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China is Fucked
| Message Board > Controversy and Quarantine > China is Fucked |
| trevor corey User Info... | The pollution, corruption and civil rights in China are horrble. It affects us all. What can you do? STOP SHOPPING AT WAL-MART!!!!!! - Sun, 13 May 2007 2:34pm | ||
| Mean Mike User Info... | Funny, I actually stopped shopping there about 4 months ago, not because of any political reason but because one of their red vest employees treated me like a thief after I spent $75 on assundries. Someone else beeped the beeper, I stopped and came back in and walked back through, had the door greeter ok me to leave, but then a minute later the manager lady comes out to the parking lot and writes down my licence plate.. Fuck Them! - Sun, 13 May 2007 2:56pm | ||
| jeff User Info... | but i love multinational corporations - Sun, 13 May 2007 2:56pm | ||
| darcy User Info... |  Though, lwalz. good one. - Sun, 13 May 2007 3:06pm | ||
| denver User Info... | Human rights there do suck, child labour isn't good. But unfortunately a lot of Chinese feed their families and are dependent on the meagre wages they earn. I don't claim to know what's best for China but a lot of left-wing, human rights activists, including a UVIC professor, have said that boycotting child labour/slave labour is not the best way to help these people. Having a crap job is better than no job. If you really want to help there are organizations that broker better wages/working conditions etc. for workers there. I still don't shop at Wal Mart I think it's bad for the world in a lot of ways. - Sun, 13 May 2007 4:47pm | ||
| Mofo User Info... | in response to denver... for one being a UVIC prof doesn't make you somehow more enlightened than the rest of us, AND he's wrong. China is ONE amoung MANY countries that allow Child Labour, India, Tibet, Pakistan...many more. Child labour has existed for centuries and even existed in North America (of course not the same brutal profit driven type) but existed none the less. The arguement that boycotting child labour will ruin these peoples lifestyles is nothing short of cheap political drivel. These countries are in poverty and Western nations are taking FULL advantage of that...I don't care how you paint it...put all the PR on it you want, candy coat it and say that its ok for a child to be chained (LITERALLY) to a carpet jig and beaten because it creates some kind of economic gain for the country however small in scale... Put simply these children are often working 20 hour days, are fed only enough to exist and are not allowed to see thier families...and are paid the equivilant of maybe, MAYBE 2 dollars a day. These are not exaggerations and to sit here and justify a 5 or 6 year old working in such conditions because the Western Governments are in reality too complacent to do anything about it and would much rather profit from international partnerships is APPAULING. If you lived in these countries would you want your child working in such conditions? I suggest anyone really serious about wanting to KNOW the ugly truth to have a look at this link... http://www.unicef.org/sowc97/report/ - Mon, 14 May 2007 10:22am | ||
| Mofo User Info... | BATTLED CHILD LABOR, BOY, 12 MURDERED ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) - When Iqbal Masih was 4 years old, his parents sold him into slavery for less than $16. For the next six years, he remained shackled to a carpet-weaving loom most of the time, tying tiny knots hour after hour. By the age of 12, he was free and traveling the world in his crusade against the horrors of child labour. On Sunday, Iqbal was shot dead while he and two friends were riding their bikes in their village of Muridke, 35 kilometres outside the eastern city of Lahore. Some believe his murder was carried out by angry members of the carpet industry who had made repeated threats to silence the young activist. Toronto Star - Mon, 14 May 2007 10:33am | ||
| Nik Olaz User Info... | ...being a UVIC prof doesn't make you somehow more enlightened than the rest of us Actually I'm pretty sure it does. - Mon, 14 May 2007 3:09pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | Lol, no it doesn't......... I don't think it is the consumer's responsibility to not shop at walmart or whatever..I think the responsibility should sit on the shoulders of our government. No matter what the average joe hears, he'll still go to walmart and buy the lawnchair for cheaper than canadian tire or where ever...But if the Canadian Government decided to require franchise's to pass certain requirements..it wouldn't matter what the hell average joe thought cause it would already be a rule. Let's face it..most of us are just mindless drones doing 9-5 anyways..its true. That's why our government is fucking bullshit. They are the ones that are getting paid to make such decisions, not us. This country needs politicians who care enough to make real changes that aren't disorganized hippies (green party) who couldn't balance their own chequebooks let alone a budjet. (and the other parties are fucked too) - Mon, 14 May 2007 5:48pm Edited: Mon, 14 May 2007 5:51pm | ||
