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WTB Modular synth
| Message Board > Gear Buy & Sell > WTB Modular synth |
| Zedius User Info... |  Hell, even if you've got nothing for sale but you'd be willing to show off your gear to me that'd be a lot more halpful than just looking around on the internet and listening to .wav files. - Wed, 2 Mar 2011 3:33pm | ||
| mactac User Info... |  | ||
| zedius User Info... | Hey, thanks for the reply! If you don't mind answering a couple of questions, how does the Doepfer compare to the MOTM? Which oscillators do you have on the Doepfer, and which do you prefer between the 2 models? That's a nice looking setup man. Is that a MAQ16/3 on the left side? - Fri, 4 Mar 2011 8:33am | ||
| Akh User Info... | I think you'll find there's quite a few modulars on the island, but few people are willing to let them go. I've heard there's a fellow in Victoria with several Polyfusions even, that get very little use... which is a crying shame, because if I had a Polyfusion I'd use it daily! I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way. I've got a few semi-modulars (sorry, no pics as I'm on a break at work), specifically a Roland System 100, Korg MS-10 and Korg MS-20, and I'll be receiving a modular Arp Avatar by the end of the month (with enough modifications by Saint Eric < http://www.sainteric.nl > to make it serious competition for a stock Arp 2600). Actually, for all intents and purposes the Arp Avatar is fully modular, as the additions (which account for the majority of its features now) are not set in the hard-wired path. Depending on what you've got already, there may be value in having your existing gear modified to give it modular functionality. For example, I'm interested in getting the x0xi0 kit for my Adafruit x0xb0x, and the Analogue Solutions modular kit for my Roland MC-202, so that I can use some of their functions with my semi-modular gear. Similar kits may exist for your gear as well. Anyhow, if I had thought about it five years ago (I've got a child on the way so I haven't got the disposable income I once had) I would have probably started with the entry system purchase plan from Synthesizers.com, and upon completing that I would have bought a 44-space cabinet and a crown cabinet, which I would have slowly filled with modules over the following year or so. I would strongly recommend going that route, but if you want something a little less expensive and capable of providing instant use I'd recommend getting a MFB Kraftzwerg ( http://www.mfberlin.de/Produkte/Musikelektronik/MFB-SYNTH_3/MFB-SYNTH3e/mfb-synth3e.html ), followed by a MFB Megazwerg ( http://www.mfberlin.de/Produkte/Musikelektronik/Megazwerg/Megazwerge/megazwerge.html ). You can buy MFB synthesizers directly from the manufacturer for the best price, they integrate well with most modular synthesizes, and they're highly underrated. Doepfer has a distributor in Canada ( http://pages.videotron.com/musicr/ ), and although they always struck me as somewhat small units they certainly have enough variety to satisfy most people. ModCan ( http://www.modcan.com/ ) are a Canadian manufacturer, and both their build and sound quality receive praise from synthesists all over the world, and personally speaking if I had the cash immediately available I would probably buy one of their modulars first. Mactac can probably elaborate on this, but apparently MOTM's oscillators have some of the most rock solid tracking available on any analogue synthesizer. - Fri, 4 Mar 2011 1:39pm Edited: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 2:53pm | ||
| Zedius User Info... | Wow, thanks a lot for all this good info! Have you heard the entry level? I wonder about the synthesizers.com stuff... It seems like it would have a pretty limited sound for 1200, but a nice starting point. I don't think I'd have enough money for the higher level cases though. Probably spring for the travel case at least. My biggest concern with the .com is that I think it has a unique form factor. I'm thinking of going frac rack or euro because of all the modules available. I saw a video of this Macbeth dual oscillator that sounded phenomenal. It's way too pricey, but beautiful. I was almost thinking of buying a really nice oscillator to start and maybe an envelope and a vca, and a rack. Maybe a midi/cv converter so I can get started. I have about 1000us to spend, and I'm going to Cali soon so I was even thinking of popping into analog haven if they have a physical location. Do you guys use midi/cv converters? Is there benefit to using a