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Recording/Enginerring Post Secondary
| Message Board > General Chitchat > Recording/Enginerring Post Secondary |
| Tim-Bitchfork User Info... | Hey, I have decided that I want to go to college or university for Recording/Audio Engineering. As you can probably guess, most universities do a Music Program concentrated on Music and Theory itself right? I am currently completing my Application for 2008 at the University of Sibelius in Helsinki, Finland. They are a music University that has "Bachelor of Music in Audio Technology", it's 2.5 years. I have looked at Uvic which I have heard bad things about for this kinda course, plus they only have the normal 4 year music. looked at the Universities in Van which just have regular 4 year Music. AI has some 1 year Recording thing but I have heard TERRIBLE things about that school, my friend is actually in a court case suing them. I wanted to know if anyone can suggest good schools to look at in Canada/USA/Europe. Doesn't really matter where it is, traveling is a life goal of mine as well. Thanks a lot for any suggestions. - Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:12pm | ||
| Matteus User Info... | now don't quote me on this... i believe that alot of mainstream universities wont have what you are looking for. such as university of alberta, bc, uvic, montreal etc etc you'll be gearing towards an "art" school perhaps. the names usually give you an idea: college of technical engineering or western acadamy of music (these names are made up) BUT... i have a story to tell about going to a school for recording.... my friend went to school for recording and i believe that its about a year long? but anyways, he came out, knew technical aspects but knew nothing about live applications. i helped him with that. i guess what i am getting at is you might be better finding an incredibly nice studio that you like and asking to apprentice there. pay them instead of a university. but, it's all your choice cheers matteus - Mon, 11 Jun 2007 2:26pm | ||
| Tim-Bitchfork User Info... | Thanks man, and I can see how so many "labs" and classes will make you more of a studio engineer than a live. I am fairly interested in these "art schools" but these programs are almost too short and too geared to one thing. My ideal course is Bachelor of Music in Audio Technology at Sibelius but that will be unbelievably hard to get in to, not to say that I am not gunna try my 100%. You basically learn a University level of music but Major in Audio Technology. I look at music like a whole jigsaw puzzle, the more modes, scales, rudiments and instruments I learn, the more I understand about other instruments, and scales and modes and what not. I have heard from many 4 year univ Music Grads that most of what they learn would never make it any grooveable music most people can listen to easily. So basically I am being a picky bastard. I don't want to learn just a 1 year of recording, and I don't want to learn 4 years of intense music stuff. haha. A 2.5 year Bachelor with Major in Audio Technology is probably my happy medium. I can learn lots more theory, understand music more and also learn how to record professionally. Now I am just wondering where else offers this kinda thing. I guess I better not fuckup on my Sibelius application... - Mon, 11 Jun 2007 5:01pm | ||
| Tyler User Info... | UVic has a "combined major in music and computer science" which has a heavy focus on computer science. There are about four really knowledgable faculty members on the various topics related to technology in music (recording, electrical engineering, computers in music). I used to be in the program, which can give you a BSc, but I really wasn't interested in the heavy focus on programming and math. There is also a music option in electrical engineering, or the option to major in music yet take recording/computer music electives. I ended up going for a minor in music, just taking the interesting courses related to recording and such. I'm pretty happy with my choice... my major is in nonfiction writing which is another huge interest of mine. Good luck with things! What is your highschool transcript like? - Mon, 11 Jun 2007 6:46pm Edited: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 6:47pm | ||
| Tim-Bitchfork User Info... | Not so amazing. I am bad at math. C+s all over the place. Thats cool, I would really hate to do math and programming though. That is really not relevant for me at all. I am gunna keep looking around University is too expensive to pay for parts of courses you have no use or interest in. I guess any course I find may have that though. - Mon, 11 Jun 2007 9:28pm Edited: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 9:30pm | ||
| Tyler User Info... | With a C+ transcript and not being interested in four year programs, I don't think a degree is the kind of thing you're looking for. But a shorter, practical sort of program is probably right up your alley. There must be somewhere in Vancouver with that. - Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:04pm | ||
| Matteus User Info... | with those marks and a poor understanding of math, combined with your desire to do what you want... DONT GO INTO SCHOOL. train under several engineers instead so that you get a flavor from several. BEFORE even doing that, catch up on the reading for anything you might be expected to know. see if you can read up on it and commit to it. chapters and l&m will have what you will need, i am sure. wanting to do it and doing it are two different things. cheers matteus - Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:47pm | ||