| Nik Olaz User Info... | If they're not more enlightened than the average Joe, then why do they make more money than them? I'm pretty sure they also spend more time on these subjects than most of us care to bother with in our lifetimes. - Tue, 15 May 2007 12:11am | ||
| Jl User Info... | from being in Hong Kong for the past week, id have to say that life isn't as bad as you hippies would like to think. People are happy, gracious, helpful, and overwhelmingly polite. Sure I have the luxery of staying in a hotel, but i've been through a couple fishing villages and have seem what rural life could be like(tho not having experienced it I cant comment whether i could handle it lol and im pretty sure i cant). I havent seen one homeless person on the streets i've strolled through, which is about the length of Nathan Rd. and about a 5 km radius around my hotel (nathan and gascoine). I realise that people might not live in the best of conditions but for a city that has the population of canada crammed into a space smaller than california, life is pretty good. People care about each other here; unlike some other countries i've been to or live in. I find the major difference between the hospitality and well being of people here and over back home; is that people here do things for others and dont expect any recognition or return, where as in north america you couldn't get by without someone hittin' you up for something they did for you in the past. So for those who think people are miserable and unhealthy here, maybe you should actually take a trip and see what its like. I know some of you have been around asia im sure, and are probly scowling at your moniters at my comments; but that's just what i've seen and experienced. Everyone has their own opinions! - Tue, 15 May 2007 12:52am | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1DNjJd2YfA&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgGCQ0nVcyU&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4INGMPPrUa0&mode=related&search= - Tue, 15 May 2007 2:25am | ||
| Andrew User Info... | Ok they are probably more enlightened yes, but what i meant to get across was that they don't always have the right beliefs....but then again thats a matter of oppinion, right. - Tue, 15 May 2007 10:46am | ||
| Mean Mike User Info... | Bottom line is if you spend $100 at Walmart on small assorted items (ie; food, toiletries, pet supplies etc) you'd be spending probably about $20-$40 more on the same crap anywhere else. Especially in this city where rent and gas are so expensive, thats a huge incentive for people with familes or whatever to shop there. I have two huge hungry dogs and since I stopped buying their food in that shithole my monthly dog food bill alone has gone up about $30. The exact same brand of food at Zellers is about $5 more per bag, $7 more at Fairway, and around $10-$12 more at Safeway, Petcetera etc. Obviously some price gouging going on somewhere, as the dog food is made in Ontario. meh I dont care, they treat me like shit I will gladly pay more elsewhere, I do it for me not some poor kid that deserves better but would probably be eating dog food if he isnt earning his 12cents an hour. - Tue, 15 May 2007 11:45am | ||
| Andrew User Info... | That's the thing....There should be regulations to stores to not buy from child labour companies.. but then hey..the price would go up...and yea..we'd actualy have to share some of the 1st world wealth..oh darn. What a shame :( - Tue, 15 May 2007 1:21pm | ||
| Mofo User Info... | OK to the dude who was just on vaction in Hong Kong...how ignorant are you, really? So you spent a week in a well off Asian country and you proclaim to know first hand that because you didn't see it, it therefore must not exist. I have been to 4 different continents and actually seen it...first hand jackass...and it sure as hell wasn't from the view of my hotel room. You can read 100 books, then get a Masters and vomit back up to your fledgling students that which you read yourself...it doesn't make you enlightened, and it sure as hell doesn' make you an authority and MOST profs I know would aggree with me on that. "I'm pretty sure they also spend more time on these subjects than most of us care to bother with in our lifetimes." Gee that didn't sound like the average North Americian setiment....you couldn't care less. - Tue, 15 May 2007 2:57pm | ||
