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DOWN WITH UNIONS!
| Message Board > Controversy and Quarantine > DOWN WITH UNIONS! |
| BBJones User Info... | Who's with me? For you free-money-union lovers, you'll be happy to note that unskilled positions are now up to $18/hr at your local libraries. Way to go pinheads. I hope you make a lot of money at your job so you pay lots of taxes. "Another key issue in the dispute was "wages for pages," the people that reshelf books. All were auxiliary workers. In the new agreement, nine full-time senior page positions will be created. They'll start at $17.80 an hour. Other pages will remain auxiliary positions, and will also receive a pay increase. When the lock-out happened, the auxiliary pages were paid $11.03 an hour. When they return to work under the new agreement, they'll start at $12.13 an hour." How exactly does one become a senior bookshelf restocker? Can I go to school for this? Is this a registered trade where I can transfer my uber skills to another province or country? Idjits. - Thu, 3 Apr 2008 12:57pm Edited: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 1:01pm | ||
| RubberBox User Info... | Sounds like its basically the same as working at Blockbuster but you earn twice the pay. - Thu, 3 Apr 2008 1:29pm | ||
| ciao User Info... | Trolling on a Thursday afternoon, are we? Another way to look at this is that working at Blockbuster is basically like working at the library, but for half the pay. Who deserves that? Unionize Blockbuster. . - Thu, 3 Apr 2008 4:33pm Edited: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 4:34pm | ||
| GINO User Info... |  | ||
| gene User Info... | BTW nice user info Linc. - Fri, 4 Apr 2008 5:18pm | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | I like money. - Sat, 5 Apr 2008 7:12am | ||
| Jl User Info... | Gino, nobody said that you dont bust your ass to earn what you make... BUT, coming from the otherside of the coin(a happy non-union worker); I see alot more union workers bitching about wages/cost of living etc... Even as a non-union employee, if I found my job less than satisfactory... i would then look for a new job. Its simple. I dont bitch, moan or complain about my job and never will, simply because Im happy where I am and feel Im rightfully compensated for the amount of work/effort I put in. Its easy to say that your happy as a union worker; but when the shit hits the fan its always the union workers letting us know how unfair it is to work for 20$/hr stocking books. - Sat, 5 Apr 2008 4:02pm Edited: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 4:02pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | it's not that union members get somethign they don't deserve, it's that the non union workers are getting fucked. - Sat, 5 Apr 2008 6:11pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | i dont feel "screwed over" by union workers at all; im happy with my job and quite frankly in my opinion Im compensated for what I deserve with the amount of work I do. Like I said above; if its not enuff, then find some where else to work! - Sun, 6 Apr 2008 10:24am | ||
| round em up User Info... | Stocking books on a shelf has skills that warrant minimum wage. Just because the employer is in the public sector soes not mean that they should be blackmailed into paying double digit hourly wages for duties that a trained ape could do (and probalby do better without a whole lot of bitching or dogfucking). Wage should be allowed to be based on skills and quilifications. The consumer/taxpayer should not have to subsidize someone's earnings or lifestyle. Attempts to legislate wage equity/equility are the same and are as detrimental as attempts to legislate morality. - Sun, 6 Apr 2008 10:37am | ||
| ciao User Info... | I find it appalling that you would wish the poverty of a single-digit wage on anyone, and that you would show such disrespect for the work people do. May you spend eternity taking spelling lessons from a well-paid, immoral, trained ape. - Sun, 6 Apr 2008 10:30pm Edited: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 10:51pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Lofl. I thought it somewhat ironic Roundemup's poor grammar, and grade five spelling. - Sun, 6 Apr 2008 11:58pm | ||
| BBJones User Info... | How about as an adult, you develop actual skill and build a career instaed of assuming you should have the right to walk in off the sidewalk and be paid (not earn) $20/hr. Minimum wage are for kids. Adults that choose to stay working in a teenager's job deserve any poverty that comes along with that. Moron. - Mon, 7 Apr 2008 8:01am | ||
| Dr.DoomXXX User Info... | If some one (of any age) is working hard for their money and paying their taxes it takes a real goof to try and make them feel shitty for it or tell them they deserve poverty. - Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:12am | ||
| dumpstermesh User Info... | Agreed Doom. What BB isn't considering is that teenagers (as I'm sure you'll recall) don't tend to stick with a job for more than a few years before moving on. The cost of training and going through the hiring process is something that can determine the rate of pay for that position. Don't even get me started on how much trained apes cost these days! - Mon, 7 Apr 2008 1:25pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | I spent 45% of my day sitting around having a break today. Unions feel good to me. Suckers. - Mon, 7 Apr 2008 8:31pm | ||
| Dr.DoomXXX User Info... | FINE! Next time we meet the brews are on you \m/ - Tue, 8 Apr 2008 2:46pm | ||
| BBJones User Info... | If you're making $20/hr at some entry level job that requires zero edcucation and/or training then you shouldn't need me to say anyting. You should feel guilty enough all by yourself. In most sectors, it requires 6-12 months of job specific education to make that wage. There is no room for inflated salaries outside of the public sector, unionized or not. And dumps, I understand the costs of hiring, re-hiring and training quite well. It still doesn't mean you should be able to stay in an entry level position for your entire life and end up making big money just becuase you didn't quit. There are low paying jobs for a reason. - Wed, 9 Apr 2008 7:13am Edited: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 7:19am | ||
| dumpstermesh User Info... | But they are probably looking for "career oriented" people for those positions. Why do you have it out for decent wages? - Wed, 9 Apr 2008 10:55am | ||
| Jl User Info... | "But they are probably looking for "career oriented" people for those positions. Why do you have it out for decent wages?" because of people defending the rights of an entry level burger flipper or SHELF STOCKER being paid more than what the jobs worth. Its pretty simple, you CANNOT make a career of stocking shelves(grocery store or library) or flipping burgers... you simply cant with the inflated cost of living these days. Maybe 20 years ago a minimum wage job was "just enough"; but that "just enough" doesn't cut it these days. And its that motto of working "just enough" that kills us. No I dont feel its right to lambast someone who works HARD(ie, laborers, rig workers etc... or someone that slaved through school and now carries a huge debt to WORK Off). - Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:41pm Edited: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:41pm | ||
| Pierce User Info... | I am all for Unions. I am 31, i have a pension. Its indexed. Yeah baby. FREE MONEY! I made well over 30$ an hour for 12 years. Never would i find those kinds of benefits elsewhere. How is this wrong? I worked for money, nothing else. If there were other reasons to go to work, other than for income, then there could be an argument. Other than that, Unions rule. - Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:26pm Edited: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:28pm | ||