cv keyboard straight up or is it just 'classier'? That kraftzwerg looks like a great option, as well as the modcan stuff. The modcan stuff sounds phenomenal. I guess I kinda feel like I want to but the best parts I can, even if it takes a really long time to build. Also interested in it for the diy aspects... Do you guys build your own modules at all? Sorry to the mods if this is the wrong forum. I can't think of a better place to pit this. Actually, kinda thinking of building a Facebook page for local synth enthusiasts. If anyone else thinks that's a good idea, or knows of something already, let me know. - Sat, 5 Mar 2011 11:09pm Edited: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 1:31pm | ||
| Akh User Info... | Synthesizers.com's product lineup is heavily based upon the original Moog modular systems, and in fact are compatible with Moog's modules. There's a number of other modules from other manufacturers that are compatible with .com systems, such as those from STG Soundlabs ( http://stgsoundlabs.com/ ), Club of the Knobs ( http://www.cluboftheknobs.com/ ), The Lunar Experience ( http://lunar-experience.com/ ), some of the DIY modules from Bride Chamber ( http://www.bridechamber.com/ ), and a few others. MOTM's product lineup ( http://www.synthtech.com/ ) is compatible with .com modules as well, although they use different power supplies and have different mounting screws for being placed in a cabinet. You'll find the form factor is all over the board from various synthesizer modules, as you can see from the size-comparison chart at http://mesmers.com/weblog_2008_04_21/modular-formats.jpg For CV and Gate control I've got two Kenton Pro-2000 mkII's ( http://www.kentonuk.com/products/items/m-cv/p2000.shtml ). They offer a phenomenal degree of control and additional features, but they are a little pricey. I've got a few synthesizers that have CV/Gate output, but personally I could never imagine buying a keyboard dedicated solely to producing CV and Gate, as it is seems like it would be a waste of space and money to me. I've done some minor repairs and have a great interest in the DIY aspect as well. I know Mactac has done some DIY stuff in the past, although I'm not sure if he still does any of that. If you've got the skills, and the patience, it's definitely a rewarding route to go. I really wish the supposed fellow with Polyfusions in Victoria would chime in on these local discussions... - Mon, 7 Mar 2011 12:31pm | ||
| Akh User Info... |  | ||
| Akh User Info... |  | ||
| Akh User Info... |  | ||
| Zedius User Info... | Edit: I should mention for background that I have about $1000 US in the bank that I've been saving for nothing. This sets my budget. Got some gear envy going on here ha ha. It'd be fantastic to be able to start a collection of vintage gear, but that's a dream that's out of reach for me. I have to be realistic and realize that I can either afford one piece of beautiful vintage gear to which I have no distinct attachment because I have never had the opportunity to play with it, OR I can get into the world of modulars and have a lifelong relationship with all aspects of similar if not the same technology.Here's what I'm looking at so far... I know there are a few other things I should add, but I'm trying to limit it to the most I can get for what I can ACTUALLY afford, and add more stuff later. More importantly, I am trying not to buy cheap modules that I will only want to replace later. The full synthesizers.com option is a bit too expensive to start; that got me looking at the doepfer mini but again, a bit too expensive to start. I really think I like eurorack, so now I've got this amalgamation: 1x Happy ending kit $150 1x Z3000 VCO $245 1xA132-3 Dual lin/exp VCA $140 1xA140 ADSR $95 1xA190 Mid2CV $230 1xA145 LFO $90 1xA119 ext in $99 Thinking about replacing the VCA with a Z2040 filter that is also a VCA. I've still got some thinking to do :p - Thu, 10 Mar 2011 4:02pm Edited: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 4:13pm | ||