| Mean Mike User Info... | Wow cuz when I was in Hong Kong one thing I totally noticed was the vast difference between rich and poor, not that I saw any noticable child labour but there is definately a class gap.. that was pre-1997 when it was still under the UK. - Tue, 15 May 2007 3:05pm Edited: Tue, 15 May 2007 3:06pm | ||
| Nik Olaz User Info... | ...yes because being a professor is all about vomiting up information. And I don't think the "average North American" statement would go much past the words "SUPER SIZE IT PLEASE". As far as I can tell majority of people don't give a willy-nilly fuck about much past their own little world of going to a bar on the weekend, and watching Desperate Housewives. - Tue, 15 May 2007 7:12pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | I bought a plain black baseball cap today from Wal-Mart that would have cost $20 in any hat store or department store anywhere in town. It cost me $1.96. It was such a good deal I bought one for work and one for non-work time. That is why I go to Wal-Mart. I don't necessarily like it, but when life is so fucking expensive already and wages aren't going up I gotta look out for me. It was, incidentally made in China and well made at that. 100% cotton...niiiice! - Tue, 15 May 2007 8:45pm | ||
| begbie User Info... | To the ignorant person who thinks Hong Kong represents China, next time go to go northern or eastern part of China, especially in the rural areas, and you will think you have gone back 500 years ago. Some of those areas make our native reserves look like Beverly Hills. The major cities may look like any metropolis in the the developed countries but the rural areas are still in third world conditions. http://www.digg.com/world_news/The_Real_China_Pics_2 - Tue, 15 May 2007 9:05pm Edited: Tue, 15 May 2007 9:17pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | hah, mofo... you seem to miss the point; completely. Im not, and have NEVER EVER professed to be a know-it-all. Im just giving you MY PERSPECTIVE of what IVE SEEN in my travels here and abroad. Hong Kong is not the only place i've been in the world, and I even said that i haven't been here long enuff to really give an accurate assesment of what really is going on, but on the surface; from what i've seen hasn't been as bad as you would like to think it is. Child labor ANYWHERE is unacceptable PERIOD. But what i was trying to say is that people here aren't miserable, sad, etc... Sure they have hardships but unlike you, they dont bitch and moan about it; they live life and continue to do so under any circumstance. And thanks for calling me an ignorant idiot, i really appreaciate the childish trolling. If you can pick me apart this well on a msg board why dont you apply that sense to the real world and make a difference? you obeveously are emotional/passionate about your opinions; why waste them here? - Tue, 15 May 2007 11:24pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... |  I agree, life is too expensive around here, but we're going to pay, one way or another. ..........I think my next thread should be about Elephant poaching. - Wed, 16 May 2007 12:19am Edited: Wed, 16 May 2007 12:24am | ||
| Mean Mike User Info... | Cheap baseball caps suck. FlexFit or go home yo! (and they be pretty cheap) - Wed, 16 May 2007 1:04am | ||
| Spinvis User Info... | Jl has some great points there. Agreed with Mr.Hell. Looking forward to the new Wal-Mart... 2 floors of Wal-Mart its going to be... muahahaha. Only complaint is the line ups are too long ;-) - Wed, 16 May 2007 7:41am | ||
| Mofo User Info... | JI....get it right, I called you ignorant....and I called you a jackass... Wow...don't take things too personally there You seem to miss my point, I never ONCE bitched and moaned about how bad I have it...and for your knowledge (thats the opoosite of ignorance)...I am doing something about it. I have been to orphanages in China, Korea and others So, I am not just barking out of my ass on the topic and I am not simply spouting off on a message board. So my apologies if I seem to have taken things a little personally myself...I do apologize for calling you both a jackass and ignorant... cheers - Wed, 16 May 2007 1:32pm Edited: Wed, 16 May 2007 1:48pm | ||
| J. Peatman User Info... | "BATTLED CHILD LABOR, BOY, 12 MURDERED ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) - When Iqbal Masih was 4 years old, his parents sold him into slavery for less than $16. For the next six years, he remained shackled to a carpet-weaving loom most of the time, tying tiny knots hour after hour. By the age of 12, he was free and traveling the world in his crusade against the horrors of child labour." That little bastard. Took him only 8 years to reach retirement. I wish I had been free and financially stable enough to travel the world freely at the age of 12. - Wed, 16 May 2007 3:44pm Edited: Wed, 16 May 2007 3:45pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | This $1.96 cap fits as well or better than the Flex-Fit I had that got ripped off from the jamspot a while back. They are $20 no matter where you get them. As far as the acid rain and slave labour goes, my stopping of buying cheap shit at Wal-Mart isn't going to end it. It's up to the powers that be to end it. Write some letters and see if that helps. - Wed, 16 May 2007 4:39pm | ||