| NOISE NOT BOMBS User Info... |  Secondly,as far as just finding another job, what if you like your job, and the only issue you have is that it is not paying enough? I like my job... Unions are the reason we have over time, 8 hr work days, health and safety regulations, and so on, the reality is not that these people are getting over paid, the reality is that every one else is getting underpaid. Cool aid worked out a liveable wage to $14/hr... so no job should pay less than that, however I don't even get that, and I work for a decent company, and have been there over a year. - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 1:00am Edited: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 1:01am | ||
| Danielle User Info... | Hmmmm.....has anyone ever worked in a library? Returning library books to their proper order in a library using the dewey decimal classification system takes alot more brains and skill than putting cans of chicken noodle soup on the shelf labelled "chicken noodle soup". I wouldn't want to do that all day and I couldn't survive on $17.80 an hour. Unions came into existence in Canada 100 years ago to remedy an injuistice. Since that time however, legislation took over that role, making the benefits of working under the protection of a union much less necessary. Hours of work, overtime pay, holidays, etc. are governed by the labour relations code and the labour standards act. Not Unions. Personally I have no desire to hand off a monthly fee to an organization that may at some point make decisions on behalf regarding my employment or hinder my ability to advance at my own pace. My salary is not limited to any rule or regulation. I am free to negotiate directly with my employer for whatever amount I feel I am worth. People seek what they need. If a person had few needs and "career" status was not valued by them they who says they couldn't remain the fry cook at McDonalds for 30 years. Some people just don't give a shit. Fuck you people can be so judgmental sometimes. - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 6:30am | ||
| Dr.DoomXXX User Info... | Sounds like a judgment call to me, and who the fuck are you calling "you people"? - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:12am | ||
| ciao User Info... | D - It's so nice that your employer will negotiate with you personally, and I wish you continued success at this - but unfortunately for many, many people, employers have no obligation whatsoever to negotiate with employees, unless the employees are represented by a union. And, sorry, the argument that 'labour laws are all fine and dandy so unions aren't needed anymore' is a very old and fallacious bit of anti-union propaganda that we are persistently invited to believe. Pshaw, I say. Our current minimum wage isn't benefiting employees at all, it's forcing good people into poverty at best. - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 2:21pm | ||
| BBJones User Info... | You union lovers are still off your rocker. I'm all for fair starting wages and I'm all for there being some level of equality. But c'mon, you people are going on like every single working person regardless of their age or experience should have the RIGHT to make over $40k/year? What's with you? What do you mean "well what if I like my job?" Well good for you, that is one of the hardest things to find in life, a job you like. But you want that job to now pay you like it was somehow more valuable that it is? Why? Becuase you like it? Becuase you will stay in it for life if you keep getting raises all the time? Unreal. Unions abuse their power. It is no different than before unions came into existance. Then, employers abused their power. Now it is reversed. Too many people seek out union jobs simply because they are union jobs. And I can guarantee you it is NOT becuase unions did away with unsafe and unfair working conditions. As I've said before, unions are still needed in dangerous industries (forestry, mining etc). Now those people deserve a union and they deserve to have someone fighting hard for their saftey, health and well being. But the shelf stocker who knows the dewy decimal system needs to earn $40k/year? And needs a union to force the government to pay it? Gee, I wonder why they didn't earn tha much before... Hmmmmm. I guess all you unmotived adults need somewhere to spend your days.... - Mon, 14 Apr 2008 8:25am Edited: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 8:26am | ||
| round em up User Info... | Hit the nail solid on the head with that one. If minimum wage is sending good people into poverty then those people should get off their ass and get some training that warrants a good wage. Anybody who willingly stays in a minimum wage job is either a teenager,stupid, lazy, or all of thr above. There has never been a better time to find a well paying job in a satisfying profesion, and there is NO excuse other than laziness and/or lack of motivation or sack to get off your ass to better yourself without asking for the nanny state to do it for you.I see skill shortages at every level, in every industry or field, whether it be healthcare, trades, techwork or whatever, and lots of those employers will bend over backwards to accomodate new workers and their training. If people are not capaple of seizing these oppourtunities, then they deserve to make minimum wage, and those who invested time, education, money and balls to get skills that are in demand deserve to make a better wage and have a higher standard of living. It's that fucking simple. Stop expecting someone else, wether it be the taxpayer or the government, to subsidise your lifestyle if you're pushing a broom or stocking books on a shelf. - Mon, 14 Apr 2008 4:58pm Edited: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 5:00pm | ||
| ciao User Info... | Why not show the world how easy it is to better yourself, by improving your spelling? - Mon, 14 Apr 2008 8:04pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | It's no that their abusing power, it's that they're actually getting a fair wage. You should know that for every 10 bucks you get, your boss is getting 20. unions level the playing field a bit. It Makes the workers into a represented collective, as opposed to a bunch of individual "little guys" who can be rid of just as quick as they were hired. No offense man, but you need to give your head a shake. - Mon, 14 Apr 2008 9:37pm | ||
| round em up User Info... | Well ciao, if I had a dollar for everytime someone on this site resorted to picking out spelling errors in a debate as opposed to offering tangible arguments for one, I'd be able to subsidize your living single handidly to the extent that you would cease to be a burden on society and those around you, and might even prove to be more lucrative than your hobby, pointing out spelling mistakes on a message board... Pull up your big boy underwear lads, stop blaming others for people's mistakes and making excuses for those who are too stupid,lazy or indecisive to make smart decisions regarding their income potential in a literal golden age of employment oppurtunity, and then expect hardworking people like me to help pay for them when the don't do it. Maybe you two should head over to Hornby Island where you can dance naked in the wildflowers with hippies,work the fields, all live in the same style tent and eat the same ammount of wheat grains and sprouts, and get the same ammount of shit out of it as the guy who sits in a hammock all day smoking weed... - Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:54pm Edited: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:59pm | ||
| ciao User Info... | reu You should be aware that I've just finished working an 80-hour week at a fairly decent wage, so it's likely that I pay more taxes than you. I'm quite happy that my taxes pay for decent public sector wages. Sorry to slag your spelling, but you're harsh on low-wage earners and that really annoys me. - Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:35pm | ||
| sumyungai User Info... | Andrew, for every twenty five dollars I pull in, my boss pulls in $100. I have absolutely no problem with this whatsoever. He supplies the vehicle, the premises, the infrastructure (office, phones, computers, faxes, girls!), he pays the bills, fixes my van when the transmission goes, chases down the contracts, works sixteen hour days. I've run a company, and had up to thirty- two employees. Now I work eight hours a day, collect a wage, and go home and forget all about it. I get to sleep at night. Unions have had their run, but like mastodons, must now exit the stage. We live in an 'enlightened' society, with rights and liberties. If you don't like a job, get a new one. If an employer is an asshole, he will lose any quality people he (or she) might attract and ultimately the business will fail. Let's hear it for free enterprise! - Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:43pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | After reading this thread, I'm left with one question. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH DANCING NAKED ON HORNBY? - Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:19am | ||
