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too much tasering
| Message Board > Controversy and Quarantine > too much tasering |
| speedymarie User Info... | TASER USE BY POLICE OFFICERS: i truly believe that tasers were intended to substitute lethal force. i think that they were to be used in situations where guns would normally be used, to create bystander safety and to not have to maim or kill in order to protect self. officers did not subdue 'rowdy' suspects by pistol whipping or shooting them(okay okay, legally and frequently)before tasers....the are being abused and over-used by police who don't want to do their job, officers should use restraining tactics that they learned in training and not depend on the weapon. sometimes people suffering medical emergencies appear psycho, jolting them, not good...lazy cops. - Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:59pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | They should only be used to jolt ol' DAJ awake and get him to move along to the next taxpayer's tree. - Tue, 23 Oct 2007 1:35pm | ||
| tom User Info... | If his poop don't splatter when they jolt him, it should be safe - Tue, 23 Oct 2007 1:55pm | ||
| speedymarie User Info... | sorry i forgot to add that part: tasers to be used only in situations where a gun would normally be drawn, and to encourage hypocritical poop in public people to move along! - Tue, 23 Oct 2007 8:18pm | ||
| J User Info... | "the are being abused and over-used by police who don't want to do their job, officers should use restraining tactics that they learned in training and not depend on the weapon." In a world where 1 touch from an infected diseased junkie can almost end your life; if i was a cop, I wouldn't be taking any chances. Sure back 25 years ago; cops could get away with a little shit kickin' and a lesson was learned(by the criminal hopfully). Now, with all the law-suits/restrictions/policy theres nothing left. Public saftey is first and formost; and if some mentally ill person wigs out because they forgot their meds, there's not much to be done if a cop see them putting public saftey at risk. You might think law enforcement is a joke; but with out it you'd be begging the police come back with force. So before we all go judging what cops should and shouldn't be doing; why dont you put yourself in the shoes of a law enforcement officer and see what you'd do in a situation that they handle everyday. Theres no time for negotiating, especially someone thats clearly NOT willing to negotiate; mentally ill or not. - Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:44pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... |  | ||
| speedymarie User Info... | VANCOUVER (CBC) - A Coquitlam, B.C., man says he is the latest victim of a Taser gun, the controversial electro-shock weapon that police can use to subdue people they are trying to arrest. ADVERTISEMENT Colin Hawkins said he was picking up his 17-year-old son from a rowdy neighbourhood party Friday night when an RCMP officer used a Taser on him after he had been wrestled to the ground. Three days later, the wound on Hawkins' leg has started to heal, but he is still in shock. In an interview with CBC, Hawkins said Coquitlam RCMP used a Taser on him after he yelled at police who were arresting his son. He and his wife and daughter were returning from a hockey game at the time of the alleged incident. Hawkins said he got out of the car and started screaming at police. After being handcuffed and tossed to the ground, Hawkins said he was told that police would use a Taser if he didn't "stay." "Within seconds of that, I was Tasered,'' he said Hawkins said that while he was being dragged down the street, he tried to explain that he was trying to pick up his son from the party. "Tasering someone when they're down in handcuffs is wrong,'' said Hawkins' wife, Tira, who also spoke to CBC. Hawkins said he was taken to the police station but released without being charged. He said he plans to file a complaint about the incident, which comes only one week after two Taser deaths in Canada. A Polish man in his 40s died at Vancouver International Airport when RCMP jolted him with a Taser last week, and a 38-year-old Quebec man died last Wednesday after police Tasered him during an interrogation at a police station. A spokesperson for Coquitlam RCMP declined to comment late Monday. She said police are reviewing the file. J, i do not think law enforcement is a joke by any means. when i was much younger cops were a the face to a nasty system and a good place to direct my anger and rebellion. i happen to know police officers, and the fact that they are understaffed and are facing a lot of problems that are piling up in this town, makes their job more difficult. i just think that tasers are over-used, from what i have read, heard first-hand stories of, and from my understanding of the medical implications of being taseered.(i have only done basic research on the;however, i do think they were somewhat reliable sources) - Wed, 24 Oct 2007 2:17pm | ||
| inhalien User Info... |  | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Gotta love one sided stories. I'm sure the gent was a total angel, that's why he was taken down and cuffed and told not to move. Since the moron already admitted to screaming at police, because his angel of a son was being arrested, I'm sure there's a lot more to the story than he's telling the media. It's obvious the apple didn't fall far from the tree in that family. - Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:41pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | we only get to hear 1 side of this story though... so how can it an accurate judgement of use? Why not let the police share the report and then see if the stories match.... probly not! At any rate, the more we take away from the police the worse off the public will be. - Thu, 25 Oct 2007 9:56am | ||
| speedymarie User Info... | frankly, i am all about more police in town right now. i am soooo sick of junkies lining the streets, my children seeing people shooting up and worrying about playing in the leaves for fear of poop and needles. a cop on every corner for 6 months might slow the rate of open drug dealing and people rifling through bags of very obviously stolen goods. and i again, i will agree with your point of the story being one sided. once you have a guy in cuffs, throw em in the wagon if they are being rowdy, getting tasered is like being slammed by a truck(well a small truck maybe) we don't allow cops to kick and beat cuffed suspects. - Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:36am | ||
