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Lemon Tree is amazing!
| Message Board > Controversy and Quarantine > Lemon Tree is amazing! |
| steve User Info... | Maybe this thread will make LTR management more comfortable in expressing why they cant ask the bands that rehearse there to turn down a tad. - Thu, 23 Sep 2010 11:24am | ||
| Evangelium User Info... | Show us how one turns a drum kit down and I'm sure this whole LTR vs Logans issue will be resolved. And please don't say "play lighter". - Thu, 23 Sep 2010 6:05pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Get pads that cover the skins and hit as hard as you can...no one can say shit then. - Thu, 23 Sep 2010 7:27pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | not play quieter; but at least gain some technique and play with more dynamic than just FUCKING LOUD. Just because you're loud doesn't mean your practicing well. Or, dont have afternoon bookings. - Thu, 23 Sep 2010 7:45pm | ||
| Anchor User Info... | +1 JDL or Electronic. Does anyone who practices a LTR notice bass or drums bleeding through from Logans? If you don't seriously think about it. You can perform in a bar quieter than you practice? If you do hear it coming from Logans this whole thing is a mess. - Thu, 23 Sep 2010 8:19pm | ||
| Evangelium User Info... | Minus 11 JDL. A practicing band, who's working on some great new ideas, inspiration pumping; the last thing they're going to do is "incorporate some technique and play with more dynamic". You're going to feed off the energy of the awesome music you're creating, that may mean hitting harder than if you were just going over a set list for the umpteenth time. - Thu, 23 Sep 2010 9:43pm Edited: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 9:44pm | ||
| steve User Info... | So the issue is with low freq. The kick drum and the bass guitar. Based on the description of the studio build and subsequent renovations and improvements we can assume the following. The drums and Bass amp are on high quality risers, the floor is de-coupled and insulated and the room is treated. If this was all done properly then the only other option is for the source to be quieter. Turn down everything and the drums wont have to compete as much (and it will probably sound better) Dampen the kick with a pillow, tune your drums and get some dampeners on the toms and snare. Nothing extreme like those pads.. you still want to feel the drums and hear them. Evange, I hear what you're saying and couldn't agree with you more.... excpet this "A practicing band, who's working on some great new ideas, inspiration pumping; the last thing they're going to do is "incorporate some technique and play with more dynamic". thats just plain ridiculous. So maybe the location isn't suitable for a rehearsal space. - Fri, 24 Sep 2010 12:19am Edited: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 11:22am | ||
| JDL User Info... | I understand what your sayin' about the practicing... we all get into it; but I dont crank up my amp just because it feels good... I have it set to a level suitable to practice at(so I dont a)wear my tubes b)wear my amp). So a good drummer should be able to channel those feelings properly within his/her dynamic and technical range. - Fri, 24 Sep 2010 1:22pm Edited: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 1:24pm | ||
| Evangelium User Info... | Of course they should, if they're playing in a christian soft rock band. Expecting a drummer to dumb it down while feeding off the energy of a good heavy jam is as unlikely as having the guitarist stand perfectly still. Steve, please explain what's "just plain ridiculous". - Fri, 24 Sep 2010 4:07pm Edited: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 4:09pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | who said anything about dumbing it down or taking feel away? or going soft? You might want to read the post and comprehend it before adding your 2 cents. I know plenty of very talented drummers than can play just as emotionally and charged off a good heavy jam quiet as they can loud. Im not telling anyone they should play soft, Im just saying with a little dynamic control it'll sound better than just a wall of fuzz... even if it "feels good". When you understand what we mean by dynamics; you'll think back to this thread... I garantee it. - Fri, 24 Sep 2010 4:23pm | ||
| steve User Info... | Evange, Your comment about how a band thats 'practicing' and 'working on some great new ideas' wouldn't think to 'incorporate technique and play with more dynamic' seems to me quite ridiculous. Could that not be the very definition of a 'practicing band'. prac·tic·ing band 1. a group of instrumentalists playing music of a specialized type: rock band; calypso band; mariachi band in order to acquire skill or proficiency. That aside. I was at some friends rehearsal the other night and they are a hard/heavy rock band. I actually asked the drummer what he had on his snare and how he got his kit so quiet. He said "Nothing" now as it turns out he basically had the kick heavily dampened with pillows and I found this helped it cut through the mix without being too boomy and resonant. The floor tom was tuned a bit loose which again took out a lot of the boom and gave it more attack. Beyond the actual drums the room was quite 'dead' which helped reel in a lot of the standing waves and early reflections. As a consequence both the guitars and the bass could keep their volumes in check so that sounded rad but didnt blow the room out. I am really not sure what you/we're even arguing. I am trying to point out that apparently LTR has taken many steps to correct the problem without addressing the source of the problem. From what I hear from friends that have rehearsed at LTR they were never told or even asked to be mindful of volumes. - Fri, 24 Sep 2010 6:24pm | ||