| Dr.DoomXXX User Info... | Well if it's an ugly person dancing naked that's just offensive and gross. - Tue, 15 Apr 2008 8:08am | ||
| ciao User Info... | People who are ugly have only themselves to blame, and they should feel guilty for not trying. Any trained ape can be beautiful, right? - Tue, 15 Apr 2008 2:00pm | ||
| round em up User Info... | Well ciao, I pay lots of taxes too, and I realize it's a personel choice in regards to one's feelings about how they are spent, if you don't have a problem with your taxes subsidizing public sector wages that are based on collective bargining as opposed to the skill and demand of the work, then I respect that position, athough I do not agree with it. I do not mean to sound harsh on low wage workers. I spent years pigging dishes and digging ditches for little more than minimum wage, so I've been there, and I have great respect for anyone who works for a living ,period. But I also came up in the school of hard knocks, where working hard, showing up on time , getting some training,showing intelligence and motivation, was the way to better your position in life and in your income, not blackmailing inflated wages from the government in "collective bargining" simply because it's the government. If you truly want out of a minimum wage job, the time has never been better than now.Don't want to earn minimum wage? Don't feel that the wage is respectful?Don't like it's limited lifestyle?Then do something about it to change it.Society is screaming for skilled workers, and many companies, union or not, are willing to be financially ass raped to fork out the money for training at no cost to the worker. If a person is unwilling to take those steps and chooses to live a lifestyle based on minimum wage, then I'm sorry, but I don't wan't to hear them complain about how hard it is. With all due respect for those in union jobs stocking shelves for 20+ dollars an hour, those skills simply do not warrant that wage, and it is absurd to to expect the wage simply because it comes from this seemingly bottomless pit of money that is the government.While some of you who pay lots of taxes feel it's fair for your tax money to be pissed away propping up inflated salaries, I think it's absurd and serves as a slap in the face to anyone who has had to work hard and strive for the life they have. - Tue, 15 Apr 2008 4:45pm Edited: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 9:27pm | ||
| NOISE NOT BOMBS User Info... |  Also it is funny that you would get offended about some one attacking you for your spelling considering that you use all kinds of personal attacks to dismiss the people you disagree with... Lastly, have you worked in the library? There is a lot more to it than stocking shelves, for one thing the library ends up being a haven for the homeless, and they actually do more for poverty than most places do that are supposedly set up to deal with poverty. I know I was homeless for years, and I was constantly in the library, and well most the homeless that use the library are great about it, there are always a few junkies here and there who are so fucked up they destroy every thing around them... Now you can say or think what you want about the addicts and homeless, never the less it dose not change the reality that these library workers are carrying the burden of dealing with the homeless on a regular basis, and thats a lot of work. Never mind that most people that work at the library stay there for years, many of them do have degrees, and most importantly, if we were to re-evaluate this, in a manor where the emphasis is placed on the value of the labor to our society, I think some one working at a library should be getting more than some one that pours coffee, or flips burgers... In fact I think some one who stocks books should be getting more than the people giving parking tickets, or the people busting kids for skateboarding, or cleaning schools, or cutting down trees... - Wed, 16 Apr 2008 1:34am | ||
| {UTA} Mike User Info... | A friend of mine is in a union. CAW I believe. He hates his foreman because the the foreman is a prick. So he tried to quit. They wont let him quit. He says if he goes in that he is going to punch the guy in the face he hates him so much. So they say they will pay for couselling or some shit. He says he doesnt need/want counselling, he just hates the prick and isnt going to work anymore. So he stopped going to work. Last I heard he is STILL an employee. My version of the story. - Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:46am | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Hard to get fired once you're full-time. I've heard of some people not going to work at all for years and still getting their full cheques every two weeks. I work hard at my job when there is work to be done and when that is finished I rest hard for the remainder of the day. I used to think unions could fuck off. Now I think they can be my friend. - Wed, 16 Apr 2008 4:53pm | ||
| round em up User Info... | Well Noise,leave it to an anarchist utopian dreamer to make baseless accusations about someones race and class background when gauging one's sucesses and failures in life. This coming from a guy who feels he needs to mention the sexual orientation of certain bands he's reviewing, like that matters for some odd reason. While I've never worked in a library, I have worked digging ditches, tearing off roofs, demolishing houses, working on oil rigs and lots of other types of "proletarian" work, to know enough that working in a library is neither hard or skilled enough to warrant more than minimum wage. Maybe you havent worked enough to realize this, I dont know or care. In the past I've managed to do this work despite a few physical disabilities, and my background is lower working class, not middle class, so leave your assumptions on my race,physical disability and 'class' in the rubbish heap of class hatred, along with your bankrupt utopian political beliefs. Hatred is hatred young man, no matter if it's focused on race, gender, sexual orientation, or class. Part of the duties of my present job is hiring. I've hired many different minorities, East asian, Indo-Canadian, First Nations, or whatever, and have hired people of all sexual orientations. My judgement in hiring is based on integrity and skills, and i could care less about someone's ethnic background or who/what they choose to screw in thier private lives.While I agree that minorities, gays and lesbians, and people with physical or mental disabilities often face greater hurdles entering the well paid work force than your average white ass middle class schmcuck does, there are programs in place for those people to help them obtain and keep higher income employment,for those to choose to utilize them ,as opposed to making excuses on how society somehow left them behind becase they are gay or have a skin color that isn't white. I find it ironic that you believe in the abolition of the same government that runs programs to help the very people you claim are oppressed, as well as fund the libraries that you claim are some great social outreach network. As far as your disabilities are concerned, maybe if you spent less time making excuses for laziness and more time focusing on your abilities as opposed to your disabilities you could make more of an impact in life than standing on a soapbox preaching historically bankrupt,self rightous political ideology from the dung heap of the 19th century... - Wed, 16 Apr 2008 7:58pm Edited: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:16pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Wow. You guys must be fun at cocktail parties. I'll pay you twenty bucks to mow my lawn. It shouldn't take more than an hour. - Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:46pm | ||