| XY-SHIZZLE User Info... | Holy fuck Mike, what pricks they where for doing that. Plus you're like their fukin neighbour?! Meh! I was fallowed around in Shoppers drug mart by a store dic, after dodging and turning I waited just around the corner looking that way with my arms crossed! He just about walked into me! Hehe! I asked why he was fallowing me and he said it was just chance, he fallows all sorts of people… well that’s what the sneaky snake in the grass said? Hehehe! Hey, I got called “ My kind “ a few weeks ago . As in we don‘t want his kind around…. I have Nooo idea what my kind IS, but they didn’t like it……. I guess I‘m just sayin ……I’m Bu bu baad … bad teh the bone ? :p Hehehe!! I need to wear more flannel, or hemp clothing and then they’d just think I was Jesus or a dirty stinkin hippy ! Hehe! ....not a psycho killer. - Wed, 16 May 2007 7:16pm Edited: Wed, 16 May 2007 7:21pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | mofo, no offence taken; it is certainly hard to get the right points across on a msg board. I didn't necisarily or specifically mean 'you' complain' or bitching, tho i may have directed it at You; but much like yourself I didnt mean it personally either. Its good to know that people still stand up for what they believe in! Hopefully in the future we can figure out a way to use our opinions on these msg boards to actually help make a difference. But until then, we can all have our fun on here :P jackass :P jk my last msg before i head on the plane back to home sweet home(where i have a phatty rolled and ready to smoke!!!!! o man i cant wait lol), and Id have to say that this place is one of the koolest places i've been(for a relatively unseasoned traveller), I reccommend it highly! - Wed, 16 May 2007 11:05pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | C'mon Mr Hell. You're a smart fella. You must know the reason your black Walmart hat is so cheap is because the factory in China that made it doesn't have to comply to the same standards of pollution control and worker's rights as a factory in Windsor. ......and to XYbountyhunter, get a haircut! ; ) - Thu, 17 May 2007 1:09am Edited: Thu, 17 May 2007 1:11am | ||
| Mofo User Info... | JI...you jackass LOL...ya cheers dude...hope you enjoy that fatty mc fatty...where you heading? J.Peatman...nice try at getting a rise there dude, actually almost got a chuckle outta that shit - Thu, 17 May 2007 10:56am | ||
| Meantime Mike User Info... | Funny thing XY is I know and have partied with a few of the walkers that work at that Wal Mart.. but if it were them, they are just doing their job, however in this case it was some red vested mid life momma trying to be vigilant I guess. and not being very discrete. (unlike a plain clothes floor walker, who as I said has one job, thats to watch people.) and considering it wasnt me setting off the beeper, and I proved that and was given the clear by the door lady.. meh.. screw them and their cheap labour! PS: the wage they pay their employees is minimum.. considering what we pay for rent in this city, thats almost a slave's wage! - Thu, 17 May 2007 10:56am Edited: Thu, 17 May 2007 1:54pm | ||
| dumpstermesh User Info... | Xy reminded me of when I was being followed by a floor walker in a Shoppers Drug Mart too. They really do follow all kinds cuz I like to think that I'm so sweet and innocent looking, but anyways. When I realized he was following me I decided to have a little fun with him and I walked about half way into the tampon/maxi section and stopped. He promptly picked up a box of girly things and examined them like it was his sole purpose in life. I laughed at him, went to the till and paid for my purchases. Good fun. As for Walmart. I try to choose my battles carefully but sometimes when I'm saving a large amount of money on a bigger ticket item that wasn't made in a country that supports child/slave labour I can't deny it. - Thu, 17 May 2007 1:42pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | I'm sure the mountains of burning tires are doing way more damage than the black hat factory, so I won't lose much sleep over it. - Thu, 17 May 2007 5:59pm | ||