| Evangelium User Info... | No need for sarcasm, I merely wished you to explain your post a tad better, Steve. I suspect I am debating this issue with 2 non-drummers (in fact, I "garantee" it), and may as well beat my head against a brick wall rather than try to argue my point. Goodnight, homos. - Fri, 24 Sep 2010 7:46pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | Ev. Im not trying to be a dick here bud... if you understood what I meant, you would realize there's more to drumming than JUST playing your heart as loud as fucking possible. Here's language you might understand. A shitty drummer can only play loud and proud. Btw, if you still dont understand what I mean, there's various drummers you could check out for technique that might help you... Max Roach, Elvin Jones, Neil Peart, Travis Barker, Andrea Vadrucci(vadrum)... a couple modern drummers in there. I am by no means and have NEVER EVER said anything about dulling, dumbing, or quieting down. I said playing with feeling and a little dynamic(technique) goes a long way. Dynamics will help you channel that fired up feeling properly through your drumming. You're right, Im not a drummer... I play guitar, and drums... and key's... sing... I love music, all of it. I understand where your coming from; and when you understand where I'm coming from, you'll then realize your being a dick :D - Sat, 25 Sep 2010 10:17am Edited: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 10:20am | ||
| steve User Info... | Evange,... Im sure you can deal with a little sarcasm and you see how well it illustrated how retarded you sound sometimes. toss a pillow in the kick and turn down the bass amp.. problem solved. end of story. If that doesnt cut it then the paper floors are obviously not a good fit for a jam spot.. especially over a local eatery. Evange, what band do you drum for? and no im not a drummer.. you caught me. have a good afternoon homo. - Sat, 25 Sep 2010 11:45am | ||
| Ottoman User Info... |  | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Hitting the drums softer will work if you are a "modern" drummer in a "modern rock" band. Or a band that plays with slightly fuzzy guitars and a vocalist made of cream cheese. This is not an option for bands whose dynamics don't go to the more delicate degree as often. Maybe Lemontree should only rent to bands that can function at a certain decibel level to clear this mess up. - Sun, 26 Sep 2010 2:34pm | ||
| sumyungai User Info... | "Hitting the drums softer will work if you are a "modern" drummer in a "modern rock" band. Or a band that plays with slightly fuzzy guitars and a vocalist made of cream cheese. " I'm not sure if this was meant tongue in cheek, I certainly found that Run Like Hell's drummer had a lot of dynamics in his playing, and certainly wasn't the loudest drummer on Thursday night by far! - Sun, 26 Sep 2010 3:18pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | "This is not an option for bands whose dynamics don't go to the more delicate degree as often." you're practicing... not playing a show; you should be concentrating on writing/arranging your songs. Save the energy for the show and it'll be that much more satisfying. But to each their own, right? And I guess every band/musician have different ways of practicin'. Im not in a soft rock or indie rock style band by any stretch, and we happen to practice fairly loud... but I also understand the need for a drummer to have at least a shred of an idea how vital technique and dynamics are. Its a piss off when a guitar player CRANKS the shit out of their amp during practice(i've been guilty :S) and its no different when a drummer kicks it up(no pun intended); again, this is during PRACTICE not a show... all gloves are off for a show!! lol - Sun, 26 Sep 2010 10:52pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Byron is generally a hard hitter. There are sections where we bring it down, but for the most part it's heavy dynamic. When you love your songs and get excited enough when jamming to go all out, that's the way it has got to be. When writing or arranging new music, of course you need to turn down or slow down to get parts figured, but after that you need to play it how you envision it once it's tight to become accustomed to that degree of intensity. - Mon, 27 Sep 2010 12:26pm | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | IMHO no band that actually pays for rehearsal space should have to compromise their stage volume in any way. If they do then the rehearsal space is in the wrong place, period. - Wed, 29 Sep 2010 1:15pm | ||
| steve User Info... | Unless of course there is an understanding prior to deposits and money changing hands. But yeah, couldn't agree with you more. When I rent my place out.. its yours for the few hours.. if you wanna mic up a blender grinding cinder blocks and crank it to ear bleeding levels... do it... - Wed, 29 Sep 2010 2:20pm | ||
| Dr.DoomXXX User Info... | Cinder blocks in a blender? I've heard that concept be used as a metaphor to describe Krisiun's drumming before.....in a complementary way of course. - Wed, 29 Sep 2010 11:56pm | ||
| ::Saint:: User Info... | This is just my opinion.. but I've played with a lot of drummers, in rock bands, metals bands, whatever, and the one thing that keeps coming back to me to separate a good drummer from a great is volume control. Specifically the ability to maintain the intensity but control the volume. Not all drummers can do this, but the great ones can, and do. I would have to agree, though, that at the end of the day, the underlying issue is probably that LTR is in a bad location, and just shouldn't be there, however, as someone pointed out, EuroStudio managed to maintain a rehearsal space in that same location for years, seemingly without issue. - Mon, 4 Oct 2010 1:29pm | ||
| Codine Vandal User Info... | yeah but euro was an entire floor higher in the building - Mon, 4 Oct 2010 3:12pm | ||
| ::Saint:: User Info... | Ah, I didn't realize that. That being the case, it would seem to come down to simply being a bad location - insufficient research on the part of LTR and not enough forethought put into the decision to move in there. It seems like a no-brainer to me that having a loud rehearsal space directly above any business would be a bad idea. There is a reason that Rick at ProJam doesn't operate his studios during business hours for the most part -- unfortunately business hours for Logan's extend beyond your normal 9-5. Ultimately, LTR in that location was just a bad idea executed poorly and with no accountability. - Mon, 4 Oct 2010 3:21pm | ||