| Chopper User Info... | And how do we know that this wonderful father didn't pull something that deserved a good tasering? There are a lot of idiots that continue to fight police even when they're cuffed. He deserved what he got, regardless of the spin the media and the supposed victim put on it to make it more newsworthy. - Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:21pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | i have to side with chopper on this one, at least as the story goes. "we don't allow cops to kick and beat cuffed suspects" your right, but if those suspects refuse arrest and put the public in harms way; id rather he/she be tased than shot. Regardless of what it does to your body; theres a reason it happened. The media(as everyone knows) over-glorifies the victims point of view; making the law enforcement look like "the bad guys". Could it be that people are just being alot more resistant to police because we're taking away more and more from the police; so people instantly see that and lose respect? I heavily agree with your points about cops, marie, but Id have to say that Id rather someone gets tased than shot. And thru my experiences with police(never been to jail or the drunk tank mind you) I've observed them being put into hells kitchen at some of the parties they've had to break up. When you have 200 people crammed in a little student house; and only 3 cops show up... those cops are obveously going to be a little complacent about the party goers demands and level of respect for a)others around them and b)the neighbourhood/public. But never have I seen them use force un-neccisarily against someone. I've seen people who felt they were wrongly cuffed; that TRY to resist the arrest and they get whats coming. If resist; the measures get taken to the next level! Its gunna be a hard battle to try and sway people towards police not being able to use the means they have to control situations that call for proper force. And your kids and you should never have to worry about junkies and needles; but its a reality and its a shitty one. I remember the good ol' days when I could walk barefoot in parks around here; now those days are gone due to the level of respect these people have for our public spaces.(*cough*daj*cough*) - Thu, 25 Oct 2007 2:57pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Rush's Alex Lifeson Recounts Graphic Details Of Police Altercation Friday June 10, 2005 @ 11:00 AM By: ChartAttack.com Staff Alex Lifeson Rush guitarist Alex Lifeson has issued a press release detailing his account of the events that transpired during his family's much publicized New Year's 2004 fiasco. While celebrating New Year's at Florida's Ritz-Carleton hotel, an altercation broke out between Lifeson, his son Justin and various Collier County Sheriff's Deputies. The melee was sparked following Justin's decision to go on stage at a show being held there with some buddies when the house band took a break. Ultimately, the Rush guitarist and his son, accepted a plea bargain agreement for allegedly pushing a female deputy down a flight of stairs and spitting in another deputy's face. The bargain entailed that the pair would plead guilty to a single misdemeanor charge of resisting arrest without violence. Lifeson and son were then served with 12 months probation, and forced to incur the court costs. Since then, Lifeson, his son Justin and daughter-in-law Michelle filed a lawsuit against the Ritz-Carleton hotel, the security director and three sheriff's deputies for the allegedly unjustified and excessive force used against Lifeson and his son. They are said to be seeking an undisclosed amount of compensation for injuries, pain and suffering, mental anguish and legal defence costs. Here is Alex Lifeson's entire account of the events that night: "In like a lion, out like a lamb. These words appeared in a Naples Daily News editorial on April 27, describing the outcome of the criminal charges against my family and myself. After fifteen months of living in fear and anxiety, and the enormous physical and emotional toll that it took from all of us, the prosecution's case began to crumble as the truth emerged and witnesses came forward to expose the behavior of these Collier County Sheriff's Deputies and certain employees of the Ritz Carlton, a resort hotel reputed to be one of the finest in the world. "As that part of this ordeal came to a close, I thought to myself that more than anything, I wanted to get my life back on track. I thought I could accept the fact that I was punched in the face so hard it ripped the cartilage from my nose, fracturing the bone and shattering my septum. I thought I could accept the incredibly painful nasal surgery and weeks of recovery, and the discomfort I feel every night when I go to sleep. I thought I could accept the fact that I was Tasered six times, twice while lying face down in a growing pool of my own blood, and so severely that it burned bloody holes in my back. I thought I could accept watching my son get electrocuted numerous times as well, and erase the memory of his screams of pain and terror. I thought I could accept being imprisoned for two days without a phone call for over fourteen hours. I thought I could accept the innuendo of those who don't know me and believed I was just some spoiled, drunken rock star. I thought I could accept watching my daughter-in-law, through a crack in the prison door, as tears streamed down her face because she was unlawfully jailed and separated from her two months old son. I thought I could accept the deep depression my wife, the woman I love without measure and who shares my soul, struggled through for months, fearing for her husband and son... what was I thinking? "Out like a lamb. All of that for nothing. All because of the bitterness of a few Ritz Carlton hotel employees on the most festive night of the year and their incredibly discourteous, arrogant and aggressive behavior of which I had never experienced in thirty years of travel. All because of three confrontational, intimidating, enraged deputies who wouldn't even consider dialogue, who were so quick to reach for their Tasers and handcuffs when no crime was committed. All because of a prosecutors' office blind to the reality of instances of excessive force by police and the horrendous destruction of innocent lives forever changed... what were they thinking? "In like a lion. The legal action we are embarking on now will hopefully bring attention to the fact that people cannot and should not be treated this way. I was fortunate to have the resources and will to fight to the end, but there are many who don't and they will forever suffer from the forced compromise of an unfair plea bargain or the threat of sentencing guidelines that demand imprisonment, that hang over one's head like the sword of Damocles. If some good is to come of this, then let it be that the actions of a tiny minority of aggressive, Taser wielding police officers don't tarnish the reputation of the vast majority of officers who proudly serve their communities with honour and sacrifice. I sincerely believe they deserve our utmost respect, but respect is something that must be earned and not demanded with a closed fist or an electrifying weapon... that's what I'm thinking." In other news Alex Lifeson sat down to share his perspective on the notorious incident with MuchMoreMusic's Bill Welychka. "People don't know the truth," Lifeson told Welychka during the interview. "That's going to come out very soon. The case for the prosecutor started to crumble before our eyes and we realized they were applying a pressure on us that didn't really exist... It still hurts to read my name connected with 'Spoiled, Rich, Drunk Rock Star Throwing Cops Down Stairs.' That didn't happen." The complete Alex Lifeson interview will be broadcast on Much More Music, Saturday June, 11 at 1 p.m. ET. —Justin Krever - Thu, 25 Oct 2007 3:39pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Then they lose any future case they intend to pursue. They pleaded guilty, whether it was a plea bargain or not. Why mot use the resources to actually defend oneself rather than accept a plea bargain? Why, because they were guilty. Plain and simple. I could care less if it was Alex Lifeson, or joe blow working class grunt. a: It's New Years, not drunk? BS. b: When large amounts of alcohol are consumed, details get hazy. c: They pleaded guilty to pushing a cop down some stairs. If that doesn't say that other officers could've dealt with the same issue, I don't know what does. He and his son both got what they deserved. Although I do love RUSH, that doesn't make Mr. Lifeson, or his progeny, above the law. - Thu, 25 Oct 2007 4:37pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... |  | ||