| Mean Mike User Info... |  "China's Pearl River estuary is so badly polluted the fish that once thrived in its waters have virtually vanished. The contamination includes heavy metals, oil, nitrogen, ammonia and other chemical matter with levels of pollutants far higher than standards set by the State Environmental Protection Administration. In 2004, nearly 2.5 million tons of pollutants produced by agriculture and industry flowed into the mouth of the Pearl River. Chen Guangrong, director of the Guangdong Provincial Environmental Protection Bureau, was cited as saying that as well as industrial pollutants over two billion tons of sewage drained into the estuary last year. " and from another site: "Li cited the local brewing industry as an example suggesting at least 50 percent of water could be saved in the beer-making process. On average 10.2 tons of water was used to produce one ton of beer in China but the consumption of the Pearl River Beer Group had been reduced to 5.08 tons. The beer giant was using technology to improve efficiency, said Wang Zhibin, deputy general manager of the group, one of China's three biggest brewers. Wang said its efforts concentrated on the utilization of vapor and the recycling of wastewater." - Thu, 17 May 2007 6:31pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Mountains of burning tires!?! Holy shit! ....somebody should start a thread about this. - Thu, 17 May 2007 6:44pm | ||
| gene User Info... | Man I thought youz were talking about China the wrestling bitch! now my boner is gone. - Fri, 18 May 2007 2:39pm | ||
| XY-SATAN User Info... |  | ||
| trevor corey User Info... |  | ||
| Anonymous User Info... | I live in china and have for a couple years. most chinese factory workers come from impoverished rural areas. the average chinese farmer makes 400 US dollars a year, the average chinese factory worker earns around 100 US dollars per month. Although the wages are shitty it reperesents a major improvement in the quality of life for them and their family. there's no social security in china so if your kids can't support you when you get too old to work you starve to death. I don't know why people think that most goods that come from china are produced by child labour most factory workers i know are young men and women 16-25 years old. the water in tsingtao beer comes from laoshan spring, not the pearl river. zhujiang (pearl river) beer is made from pearl river water. it's label claims it's formaldahyde free. haha. - Sat, 19 May 2007 2:49am | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | With all that dye and heavy metal toxins, those two delicious beers are still cleaner and still taste better than major Canadian domestics. Go figure!! - Sat, 19 May 2007 4:37pm | ||
| Mean Mike User Info... | Thats what bleach does.. It cleans. - Sat, 19 May 2007 6:23pm | ||
| Ryan User Info... | Hey! I lived in guangzhou (china)for a couple of years where zhujiang beer is from. they do not make the beer from the pearl river - that's a crazy polluted river! the water comes from a water source away from guangzhou city,just like the city water,they don't get it from the pearl river. zhujiang beer kicks ass. - Tue, 29 May 2007 11:08am Edited: Tue, 29 May 2007 11:09am | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Aww, you've gone and ruined Mike's only source of trying to harrass me. Both those beers are still better than Sleeman's and Shaft 420 by light years with bleach, rat shit or any other foreign toxic substance in them. - Tue, 29 May 2007 4:18pm | ||
| jlee User Info... | china is fucked? i guess the rest of the planet is doing it's part, huh? and what's up with the 'hong kong = china' and is a representation of china itself? worlds apart. fucking worlds. ok, ok, shanghai, guangzhou, shenzhen, beijing...they have their moments. anyway, why is this reported like new news? recycling didn't just happen last year and neither did china. - Fri, 8 Jun 2007 5:21am Edited: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 5:21am | ||
| trevor corey User Info... |  | ||
| jlee User Info... | you're missing my point by bringing up a picture almost 20 years old. 'china is fucked'. alright then, i'm not arguing it's shortcomings. but you could place half of the world's countries names' (i'm being leniant on that) in place of china and have the same statement with the same problems. unless, quantity not quality is your moto. pollution - toronto in summer anyone? there's the cn tower. and, now it's gone. civil rights - where do i start? corruption - i may be wrong, but i think the three that jostle for the gold are nigeria, indonesia and the phillipines. how this is measured is beyond me, but let's just agree that corruption is no secret in these places. you're just picking at the easiest and biggest target when really, it's much more than china (at the moment - yes, china will inevitably be bigger than jesus. the world's changing because it just fucking happens). where are these problems non existant? fine, mars, you win. but, it sounds more like zhongguo-phobia *copyright* to me. stop shopping at walmart? china shits walmart for breakfast at 6am daily. i guess it's little victories, sure. but, it's like informing the public who get their news from the national enquirer. 