with good bands...That VEC rocks too, it's the only all ages venue where I don't feel about a hundred...Like a bar show with out the alcohol... 3)Local Legends Live @ Legends Bar Wednesday Nights ...Currently they are offering the BEST PRICE $2.00 Cover, $3.00 Beer/$3.25 Stella/Guinness Etc...BEST PRICE...Decent Lights,Sound,Stage Setup,Comfy Chairs,Cheap Beer and they could offer a BEST SERVICE to the Fans of Live music by promoting that night but it's a catch-22 where you can't offer all three at the same time for the long term... - Sun, 8 May 2005 9:19pm | ||
| [+} User Info... | well. how about 4 dollars for 4 great bands, a nice big PA, and lighting? oh! and great in between set music, coat check, attractive door staff, and other party quirks. i think for an all ager, this is pretty good value. http://blacktiesocial.blogspot.com/2005/05/crush-hubba-hubbaaa.html#comments (ps. anyone into volunteering some time/a stage? that would really complete the evening: write me! ake.you[at]gmail[dot]com ... - Sun, 8 May 2005 11:03pm | ||
| Livevic Scott User Info... | Yeah! Belvedere is playing Big Fernwood its about the best quality band you'll see at an AA show in this town!! BE THERE, or I quit doing all ages shows! - Mon, 9 May 2005 9:11am | ||
| [+} User Info... | he's serious! - Mon, 9 May 2005 5:09pm | ||
| matteus User Info... |  This is subject is something I have tried to figure out now for the last two months that Hybrid has been around. My first production was $10 at the door/ $8 in adv The bill featured Yum Yum Bang Bang, Cipher, Kincaide and Fine Options. My attendance was roughly 175. $1750 sounds like a lot but break it down: 1100 for venue leaves you with 650 600 for sound leaves you with 50 So you wanna keep going? Promo 200 Staff 100 THEN THERE’S THE BANDS Yet with prices at their highest, this was the largest turn out to date. Then with tix @ 10 again, but no advanced, the turn out was 75. Bill was Nicola Linde, Cipher, Theset and Kickback The last VEC event on the 23rd had a turn out of 125 @ $7 a head Bill was Last to Leave, Cipher, Yclept and Violent Shade of Green. This was a bill that I myself having seen all of them, would have easily paid 10 to see. So where do this leave us guys? Drop the notion of a buck a band. It’s easy. It’s quality not quantity. - Mon, 9 May 2005 11:57pm | ||
| The One After Two User Info... | sorry matteus, you need to find a new gig... it appears you've lost lots of money every show you touch. "WE" the people never invented any rule about cost. The promoters, clubs and bands set the price, we buy. I have been to Legends on a Wednesday and have seen people walk away when they find the $2 buck cover... cover sucks period. $10 for Last to Leave, Cipher, Yclept and Violent Shade of Green is awesome if you know the bands, but at this stage, it is about getting people into the tunes. $10 turns off EVERYONE except the FEW indie music fans in town. At that point, you are hoping they are popular, its not their music bringing the people, its networks. No offence to the bands, many I have seen myself and know the talent, but for the average Victorian on the street, (if they are your target) you need to price to include them. Get them in, sell them on your tunes and have them walk out with a disc, t-shirt and stickers (your profit). While watching they are getting drunk or eating nachos (venue's profit). Promoters should be on salary at clubs or be doing this as a hobby. Holy run on sentance batman.... hope some of this makes sense. - Tue, 10 May 2005 12:28am | ||
| [+} User Info... | our venue just cancelled, unfortunately. the show must go on, so if you have any info on a venue that we can do this at (friends wharehouse, parents hotel basement, whatever!) please give me an email: [email protected] - Wed, 11 May 2005 4:28pm | ||
| Nat User Info... | I don't even see an argument. A buck a band is great for the people attending, but a complete rip off for the guys who work their asses of setting up the show. It's easy for people who attend shows to argue about the price being so high, but im pretty sure if they spent weeks doing promo, setting up lights etc they would pay a hell of a lot more. If you won't pay $10 for a night of good music, you need a new hobby or a higher paying job. - Wed, 11 May 2005 5:17pm | ||
| XY-SATAN User Info... | How aboot a quarter per band member? LOL! - Wed, 11 May 2005 7:22pm | ||
| Robnöxious User Info... | I been involved in music here in Victoria for almost 25 years and it sure ain't about the money (thou some helps). It's that rush you get when people are cheering for "your music" that comes from your heart. Better than any drug. - Fri, 13 May 2005 3:42pm | ||
| [+} User Info... | for a venue: would you rather see a show at a nice room for a little bit extra (say a dollar) or see it in a smaller room (20 less people, like little fernwood) i'm trying to decided at the last minute between which venue i should choose. little fernwood or the gibson auditorium at camosun? - Mon, 16 May 2005 11:50am | ||
| Peter Gardner User Info... | saty at little ferwood, and do the next at Gibson Auditorium. I think if you keep switching venues, it may piss people off and not come. PLus....Camosun is so far away - Mon, 16 May 2005 5:12pm | ||
| moron User Info... | Little Fernwood is not doing many shows these days which is too bad because the Big Fernwood sounds like concentrated ass. The only place with worse sound in this city would have been the Pandora Project. I so wish that venue would get retired in place of a new spot with decent sound (too bad they can't do shows in the smaller room connected to the gym). Cheers - Mon, 16 May 2005 5:34pm | ||
| [+} User Info... | well, i'll find out tommorow about the venue. - Mon, 16 May 2005 7:38pm | ||
| XY-PRODUCTIONS User Info... | ok ..ok..30 cents but that's my final offer. I'll even throw in a case of flat cokes and a bag of mushrooms Punk bands add 5 cents extra . - Mon, 16 May 2005 11:59pm | ||
| XY-PRODUCTIONS User Info... | Sorry about that, Disclaimer. Punk bands SUBTRACT 5 cents . For angst and frivolity. Metal bands WILL pay for their own hairspray and gel though ,but we will supply the hairbrushes (deposable) for all. - Tue, 17 May 2005 12:13am | ||
| Haden User Info... | Hey Kickback, I like the garage as much as the next person, but if you have 4 people come out at $20, that's only $80 and 4 people that will spread the word thinly about the venue. you charge $10 and get 8 people in, that's even better. Personally, it's unrealistic to charge $20 for virtually unknowns in a city. As I said, great venue, but he does set the cover steep for some shows.... - Tue, 17 May 2005 12:35am | ||
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