| Akh User Info... | The prices you've listed for those Doepfer modules are slightly less than the prices listed on Doepfer's official Canadian distributor's website ( http://pages.videotron.com/musicr/ ), so I would presume you are considering buying your modules from a US distributor. There's nothing wrong with that, and in some instances it would be cheaper to do so, but are you sure it would be in this case? Don't forget about the increased costs of shipping and handling, as well as duty fees. I'd forget about the Z2040 filter for the time being if I were you, as you're going to want a separate VCA module as soon as you get another filter, if not earlier. Unless you've already worked out external filtering and the like you'll attempt with existing gear, the A-119 might not get too much use either, at least while you're starting out. Admittedly I am biased against the gear you've listed because I don't like the small size of the Eurorack stuff, but I suggested the entry-level system from Synthesizers.com ( http://www.synthesizers.com/system-entry1.html ) because it's a little more economical for someone on a tight budget as well. It's a $120 per month, for 12 months, rather than requiring all of the cash up-front. With duty I bet that would work out to about $160 in total, per month. A completed .com entry-level system has considerably more functionality than the modules you've listed, and there's room in the cabinet to expand the system as well. Over a period of time you could get another Q108 VCA module or two, a Q161 module for one of the pre-existing oscillators, a Mankato filter ( http://stgsoundlabs.com/products/mankato_filter_mu.htm ), and perhaps something exotic like a Zeroscillator ( http://www.cyndustries.com/modules_zero-osc.cfm?type=38 ). I suggested afterward you could get a large cabinet to further expand your system, but there's no reason you couldn't get another 22-space wood cabinet (or portable) and start filling that with more modules too. I don't mean to push the .com option too much here. Eurorack works wonders for some people, and if you're one of them that's great. If however you're dismissing the .com entry-level option because it isn't going to be immediately usable, or won't provide immediate satisfaction, I think you should really give this more thought. Personally I've spent a lot of money and time on synthesizers either because of hype, my own personal preconceptions, or because I hadn't really weighted my needs from an instrument against the most bang for my buck. As a result I've sold a lot of music equipment too, usually for less than what I paid. I'd strongly caution against making a purchase because you're anxious to jump in to it, and rather to thoroughly consider your needs and the options that will work well for you in the long-term. Anyhow. Let us know what you end up doing. - Fri, 11 Mar 2011 11:36am Edited: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 11:39am | ||
| mactac User Info... | Here are my thoughts... 1. $1000 isn't a lot of money to put into a modular system, especially if you don't have any analogue gear with CV/Gate to go along with it. I think you should do some thinking about exactly WHY you want a modular & think about whether there are better way s to achieve it. After spending $1000, you're going to want to spend another $1000 immediately. 2. Buy used. It's about 70% the price, and if you can find it in Canada, you'll save duty. Get on the Analogue Heaven mailing list, there are tons of people always selling modular stuff. 3. Related to #1 - if you're getting into modular, you should already have some analogue synths/drum machines. The beaty of modulars is how they interface with everything else - get your drum machine to trigger the filter envelope, control your lfo with some other synth, etc. you will always want an analogue sequencer. A modular isn't a modular without an analogue sequencer! If you're just going to plug it into your computer via a midi->cv and use it like a 'regular synth', you should rethink. There are TONS of standalone synths will all sorts of routing capabilities that might fill your lust. 4. MOTM *definitely* does sound better than Doepfer. Synth.com sounds about the same. I agree with Akh - the larger format is definitely nicer. That being all said, if I had to do it all over again, I'd probably go Doepfer or .com just so I could make my money go farther, and due to the selection of modules. I hate the mini-jacks of the doepfer. 5. As fun as some of the crazy modules sound, forget about the weird ones at first. Get a bunch of oscillators, get some filters,VCA, get *voltage controlled* LFOs & envelope generators. You'll likely need a mult or 2 as well. get a tri-BP filter that's voltage controlled. 6. The nice thing about MOTM and .com is that the racks are not incredibly expensive like Doepfer. Once you have the $500 rack (or whatever it goes for now), the doepfer modules are cheap, but it's painful to buy that rack, and then buy another & another when you want to expand. I build my MOTM case out of wood & it looks great. 7. I built all my MOTM modules, fun as hell. 8. What kind of music do you make> I might be able to give you some more advice based on that. Lots more to say & discuss. I'm up for a phone call if you want. - Sat, 12 Mar 2011 5:30pm | ||