'smoking is bad for you.' really? i had no idea. i'll stop today. - Sat, 9 Jun 2007 6:52am | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | http://www.all-creatures.org/anex/dog.html - Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:53pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | The problem with N American, and even some EU, is that we attempt to judge them based on our own culture. This is where a lot of issues come up, and is why the UN should be disbanded. We aren't *insert other culture here* and to expect them to just fall to their knees and forget their own culture so they can assimilate to ours is asinine. Trev's last link is a prime example. What's not acceptable to us, is more than acceptable in another countries culture, and that's the way it should be. Just because we chose to raise cattle, and various other forms of life, to feed ourselves rather than dogs, cats or any other form of 'cute' life isn't any different. Other cultures, that hold certain farmed animals we eat as sacred, look upon us with the same disdain. - Tue, 21 Aug 2007 1:12pm Edited: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 1:13pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | ......and I would agree with them, as many Chinese would agree that torturing dogs to increase their adreniline in order to make their meat taste better is fucked. Western consumption of beef and pork is completely out of hand. - Tue, 21 Aug 2007 1:21pm Edited: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 1:22pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Fuck it. In this particular case I don't give a flying fuck about cultural diferances, YOU DON'T EAT DOGS, PERIOD. - Tue, 21 Aug 2007 1:29pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Force feeding cute little ducks just so they have nice fat edible livers isn't any different to some people I'm sure. But our culture doesn't seem to have an issue with it. *shrug* I love dogs, but that's what our culture has taught us and is why it's illegal to eat it here. It's not illegal there for the same reasons we have for butchering and mistreating what we eat as food. I'd be more concerned with what the chinese do regarding vivsection than I would about parts of the country, and some of their close neighbors, eating dog. - Tue, 21 Aug 2007 3:45pm | ||
| darcy User Info... | Obviously China's best move would be to move back to the "People's War for the 21st Century"...or something along those lines. - Tue, 21 Aug 2007 6:31pm | ||
| Danielle User Info... | China is fucked is so many ways. All those of you who freaked out on the anti-smoking bylaw thread saying that smokers were disgusting, blah, blah, would love it over there because they all smoke. Everywhere. Not only do they turture and eat dogs but they attempt to terminate late-stage pregnancies if the ultra sound indicates the baby is famale. Either that or they just give birth and dump the baby on the roadside or if they are in a good mood - an orphanage. If I were independantly wealthy I would go there and bring home as many daughters as they would let me. They pay huge money for poachers to come over here and slay bears for their guts. Even mother bears while the little cubs watch. Yeah I know every country has its own culture that often seems barbaric (sp?) to north americans but some of that is just too sick to even think about. So that is usually why I just don't. - Tue, 21 Aug 2007 8:10pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Traditional Chinese Medicine (in China) is contributing if not leading the way in the extinction of many species. Don't get me totally wrong, I trained in T.C.M. for three years, and I believe it can be an excellent complimentary medicine, but they take it way to far in China. I'm not meaning to sound like I'm hating on Chinese people, in fact quite the opposite. I would like to see all the peoples of the Earth live in peace and equality, but most importantly, harmony. We got upset this year when the Liberals started thinking about a couple of coal burning power plants, over a thousand came on line in China last year alone. Vancouver island could see the acid rain as a result. China's sheer size should make her take the lead in bettering the planet, yet the actions, or inactions of the Chinese government are showing the opposite. The world has shrunk, and we all suffer the consequences of each others actions. - Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:18pm Edited: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:22pm | ||
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