| steve User Info... | I think that if there was enough 'studio/recording' work out there for LTR things probably would have worked out well for everyone. This 'issues' seemed to manifest after LTR switched their focus from Recording to Rehearsal (to stave off failure I assume)... and again when LTR did their designing and room treatments it must have been done under the thought that they would be operating as a Recording Studio.. Rehearsal space sound abatement is a whole other animal. I do honestly hope that LTR is able to find a way to make it work for everyone involved. There is absolutely nothing wrong with more rehearsal space and recording options out there. Steve/Runway - Mon, 4 Oct 2010 5:00pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | on the contrary Euro is/was on the same level, but in the back of the building now. However, noise is still pretty loud from up there. The reason you may think there's 3 floors is that there's squash courts right behind logan's with a very high ceiling. - Mon, 4 Oct 2010 5:03pm | ||
| Codine Vandal User Info... | wrong,i jammed there and it was on the third floor unless you are calling me a liar. it's another stairway right behind lemon tree. - Mon, 4 Oct 2010 5:38pm Edited: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 5:43pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | ... ugh, i dont need to get into this... If you really haev to know there is NO difference between the flooring from Euro Studios to the squash club, than it is from LTR to logans. There is only 1 level separating the 2 distinct places. anyways, the point of the matter is that LTR is in an unsuitable place inside that building for a rehersal space. You argue that Euro is also there(as I have before) but the difference is: http://www.eurostudios.ca/euroschedule.html look at that schedule and tell me where it would interfere with regular business hours? - Tue, 5 Oct 2010 11:30am | ||
| Codine Vandal User Info... | all i was trying to say is that euro studios is not directly above the bar,ie why no noise complaints. we used to jam at euro at 6pm till 12am and never got any complaints because it's in the top portion of the building,not directly above the seating area of an already established bar. - Tue, 5 Oct 2010 5:03pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | ok sure... 6pm-midnight is different from 11-5... - Tue, 5 Oct 2010 10:43pm | ||
| CL User Info... | Hey all! I've started a Facebook group to help spread awareness of this issue and get honest opinions about how to fix it. It's an open group, and I've invited Colin from Lemon Tree to join and invite anyone he wants. The group is here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=101108873290218 It'd be great to have a diversity of voices there so we can get to a mutually satisfying result. - Wed, 6 Oct 2010 12:46pm | ||
| CL User Info... | Euro Studios has always been on the third floor - Lemon Tree is on the second floor directly above the pub. - Wed, 6 Oct 2010 12:47pm | ||
| Lucius User Info... | There is one flight of stairs to get to LTR and two flights to get to Euro. Euro is above LTR and the BJJ place, not the squash club. Is this actually in debate?? Cheers, Lucius - Wed, 6 Oct 2010 1:50pm | ||
| Codine Vandal User Info... | thank you finally someone who's actually been there who can attest to the fact it's on the third floor like i've said all along. - Wed, 6 Oct 2010 3:11pm | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | I see dumb people...... - Wed, 6 Oct 2010 4:37pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | then if Euro is on the 3rd floor, how in the shit do we hear bands practicing at the squash club? Or better yet, the taiko drumming club? Where is this Malkovich floor!?!?! The stairs at the back of the building lead to the top floor yes*(the only entrance i've used to get to euro and a fucking pain in the ass those stairs are not only carrying your gear but, not sure if its changed, having to get the attention of people in the studio is a bitch lol), and when it was a health club it only had 2 floors(on the club side)... Or could this be a subtle hint that the soundproofing in the building IS ABSOLUTE SHIT lol Ok after looking at the building from the back end(during the day) now I see the third floor above LTR, but Im saying that the difference between LTR and Logans is no different from the squash club to Euro studios... noise bleeds like a fucking bastard. Try concentrating on playing a match only to hear the sounds of a taiko drumming class*(which is pretty cool; but not being up there and being below it kinda sucks. all you hear is rumblings and mostly HEAVY low end). But you see, the difference is that Euro doesn't book in the afternoons... mostly out of respect of the surrounding businesses*(they aren't struggling for money i guess) - Fri, 8 Oct 2010 3:37pm Edited: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 3:44pm | ||
| Codine Vandal User Info... | not with the rates they charge, we got a hole in the wall studio for 375 a month and i'm pretty sure it's more for the bigger one. the new owner is a dink.kicked us out for being 1 day late on our rent.mind you i was in lust at the time so maybe the negative stigma of the band traveled to him.who knows. - Fri, 8 Oct 2010 4:23pm | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... |  I was wondering if Colin could chime in and tell me if he did this to the floor/floating floor?(insulation to be added in pic) And If he doesn't know what to look at or what I am talking about then, we know the answer. (pic courtesy of... BB Jones ) - Fri, 8 Oct 2010 6:25pm Edited: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 6:33pm | ||
| steve User Info... | Grim, "Some information on our studio: -The entire build/ design, we worked with Pacific Audio Works for consulting - Each room features a room within a room construction for air space/soundproofing -special drywall used in the construction ("Surpress") - similar to quite rock -we dropped the ceiling (drywall) -all walls were built with specific angles to help eliminate standing waves -each room has double doors (airspace) -below the floors during our initial construction we laid extra insulation between the joyce for added insulation -hardwood floors Since the issues brought up by Logans. We hired a different audio consulting company for the floor. "Acoustics West" Floor: We added two separate acoustic layers (over our existing maple hardwood/insulation between the floors.) -this is done in order to decouple the entire floor -over top of this we laid carpet (hardwood still in the lounge/lobby) -Bass Risers for amps consisting of: drywall, rubber, insulation, plywood) 3 layers of each -extra acoustic panels for bass absorption -Double Doors" -LTR "management" ... doesnt look like they went so far as to install a fully floating floor. Unless they did the 'room within a room' properly. also I could me misinterpreting the 'two separate acoustic layers' statement. wondering though at the volumes that logans is experiencing if it would make that much difference. Also I think before I mentioned that the drums were on risers but upon re-reading the post it looks like just the bass amp. has anyone thought to ask acoustics west or pacific audio works what can be done. - Fri, 8 Oct 2010 6:34pm Edited: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 10:56pm | ||
