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Mastering?
| Message Board > General Chitchat > Mastering? |
| Musician | So who's the best in this town? - Wed, 4 Jun 2003 4:20pm | ||
| Japanese Air Force | I hear that Suite Sound in Vancouver does a great job mastering and at a fair price. It's been my experience that most of the people who do "mastering" in Victoria just put your stuff through a "master-o-matic", rather than doing it for real. If you're okay with that, there's probably a bunch of people who could do it for you. Personal preference... I don't dig that kind of treatment myself. ~JAF - Wed, 4 Jun 2003 6:45pm | ||
| Anonymous | Mostyn Sound, just off fort. check yellow pages for number. very reasonable. good ear. - Thu, 5 Jun 2003 2:07am | ||
| Rael User Info... | Why would you want to pay someone to do that for you?? That sort of thing is just as much a piece of the artwork as the playing of the instruments themselves.... - Thu, 5 Jun 2003 3:43am | ||
| some guy | uhh what is mastering? - Thu, 5 Jun 2003 9:41am | ||
| Anonymous | Mastering (for stereo) is the process of taking the two track master, and applying eq, compression, and limiting in either the analog or digital domain, depending on the needs of the actual tune. It's purpose is to expose the two track master to a pair of experienced ears just prior to shipping it off to the pressing plant. On a large scale,only a few guys like Bob Ludwig, Bernie Grundman, and not more than about 5 others, (and one girl, Emily Lazar) master almost 95% of everything, yes that's right, everything we hear. A quality mastering job can save an otherwise less than perfect recording, and give it a better shot at ?????? - Thu, 5 Jun 2003 9:52am | ||
| Anonymous | One other thing, mastering is never, read....NEVER done in a recording studio. It's always done in a mastering suite. If somebody tells you that the typical home recording studio control room is the appropriate place to master your music......they're lying. - Thu, 5 Jun 2003 9:57am | ||
| Anonymous | Sterling Sound. NYC. Look it up. - Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:51am | ||
| ChaCha | "One other thing, mastering is never, read....NEVER done in a recording studio. It's always done in a mastering suite. If somebody tells you that the typical home recording studio control room is the appropriate place to master your music......they're lying" BINGO! I cannot begin to count the number of times Ive heard that one spewed out of the mouth of some half-bit recording engineer. - Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:52am | ||
| Zander | http://www.electricmountain.com - Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:51pm | ||
| Rembrandt | Emily Lazar is not only good at Mastering...She is HOT! - Thu, 5 Jun 2003 1:46pm | ||
| Anonymous | BOB LUDWIG. $3000 US + - Thu, 5 Jun 2003 1:50pm | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | I have used Mark Franklin now for over 10 years and I have never been dissapointed. Almost without exception, anything that has been mastered anywhere else has been ruined either by guys with no ears, or guys that figure that THEY want to be the "producer". Too often the mixes don't need very much more than a fine polishing; some mastering guys feel compelled to step all over your mixes to justify the rather expensive rates they charge, the idea being if the mix shows up ALMOST perfect and they don't need to do hardly anything then the client doesn't feel that they have got their money's worth. ("It didn't sound that much different" is a phrase I hear often; it just tells me I did a pretty good job in the first place).Don't get the recording/mixing engineer to master if you can avoid it, either. - Thu, 5 Jun 2003 3:36pm | ||
| Anonymous | You may get into Bob Ludwigs Gateway Mastering for $3000.00, but you won't get Bob. There are a few junior Mastering Engineers there, but to get Bob himself to master is more like $10,000.00 to $20,000.00 U.S. Bob's name on your album, as the mastering engineer, has enough weight to affect overall album sales, so he doesn't come cheap. Check out the web site for Gateway Mastering, when you see the gear, Bob's custom mastering suite, the bulding it's all in, and the constant experimentation with new technologies that Bob undertakes, you'll also see that charging $3000.00 a shot couldn't even begin to cover the operation. Also, a "recording" engineer can't just turn into a mastering engineer. It's not to say you can't do both, but if you try to master in your "recording" control room, you'll not get a mastered product. The equipment list for a mastering studio and a recording studio are completely different. There's almost nothing in the typical recording chain that's appropriate, or even acceptable, to a qualified mastering engineer. - Fri, 6 Jun 2003 3:44pm | ||