| Tim-Bitchfork User Info... | I have been doing a decent amount of reading on recording, have been recording my band's demo for a while, just recorded at audio garage and tried to take in as much cool things they did. "bad at math" is kinda an overstatement, I passed Principals (the hardest of the three levels of math) 11 math and Applications (the middle one) 12 with a C+ or something, I would need to check. Did Physics 11 and 12 which was mathy, so I can do math, I just didn't really care about the square root of a parabola and all that crazy shit. I guess it's Sibelius or bust so far, their application doesn't even require any school transcript. Now thats a music university! I hear the apprentice idea too, and I like it. Worth asking some places I suppose. Thanks for all the ideas. - Tue, 12 Jun 2007 1:01am Edited: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 1:06am | ||
| KnifeGhost User Info... | Buddy up to Scott Henderson. Get him to show you the ropes. - Tue, 12 Jun 2007 1:54am | ||
| Tim-Bitchfork User Info... | uh...thats lonemonk? - Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:51am | ||
| wheate User Info... | I went to an Audio School, I got ripped off, I now pay 200 bucks a month paying for it. I do at present work within the live music industry but I would not reccomend going to a school. Save 12 grand and buy some gear, some books and get some friends to play for you. The only worthwhile aspect of that particular school waa making a few contacts which proved invaluable, other than that the whole year was a blast and really fun, but diplomas mean shit. Wish I had some cash to buy a neve pre. - Tue, 12 Jun 2007 9:17pm | ||
| Matteus User Info... |  not to say that you cant do it, but i have heard about half a dozen stories like WHEATE's that tell of spending STUPID amounts of money on "rock school of recording" only to come out with a diploma to rub off with once you're done.... if you're REALLY BENT on school and LEARNING... there's a college up in nelson that is supposed to be unreal for learning music. i dont know the name, but there's a damn good chance that they do music degrees in recording... once again, for the money that you spend on school, you could buy some sweet ass gear and reference material. i would like to say that i am kind of going through the same thing with photography. i COULD spend heaps of cash on school, but i have a strong enough passion that i am learning great on my own through trial and error. i have done audio recording to a degree and would like to say that both photography and recording arent that far off on the learning curve and style... cheers, matteus - Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:34pm | ||
| lonemonk User Info... | Zippgunn is Henderson, but I'm afraid I am keeping him too busy with my own apprenticeship needs. - Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:58am Edited: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:59am | ||
| J User Info... | if travel is what you want why not look into some american schools? berklee in boston, M.I.T. in L.A. both have great courses. I've been to a couple at Berklee and I'd have to say that they are probly the most competent teachers I've ever had. That said, im not dissing anyone in victoria or anywhere else; but if your looking for a full meal deal, then do it. Its expensive as all hell to go to berklee or mit, but the experience and the contacts you COULD make outweigh the costs, in my opinion. - Wed, 13 Jun 2007 2:36pm | ||
| laprider User Info... | Hey Tim, I think Andy ( wheate) hit it right on the head. The majority of "recording schools" are nothing but a cash grab. They will only garuntee you people not really taking you seriously. I work with tons of people that attended these schools, very few ever got a job because of it. Do you really want to take on a student loan ? I would suggest spending that money on gear and just slaving away. Recording is like playing, you get better over time. There are tons of discussion groups and people that are really willing to part with valuable info for nothing. If you are set on schools I would maybe suggest looking into Metalworks program in Toronto, that I know of it is the only school run by at least a legit studio. If you are really serious, just bug people...if you come accross like you are half intelligent and a reasonable person most people will let you help out if your willing to volunteer. Many a great engineer started out pouring coffee in a studio. You probably would have to move out of Vic as there are very few studios here that are more then a one man show....ie Multy rooms....hit up my buddy at Vogville sound in Van, see if you can offer your slave services to him? - Wed, 13 Jun 2007 4:10pm | ||