| speedymarie User Info... | ME-OW! i posted that article just as an example of what bothers me about it. i guess what i am trying to say, is that if there were no tasers, what would the police have done in that situation? i think that there is a time and a place for tasers, or rubber bullets and non lethal force, and unfortunately a time for guns. there are great cops, and not-so-great ones, and a lot of crazy people. i don't think that everytime a cop tasers someone they are an abusive prick, i just think that they are a bit too readily available for use, and are dangerous. trust me, i don't even want to look up close at some of the scabby absessed junkies here, it grosses me out a bit that i may be touching a door handle or sitting in a seat where someone who may have been picking their face just touched....ew, i am so gagging just thinking about it! and i understand cops not wanting to get near crazy, highly likely infected people, in violent situations. i just think that there is a large percentage of taser use that is unnecessary and excessive, and it is a dangerous thing...people fall down and hurt themselves on a minor level, and like that guy in the airport, if it was the taser that killed him, they die. maybe i am wrong, it is just my feeling and observation... - Thu, 25 Oct 2007 5:07pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | was an intresting article on Lifeson... but i dont believe a word of either side; cause I wasn't there. To a)witness someone pushing someone else down stairs(which is LETHAL) b)witness the force used to detain the fairly large Lifeson. But I can probly tell ya what cops would've done if there weren't tasers. And im almost positive you'd rather the taser than alternative actions. In terms of the airport situation... you should know that nothing is taken lightly at airports; its a zone of ZERO TOLERANCE. And like I said preveously that its a different world around us than it was 15, 20 or more years ago; hell even 5 years. And just because a taser is readily availible(as is their guns) doesn't mean that every cop uses it un-justly. And those who have, usually get repremanded; if said victim feels to be in the right and follows through with complaints and other avenues of legal action. Otherwise, TAZE AWAY! j/k. but in all seriousness... i love that youtube video "dont tase me bro" to mc hammers' "you cant touch this"... its gold. Tell me honestly after seeing that video that tasers aren't rightfully justified... lol. (its an intresting discussion and almost refreshing from the usual babble about public spaces and what not. I hope you dont think im some sort of republican asshole looking out for my best intrests, cuz im not lol. I just call it as I see it) - Thu, 25 Oct 2007 5:18pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | """""And im almost positive you'd rather the taser than alternative actions""""" tasers kill. - Thu, 25 Oct 2007 7:02pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Occasionally they kill. Guns on the other hand... - Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:20pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | guns kill, so do tac. batons, so does just about everything a police officer carries. Everything they carry can POTENTIALLY harm someone lethally. What Im getting at is that not every cop mis-uses the taze. Would you rather them use nightsticks? Im quite sure those can kill too. Im sure you'd rather them use hand to hand combat; but in the real world with criminals using any means(ie, guns, knives, bats etc...), they have to be well equipped. I, for one, would rather someone be hit with a taze than beat with a nightstick. At least its over when they get shocked(ps, not everyone that gets hit with the tazer dies). Im not really into looking but i wonder how many more deaths, by police hands, have happend with tazers compared to nightsticks/tac. batons. Or a response study; gauging the reaction to a tazer vs. a nightstick in a criminals mind. - Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:30pm | ||
| 1986 User Info... | cops should have to carry a camera in their badge that records their entire shift the footage should be available to the public... ...police are here to serve us so why not!! - Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:37pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Pretty interesting article on taser vs guns in the hands of the police forces. It is the NY times, so you have to read between the lines a bit. Like anything produced by the mass media. The article doesn't seem as sensationalist as some other articles. There are some very good pro and con points though. it's even made me rethink my position on tasering. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990DE1DC1F3FF934A35750C0A9629C8B63 - Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:58pm Edited: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:59pm | ||
| BBJones User Info... | You referring to things like this? "...the Taser could be used to torture suspects and prison inmates to extract confessions or taunt them..." Are you kidding me? I'm on the cops side on this one. If you live a life of crime then prepare to get fucked. It's about time. - Fri, 26 Oct 2007 8:25am | ||
| speedymarie User Info... | good mornink people... i just want to reiterate, i do not think that EVERY cop over uses the taser, and i have watched some of the videos of people playing with tasers and they are funny, i have 'played' (hehe), with modified electric fly swatters myself... i also think that in some cases a cop who would not 'unjustly' use their stick to dole out some justice, may grab the taser, because they equate it to non-violent subdueig tactic. electricuting someone is excrutiating and violent in my opinion. i feel that it is a last resort sort of tactic, a cop cannot pull out a gun on an unarmed-cuffed suspect and say 'stop yelling, squirming....or i will shoot you'. the taser was introduced as an alternative to guns and a non-lethal tactic to stop uncontrollabe (by traditional methods) suspects...it is often used properly, but even if 1 in 10 times it is exploited, that is 10 out of a hundred people i don't know off hand the percentage of people who have pace makers, or metal screws and plates intheir bodies, but it can be very dangerous... perhaps just as an inquest/report(maybe wrong term) is required when an officer discharges a firearm, perhaps something similar in the case of taser use, and refresher course on physical takedowns annually, and strict conditions surrounding when and where they can be used...i am not only referring to the article i posted, but tasering a cuffed suspect seems very wrong, unless an extreme case where someones's safety is truly at risk - Fri, 26 Oct 2007 8:43am Edited: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 8:44am | ||