| asswipe User Info... | what ever work ltr has done, however much money they have spent. IT DID NOT WORK. The bass vibrations had the glasses on the bar were rattling just the other day. We're not talking about barely audible, kinda annoying. we're talking LOUD, POUNDING BASS AND DRUMS. Too bad you spent all your daddies money, you got fleeced by the acoustic companies. But really, anyone with an ounce of common sense would know that sound-proofing a second floor room in a wooden structure would be really fucking hard, if not impossible. I guess if we can hear them, they can hear us. Hmm, how do they expect to record anything but the loudest bands, without interference from outside? - Fri, 15 Oct 2010 9:57pm | ||
| steve User Info... | I dont think its a recording studio any more asswipe... just a jam spot. or at least most of the time. - Sat, 16 Oct 2010 10:52am | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | I used to have two neighbors who hated each other. One of them bought a big stereo and faced it against the neighboring wall and cranked it for hours. It was funny. Maybe the solution is to have a volume war. - Sat, 16 Oct 2010 7:22pm | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | I think as a business,Logan's has to adhere to noise bylaws for a public gathering place,at the time these incidents are happening.Blasting what ever form of audio waves at the apposed intended victims would result in collateral damage...... Now I kind of sound like B.P. but without all the cut paste bylaw code book shit.... - Sat, 16 Oct 2010 10:43pm Edited: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 10:49pm | ||
| asswipe User Info... | Sunday afternoon, yesterday, the bass was rattling the light fixtures above the bar, the bass and percussion were clearly audible in the front dining room above the house stereo. colin was there, not once did he come down and have a listen. Does he not give a shit? Does he not want a good working relationship with a prominent music venue? Does he realize that his actions are having a detrimental affect on the enjoyment of the very people who might be inclined to rent time in his studio? I know some of you are his friends, if he is too much of a chicken shit to defend his position without his daddy to do the the talking for him( other than an email saying he "has hired the services of a top lawyer") perhaps you could explain it to me. Did you know that the VERY first time I ever spoke with him over the phone, politely asking if there was any chance to turn the bass down. And I was VERY polite. He said, and I quote," You are not to talk to me, you are not to phone here, and you are not to talk to my clients. Got it?" Then hung up on me. The first time Chris Logan spoke to him regarding the noise levels colin ran, yes ran, away and came back with his daddy to do the talking for him. Anyone who knows Chris knows that he is extremely non-violent, hardly ever even raises his voice and is always looking for reasonable solutions to problems. colin=chicken shit. colin, if you would like to come down to Peteracs gym and settle this like men I will be there , anytime buddy. Just say when. You have a couple inches on me and out weigh me so you got no excuse. - Mon, 18 Oct 2010 11:12am | ||
| Jl User Info... | Im pretty sure calling him out on a fight isn't gunna solve any problems. like i've said before, Logan's has been there too long; LTR has everything to prove to the music community that they are a viable solution to jamming/practicing in your basement. Which they have not. What they have shown, is that they're owner knows little to nothing about business... and is sponsored by his parents. Business' like these come and go... dont worry about Logan's; it ain't going anywhere. And what of these claims to be a recording studio, etc...? That failed already? I guess its just a matter of time - Mon, 18 Oct 2010 11:51am | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | Wow...This hole thing would have worked out(possibly)if Colin grew a set,and just talked out a solution,Like no practice in the days before 6 pm. or something that would work for both party's.To think that LTR has to stay open during these hours as a practice studio to make the money is ridicules.Most people have jobs in the day and can only practice at night....so what's the deal......oh wait,,is it Colin's band playing at those times maybe....? All non working dudes spending daddy's money...? Still no reason to say "WE are fucking over a established venue for the music seen here in Vic ,and we don't give a fuck". Nice one LTR.....we will not forget this LTR fiasco. - Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:45pm | ||
| steve User Info... | out of all this.. one thing recently has really 'irked' me more than most.. So LTR is putting on 'shows' seemingly a series.. not unlike what I am doing with Runway-Studios presents... You'd figure they'd do it at Logans.. perfect fucking sense... but nope.. Vic Events centre... Really.. ?.. you have a great venue that you share a building with and you're not willing to support your neighbor... help build the community and the scene.. that left a bad taste in my mouth. Jan.7th Logans PUb.. Ruwnay-Studios presents #3... Live vic party? promotores share goes into the servers tip jar.... they're hurting when the business and tips drop cause of the noise problems. I have been asked/approached a number of times recently if I was interested in some kind of cross promotion or collaboration with LTR.. I would love to.. it would be great for both businesses.. but I cant.. Not while its being run like this. - Tue, 19 Oct 2010 12:38pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | its easy to get into a venue that you have to pay for ;) which is probably why the 'rents footed the bill for the events center too! Shit, at this rate the folks will be renting out the SOFA! lulz... you are right; i am surely jesting. - Tue, 19 Oct 2010 1:16pm | ||