| Anonymous | Oh yeah, in terms of Victoria, and guys who have made a comitted effort to build a mastering suite, and offer professional mastering services, Mark Franklin is the only game in town, literally........nobody else is mastering. Having a TC Electronic "Finalizer" is not mastering, it's wasteing your money. Minimum buy in for a basic mastering suite, (usless for recording) is $75,000.00. You could do it for less, but not much less. - Fri, 6 Jun 2003 3:52pm | ||
| Anonymous | Sterling Sound. - Fri, 6 Jun 2003 3:52pm | ||
| G. Martin | I would be surprised indeed if Bob's name on a record made ANY impact on the sales of ANY CD. - Fri, 6 Jun 2003 5:10pm | ||
| Anonymous | Well Mr. Martin, do your research , and be prepared to be suprised. Go to Google, type in "Bob Ludwig" and see what the industry, press, insiders, and fans all think of him. But then, what do you really know about it? - Sat, 7 Jun 2003 2:08am | ||
| Mickey Most's ghost | Industry, press, insiders, yeah, sure. But fans? Hang on a second. Are you one of those "metal heads"? - Sat, 7 Jun 2003 2:30am | ||
| Anonymous | Yeah, yeah....you're probably right. Fans may have been a bit much. I supose if you're a fan, you're probably one of the other three "things" I mentioned - Sat, 7 Jun 2003 2:51am | ||
| Anonymous | Sterling Sound - Sat, 7 Jun 2003 1:13pm | ||
| Zander | Just so you know the facts...Bob Ludwigs Gateway Mastering facility in Maine, charges $600USD/ per hour with a $5000 deposit. He has one other engineer Adam Ayan working under him at something like $400-$500 per hour. Sombody mentioned...'The equipment list for a mastering studio and a recording studio are completely different...' This is true, but not entirely. Great compression is great commpression for instance. My favorite tube compressor for tracking is my Manley vari-Mu. This is also a favorite mastering compressor among some of the best mastering engineers. - Sat, 7 Jun 2003 1:17pm | ||
| David Foster's dogsbody | That's right, Bob has "retired" to Maine but still keeps his hand in. I would think that a tube compressor, even a real good one, would be a tad noisy for mastering (I haven't ever used the Manley, but I have used some expensive ones; they were almost all a bit noisier than my solid state Drawmers etc. Mr. Franklin, when he uses compression at all in mastering, uses a big fancy Lexicon multi-digital thing that's pretty transparent. - Sat, 7 Jun 2003 1:50pm | ||
| Anonymous | http://www.sterling-sound.com/ - Sat, 7 Jun 2003 2:05pm | ||
| Anonymous | Oh, and every band from Slayer to N'Sync have masterd here, - Sat, 7 Jun 2003 2:05pm | ||
| Anonymous | A Manley Vari-mu IS NOT standard equipment in any mastering studio. Mastering studios use Manley, but not the Vari-Mu. The most common Manley item in EVERY mastering studio is their custom analog consoles, made exclusively for mastering (monitoring actually).... Prey tell.....in what mastering studio have you seen a Vari-Mu? Analog devices in mastering studios are mostly for a little spice here and there, most work is done in the digital domain. - Sat, 7 Jun 2003 11:51pm | ||
| Zander | Where will you find a Manley Vari Mu in a mastering facility?? You obviously need to educate yourself a bit more on this subject, if you think this is not a unit found in most mastering facilities including Bob Ludwigs own Gateway mastering... http://www.gatewaymastering.com/masttech.asp Precision Mastering has mastered everything from Madonna to Alice in Chains and has a Vari Mu in every room.. http://www.precisionmastering.com/equipment.htm Quote from Manley Labs site: 'To illustrate this point, while doing research for my latest book, The Mastering Engineer�s Handbook, I asked most of the major mastering facilities exactly what equipment they were using. As you�d expect, the answers were all over the board in terms of gear preferences, but one piece consistently showed up on virtually all their lists: the Manley Variable-Mu. In fact, the Variable-Mu (or "Vari-Mu," as it has fondly become known) was one of the units that most mastering engineers singled out as indispensable to their work. http://www.manleylabs.com/reviews/EQ_varimu_review.html 1/2 inch tape is still an industry standard, and commonly used alongside the digital gear. I asked Bob Ludwig about the new Filter album he mastered. He actually transfered the 24 bit files back onto 1/2 inch tape to give it some extra balls. You should get your facts straight donkey..... Zander http://www.electricmountain.com - Sun, 8 Jun 2003 1:01am | ||