| BBJones User Info... | Head shake alert: "...it is often used properly, but even if 1 in 10 times it is exploited, that is 10 out of a hundred people" 10 out of a hundred criminal dirt bags get abused? Boo freaking hoo. I'm all for proper training and accountability, but could really care less if some lowlife scumbag gets zapped for no reason. I'm all for putting some fear into the criminals if that's even possible in this bleeding heart country of ours. - Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:16am | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Don't get my comment wrong. Rethinking ones position doesn't mean they've done a 180. I still believe a taser to be less dangerous than a gun, but I can see how certain law enforcement agencies could abuse it. Look at the deep south? That's a prime place in the states for misuse. I've got a few friends in MS, that have told me some pretty messed up stories about what goes on down there. Racism is still alive and well down there, and regardless of whether you're a part of the criminal lifestyle, you're treated as one if your hispanic or black or asian. - Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:55am | ||
| tom User Info... | bang on. In Mississippi racism is indeed very prevalent. Heard from folks about some strange shit going on in Meridian and Toomsuba that had me shaking my head. - Fri, 26 Oct 2007 2:18pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | One of my friends in MS just happens to be a Hispanic ex-cop who now has MS. He tried to go into a clinic, and they outright refused him, regardless of the fact that he had very good private insurance and not medicare. Their son's been stopped (he's 12) and searched for weapons, even though he's a straight a student involved in sports, because he looks more like his dad than his white mom. - Fri, 26 Oct 2007 2:37pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | "i feel that it is a last resort sort of tactic, a cop cannot pull out a gun on an unarmed-cuffed suspect and say 'stop yelling, squirming....or i will shoot you'." Your right, it is a last resort; and a cop should never HAVE to taze anyone. But if that person resists getting the 'cuffs; would you rather him be beaten or shocked? regardless of human rights(in my opinion you throw that out as soon as you lead a criminal lifestyle). BB, its not that some of us think that tasers could be used in interrogations or extracting information; you seemed to have lost the point of the arguement(though i 100% side with you on the arguement). Its that SOME cops abuse their privilage/right to protect the public by using these tasers on people that would otherwise not resist arrest. That I can agree, is a dangerous tactic; to be using the taser un-relentlessly. As for the deep south; we shouldn't be basing arguements on the worlds most naive and ignorant people EVARRRRR. But looking at law enforcement as a whole. (stop focusing on the small picture people!!)(and yeah its too bad that racism is alive and accepted down there; but again, it comes to the fact that these people are amoung the worlds most ignorant and naive, if not the MOST) chopper: thats a good article "''In the past, an officer would have to fight,'' Officer Miller said. ''Now we have an option to stop that before it gets to that point, greatly reducing the risk to the officer and the suspect.'" /that's exactly what im getting at, is this guys P.O.V. - Fri, 26 Oct 2007 2:57pm Edited: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 2:58pm | ||
| Sati User Info... | its late and I'm in no condition to read through the entirety of this thread, but I wanted to add that in the footage I saw of a good ol' fashioned tasering, the cop had his gun extended (and seemingly repeatedly firing) for a lengthier period of time than necessary, given that tasers have a rep of incapacitating people pretty instantly. I might be talking out my butt there, but thats what I've gathered. - Sat, 27 Oct 2007 4:01am | ||
| Doc User Info... | You make a good point BB. Make sure you remember it when some power tripping cop decides you look like a criminal and then decides to taze your ass because it would be too much work for him to try and subdue you through regular means. Bet you wouldn't feel the same way then would you? ~My God is bigger than your God Doc - Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:54pm | ||
| J User Info... | would you rather that cop beat the person with a nightstick or shoot them with a bullet? And what's more is the fact that nobody seems to take in to account the saftey of the police officer themselves. Read the article that chopper linked up; its a good read, though I still advocate the use of the taser, especially over the use of guns, knives, nightsticks/tac.-batons etc... And like I said before, you throw out human rights when you become a criminal; even if your innocent till proven guilty! - Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:58pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | WRONG! - Sat, 27 Oct 2007 3:29pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... |  | ||
| J User Info... | would you care to elaborate why im "wrong"? and should you do that; I still advocate the use of tasers... your opinion will not change my mind; and also isn't wrong so much as naive :) - Sat, 27 Oct 2007 8:09pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | I believe it is "wrong" to throw out any human rights. Breaking the law doesn't give authorities the right to assault you. - Sat, 27 Oct 2007 8:36pm | ||
| J User Info... | and that's YOUR opinion; and I would never tell you your opinion(despite my point of views) is "wrong". But if you feel that strongly towards criminal rights; bleed your heart to someone that cares :) - Sun, 28 Oct 2007 9:41pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | """"you throw out human rights when you become a criminal"""" ....that is your opinion, and it IS wrong. Cops aren't Judge Dredd, not yet anyway. - Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:37pm | ||
| bbjones User Info... | Pretty simple. You act like a criminal, you get treated like one. You beak off to a cop, you get taken down. Pretty simple. Some of you people have had it too easy for too long. - Mon, 29 Oct 2007 9:27am | ||
| J User Info... | why is my opinion wrong? Criminals deserve nothing more than the treatment they get. I have no feeling or compassion for those who steal, kill, assault, or commit any other or lead any sort of life associated with being a criminal. And besides; if your really a criminal, I cant see much of a criminal caring for human rights and actually coming out ahead. Before you go on about how my opinion is wrong; bleed it to someone who cares/sympathizes for criminals. - Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:25pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | What about people that smoke pot, or blockade logging roads. How about homosexual men or voyuers in states where sodomy is against the law. Should they lose their human/civil rights. Not all laws are just. You stand on a slippery slope when you talk about denying human rights to anyone or any group of people. - Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:17am | ||
| inhalien User Info... |  | ||