| steve User Info... |  being threatened with a baseball bat by a visible shaking Colin Piazza... then having his Dad show up and warn me that he's much like 'Tony Soprano'... all for saying Hi. Absolutely unreal. Chris, I feel sorry for you my friend.. based on what I experienced I believe you are up against a very emotional and mentally unstable individual here. Colin, let me know if you want the bat back. You seemed pretty unstable and I probably did you favour by removing it from the back of your truck... wouldn't want assault charges on top of all this. - Wed, 20 Oct 2010 4:45pm | ||
| CL User Info... | WTF? What happened, Steve? - Wed, 20 Oct 2010 6:39pm | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | Okay....asswipe ,next time there is noise upstairs...CALL THE COPS.And do it ever time there is noise that bothers your customers. Hell Steve , you should call then now...after that shit.... - Wed, 20 Oct 2010 6:51pm | ||
| steve User Info... | CL.. to be honest.. I am not sure what happened.. Shit got crazy fast and I am glad that I was able to remain calm and polite. ... I thought maybe I did say something Rude that deserved the sort of reaction I experienced today. From offering an introduction and a handshake and to be met with instant and alarmingly out of control anger and hostility by both father and son.. I must have done or said something? So I read through all my posts in the 4 or 5 threads involving this situation. I honestly cant find anything that I can see as at all out of line and worthy of threats and hostility. If anyone can find some thing I said .. please do show me... I am really puzzled by what happened today. I cant remember who it was.. go vic or evange.. whoever..said something like 'rather than bash the guy on here take it up with him in person'... I thought about you right before I extended my arm and offered my name... lets just say it didnt work out how you would have anticipated. Grim, if I put you on the guestlist will you come out to logans on the 28th? - Wed, 20 Oct 2010 10:37pm | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | Why ....? Are you going to jump me with a baseball bat...? Just kidding..... sure ..the bands are not my thing ..but if there is chicks there ...I'm in.... You know , when someone says that he's much like 'Tony Soprano'. You know you are dealing with a delusional personality.Why in the hell would they say/ do what they did.....Maybe they feel like you are taking the lively hood from them.And you know what a delusional people do,when they think that they're much like 'The Sopranos'. They do dumb shit that could get them thrown in jail,or worse . Where is B.P. on this one....I would have thought he would be all over this. Not worth the air to say there names anymore...good going Col-ah....like I said ,not worth the air...... - Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:41pm Edited: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:47pm | ||
| Go Victoria Go! User Info... | Hey steve, go jump off a bridge... Oh no, I guess I shouldn't say that or you may actually do it... Realy???... Did you actually approach Colin and expect to have a normal conversation??? Are you kidding??? Does anyone think that that would go well??? I have no idea what went on with this interaction, but it's clearly obvious that you (steve/runway) are one of the most outspoken people on the LTR/Logans situation. It's possible that you have posted more times than Chris Logan and his staff put together regarding this subject. And although you believe that you are posting innocent and meaningful statements, I think you are mistaken. You may choose your wording wisely, but to someone (like myself and I'm sure others) that have no attachment whatsoever to runway studios or Logans Pub or even Lemontree, it seems like you are just "stoking the fire" and antagonizing the situation. I really hope that you didn't actually go into Colin's place of business to confront him, and then possibly steal his property, regardless of how right you think you were by doing it. Because that sounds like HARASMENT. What it really looks like is that you are sticking your nose in other peoples business, and maybe you shouldn't... What are you helping anyways? If anything, all your doing is self promoting through a situation that doesn't have anything to do with you. Yeah we all know that there is an issue between Logans and LTR, but how do you fit in here? You've made it clear that your out in Sidney and are in no way competition with LTR. I think you should really think about letting Logan's/LTR/and the landlord figure this out... No matter how bleak that seems...I'm just not sure how you have anything to do with it. - Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:04am | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | Threatening someone with a baseball bat is way out of line for a couple of posts on a website ...come on.And are you going to tell me you wouldn't try(in same situation) and say come on down to my place ..it's in Sidney, but come on down ...No harm in that. And if Steve did go there...that's what a man would do ...not a child. If you think Steve was wrong in doing so..then you are just as delusional as those guys GVG . - Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:52am Edited: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:54am | ||
| steve User Info... | .. go jump off a bridge? Yeah!!!... I did introduce myself to Colin and expected to have a normal conversation!!! I am not kidding!!! I thought it would go over better than it did!!! Sorry for posting on a public message board. I will keep my thoughts and opinions to myself from now on. I don't know how many times I posted over the last 3 months, didnt take that long to read (50% didnt even have anything to do with the situation). Thank you, I do choose my words carefully. I find that If I think before I speak and speak before I act.. it helps. Sorry that you see my posts as stoking the fire, I agree I have very little to do directly with the situation (prior to today) and perhaps underestimated the weight of my posts in your eyes. I did not go into LTR, nor did I confront him. I was meeting someone at Logans, it was closed so i was waiting outside. The bat is a whole story unto itself and will be returned promptly. Harassment, I don't think so. Again, sorry for posting on the subject.. who ever