| Anonymous | Ahhhhhh....it's so clear now, you're an analog ass-hole. How much time did you waste "preparing" your response? Who cares what the fuck you think......all major work is done in the digital domain, and just because you waste your time trying to dig up the one or two mentions of some piece of noisy Manley junk means nothing except that you're a fuckin' donkey yourself. - Sun, 8 Jun 2003 2:26am | ||
| Anonymous | Hey Zander, were you over at Bob's house for dinner or something? - Sun, 8 Jun 2003 2:31am | ||
| Anonymous | I think you're all full of yourselves, and shit. 90% of all contemporary releases that come from anywhere but the bedroom are recorded on Pro-Tools. Fact. You can spread the shit around all you want. - Sun, 8 Jun 2003 2:43am | ||
| MethodAir | 'some piece of noisy Manley junk' Go back and read the info from Bob Ludwig's Gateway Mastering site...something tells me at his rates, and reputation, he only selects the best. Quote: Extraordinary Analog Audio Gateway Mastering prides itself on selecting just the right analog audio equipment....Manley, Sontec, Massenburg, Millennia and Avalon give us a choice of equalizers and compressors. /// he goes on to discuss 1/2 and 1 inch tape mastering formats /// Our Ampex ATR's can be configured for any of your project's needs. We have ATR's with stock transformers, transformerless, I/O bypass, Mike Spitz's ARIA preamp or even Mike Spitz's incredible Tube Preamps can give us a great sound. Tim da Paravicini's 1" inch tape machine with audiophile tube electronics provides the ultimate in analog two track recording and playback. In addition, our Studer tape machines can be run stock or with Mark Levinson's Cello tape preamplifiers. ////// Next time, stick to the facts, and not the false notions 'you' (meaning: anon nobody) feel are the facts. Cheers, MethodAir - Sun, 8 Jun 2003 4:45am | ||
| Anonymous | Method Air pulls his pud looking at the ad's in Mix Magazine. Sounds like Mix is too sophisticated for you M.A., you'd better go back to Stereo Review. So Bob's got (in his huge inventory of gear) a Manley Vari-Mu, and you're going to hang your hat on it...... idiot. - Sun, 8 Jun 2003 10:14am | ||
| Old Guy | Im sorry, but Zander is right. Most bands master 100% digitally because the cost is lower and of course, they recorded digitally too. I dont care who the band is, but if it is your standard industry schlock that you hear pumping out of mainstream radio ( you know, another one of these 100's of filler bands ) than the label is more than likely to cut all costs and shovel the band quickly through a digital facility. Fact: Analog sounds better Fact: 1/2 inch mastering sounds better - Sun, 8 Jun 2003 10:16am | ||
| Tails Out User Info... | There's a seed of truth in all the above posstings. A digital mastering solution is commonplace these days, and analog does sound better. A truisim might be that a limited number of manufacturers make equipment in the analog world, that is suitable for both recording and mastering, but you could count them on one (and a bit) hand. The Vari-Mu is a wonderful device, and so is the all digital Daniel Weiss. As for which one has been used on more recordings, who cares? They're both out there to use as tools, along with many others. Digital is a tool, analog is a breathing, living, thing. Each one has a place in music, depending on what the artist is doing. As it seems Bob Ludwig is a hot topic here, I'll point out to all that Bob is in Banff this month, at the AES gathering there. It's a gathering that is going to focus on surround sound creation, mixing, and mastering. It might be interesting to maintain a (flame free) thread in LiveVic on the local recording scene, technical in nature. It would seem that based on the above postings there is certainly the knowledge base here, currently if might be just a little to hot for productive discussions. Anybody want to cool off and talk "gear slut" Tails Out. - Sun, 8 Jun 2003 10:32am | ||
| ML7Mike | http://members.shaw.ca/soundlabs/equipment.html This is a link to Suite Sound Labs in Vancouver where Meatlocker Seven had their new release mastered. We did record 2" and our initial reason for going to Suite Sound was for the usage of their 1/2" machine. Unfortunately it was 'out of service' during our sessions, and we were relegated to mastering through his digital setup, which consisted of pro tools and out board gear, including, yup, the Manley Variable MU Mastering Compressor - Sun, 8 Jun 2003 10:46am | ||