| TBone User Info... | "Not all laws are just. You stand on a slippery slope when you talk about denying human rights to anyone or any group of people." Perhaps not all laws are just, but that doesn't mean that they don't have to be obeyed. When our democratically elected representatives have agreed to come down on one side of an issue or another then it is our duty as citizens to live within the rules of our nation. Thats called the rule of law...It isn't nullified by your naive political views or anti-authoritarian sentiment. Don't like it the laws they exist? petition to have the laws changed. At the end of the day, no one person has the right or the wisdom to decide for him/herself what is just. If you choose live outside the law, expect penalties. And to be clear, no one loses their rights for breaking the law, you lose your rights when you are convicted for breaking the law or the instant you resist or threaten law enforcement. If you dislike the way in which you are afforded protection by the police and/or our elected government, you are welcome to cast you ballot in opposition, or better yet, take the door labeled "exit" - Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:44am | ||
| Jl User Info... | its only a slippery slope if theres no such thing as reasoning. Obveously if the "pot-head" was being "arrested" unless said "pothead" has something to hide, why resist if you were plainly caught? If I were arrested for smoking pot(heaven forbid) you certainly wouldn't catch me fighting with the police. And for those who do; resist and make a situation that wasn't so bad WORSE for the public, then there's measures to be used so the public's saftey can be restored. I assure you I have no connection or affilation with the police in any way shape or form; Im just an average tax paying citizen not looking to take away MORE from the law enforcement that we already have. - Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:47am | ||
| bbjones User Info... | >> Should they lose their human/civil rights. You break the law then yes. >> Not all laws are just. No they aren't. If you don't like the laws where you live, move. Or fight... - Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:10pm Edited: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:12pm | ||
| Sati User Info... | [Sorry to interrupt - I just approved a msg a couple back. He'd typed his address in wrong.] - Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:18pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Basketball Jones just told me to move if I don't like it, hardy har. You going to tell me to get a haircut too? I'm not arguing law, I'm arguing human rights. Canada is better than most at honoring civil/human rights. If YOU don't like it then YOU can move. Move to Burma or Somalia or North Korea. - Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:35pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds_TRSoQkJ0 - Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:50pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Uber Alles, assholes. - Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:54pm | ||
| bbjones User Info... |  | ||
| TBone User Info... | "Uber Alles, assholes." That very eloquent, well done. Some people see the world and cant understand why it isn't perfect, others simply understand how much worse our lives could be. trevor cory, you are clearly the former. Your implication that any of the views expressed here are fascist is incredibly naive and self aggrandizing, it is an insult to anyone who lived through or fought against that disgusting ideology. Furthermore, I think your willingness to attempt such a statement goes to some length to explaining your views on the matter of taser use. The original discussion, before you began making personal attacks, was with regards to a device that, while clearly imperfect, is a massive improvement on previous methods of controlling violent or resistive subjects by police. This has nothing to do, as you so callously implied, with oppressing beliefs, suppressing political dissent, or racial hatred. That was done with a bullet and a shallow unmarked grave. Tasers, on the other hand, are used to protect police and the public from individuals who, even temporarily, have forgotten the justly placed limitations placed on their behavior by our society. Don't lower yourself to accusing people of being something they clearly are not. If you truly believe our views are fascist, than you don't understand a thing about history or the suffering that took place in that era. If i was you, I would head down to the library and try to gain some perspective on how lucky we are to live where we do and how we do. - Tue, 30 Oct 2007 3:26pm | ||
| round em up User Info... | It sure is funny watching Trevor make an ass out of himself, yet again.... - Tue, 30 Oct 2007 4:04pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Oh bullshit smarty pants. I never once said that tasers shouldn't be used. I merely pointed out that they CAN kill. My argument is about "criminals" deserving of human rights. "Criminal" has many definitions. Everyone deserves human rights and anyone who disagrees is by definition a fascist. """"self aggrandizing"""", phffffft, who do you think you are? - Tue, 30 Oct 2007 4:21pm | ||
| TBone User Info... | First of all, my sincere congratulations on a post with more than 3 words in it. However, since you have failed to generate a cogent argument and once again have used obscenity and insults in place of an actual thesis i will simply respond to each of your disjointed, unrelated, nonsensical sentences. "Oh bullshit smarty pants..." ...touhce! "I never once said that tasers shouldn't be used. I merely pointed out that they CAN kill." OH, well then... thanks for the tip on that, i wasn't clear on that point, i had missed the numerous recent news stories involving the sad death of suspects who were tasered. Solid contribution to the debate there...from here on out, ill assume that you are in favor of taser use... or do you no longer have any position at all? "My argument is about "criminals" deserving of human rights." Alright, great, they sure do. But, in case you missed the name of this thread it is "too much tasering". I am going to go out on a limb here, and assume you meant that killing a violent suspect deprives said suspect of their inalienable human rights? Sorry: An individual's rights end at precisely the moment they jeopardize the ability of others to enjoy their own rights (human, property, speech, religion, so on) one way of overstepping the boundaries of your rights is to violently resist the lawful actions of the police. This isn't opinion, its the law of the land. " "Criminal" has many definitions." Actually: Crim·i·nal adjective 1: relating to, involving, or being a crime 2: relating to crime or to the prosecution of suspects in a crime 3: guilty of crime; also : of or befitting a criminal -Merriam Webster. "Everyone deserves human rights and anyone who disagrees is by definition a fascist." Better put: Everyone deserves human rights. If i was you i would go to some length to avoid using the term "Anyone who disagrees is..." thats a "slippery slope" if I ever saw one. " """"self aggrandizing"""", phffffft, who do you think you are? " I think i am setting straight a guy that opened his remarks in this thread by saying: "it takes a certain amount of mental illness, to want to be a cop in the first place." - Tue, 30 Oct 2007 5:31pm Edited: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 