you are. (to be clear colin never raised the bat or made like he would hit me.. just made it known that he had a bat with him which i see as a threatening.. not necessarily intimidating but..) - Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:59am Edited: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 1:04am | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | Non the less ,intimidation was the intention. Use your words Colin.....Use your words ,and be a man .And don't try and be a tough guy about it..... It just shows how "uncomfortable" you are ....I am sure all involved are just as uncomfortable as you,and are compelled in reconciling this as reasonable men. If you can't find it in you to be on the same level ,then there will never be NO solution to this situation.Give it a try...we all talk shit on here sometimes...don't take it the wrong way...we are all mostly descent people. - Thu, 21 Oct 2010 1:39am Edited: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 1:44am | ||
| Codine Vandal User Info... | lol this shit is making me laugh.i'm about the the second biggest douchebag on here next to grim and i don't even get threatened with bats, maybe the occasional kick to the teeth or an ass whoppin but not bats yet lol.i guess i'm not trying hard enough....;) - Thu, 21 Oct 2010 7:41am | ||
| J User Info... | trust me; both of you are doing just fine... you dont even need to try :) - Thu, 21 Oct 2010 9:41am | ||
| steve User Info... | Go vic.. go through.. read my 12 or so posts.. tell me which parts are rude and disrespectful... tell me what I said that would make it soo unreasonable for me to introduce myself to colin... shit, the last 4 or 5 were in response to your handicapped approach to trolling the board. I am starting to wonder, if you're not associated with LTR... What do you even have to do with the situation.. maybe you also feel threatened by me operating a business.. maybe you run some failed studio or tried your hand at promotion? again, if you have nothing to do with the situation.. why not take your own advice and shut up. you're not adding anything and where as I at least make an attempt (most the time) to be polite, logical and reasonable.. you are a complete waste, nothing positive contributed.. and all anonymously.. like you got something to hide. Talk about stoking the fire. - Thu, 21 Oct 2010 9:45am | ||
| Codine Vandal User Info... | jl, i aim to please. Sons of Nova recording this saturday at Runway Studios. Let you guys get a heads up on it so you can start the shit talk now. another person coming on taking business from lemon tree.boo fucking hoo. i am encountering this very same situation of who was first, the chicken or the egg, with some of the other people i know. my opinion on it all is if the chicken is good and the eggs are fine, who fucking cares either way it's all the same animal and whichever you like best will be the one you choose, nothing will make you like one more than the other,especially some nerdy internet blogger advertising his business(no offence steve) or some chat room troll slagging the establishment. Get a life all of you and go about your business. if logans rocks then people are still gonna go there and if lemon tree is a viable jamming/recording solution people will go there. Let the people actually using the services of these establishments decide whether or not they get repeat business.i agree that lemon tree could be a bit more considerate and open to suggestions in their business practices but i don't own either logan's, lemon tree , the building or any business for that matter so why would i attempt to tell them how to run theirs? Think about that people. anyone who thinks they got a better idea, start your own studio/bar and see how easy it is meeting everyones demands while still turning a profit. i haven't weighed in on this because i didn't have anything to offer, i don't know how to solve either problem,not my place. it's also none of your places to try and dictate how someone else's business should run.Good or bad ,they are both business' trying to succeed. i don't think logans is going anywhere and i would bet that lemon tree will probably fail anyway as most business' fail. no offence to any of the parties involved that's just statistics. - Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:13am | ||
| Jl User Info... | I think you miss the point... the chicken isn't fine and the eggs have gone SOUR!! Otherwise this thread wouldn't be here. Its not so much that people are weighing in on how to solve the problem. We're basically saying that LTR is in an inappropriate space to use as a rehersal space. Im sure even his "tony soprano" guido of a father can attest to that... Its not hard notice. As I've said since the beginning; Logan's will prevail no matter what, they have what LTR could never in a million years amass... a loyal following and customer base. And besides, its a messageboard; we're here to share what we think... if you dont like it, then leave. - Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:24am | ||
| Codine Vandal User Info... | this brings to mind my favourite saying :Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink - Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:50am | ||
| Jl User Info... | well, thats your opinion of the matter... and your point is? - Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:16am | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | My opinion smells like roses...... And everyone knows that the eggs came first. Dinosaurs lade eggs way before there was a chicken around. I think people are stupid to use that analogy. Like the Glass half full/empty.....If you put beer in all the way to the top,and drink some...it's half empty...if you only fill it up half way ,then it's half full......geese get it right people. And I have never been in any kind of altercation ,from my posts on here....Cuz I am a hell of a nice guy if you meet me.But on here that's a different story. I do have something to do with LTR...I was going to jam there at the beginning of the year...Was promised a place to jam in a couple of weeks,turned into a couple mouths..So I asked for my money back...took a couple more mouths for that too.I am soo glad I never did jam there.... - Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:40pm | ||