| Doc User Info... | While I agree with alot of what round 'em up is saying, I still think that the full time library staff deserve what they get and then some. I have a friend in Van who is now a librarian, and let me tell you it was no mean feat to get the qualifications needed, which by the way include a University Degree. Also wondered if you were actually implying that ditch digging was low wage labour, or if that was just me misunderstanding? I dug ditches for years and made mad cash doing it (for a non-union company). ~Fuck L. Ron Hubbard and fuck all his clones Doc - Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:09am | ||
| Sati User Info... | sometimes i like this board - Thu, 17 Apr 2008 6:30am | ||
| {UTA} Mike User Info... | Noise said: I know I was homeless for years, and I was constantly in the library, Round Em Up said: but you havent worked enough to realize this.. Once again.. Bubba knows best - Thu, 17 Apr 2008 9:54am Edited: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 9:56am | ||
| round em up User Info... | Doc, I have no problem with someone in a librarian position getting a good fair wage. The position, judging by how you described it, requires earning quilifications from either work experiance or courses, plus a university degree.Your friend chose to get those quilifications and invest in eduction to get that job and should be rewarded accordingly with a good wage, provided the job is in demand However, if you pay library union workers whose role is to sweep hallways or stock shelves 20+ hour instead of the 13-14 dollars an hour the private sector dictates is the going and fair wage for that type of employment based on its (lack of) skills, you remove incentive for people, like your friend, to take steps to provide a better future amd lifestyle for themselves by investing in training and education to land a position that deserves and recieves a decent wage because of it's quilifications. If you narrow the wage gap between unskilled/low demand labor and the skilled/high demand labor too much, people just throw thier hands in the air and think "fuck it, why should I invest in all that shit when I can just join a union and sweep the hallway for the rest of my life". I also wonder how your friend will feel when the wages of the maintinence and stocking staff starts the inevitable creep upward towards his/her's own wages, espesially when he/she invested in eduction and training for thier income while the other invested in fuck all. And Doc, I made pretty good money digging ditches as well (earned every penny though),although some companies were better than others. I wasn't equating it with a low income job, I was only trying to make the point that I've been arouund the block enough times to know what "hard" work "really" is, and that stocking library books on a shelf does not even register on the scale. Some Unions have their place. Other that that, let the market dictate the wage.... - Thu, 17 Apr 2008 2:04pm Edited: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 2:28pm | ||
| bad_fairy User Info... | Love the comment that union workers don't have to have skills and qualifications to get the money they do...nice sweeping comment AND they do require you to have certain qualifications and education otherwise they don't hire you! Period! Plus hate to say it...but those book restackers have had to take some sort of librarian courses, they don't just walk into that job with no qualifications and start stacking books. That's just not the way it works! If it makes you feel better to say those sweeping statement...then have at er...but I think you're being a bit presumptuous! Also someone said they "Don't bitch and they don't complain' about their jobs not paying double digits...well you are one of a kind! Because there are tons of people that bitch and complain about their job but don't make any attempts to change their situation! So you my friend are a rare breed! I'm neither for nor against unions, it just seems people are making assumptions and they might not know all the facts! Just saying... - Thu, 17 Apr 2008 4:29pm Edited: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 7:30pm | ||
| Hearse User Info... | round em up: Please explain the Dewey Decimal System. - Thu, 17 Apr 2008 8:41pm | ||
| goff User Info... | if by dewey you mean cock and by decimal you mean sucking then yes - Thu, 17 Apr 2008 9:31pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | the dewey decimal system is as outdated as unions are. Get rid of it and develop something new. (figuring out the Dewey system isn't rocket science either) - Fri, 18 Apr 2008 10:25am | ||
| ciao User Info... | Erm.... What is the basis of your assertion that the Dewey Decimal System is "outdated"? - Fri, 18 Apr 2008 10:53am | ||
| Jl User Info... | because I said so; deal with it. - Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:53am | ||
| Hearse User Info... | Trolling the internet is outdated. - Fri, 18 Apr 2008 12:29pm | ||
| sumyungai User Info... | I don't troll. I trawl... (it's really the same thing, just with a southern accent...) - Fri, 18 Apr 2008 5:07pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | trolling? just because I dont feel like justifying my opinion on a messageboard, im trolling? Ok, how about the dewey decimal system being invented in the late 1800's is outdated and hard to "update" with the changing times; in terms of our knowledge and the forward moving/advances in technology/research. There ARE other systems out there which are far easier to use(mind you they are [or most are] based on the DDS). But what Im trying to get at is there's so much in developments(of info./tech.) that there must be a way to develop a more efficient way to sort BOOKS. Is that a little better? - Fri, 18 Apr 2008 5:17pm | ||
| round em up User Info... | Dewey decimal classification system, "is a system that uses simple decimal notation to divide recorded knowledge into main 10 classes,100 subdivisions and 1000 sectiions"(source, Ohio College Library Center) Translates into "training that requires, at most, a three day seminar or at least, perhaps 3 hours of internet research plus a computer program that does it for you. Leave it to a unrealistic union numbskull to come up with the notion that having quilifications for this sort of nonsense, something a grade 5 honour role student could figure out, warrants some kind of skilled wage... La La land at it's finest....I bet if I drive by the ferry terminal for Hornby island Friday around 3 i'll see hearse in the line up, dressed in his ginch and holding wildflowers for the moonlight naked dance.... - Fri, 18 Apr 2008 8:08pm Edited: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 8:40pm | ||
| laprider User Info... | I may be impartial being a trustee in the local of one of the larger unions that exists. Next time you are at a concert at Save on or elsewhere ...look up at the tons of stuff hanging from the beams ie speakers, lights. Now would you have unskilled untrained uncontrolled labour putting that right above yer noggin? I work very odd hours most of the time, 15 days straight recently...on a film you can work 20 hours a day for months....I am glad that my SAFETY is paramount and that I am duly rewarded for temporarily losing my life while in production. My union looks out for our best interests I would rather not deal with that.... yearly wage increase and RRSP deposits is nice too! - Sat, 19 Apr 2008 10:36am | ||
| round em up User Info... | Hmmm, so if your saying that only non- union firms provide "unskilled, untrained and uncontrolled labour", you need to give your head a shake. Our non-union firm trains and provides provides workers who have the reputation of being among the best in thier fields on a national level. They are also protected by a company designed and implemented Occupational Health and Safety programn which has consistanly won recognition from Worksafe BC as the one the best around, period. On the other hand, I've seen work on a particular jobsite that was an embarrasment to the very nature of the idea of "skilled work", and that work was performed by a union sub-contractor, who, BTW, recorded the single greatest amounts of preventable injuries and accidents out of all the subtrades of this particular project. - Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:19am Edited: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:22am | ||