5:40pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Just when I think I've read the stupidest post ever, you go and post another. Your post is an orgy of stultifying cacophonous verbal depravity; an exercise in literary impotence, and an offense to all of good taste and decency. - Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:11pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | TBone>Trevor - Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:20am | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Who asked you? - Wed, 31 Oct 2007 1:07am | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | """"However, since you have failed to generate a cogent argument and once again have used obscenity and insults in place of an actual thesis"""" .......If I can't smoke and swear, I'm fucked. """"from here on out, ill assume that you are in favor of taser use... """" ........That just makes an ass out of you and me. But, in case you missed the name of this thread it is "too much tasering". ........this thread took a turn when the comment "you throw out human rights when you become a criminal", was made. Did you even read the whole thread? """"Sorry: An individual's rights end at precisely the moment they jeopardize the ability of others to enjoy their own rights (human, property, speech, religion, so on) one way of overstepping the boundaries of your rights is to violently resist the lawful actions of the police. This isn't opinion, its the law of the land."""" .......I accept your apology. """"Actually: Crim·i·nal adjective 1: relating to, involving, or being a crime 2: relating to crime or to the prosecution of suspects in a crime 3: guilty of crime; also : of or befitting a criminal -Merriam Webster."""" ........over the course of history countless laws have made criminals out of undeserving honest citizens. """"Better put: Everyone deserves human rights. If i was you i would go to some length to avoid using the term "Anyone who disagrees is..." thats a "slippery slope" if I ever saw one."""" .......well, you're not me. So kiss my white Irish ass. """"I think i am setting straight a guy that opened his remarks in this thread by saying: "it takes a certain amount of mental illness, to want to be a cop in the first place." """ ........One of the most dangerous, underpaid, overworked, unappreciated, thankless professions. I stand by that comment. So, there you have it. Now we both look like a pair of internet noobs. HAPPY? - Wed, 31 Oct 2007 1:29am | ||
| Anonymous User Info... | Yeah cause cops only use tasers when they'd otherwise have to shoot or club people. like when they can't get a woman who's 8 months pregnant to sign a speeding ticket: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/224099_vmalaika13.html or when they need to restrain a 6-year-old kid: http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/florida/news-article.aspx?storyid=27648 yeah those cops were given no other choice, what else could they have done? haha. cops use tasers in situations where they would never use clubs and guns, it's just an easy way to shut somebody down for whatever reason. whether you commit a crime or not there ARE restrictions on what the cops can do to you,if they tase somebody when they don't have to they're using excessive force. how often does that happen? who knows. you sure hear a lot about taser attacks these days though. Witness alleges man who died was Tasered 4 times: http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourview/2007/10/man_dies_after_taser_shock_by.html cops shot a dude in the eye with a taser: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2007/10/29/siu-taser.html?ref=rss - Wed, 31 Oct 2007 4:07am | ||
| J User Info... | go and preech your human rights case for criminals around the world where they might actually laugh in your face rather than the internet. Trev. your a decent guy; and have opinions and morals, but in all honesty it sounds and looks like your trying to salvage what little life is left in your arguement. Criminals, while they might have human rights here, will not have the same treatment around the world; also in most people's eye. Here it is; while taser use may be running rampant, there's only been 5 different cases here all statments from the victims themselves about how these "tasing" situations went down. Now compare that to use former "tactic" of restoring public safety(batons, bats, etc..) and honestly tell me that you'd rather the latter be used. And dont use dumb fuck americans as an example of how tasers are abused... why not try europe or auz. or south africa? where criminals are known to carry excessive firearms compared to the law enforcement. I understand your arguement trevor and have not posted anything in reply(not because I feel intimidated or offended) because I dont need some ignorant person preeching to people about human rights and privilages when that same person blocks out and will not consider any other point of view on the matter. In other words you dont make for good conversation if you keep telling everyone their wrong! So, to conclude my rant, be more open to different avenues of ideals cuz if you keep yourself in that self righteous bubble(aka vancouver island) then you wont be able to appreciate everything that we have here compared to the rest of the world.(its a pretty neat place if you let yourself out). I do not expect a reply to this; as I dont really have anything else to say. But if you(trev.) have something to say; aside from calling people "wrong", then Id welcome it. But until you can grow out of that whole "your wrong" thing, ciao! - Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:01pm Edited: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:02pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR510302006 - Thu, 1 Nov 2007 2:36pm | ||
| J User Info... | get out of the internet and see the world trev. and then you can develop your own opinions and arguements. - Thu, 1 Nov 2007 3:21pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Listen here BOY. I have led a life and continue to lead a life that you will only see from watching movies. I have studied many differant subjects, languages and cultures. Not just from books, but also by immersion. That lifestyle in combination with a lingering childhood disease almost killed me. I was told by my nephrologist that I'd reached life expectancy four years ago. I've fought back and will not die, but many days I can barely get out of bed. So if it seems like I spend to much time on here, please forgive me, but somedays it's all I can muster up the stregnth to do. Besides I like it here. I think it's cool. As far as getting out is concerned, I do my best. Last night I was on my way to Tolmie Hell House, but I started vomitting and couldn't make it. Tonight I made it out to catch an amazing new local band at Steamers, and tommorrow I will be attending the Moscow Ballet. I'm sure you are a nice kid, but do not assume you know me, because if you did you would beg the mods to delete your last comment. - Fri, 2 Nov 2007 1:05am | ||