| sealion User Info... |  | ||
| sealion User Info... |  synthesis technology/motm e340 cloud generator $299 - Sun, 13 Mar 2011 10:59pm | ||
| sealion User Info... |  more cable, darn I'm out of cables again.. - Sun, 13 Mar 2011 11:01pm | ||
| Akh User Info... | This from the man who recently scored an Arp Quadra, which really can't sound like anything BUT an old string synthesizer from the 70's :P Seriously though, Sealion does raise a good point. I got my MS-10 and MS-20 for great prices, but I *definitely* paid more than I should have for the System 100, and if I hadn't sent my Arp to Eric before we came to expect a child I would have definitely sold it. What's done is done, so I'm going to get the most out of what I've got, but there's some really great new synthesizers being made. Maybe you should take a second look at the synthesizers MFB offers, as they're in your price range, offer a lot of bang for the buck, and can be used pretty much out of the box. - Mon, 14 Mar 2011 10:19am Edited: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 2:01pm | ||
| Zedius User Info... | Mactac: 1. I agree $1000 isn't a lot to spend, but that's what I've got. I'm not in a huge rush to spend it, but it'd be nice to get started. I definitely don't want to start loading my credit with Modular synth gear. I want a modular synth because of the project, because I love synthesizers and sound, because of the versatility. I love programming sounds and finding stuff that just blow my mind, just because of the sound. I've got a JX-8P which is lots of fun, but quite limited. I've got a Gakken SX-150 which I've shoved audio through, and that sorta got me excited about the concept of audio as control signals. 2. Thanks for the tip with the Analogue Haven mailing list. I'll check it out. 3. Is an analogue sequencer that different than a midi sequencer? I've got a fantom x6 that I can use as a sequencer, or a computer, or an ipad, and various drum machines. All my drum machines are digital, but because of CV their audio signals should still be able to trigger filters etc. like a gate, right? Does it matter if the outboard gear is analogue somehow? Bah I am at work. To be continued. - Tue, 15 Mar 2011 10:27am | ||
| Zedius User Info... | Ok, lunch break. 5. Point well received. I was thinking of just using a patch bay as a makeshift mult to get started, but mults aren't expensive. I should probably get one outright. 6. I think the happy ending kit is a nice cheap alternative to a doepfer rack. Is there any benefit to a doepfer rack compared to cheaper eurorack alternatives? 7. I am also thinking of making my mults, or finding a kit option. Should be easy and I have lots of parts, just no pcb or faceplate. Also think it would be cool to design a midi to cv that incorporated aftertouch. 8. I make all kinds of music. The underlying premise is usually inspired by things like skinny puppy, front 242, and other gritty old industrial guys. Also boards of Canada, slagsmalsklubben, and this wc olo garb guy who does synth demos on YouTube under the name Jexus. I haven't recorded anything substantial, but I love to play with sound. If you're still up for a phone call shoot me your number! Sealion: seriously? That rack looks amazing! Ill check out the video you mentioned. AKH: the kraftzwerg looks like a great potential option, but i think it's not very expandable? If I knew I could pick it up and rack it into something later, I might have to consider it because it sure looks like a good deal, but I want to be able to expand and build off of something in an organized fashion. - Tue, 15 Mar 2011 12:43pm | ||
| Akh User Info... | Skinny Puppy and Boards of Canada immediately come to mind as being known for their unique methods for treating recordings, and applying effects in unique and creative manners... I'd be surprised if either group used a modular system on any of their released work, or have ever used one at all. With the exception of the Prophet 5’s Skinny Puppy used, they relied heavily on lo-fi samplers and relatively basic synthesizers, which they would use unconventionally or heavily process with effects and mastering techniques. Boards of Canada is a little more secretive about their equipment, but they *seem* to use simple monosynths, like the Roland SH-101, and heavily process them with analogue tape and various effects. I'm not overly familiar