| Zander | I'm not interested in the age old analog digital debate here...they both work hand in hand. I use both. But if some anonymous donkey, (do you have a name?) decides to talk out of his ass saying things like...'mastering facilities DO NOT use the Vari Mu' or asking me what mastering houses have I seen them in, then I'll have to call him on it. Cheers......Zander - Sun, 8 Jun 2003 1:18pm | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | Ah indeed, there's the rub, ML7. If I had a loonie for every studio I've walked into that had broken analog tape machines strewn about I could BUY a 2" machine. At one point Lemon Loaf in Van had about 8 of em laying around, all 2 track Studers and such like. I have no idea what % of people master on 1/2 analog and I don't care, but, like I said months ago, you will find no classical record label of any size doing ANYTHING in analog. The RVG series on Blue Note? All digital I'm afraid and if it's good enough for Rudy Van Gelder it's good enough for me (and you). Analog is now pretty much the sole domain of esoteric metalheads and snobby old school jazzers; the normal world hasn't got the time. By the way if analog is SO much better sounding, why does Zander post mp3's on his website. Now there's a format that sounds like shit. I would NEVER put an mp3 on my studio website to show my studio's capabilities. 1/2 " is fine, but it's a hassle, expensive and, unlike digital, is unlikely to get much better in the future. Give the industry 5 or so more years and this arguement will be over. - Sun, 8 Jun 2003 1:26pm | ||
| spark | hey, um , i think the post was orginially about local mastering. also, we here on live vic are not fucking signed rock stars, so "affordable" I think has some bearing. having a debate about million dollar mastering studios is like a welfare collector debating about his favorite olympic size backyard swimming pool - Sun, 8 Jun 2003 1:29pm | ||
| Zander | The MP3's sound fine for what they are. People can get a quick sample online, and if they are serious will come by the studio to have a real listen. - Sun, 8 Jun 2003 1:58pm | ||
| ML7Mike | Thats funny, I never heard of any other metal band recently that recorded 2". I think the metal industry is definately one that doesnt throw alot of money around, therefore EVERYONE in it records digitally. And when we recorded at Zero Gravity, of course we got the pauper deal, but the bands who bumped us out for the real money recordings were classical, rock, hip hop. No metal or jazz. I think ZG's money making fare over the years has been US country and classical groups/ensembles. And for the guy who is looking for affordable mastering, Suite Sound Labs charge $50 per song. - Sun, 8 Jun 2003 2:24pm | ||
| the snowman | I suspect that ZG's money making has little to do with music, lately. TV maybe - Sun, 8 Jun 2003 2:57pm | ||
| Anonymous | didn't ERD just do some 2" work? - Sun, 8 Jun 2003 2:58pm | ||
| ML7Mike | Regardless, It was not a discussion as to how much money they make doing what. My point stands that when we were frequenting the establishment, there were classical/rock/ and hip hop acts using the analog gear. But yes, there were a fair amount of TV related jobs coming through there as well. Im just arguing Zippy's statement that only esoteric metal and jazz snobs still use 2" That is simply untrue. And yes, ERD did go 2" , but affordable 2" studios like Zanders are few and far between. Today's metal industry is 99% digitalized. I suspect ML7's next recording will also be digital, mainly due to availablity and cost, however, if money is no object ( hahah I made a funny! ) and I were given a choice, I would go 2" - Sun, 8 Jun 2003 3:05pm | ||
| MethodAir | 'Give the industry 5 or so more years and this arguement will be over' I remember years back a lot of industry people were saying live drummers would become obsolete with the onslaught of drum machines. It didn't happen, in fact music tended to go in the opposite direction with metal and Seattle bands. Although digital still has a long way to catch up (listen to the deterioration of a 2" mix dumped down to 24 bit digital), the same argument may apply here. http://www.electricmountain.com - Sun, 8 Jun 2003 3:22pm | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | What a dumb analogy. What I mean is that at some point the differences will be so minute and the technology so cheap and goof proof that the big cumbersome machines of old will go the way of the dodo, except for the VERY rich artists. Someone will figure out how to build, say, a Line 6 box that duplicates all the warmth (distortion) and crunch (compression) of 2" analog for $250 and none of us will be able to hear the difference. "If you got ears, you gotta listen" Capt. Beefheart says and he's right. - Mon, 9 Jun 2003 3:03am | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | Oh yeah; I'll betcha at least 70% of the drums you hear on the radio are sampled, sequenced and quantized to the point that they are, for all intents and purposes, drum machines. That is the songs that aren't actually drum machines. - Mon, 9 Jun 2003 3:09am | ||
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