| laprider User Info... | No , not what I'm saying...I am speaking directly to MY field of work. I mostly am secure knowing that I am rewarded for the crazy hours I work, without question. AS for Skilled labour vs. unskilled labour in my field. I think you would find the "majority" of the "skilled" labour in that area are Union members. Its not for all but its nice to know if a show guy says hey climb up 70 feet on that truss, no fall arrest and oh yes slide down the cable...I can soundly say NO, my kid wants me home! - Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:30am Edited: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:30am | ||
| NOISE NOT BOMBS User Info... | unions mean protection, which is good, both in the way of job security, and in the way of job safety. It dose not seam to matter how many labour laws we have, there is always loop holes, so it is pretty easy for a company to get rid of an employee that they don't like, and claim the reasons are other than they are. Often people get fired for things like getting pregnant, the way they dress or because their probationary period is about up and the company dose not want to give them benefits or better pay... However illegal this all is, it still happens, a union stops that. Again to mention with the library workers, this was an issue of the city promising pay equity to all workers years back, then not delivering. All workers except the library staff got their pay equity. That's why this job action happened. lastly again round em' up, I notice in your last reply to my last post, that you once again resorted to personal attacks instead of arguing the points based on their merits. - Sat, 19 Apr 2008 2:52pm | ||
| round em up User Info... | Well noise, upon reviewing my reply to your post, I think it would become apparent to anyone, wether you agree with what I say or not,that I argued all the relevent points of my arguments based on what I believe are thier merits. If you're going to debate topics with me son, you need to grow some sack.The fact you resorted to being a cry baby about being "personally attacked", instead of arguing YOUR points based on their merits, prove to me that they have none... And remember, it was you who made baseless (and false) accusation/assumptions about my race,gender, "social class" and other ridiculus nonsense, in a futile attempt to see if my sucess in my career can be "justified" according to your narrow criteria on wether I was white or middle class. I find you anarchists amusing. On one hand, when you confront racial, gender or sexual oreintation based hatred you attack it like a virus ( as you should, I might add ). But then you turn around and preach class hatred, where people like me are labeled as "class enemies" because we're succesfull, and that the reason we're succesful is because we somehow expolited some downtrodden fellow to get it, and that we should feel guilty about it and give it all back so we can all be the same and live in this nonsense utopian paradise where we all get the same cup of rice and beans and are each allotted one hen and cow behind your shack. Hatred is hatred my young reactionary, regardless of who/what it's focused againts. Starts nowhere,leads to nowhere,ends nowhere. I can only imagine how different your outlook on topics like these would have been if you had spent less time leeching off society sitting in the library, living in squats,and were instead out there working like the rest of us "proletarians" you claim to represent... - Sat, 19 Apr 2008 5:55pm Edited: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 6:59pm | ||
| ciao User Info... | reu - This is not in reply to recent posts, and I'm not intending to be snarky, but you have said you spent years working at wages near to the minimum. Your formula for success took quite a while to generate results, which suggests there are other factors at play - and I say luck is a major one. Wasn't it bad luck that no better opportunities came your way for years, and good luck that they came along when they did? For me, breaks often came when I was in the right place at the right time, and I'll bet the same was true for you. - Sat, 19 Apr 2008 9:17pm | ||
| round em up User Info... | You're absolutly right, and the point is taken... Luck, both good and bad, played huge role in where I ended up.and will probably do the same on where I go from here.But I believe people often, at least partially, can create your own good/bad "luck" And I also believe everyone faces these hurdles in one part of their lives or another.It's inevitable. It's a matter of rolling with the punches that life throws at you. Learn from bad luck and mistakes and re-enforce good luck and good decisions. As far as my "formula for success" taking a while to achieve positive results, please keep in mind that, due to family and economic matters, I started working practically full time from the time I was 15, so like I say, many of my lessons were learned in the school of hard knocks from when I was still basically a kid, working years before most people normally enter the work force.... To me it boils down to the theme I've been beating like a dead horse. If an individual doesn't like thier situation, use the resources out there to change it, if not, I don't want my time wasted by that person complaining about it while they come up with excuses on how society owes them a living wage... And by the way, I live for snarky.... - Sat, 19 Apr 2008 9:53pm Edited: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 10:01pm | ||
| Doc User Info... | Round Em Up - I thought that the reason that we were successful WAS because we had exploited some poor downtrodden fellow. Now, I'm not implying that we necessarily do this directly, but in the American based facist economy of today, pretty much all success comes at the expense of someone further down the food chain. I'm not actually disagreeing with anything that you said, I just thought I'd throw that out there. ~I like tits! Doc - Sun, 20 Apr 2008 9:00am | ||
| round em up User Info... | Well, if I've grown fat off some other poor bastard below me, I'll guarentee that there's someone above me that's gotten 10 times as fat because of my work. Roll with the punches. Right or wrong, there will always be social and economic strata, but that's a whole other debate, one that i'm sure is being debated as we speak by Noise and his cadre of revolutionaries at a branch of your local library... I never "screwed over" anyone at my work to get my posotion, just worked a little harder than a few other lads and and took advantage of some opportunuties and training that existed that others chose to ignore. You no doubt raise a valid point about wealth accured through exploitation and expropriation of others,but I think it's unfair to use the analogy when gauging the success or failure of a person at the individual level, because I feel it robs them of the pride they may take for working harder and making sound decisions on getting there in the first place, without nessesarily having to screw anyone over to get there. I'm sure ciao will have a field day with the spelling on this one.... - Sun, 20 Apr 2008 9:40am Edited: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 10:05am | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Don't like capitalism? Move to China or Cuba. I worked for a gardening company before the union job I'm presently in. The going rate for a gardener is usually $15 an hour to start. This cheap cunt starts people at $10 if he can and gives incremental raises up to a ceiling of $14.50 per hour. I justified staying there by only working for half the day and spending the rest of my time doing crosswords, taking care of personal business or doing side jobs for cash. I didn't feel bad about it because of the low pay and the other realities of the situation. He would not pay overtime if it was worked, so employees had to make it fair by lying to him and taking long breaks or sneaking home early when he