| Sati User Info... | ^ pls don't suggest that people do that not everyone's friends with a mod and we've lost people on here because of stuff like that Anyway, hey did anyone see the interview with the guy who got the whole Vancouver airport taser death on video tape? He turned over the footage and hasn't got it back yet. He's pretty brave speaking out like that. - Fri, 2 Nov 2007 12:38pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | trev. I did not mean to offend you in anyway; nor do I ever or have ever assumed to know you. My judgement is based soley on your argument in this particular thread. We've all had our past, yours being quite different from mine but to each their own. What I mean by getting out and seeing the world before making human rights accusations and calling people wrong; is that your opinions as you stated in your last post, have come through your observations of a)movies(we all know theres "real" life interpritations) b) your personal life experience(which has nothing to do with criminal human rights). What I was getting at is that you have to look at more than just Canada and America in this arguement. It feels like(from my point of view) that you have some sort of ideal that theres north america or nothing. That is where we differ. I've been to all four corners of this globe(thanks to the oppourtunities i've taken in life be it school or travel) sure i might not know what its like to live on the street or be a criminal; but i've been to places where 1 dollar would make you a king; or where human rights are completely unheard of. Where as you've generated your arguement from personal life and fictional movies or non-fic. documentries(both of which do not provide you with a subjective point of view). Im not claiming to be the all hail debate king or know it all; but i'll be the first one to stand up for what I believe in, whether you think my opinion is "wrong". But that's also the beauty of living in a place where we are; we're ALLOWED to be wrong. Try preeching human rights to places in south or rural africa, or you equality issues in Thailand or malaysia. We live in a time where we are able to make these observations so easily because of media, internet, etc... but now we're left with empty arguements going in a circle; like we are here.(ie, everything kills... get over it). And again trev. im sorry if you were offended but i call it as i see it. I do appreciate your hilarious posts and your maniacal postings but I have to draw the line when all you come out and say is "YOUR WRONG". I know I said i was done with this; but I feel it needed that just because your a reg. here doesn't mean you own the world or mean that your opinion is better or more righteous than anyone elses. Tasers kill, but in the end; its up to the officer to reason the situation and if used wrong the officer(s) in mention will be repremanded to the highest degree our laws will allow. ps, dont ever call me kid or boy... im well past that stage in my life, and you dont even know who i am. - Fri, 2 Nov 2007 2:06pm Edited: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 2:07pm | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | I wish I had a taser. - Fri, 2 Nov 2007 2:28pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | http://www.taser.org/other.html - Fri, 2 Nov 2007 4:13pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | I'm only offended that you think I am someone who doesn't ever get out. Why are you so offended? If you are such a well travelled person you must realize how precious and valuable our "human rights" are. Therefor the suspension of said rights would be, wait for it.................... WRONG! - Fri, 2 Nov 2007 4:33pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | your right trev. I DO value our human rights policies in our country, and that's what makes it such a great place to be/live. But I hold no moral or physical sympathy for criminals and they deserve nothing short of a penny on the ground in terms of human rights. I do not plan, hope, wish, want to, will ever lead a life thats associated with crime; petty or major crime, so therefore I have nothing to worry for. Now should my rights be im-pinged upon unjustly then hopfully the court of law and law enforcment will/can hear my arguement. But you see it differently; so that's that. Quit the childish circular arguement and have some respect, cause not everyone sees the world as you do. And I dont think your someone that doesn't "get out"; im not calling you a loner, loser, houserat, homebody. Im simply saying theres more to the world than north america; and if you "studied" these cultures YOU would know that not everyone holds human rights the same way we do; but at the end of the day, SHIT GETS DONE! Sorry if you thought that I thought you were some sort of loser homebody; cuz I dont. Im not so much offended as I am simply frustrated at your ability to be so fucking stubborn. And your ease at pointing fingers(metaphorically speaking) at people and them being "WRONG". ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I may not know you; but from all of this, Id totally say your a drummer. well? - Fri, 2 Nov 2007 6:33pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | What's offensive is how 1st world nations seem to have this 'god given' right to cram their ideals, morals and values down other cultures throats. I used to support Amnesty International, pretty hardcore. But then I realized that even 'taming' those portions of others cultures was really wrong. It's not our place to police the morality of the world. We don't have the right to judge another culture based on our own beliefs or lack of empathy or education towards theirs. If someone was doing the same to 'us', people would be having a shit fit. There's a reason for us all to be different, and it's sure a great alternative to ending up in a NWO as mindless automatons with the same stupid meaningless smile and glazed look in the eye. - Sun, 4 Nov 2007 9:48am | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | """""We don't have the right to judge another culture based on our own beliefs or lack of empathy or education towards theirs. If someone was doing the same to 'us', people would be having a shit fit""""" ....aren't you passing judgment on "our" culture by making such a statement? I agree with the fundamentals of what you are saying, but doesn't it then become a circular argument? - Mon, 5 Nov 2007 2:17am | ||
| Chopper User Info... | I'm not making judgment on another culture though, I'm judging our own. And yes, any discussion can end up going in circles. That's what happens when you get 2 sides that aren't willing to bend or even attempt to see the other sides reasoning. - Mon, 5 Nov 2007 9:24am | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Does it matter if it's your own. The argument is circular because you are asking one culture to "change" by not trying to change other cultures. - Mon, 5 Nov 2007 6:30pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Actually I'm not asking for a change, cause I already know it'll never happen. Just making an observation. And of course it matters if the culture is your own. That's the major part of the observation. Judge ourselves on our value systems and allow other cultures to do what they deem necessary by their own value systems. Like I said, it's not our place (1st world nations) to judge other 'less' cultures, because our culture feels we're 'uber alles'. - Tue, 6 Nov 2007 9:05am | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Not all bad. - Wed, 7 Nov 2007 3:36am Edited: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 3:51am | ||
| Dr.DoomXXX User Info... | I wish ross bay had a taser. - Thu, 8 Nov 2007 8:22am | ||