with Front 242, aside from the fact they're well-known for their involvement in the (computer) demoscene and embracing a lot of digital technologies before anyone else really had. Are you certain a modular is what your music needs right now? I’m not suggesting you couldn’t use a little more gear, but I’m not sure a modular synthesizer is specifically going to be helpful to you. I’m also not suggesting you should attempt to sound like Skinny Puppy, Boards of Canada or Front 242, but rather you should consider what positive qualities in their music has you would like to incorporate in to your own work and how that can be achieved. Perhaps you should be exploring how you can use your existing gear differently and experimenting with your recording and mastering techniques, rather than attempting to throw a modular at the problem. Also, Sealion *IS* joking about the rack. That’s about $30K worth of Serge gear, and I’d be surprised if there was even half of that much Serge gear anywhere on the island. Additionally, in terms of functionality, the semi-modular gear from MFB is just as expandable as any of the Doepfer or .com gear, it just comes in a self-contained unit. - Tue, 15 Mar 2011 3:16pm Edited: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 3:20pm | ||
| badger User Info... | I have to say that this is turning out to be an interesting thread. Thoughtful comments all round, even from sealion - who I've sold stuff to and occasionally emailed back and forth. I've talked with him about the idea of a small scale synth meet here in Victoria in the past and feel like it might be worth putting the idea out on this thread to see what people think. Low key, casual, analogue and digital show and tell style event. The details to be worked out by anyone interested in participating. The closest thing I have to analogue gear is a PAIA theremax that has been under construction for a while now and a Gristliser kit that is next in line to be built. Anyone interested in doing something like this later in the year? - Tue, 15 Mar 2011 5:04pm | ||
| Zedius User Info... | Akh: One of the things that got me looking towards modulars is the fact that a variety of simple classic monosynths is so incredibly unattainable. Everything is a collector's item. Not trying to throw a modular at a problem, just interested in modulars and realised I had some money I forgot about. I'm still having lots of fun with the gear I have, and it is a valid point that there are other things I should focus on. Mastering, recording etc. and song structuring. I have basically zero output. I just love learning and playing. Badger: Ha ha ha gristliser. I took a quick look at that. Such a cool concept. I'd be into a small scale synth meet. I'd like to know who does what and with what in Victoria. Up until fairly recently I was under the impression that I was the only person in this town who was interested in synthesizers. It's a very bass guitar drums sorta environment. - Wed, 16 Mar 2011 10:28am | ||
| Zedius User Info... | Oh, also, how do you feel about PAIA? They have an entry 9700s for like $570 and I think it would be lots of fun to build, and a good Fracrac entry if I wanted to move into MOTM territory. I've heard they are flimsy though, and I haven't looked up demos yet. Flimsy's not usually a huge turnoff for me, though. If the price is right I will just be careful. There is some talk about the hideous resonance of the filters and what not, but I think there are mods for this. - Wed, 16 Mar 2011 12:39pm Edited: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 12:40pm | ||
| badger User Info... | Paia doesn't have a lot of demos on the site for their synths. I bought the theremin kit based on the features / price comparison with others out there. Wanted to have the CV capabilities and there are a lot of documented mods for it. I know their older synths have a following but I don't know much about them beyond that. - Wed, 16 Mar 2011 3:26pm | ||
| Akh User Info... | Here's a demo showcasing the Paia 9700: http://soundcloud.com/ddecay/p9700 - Fri, 18 Mar 2011 7:53am | ||