was known to not be at the shop. Oh, and by not paying overtime, I don't mean time and a half. I mean he wouldn't pay you for more than an 8 hour day even if you worked for 9 hours. Due to this, you had some disgruntled people who had a hate on for the boss. I was lucky enough to be in a position where I never got caught in this trap of not being able to leave when 8 hours was up, but lots of other guys would work with the boss and get screwed over. He supplied us with non-working and sometimes unsafe equipment. Lost count of how many times I had to MacGyver lawnmowers together with a tent peg and string to make it work. Not even kidding. Ask Swingin' Joe. At least I got a lot of experience fixing small engines there. He would berate employees in front of everyone even if the employee in question wasn't at fault...he'd even chew out his own brother in front of all of us and the guy is 45% owner. No manners or reasoning. No point in going to Labour Relations. You get a case going and it's a no win situation. They find in the boss' favour, you can count on your job being taken away. They find in your favour, count on being given all the really shitty work to do. Plus, ever since my WCB fuck over years ago, I don't trust any government agency who is there "for our benefit". When I told him I was leaving, he was shocked and hurt. He wondered why I was going. He asked if I could still come in and help out because he is understaffed. Fuck no, I says. Rather sit at home a day or two a week and not make money. Labour standards are better than times since the Industrial Revolution, but there are still employers out there who take advantage of their employees in unethical ways. I am glad I don't have to deal with that bullshit anymore. - Sun, 20 Apr 2008 1:39pm Edited: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 3:02pm | ||
| Swingin' Joe User Info... | Haha, Mr. Hell I think we'd all be the complete stingy asshole if we were prematurely bald and never got laid! - Mon, 21 Apr 2008 5:46am | ||
| Hearse User Info... | "unrealistic union numbskull" I'm a non-union agricultural worker but thanks for playing. "i'll see hearse in the line up, dressed in his ginch and holding wildflowers for the moonlight naked dance" Grow up, pal. - Mon, 21 Apr 2008 4:45pm Edited: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 4:51pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... |  | ||
| round em up User Info... | Well if you"re not a union numbskull you sure sound like one... Sorry if I hurt your feelings hearse about the ginch and wildflowers . I think I got you mixed up with the guy with the straw hat and pet billy goat..... - Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:12am Edited: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:18am | ||
| Andrew User Info... | lol - Tue, 22 Apr 2008 4:56pm | ||
| NOISE NOT BOMBS User Info... |  May 1, 6pm-11pm @ Camas Books 2590 Quadra st, Coast Salish territories Victoria BC. Local IWW members will be presenting a mayday gathering to celebrate radical labor history and the anticapitalist movement. The event will be a multimedia event including a mix of films, speakers, poetry, and folk music, including a screening of: Speakers: Luke Woodyard speaking on the Zapatista Movement and APPO, and his experiences with both while living in Oaxaca PEERS advocasy for prostitutes and sex workers Students Against War speaking on the Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP) (Unconfirmed) possible speaker on queer and trans workplace issues. Films: Starbucks Workers Union - Together We Win A Short Documentary about the IWW/IU660 Starbucks Workers Union. Chronicles the Struggles and Victories in the two year campaign. Entitled "Together We Win - The Fight To Organize Starbucks." Produced by Diane Krauthamer. 2006. Live Nude Girls Unite - A documentary on Dancers at the Lusty Lady peepshow forming a union to protect themselves from discrimination and gain workers rights. The Wobblies A Documentary detailing the history of the Industrial Workers of the world. Music: Art Farquharson More info still to come on confirmed speakers and musicians. The event will be hosted by MC Mathew Cook and presented by local members of the IWW. The event is free however donations are welcome. An Injury To One Is An Injury To All Create a union for all workers and abolish the wage system! - Wed, 30 Apr 2008 9:51pm | ||
| sumyungai User Info... | If we ignore it, will it go away? - Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:16pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | ZZZZzzzZZZzzzzZZZzzzZZZzzzZZZ hopefully it will go away if we just ignore it lol - Thu, 1 May 2008 3:16pm | ||
| bbjones User Info... | "Create a union for all workers and abolish the wage system!" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHhahahahahaha.... haha.....heh. Please... go eat lead paint or play in traffic or move to China and let those who want to work hard get what they deserve. - Thu, 1 May 2008 7:42pm Edited: Thu, 1 May 2008 7:44pm | ||
| round em up User Info... | Wow...Noise's line of thinking has me sceculating that he is suffering oxegen deprivation from having his head stuffed up his ass too long... But really folks, the truely sad thing is that he is for real...imagine the potential of individuals like him if they strove to create modern realistic alternatives for current problems, ideas with relevence to today's issues, instead of reciting old ideological nonsense like some puppet on a string, from dusty books in the library written 200 years ago by utopian dreamers who lived in a completely different society. - Fri, 2 May 2008 12:52am Edited: Fri, 2 May 2008 12:58am | ||
| Hearse User Info... |  'truly' 'relevance' Despite your thesaurus driven attempt at lucidity, it continues to be apparent you suffer from 'red-neck inferiority complex' exacerbated by a cowardice in approaching the real world, resulting in 'internet tough guy syndrome'. Get well soon. - Sat, 3 May 2008 6:49pm | ||
| round em up User Info... | Oh, yet another sensetive soul who cannot come up with with any tangible reply to any of the points I've raised, so they resort to pointing out spelling errors, complain about me being mean, call me a "coward " and claim I "hide behind the internet", simply because I have the sack to state my beliefs and then back them up.... This section is called "contraversy and quarantine". Being that you're quite the Maoist when it comes to correct spelling, I assume you can read. Quite frankly, it appears you are too thin skinned or maybe too much of a pussy to deal with the topics on here. Next time you're surfing the net from some hippy internet cafe after rowing your boat over to Hornby,when you have time to kill between pinecone collecting and making tables out of driftwood, I suggest you either skip this section entirely,or, if you choose to paticipate,offer more than just one lame point about an archaic classification system, and then be prepared not to mope like some fool who was "bullied" by a bunch of meanies when that riduculus notion was exposed for the bullshit that it was and beaten into the ground(and not just by me, BTW). - Sat, 3 May 2008 8:17pm Edited: Sun, 4 May 2008 1:49am | ||
| round em up User Info... |  | ||
| Hearse User Info... | Your 'arguements' can be summed up by the observation that they would be more effective if typed in ALL CAPS. Just a little tip for you there pal. - Mon, 5 May 2008 12:22pm | ||
| Nicholas Antoni Marek Gibas User Info... | http://www.environnement.ens.fr/perso/claessen/agriculture/mistake_jared_diamond.pdf - Tue, 6 May 2008 12:16pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Good read. Thanks Gibas. - Tue, 6 May 2008 2:00pm | ||
| round em up User Info... | Wow Purse, what's with all the capitals? There's really no need to shout, it's just a meesage board bro.Although I do love getting under some hippie's skin. And of course,I look foreward to your inevitiable critique of my spelling skills... BTW, try to avoid using phrases that have been redundent since the late 50's, like "pal". Next you'll be calling me "mac", "fella" or "buddy" while refering to me as a "rube", after getting upset that I ran off with your "dame". I know that in the hippie subculture these things take longer to trickle down than in other areas, but c'mon, really now... Upon reviewing your last reply to my post, I suggest you put down that corny-assed hillbilly union between a piano and a wine skin that you call a musical instrument and concentrate on working on your wit. Seeing that you're starting from rock bottom in that regard means you should see some small improvements soon. Perhaps your billy goat can help... Justa little tip for ya there "mac", from your pal... - Tue, 6 May 2008 4:32pm Edited: Tue, 6 May 2008 4:45pm | ||