| Tim-Bitchfork User Info... | Thanks guys, It's great to hear some advice from some experienced people. All good points. I am looking at some legit schools though if i take that route. University of Sibelius in Finland is a purely music university who's enrolled student's tuitions are paid for by the Finnish Government. Yeah I know it sounds too good to be true, but I actually looked into it. The rent for apartments in Helsinki for 2.5 years would be like a tuition thought! LOL I don't think it's likely I'll get tricked into a cash scam or anything. I have been at a full-time job for almost 2 years and have probably years ahead of me at the same company, been doing recording and music on the side so I don't plan to go to any school that I haven't put tonnes of research into and made sure that the course will have any kinda of real application after, any time soon. I do hear what you are all saying and am gonna stay on the cautious side of that aspect too. I guess I gotta find the right opportunity. I do actually have a good set of gear (Soundcraft Mixer, Delta 1010 8mono in 8mono out, ART Fancy Tube Mic Pre, Alesis Reverb/Effects, Alesis Compressor, a keyboard, synth module, few VSTis, peavey rockmaster guitar pre, some basic mics, nice set of 3-way bookshelves) to play around with. I guess I am just stuck in that "get a degree to go anywhere in life" kinda attitude our high schools preached to me, although sometimes it does hold true for some things. I will keep letting my gear teach me for now, it's just doesn't seem the same for some reason tho. I'll see what I can find out, your opinions as always are greatly appreciated! :) Im going to ask around some more see what I can find. - Wed, 13 Jun 2007 5:04pm | ||
| Tyler User Info... | Berklee was mentioned. I'm pretty sure enrolling in a program there requires an AMAZING highschool transcript and I think it costs tens of thousands of dollars a year. - Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:49am | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | I get the general drift that having some sort of diploma or "degree" is of prime importance here, perhaps to keep a parent happy? The school route is generally useless and VERY EXPENSIVE; I have heard way too many horror stories about these so called "sound universities" which churn out ill equipped tyros and throw them into situations that they had never dreamed of. You already have way more gear than I had when I started out; your job now is to get out and use it. Record every band that you like and always compare it to the records/CD's that you think sound good. It is so cheap nowadays to set up a really good simple recording rig that just about anybody with ears can make a great recording. Pity that schools can't teach ears. - Thu, 14 Jun 2007 1:13pm | ||
| Vegas J User Info... | I'm with Scott! - Thu, 14 Jun 2007 2:19pm | ||
| Tim-Bitchfork User Info... | Cool thanks i am seeing a re-ocurring don't gp to school theme here, lol. I will try to record some bands soon enough, once I am done recording my band's album! I think i will start recording bands after I fool around a little more and learn a few more tricks and also have a space to actually do it, heh. Lately I've just been using my art pre into my interface to learn how to just make simple things like vocals and acoustic sound they best, my effects, compressor and guitar pre units are part of my guitar rig so i've been keeping it simple lately. I have had tonnes of fun learning this Yamaha TG33 vector synth that my keyboard is hooked up to too! Yeah I guess I just didn't really know how great audio engineers get up there in the business, i guess I just assumed that school was that way but apprenticing and experimenting makes sense too. Thanks again. - Thu, 14 Jun 2007 4:14pm | ||
| J User Info... | tyler, bout the berklee thing... no you dont need an amazing highschool transcript, i was accpeted; but yes it is indeed expensive, not to go to the school itself, but to live there is the most expensive part. Boston is a great city but much like here rising housing costs put a damper on international students living there. Tutition to Berklee in boston is about 20,000$/year(includ. books, etc...) which means about 100,000 investment on your future. Whether you can make something of it; thats up to you, but they certainly provide the means for you there i garentee that(tho like i said, it was too much money for me to invest lol) good luck tim on your findings, Id be intrested to know what route you go!(as im sort of curious about audio engineering, but mostly as a hobbie) - Thu, 14 Jun 2007 5:27pm | ||
| Matteus User Info... | yeah Tim! much like my photography portfolio speaks for my ability, not a university degree, the same will apply to you. bands, artists and musicians will listen to your final products and take that as your ability, not a piece of paper. I did alot of research into photography recently and after speaking to about 20 photographers, its 50/50. half went to school, half didn't. all were equally amazing. network a little and talk to some studios. if you can get a hold of a band here in vic called NOVEMBER RISING, they had their CD recorded at a audio engineering school in VANCOUVER, just in case you're still bent on school. (its a great tax write off, esp. if you have free school money to burn) cheers, matteus - Thu, 14 Jun 2007 5:34pm | ||
| Mi*coll* User Info... | i think that you can learn a ton on the web, especially at places like http://www.gearslutz.com/board/ , http://bamaudioschool.com/ , http://www.ethanwiner.com/articles.html , and http://www.prosoundweb.com . with resources like those (plus many, many more available on the web), i don't really see the point of school. but then again, you might, so do what you think is best. mike - Mon, 25 Jun 2007 1:08am | ||
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