| speedymarie User Info... | i don't think that Robert Dziekanski was killed by a taser shot(or multiple taser shots)...i think he was asphyxiated by four men kneeling on his pained, panicked and panting body...i am very sad about that event, i really am...some might argue he was acting crazy and deserved it...i don't believe so i still think that tasers are dangerous and over-used, but i do not necessarily support a moratorium on their use...i just wish they were used more responsibly, and like a gun, a last resort there is going to be a lot of PR and double speak coming out of law enforcement and politicians - Sat, 17 Nov 2007 12:12pm Edited: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 12:22pm | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | can I have a taser? - Sat, 17 Nov 2007 4:01pm | ||
| Sati User Info... | Someone help him out.. he lost his tiny taser in the war, he said - Sat, 17 Nov 2007 4:11pm | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | First order of bidness would be to taser your dickrag ass and take your smokes. And tic tacs. Bitch. Then on to the hippies....... - Sat, 17 Nov 2007 4:15pm | ||
| Sati User Info... | Well at least you wouldn't do yourself first. I know people who would, just to see how it feels. - Sat, 17 Nov 2007 4:24pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | You should write a letter to Santa, although I have a feeling you've been a naughty boy this year! - Sun, 18 Nov 2007 12:44am | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | Fuck off. - Sun, 18 Nov 2007 9:41am | ||
| Dr.DoomXXX User Info... | Fuck off even MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (check mate) - Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:26am | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | (damn.......................) - Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:34am | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | http://LiveVictoria.com/index.php?&action=load_mb&new_subject=346733¤t_board=17 - Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:09am | ||
| Hang the DJ User Info... | Following the tasering incident involving the Polish man, I think they should have all the responsible cop's faces on the newspaper, as they would any other criminal. They should all be fired as well because obviously they don't know what the fuck they're doing. Once you're tasered, it's hard to breathe. The cops murdered this guy by kneeling on him, making it impossible to get any air. The polish guy should've at least learned a little bit of english before coming here though.. but of course who would expect something like this. Cops were lying before the video was released.. saying the man barricaded himself with chairs or something? Then the video was released and it's like "oh shit"... Clearly the polish dude didn't have any weapons and didn't pose any real threat.. no need for tasering.. doesn't even fall under self defense.. it's murder.. But of course the media protects the police... maybe making them look like the "good guys" as much as possible so the public still feels safe? I don't blame the polish guy for getting a little crazy after 10 hrs of sitting in the airport. Traveling makes me fucking insane as well. Airports are the worst. - Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:38pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... |  | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | Don't fuck with cops. I guess. - Tue, 20 Nov 2007 5:15pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Take the tasers away and let them go back to the old forms of control (restraint holds, baton and gun), since there hasn't ever been issue with any of those either (and yes that last part was sarcasm). Either way there's going to be bleeding hearts whining about one thing or another in regards to how the police do their job, or at least how those bleeding hearts THINK they should do their job. - Tue, 20 Nov 2007 6:00pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | It seems to me they should have sent in a Polish speaking psychotherapist with an inflatable sumo suit on. That guy looked fairly mentally unstable whether he could understand English or not. Why is anyone surprised this happened? It's not the first time cops murdered someone who probably shouldn't have been. - Tue, 20 Nov 2007 8:41pm | ||
| Sati User Info... | "seems to me they should have sent in a Polish speaking psychotherapist with an inflatable sumo suit on" HAHAAAAA, i spit up my tea reading that one! so true. Though I'm not sure whether he looked anymore pissed off than I've seen a lot of "stable" people look after they've hit the breaking point over a lot less. It sounds like he'd been flying for a long time (a big guy, probably totally crunched up into a small seat), and may not have drank or eaten enough. I've been exhausted like that in airports before, where I hadn't hooked up with friends yet, and in the midst of making a life-changing move into a foreign country. I went without adequate sleep for weeks beforehand and was selling & packing away a longterm home til the second I left. It can be scary and I'd flown a zillion times before, and there was no language barrier! - Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:28pm | ||
| Swingin' Joe User Info... | That shit is rediculous. "Do it again." No wonder he died, I'd probably have a massive heart attack if I was tasered twice. They run out of pepper spray? This type of shit makes me sick to my stomach. Oh, the hero cops we have. - Wed, 21 Nov 2007 3:46pm | ||
| Cat Bundy User Info... | I read someone's comment in the paper about how it is our "violent society's" fault. Everything is society's fault. Energy + reaction. Voila! - Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:46pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Can't really agree with that Cat. At some point people need to step up and be accountable for their own actions, or inactions, and quit having something to blame it on. This has nothing to do with societal influences. Well actually I should say, if you're influenced by societal values (or any of the garbage that goes along with it), then you're nothing but a sheep/lemming. I'm talking about mainstream societal values and media, since the 2 are pretty much married now. North Americans seem to think we have such a violent society. Compare what we deal with to other countries and we're on a bloody picnic. - Thu, 22 Nov 2007 12:14am | ||
| Masturbating The War God User Info... | "I read someone's comment in the paper about how it is our "violent society's" fault. Everything is society's fault. Energy + reaction. Voila!" I'm going to go with sarcasim for $100 Alex. - Thu, 22 Nov 2007 1:26am Edited: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 1:26am | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Sarcasm doesn't port to text well... - Thu, 22 Nov 2007 2:18am | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2007/11/22/taser-death.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMenB9Ywh2Q - Fri, 23 Nov 2007 2:32am | ||
| trevor corey User Info... |  | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | I miss my lil' Swingin' Joe. - Fri, 23 Nov 2007 5:08pm | ||
| Hang the DJ User Info... | Partial sarcasm, hence "violent society". It's all energy and reaction. - Sat, 24 Nov 2007 12:22am | ||
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