| Hearse User Info... |  | ||
| round em up User Info... | Wow...so in another post you scold me about "growing up" but now you're resorting to low brow humour like posting pictures that make fun of the mentally handicapped, which happens to be someone's son and loved one. Wow that's pretty funny alright... You're a real class act example of a grown man bro....maybe in your next post you can make fun of people with down's syndrome or autism. - Tue, 6 May 2008 7:21pm Edited: Tue, 6 May 2008 8:20pm | ||
| Dr.DoomXXX User Info... | "Kid with down, wins the race. Even though he stood in place, Olympics........special Olympics." -Stephen Lynch - Wed, 7 May 2008 4:10am | ||
| Hearse User Info... |  The correct term is "differently abled", FYI. The image in an internet meme and as such, transcends your pedestrian (and put on) outrage. "make fun of people with down's syndrome" In fact, the boy in the image is a down's kid, so... yeah. - Wed, 7 May 2008 12:14pm Edited: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:16pm | ||
| round em up User Info... | Well, I guess a poor excuse is better than none... But I'm sure that's your life story anyway... - Wed, 7 May 2008 4:17pm | ||
| Hearse User Info... | Wow, do you come up with this stuff on your own? - Wed, 7 May 2008 6:50pm | ||
| sumyungai User Info... | Hey, he's a hell of a lot more original than you, with your hoary, old, tired jpegs. Real fresh material there, mate... - Wed, 7 May 2008 8:26pm Edited: Wed, 7 May 2008 8:27pm | ||
| Hearse User Info... | SYG: Missing the point must be your profession. - Wed, 7 May 2008 11:02pm | ||
| sumyungai User Info... | And village idiot must be yours... - Wed, 7 May 2008 11:57pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... |  | ||
| Dr.DoomXXX User Info... | The dude in the barrow looks looks like he's about to bust a grumpy. - Thu, 8 May 2008 11:25am | ||
| round em up User Info... | That's actually a picture of Purse before he found his pacifistic hippy lifestyle, before he grew his hair long, started playing music from something that looks and sounds more like an animal's stomach as opposed to an actual musical instrument,and then let his pubic hair hair grow up to his chin to enable it to fuse seamlessly with his beard... - Thu, 8 May 2008 8:11pm Edited: Thu, 8 May 2008 8:28pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | You sir, are proof that men have sex with goats. - Fri, 9 May 2008 12:56am | ||
| sumyungai User Info... | Come now, goats have done nothing to deserve this... - Fri, 9 May 2008 7:35am | ||
| Danielle User Info... | I note that no one so far in this thread has mentioned the fact that there are several benefits provided by the government to assist those who are low income earners. They pay little or no health premiums, they receive GST rebates and in greater amounts depending on income, if they have children they receive a child tax credit also on a scale, they can be elligable for rent subsidies and daycare subsidies, they pay less or nothing for prescriptions, etc. etc. So despite the fact that a person may not work under the swaddling comfort of a union, not have the ambition to attain the skills to land a higher paying job, are just lazy or whatever we the public pay them in any event. - Sat, 10 May 2008 6:53am | ||
| round em up User Info... | I have in fact mentioned in several of my replies to Noise's posts about government programs in place to help people get a leg up should they have the desire/motivation to do so, but oh well... Everthing else, I agree 100%. - Sat, 10 May 2008 10:55am Edited: Sat, 10 May 2008 10:56am | ||
| Doc User Info... | Danielle, speaking from the point of view of one of those low-income earners of whom you speak, you have no idea. Despite the fact that I have 3 kids, my GST rebate is a joke, the U.C.C benefit is TAXABLE, and while yes, the Child Tax Credit does help some, these things are in no way a substitute for a well paying job. Aside from the child tax credit, all those programs are just things that the government can point to and say, "Look, we do care about the low-income people. See what we're doing to help." The Pharmacare thing is particularly insulting. I ditched that shit the moment I enrolled in school and got my benefits through them. Unions (or jobs with union competitive compensation) are the only way to go if you want to have a decent go of it in life. At least that's how it seems from my perspective. ~For the best omlettes, use the mushrooms from Cowichan Lake Doc - Sat, 10 May 2008 6:37pm | ||
| Danielle User Info... | Well your key word there Doc is perspective. From my perspective it's also a bitch. I'm in the majority of middle income earners who make more than the limits set to receive any bonuses but don't make enough to live on easy street. 6 months ago I turned down a position with Ministry of the Attorney General (where employees belong to a union) in favour of my current position in the private sector, non union and without the middle management assholes, without the head honchos with their well-kissed asses lurking about, and all the other bullshit that goes along with those types of positions. The non-union position I accepted instead was $5,000 per year more and If I felt that at this point the salary that I agreed to upon accepting my position was not a fair remuneration due the complicated nature of my work I am free to go to my employer and disucss a higher salary. I don't have to wait until any certain time periods arrive or be refrained to get an increase in pay because I had to have different classification number. - Sun, 11 May 2008 2:38am Edited: Sun, 11 May 2008 4:33am | ||
 Dr.DoomXXX Victor Von Doom Messages Posted: It's O.K., I'm a doctor. | At first it seems like you're trying to bitch about not making "enough to live on easy street" to someone who's obviously struggling much harder than you are. But in the end you're just bragging. - Sun, 11 May 2008 9:52am | ||
| round em up User Info... | Funny, I read the same post and that's not the impression I got. I got the inpresssion she turned down a unionized job in the public sector for a non union one in the private sector, with better pay,treatment, and overall, a chance to negotiate with the employer directly as opposed to some cumbersome hierarchy dictated by the union based on classification. This is just my opinion, but alot of people would have excepted the government job because of apparent security and (assumed) "easy street" nature of union jobs, but she had the sack to take her hard earned quilifications and seek something that she felt better compensated her for what the value of her training/skills are. That's the point I've tried to make from the start of this growing thread. People like her with the motivation to seek out better opportunities deserve to make more than the one's who don't, whose only justification for a raise when contract time comes around is senoirity, not performance. And if that's bragging, my friend, then all the power to her. - Sun, 11 May 2008 10:36am Edited: Sun, 11 May 2008 10:41am | ||