| asswipe User Info... | I guess if I had mortgaged my house to pay for my son's pipe dream recording studio I would be scared too and say shit like " I'm like Tony Spoprano" I actually kinda feel sorry for Mr Piazza. Steve I think you should file a police report, that is a threat to your life and or physical safety. Having a baseball bat in your vehicle is considered a concealed weapon,( from personal experience) unless you have ball and a glove or can otherwise prove that you are going to or coming from a baseball game/practice ( wich I was). - Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:55pm | ||
| steve User Info... | Codine, for what its worth I dont think I ever told LTR how to run their business or slagged em or anything.. simply stated my opinions and took part in the discussion.... and we're recording on sunday, not saturday. Colin, you can pick the bat up at the cop shop after tomorrow. - Thu, 21 Oct 2010 3:14pm | ||
| ::Saint:: User Info... | Whoa whoa whoa.. I think I missed something here.. Colin and his dad threatened you with some kind of supposed mobster retaliation? For saying 'hi' in public place? What in the hell is going on with these people -- even if you were being incendiary about the LTR/Logan's fiasco .. the conversation is about some shoddy business practices by a recording studio .. there is no physical threat implied by any of it.. I can understand being angry that you have.. let's say.. re-directed some potential business from them.. but you're just a better choice, end of line, and LTR has been working steadily at destroying their own credibility, so what do they expect to happen? ..makes me wonder whether they might try showing up on the 28th ... - Thu, 21 Oct 2010 5:38pm Edited: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 5:40pm | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | Hey....This is just a message board.How can you destroy your credibility and shun people away from ever dealing with you....? Could never happen. (grimlord recollects) Wait ,....never mind. - Thu, 21 Oct 2010 9:30pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | meh w/e... the studio is going downhill anyways... let it fall. Colin, next business adventure; finance on your own, its not fair that your parents are still accountable for your failures! - Fri, 22 Oct 2010 10:42am | ||
| steve User Info... | Saint, I doubt they'd show up.. kid wont answer phone calls and cant even keep it together through a simple introduction and handshake without getting the adrenaline shakes and devolve into some kind of raging child. now, they may try and cut power to the building right before the show.. or stink bomb the place or be really loud upstairs. Whatever, thats their business. I stand strong that I have done nothing to aggravate this situation to the point it reached the other day. If they want to dig themselves deeper into the shit hole they've created then so be it. Respect, communication and some understanding and this situation could have been over as quick as it started. *Colin, if you want your bat back its at the cop shop on quadra.. just ask about your file and they should be able to get it for you. - Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:39am Edited: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 3:54pm | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | I think at this point...LTR has buried it's self . It will be hard to dig out of that hole ,in this town.But it's still new and fresh in people minds....Perfect time to fix things, the right way. What you say LTR? A simple heart felt apology would go along way... - Sat, 23 Oct 2010 12:49am | ||
| steve User Info... | ... Sons of Nova @ Runway-Studios. - Tue, 26 Oct 2010 8:17am | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | This is now spam......in a can......yuck. - Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:52am | ||
| steve User Info... | MC? You coming Thursday?.. What name should I put on the list? - Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:57am | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | Nah...thanks for thinking of me though....just not into these bands. - Tue, 26 Oct 2010 12:29pm | ||
| Codine Vandal User Info... | We aren't playing don't worry - Tue, 26 Oct 2010 4:36pm | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | Well ...sign me up.. No, I shouldn't use the word hate,when describing the fingers on chalkboard sound of your band in the past,but....This new recording sound hopeful.You may just sway me yet..... - Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:46pm | ||
| Trevcore User Info... | Heh. Yeah..........cause, "swaying" the Grimlord is such a tough job - Wed, 27 Oct 2010 11:05pm | ||
| asswipe User Info... | This was news to me. Probably will be to you too. Colin did not do ANY soundproofing on the floor. Only risers and pads. Clearly having no respect or consideration for the pub downstairs. I have spoken to someone who was employed by the company LTR hired to do the construction. Colin spent lots of money soundproofing the walls and ceiling but none on the floor. He would not spend the money on the floor, I guess he ran out or something. The guy I spoke to said Colins dad came down and put a stop on it. So, from the very beginning Colin has been fucking Logan's and knows it. That is why he has been acting like a scared little child and refusing to let any outside help into the studio to work towards solving the problem. Because it CAN"T be fixed since the fundamental work was never done. Cheers everybody, and fuck you Colin. - Sat, 30 Oct 2010 6:26pm | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | I was just wondering what LTR was thinking when building the place....That it's in a building with a bar and one other rehearsal space...? So we will sound proof the whole thing ,except the floor cuz ...there's a bar down there, they make noise. Could this be the simple Non-monotonic logic behind all this ciaos...?? - Sat, 30 Oct 2010 6:48pm | ||
| Tyler User Info... | Are there any legal avenues or anything relating to noise bylaws between tenants in a commercial space? I'd think that's what should be looked into. I do not have any knowledge of the legal details of a noisy commercial space so that's as much as I can say. The situation is unfortunate and both businesses are positive resources in the Victoria music scene. - Sat, 6 Nov 2010 1:52pm Edited: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 1:53pm | ||