| sealion User Info... |  The dark energy that's for sale locally is alright.II have an oberheim SEM so I'm luckwarm about gotta have it, but its got great push in the reviews. its semi-modular and the price is okay-ish. Doepfer started as an Oberheim synth wrecker, making circuits out of the chips from 8 voicers. sigh. Re the comment on sequencers I love the old 2x8 Obie minsequencer. Analog gets snappy on a Minimoog with those way shorter than any enevoples Roland ever put out. Decades ago a friend on the Gulf Islands ran 3xMS-20xSQ10 sequencers, insane. The thing is the analog clock rates go into the audio at a flip of the dial and so they can be "played" live quite fluidly. Digital does program the heck around them and has memory. So it has strengths too. George like his KLEE modular but digital cv but then he built a keyboard controller from scratch! You can get Dan's vst of a klee in software if you want to try it in software. google it. Re cv/midi. I like the old Roland MPU-101 which can drive 4 analog single voice machines off MIDI and has some tricks, and a tune feature. Anything kenton/rees is good. Or I take one voice off the X0Xb0x/brian castro io which is a real swiss army knife for timing, ties together Din sync/midi/and cv/gate all at once, and has memory. Or you can go old school: jp-4 din'd off an 808/mc202 etc, no midi no computer, no clock drift or latency, since its all equally off. Seriously Robert Rich's rig blew me away, its so far ahead of the industry its insane and very reasonable, small and many many pitches. The interview is on John Rice's youtube channel. $1,000 wont cover it but it will get you well into it for less than (here comes heresy)... a Linn Drum Tempest (which everyone and both of their dogs) will buy and flood the airwaves with... sample library opportunity mactac! It should be $1200 not $2000. When I was insane I plunked down for an op-1 so we will see what the opposite of modular might be in the hands of teenage engineers. It ships very soon as they finish the code on a usb delay thingy a protype user caught. Any octatrackers out there? Curious. By the way that is mactac's rig, seen it. And that's just 19". Nice 808 (inside joke). Re PAIA, okay, build one of John's kits, yes, but don't don't put your limited budget down on a very high priced used kit badly made by who knows who. Me i'd run from a 4700 unless it was cheap enough for my time and parts to work on, rather get that guys dark star over one and maybe an mfb sequencer, dunno. Now computer-controlled is quite happy with a single rack of modules to process his beats and keys. Great techno guy and knows his 303s. He likes Harvestman modules (seattle) for the crazy edge. here's a great $120 kit from france I built, its deep google mutable instruments - Thu, 24 Mar 2011 9:58pm Edited: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 9:58pm | ||
| zedius User Info... | Curious what that OP-1 will be useful for? It's a beautiful machine, but what's new? This mutable instruments thing is very fascinating, and may be something I look into as my budget has just imploded. I got a semi-lateral promotion at work that is going to cut my OT income so I have to be careful with my money now. The case for your Shruti-1 is absolutely stunning, but I'm sure I don't need to tell you that. - Wed, 30 Mar 2011 3:25pm Edited: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 3:26pm | ||
| sealion User Info... |  Killer cheap synths with lots happening. Poor man's monophonic Blofeld. - Wed, 30 Mar 2011 9:03pm | ||
| zedius User Info... | Forgot to mention I do have a Monotron. Adorable little thing. The internet's all abuzz about the new Monotribe that's going to be anounced tomorrow at Musikmesse. If it's priced as well as the Monotron, I'm curious. Still want to see if there is interest in a facebook page or something. I got my JX-8P off of a fellow who bought it off of Ebay. I know there are already 2 others sitting in shops in town. It seems silly to have to pay shipping on Ebay when there may be people sitting on the same gear locally just because they never found a use for it. So there is that, and there is the fact that this is a very guitar/bass/drums oriented town. I went through my whole youth thinking that nobody was into this stuff. I thought the only 3 things people cared about in this town were hardcore punk music, death metal, and turntables. I don't want to make a big effort or have anything really active, but it'd be nice to know who else is out there. Lemme know if that makes sense to any of you. I may just make one and post the link, but I'd like to know if there is interest. - Tue, 5 Apr 2011 3:22pm | ||
| lonemonk User Info... | The only thing I can add to this particular conversation is that mactac and sealion are not only two of the most knowledgeable synth people in the field, but also two of my favourite people in general. . . - Thu, 14 Apr 2011 9:45pm Edited: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 9:47pm | ||
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