| Hearse User Info... | Individual anecdotes and opinion do not make an effective argument for or against the idea of unions. That the private, non-union sector is forced to offer competitive wages and benefits is a result of competing with the terms offered by unionized public and private employers. Labour laws, including regulations governing work hours and safety, are a result of organized labour movements (unions) forcing legislation. Government and employers do not historically offer workers' rights out of the 'goodness of their hearts' but only as forced to by organized labour. In the global workforce, unions are the exception, not the rule. A friend working as the 'Safety Officer' for the largest mega-project contracting company in the world (responsible for the Three Gorges Dam and the Libyan water pipelines, for example,) SNC-Lavalin would routinely comment on the huge difference in worker mortality rates between countries without acknowledged union and workers' rights and those forced to uphold the rights of workers. (Countries without legislated workers' rights who routinely outlaw unions have radically higher rates of worker injury and mortality.) You could argue that in our 'civilized' culture, gains made in workers' rights are ensconced in our culture and we are too advanced to see a roll-back in these areas, but actions against workers (such as the Campbell government's illegal shredding of the hospital workers' contracts) show the opposite. So again, even recent history argues against the points anti-unionists make with personal anecdote and broad biased opinion. If you have a problem with the specific library situation, I'd suggest you investigate the actual conflict, in this case a disparity between clerical workers' wages at the libraries and those of the Victoria Municipal Government, which were to be addressed in the last decade but which were not. Otherwise, you might as well say that we should dissolve the government system in BC because of a scandal in Quebec, for all its relevance. - Sun, 11 May 2008 1:01pm Edited: Sun, 11 May 2008 1:02pm | ||
| ciao User Info... | reu- Danielle didn't actually mention job security as a factor. My impression is that her choice was largely based on her apparent belief that the public sector is full of assholes and ass-lickers, whereas there are no such people in her new workplace. It so happens there are a lot of good jobs out there right now, so I don't take Danielle's situation to be a mark of exemplary achievement. If this were 1983 when the job market was tight, she'd be competing for that AG job against dozens of perfect spellers with good attitudes, and there wouldn't be another good job waiting for her if she weren't hired. - Sun, 11 May 2008 1:10pm Edited: Sun, 11 May 2008 1:35pm | ||
| round em up User Info... | Wow Hearse, I'm glad to see that for once you've raised many valid points towards the debate as opposed to posting pictures of retarded kids.... No one is arguing that countries with standards and laws allowing for collective bargining and worker safety are better off than others, and it's been pointed out that unions are largly if not totally responsible for this. I have brought up in this posts and previous ones that if it weren't for unions we'd still be living at a dollar a day and have goons break up any attempt at the worker's attempt to meet as a collective unit to get that wage raised. However, the notions and good intentions of unionism have been, over time, corrupted and abused like every other good intentioned or needed reform. In many areas they are still needed and relevant, but in others they have become archaic, bureaucratic skeletons in a world that lives by different rules, ethics and economic/social conditions than when they were first implementated. And there is no doubt that employers like mine "kill the union with kindness" because of need to keep these workers from joining union firms.However, they also represent a more responsible type of business and give a perfect example of how, when needed, an employer can present an alternative to the top heavy bureaucratic nightmare that some unions create, while still keeping the high wages, benefits, safety standards and respectful treatment that most unions "claim" to provide. And while I agree with ciao that Danielle's situation, and the decisions she made about her career would have been entirely different in the early 80's than how it worked out today, this is not 1982, it's 2008. You don't consider/take oppourtunities based on the conditions of 20 years ago, you do it based on the current market conditions of today. Right or wrong, unions have gone through an evolutionary process. Employers are doing the same, and I believe that history will show that those companies who are not unionised but compete with unions for workers through better wages and treatment will prove to be the most competative, and will outlast those who don't, whether they are unionised are not... - Sun, 11 May 2008 4:42pm Edited: Sun, 11 May 2008 9:34pm | ||
| Hearse User Info... |  I have a tendency to respond in kind and wasn't too impressed with your continued ad hominem hippie bullshit, which is fairly standard for the internet. I don't have much time for extremism on any side of an argument and believe that Canada is unique in our tolerance for a variety of seemingly opposed systems which ideally provide everyone with a place to do what they do. Of course this is relatively costly but I'd rather part with a bit of cash than argue with a machete or machine gun as is standard in less tolerant societies. In this case, I'd prefer there to be 'union' and 'non-union' than a society which exclusively imposes one or the other on everyone involved. This is why I would not support NNB's ideas around total sovereignty for workers, either. As much as those who manage and govern can be dicks, so can workers. - Sun, 11 May 2008 9:45pm | ||
| round em up User Info... | Hearse wrote " I'd rather see a union and non union society than one that imposes one over the other" Words of wisdom, and i could not agree more. My sense of humour can be a bit abrasive. I have no problem with you getting your hackles up about the hippie stuff. Don't take it personally, it is, after all, LiveVictoria's controversy section, which would not be as interesting without the ragged edged comments tht come across it.... As for supporting NNB's idea of "worker sovereignty", his ideals on the subject reminds me of the type of dogshit that hangs around long enough for the sun to dry it up and blow it away in the wind... - Sun, 11 May 2008 10:12pm Edited: Sun, 11 May 2008 10:18pm | ||
| sumyungai User Info... | Wow... what a poetic soul... who knew? - Sun, 11 May 2008 10:28pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Roundemup's "sense of humor", is worthy of a punch to the wiener. - Sun, 11 May 2008 11:11pm Edited: Sun, 11 May 2008 11:12pm | ||
| Hearse User Info... | "punch to the wiener" et tu, brut? - Sun, 11 May 2008 11:20pm | ||
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| Fableway User Info... | I gladly pay 100$/mnth in union dues so that my boss can't fire me over personal shit, so I always can take my breaks, so my personal health is protected (there was a time i didnt feel safe at a workplace, its a hassle to report it, and they fire you), WCB and Disability subsidies so that if I hurt myself I get full wage still, so that any advancement opportunity that's available won't go to an ass kisser-favored employee, so that I can get an extra 12% pay equity on top of my already decent wage for my union job: Master of the Custodial Arts (or janitor if you wanna be a dick about it) Unions have and will always be a good thing. Some union people ARE lazy bastards, and have less physically demanding jobs,but its better to have your city and country run by unions than by private American companies, and foreign interest groups. I can't imagine finding a Mark Twain in my Romance section. I would so have it out on those teenage non-union employees... oh wait, they're out back shooting oxycontin, because they can't afford proper drugs. Boomshakalaka (stephen hawking voice) - Wed, 4 Jun 2008 4:44pm | ||
| grimlord User Info... | My work just went through a union bid or election ,there was a lot of sneaky shit going on on the union's rep's part trying to make us go there way ,but we have it good already and there is no need for change.I am glad that there is no union for me and my co-workers ,if there was we would get a pay rise but have to pay union dews ,my work has one if not the best med and dental plans and is stepping up the pay without the dews, so why change. - Wed, 5 Nov 2008 11:29pm | ||
| Mike User Info... | dew = water on grass in the morning. Or it comes off a mountain and they bottle it. Dues = what you owe. or dont owe. - Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:04am | ||
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