| Rob.W User Info... | asswipe, the "news" in your last post is actually a bunch of bullshit. I'm re-reading your last post, trying to find any element of truth in there, and I'm drawing a blank. Perhaps we could tape you to the ceiling of logans and allow your body to absorb some of the bass frequency? - Sat, 6 Nov 2010 9:02pm | ||
| asswipe User Info... | Hey Rob, the news I speak of is the FACT that the floor wasn't de-coupled or otherwise properly sound proofed. Risers and pads do not equal sound proofing. If you have FACTS to prove my "BULLSHIT" please present them. Second point: You basically admit that there is bass frequency ( not to mention the drums ) bleeding through the floor/ceiling. If there wasn't you wouldn't need to tape me to the ceiling to absorb it, now would you? - Sat, 6 Nov 2010 9:48pm Edited: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 9:49pm | ||
| CL User Info... | Hey Rob! The floor wasn't soundproofed - seriously. That's the truth. I can't speak for Colin's state of mind or what his plan was but, flat out: no soundproofing in the floor. And the noise downstairs is mental. Really! You should check it out some time - it's nuts! Cheers! - Sat, 6 Nov 2010 10:24pm | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | You know 'Rob', I hate it when people talk ,and try and sound all smart,when they know nothing about what they are talking about. But what can be expected of children .You make the Gimlord look like a professor of science. Thank you.... it's good to see someone taking the retard reigns from me. - Sun, 7 Nov 2010 12:32am Edited: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 12:35am | ||
| steve User Info... | I imagine the work that LTR has or hasnt done would be quite apparent when Logans opens/opened up their ceiling the bar to do their part to help the problem.. Lies are bad, mmkay... - Sun, 7 Nov 2010 1:48am | ||
| jonny b. swell User Info... | Gotta agree with Rob W. on this one. I used to frequent LTR for a space to play, convenient location and all. We left because we diodn't want to get snagged up in this fiasco. We were at one point removed from our regular room while a bunch of guys ripped up the floor, put down an extra level of flooring across the whole room, then put the carpet back down. The whole room was raised a few inches. I saw this with my own eyes over the course of a week, before and after, and I even got some not so dry caulking on my gig bag. I'm not taking sides here, but Rob W. is right. Regardless of the effect after they ripped up the floor, they did something to it that looked pretty extensive. Sounds like MC K.N.Z. has all the facts? Please enlighten us with all this insider info you have. (happy birthday) - Thu, 18 Nov 2010 7:26pm | ||
| CL User Info... | Hey Jonny - I think a pad was put ON the floor - nothing was ever put IN the floor. As the guys on here who have built studios will confirm, putting something ON the floor just won't work to control the noise, due to vibrations. For bands rehearsing full-on, the room basically has to be decoupled from the rest of the building, otherwise it just travels through the solid materials. Anyone who has been downstairs in Logan's when a loud band is rehearsing upstairs will testify to how bad it gets. Saturday and Sunday afternoons are good times to hear it. Cheers! - Thu, 18 Nov 2010 8:50pm | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | If you look at the pic I posted..you will see what Cl is talking about...not only do you have to decouple it from the floor,you have to do the same for the walls at the floor level.Put rubber sound absorbing pads(approximately 3" square,1/12" thick) underneath the sub floor(good 12") to separate and dampen noise.Isolate the sub floor,sheet with plywood and carpet.This was not done at lemon tree otherwise there would be significantly less noise downstairs. - Thu, 18 Nov 2010 9:02pm | ||
| steve User Info... | .. Johnny, good info there. It would be interesting to find out who did the work/consultation for the sound proofing/insulation.. nice to know who not to hire. a big point that needs to be remembered is regardless of what was or wasnt done, its not working. And the simplest solution that costs the least amount of money and has immediate effect (as CL and the crew can attest from last saturday afternoon), communication, is being neglected and avoided. I have a few friends that rehearse there and they have never been asked to be mindful of the neighbours or had the noise issue brought to their attention. - Fri, 19 Nov 2010 9:27am | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | Someone needs to kick that little punks ass....Fucking week spineless little bastard.It's the only way he will get the point.After all his dad said they are like the Soprano's, a little violence is all they know.I am not saying it will happen ,but piss off enough people in the music seen,your bound to have trouble come looking for you.Just a thought for you Colin.It could all go away if you where any kind of a stand up guy ,you would talk and try and work this out.But we all know the truth about you now. - Fri, 19 Nov 2010 10:28am Edited: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 10:28am | ||
| CL User Info... | Naw, we're not down with that. It wouldn't solve anything. Violence breeds violence, and it's just wrong. We learn to live together or we die alone in the long run. - Fri, 19 Nov 2010 1:43pm Edited: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 1:44pm | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | I know.....It's getting retarded now it's been going on for so long.....Someone is going to snap.And I just get pissed off at the blatant disregard on the part of LTR to not give a fuck.So,we all should not give a fuck about what happens to LTR.You get what you put out there LTR.Just saying....things can go really bad for that place if they keep this up.Not that I would have anything to do with it,I just think if I'm getting this mad and have nothing convecting me to the place anymore,then someone who does should be way more mad then me.Little kids should not pretend to be all gown up when they shure as shit have a lot of growing up to do. - Fri, 19 Nov 2010 1:53pm | ||
| Trevcore User Info... |  | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | How do you fuckin piss??? Like all over yourself......? There would be no reason to live at this point. - Sun, 21 Nov 2010 9:52am | ||
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