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How Much is Enough (performance fee discussion)
| Message Board > General Chitchat > How Much is Enough (performance fee discussion) |
| Vincent F. Evans User Info... | This post is intended to provoke serious discussion (and hopefully promote increased awareness) about the current state of performance fees and perhaps, even improve things over time. It would seem that, in and around Victoria at least, a typical rate is $100 per performer. In other words, if you are a solo artist, you get $100 and if you are a duo, $200, a trio, $300, etc. This is even true for some upscale venues, where dinner and drinks for two would easily cost $100 - $200. Obviously, established artists with solid reputations often receive more (rightly so) but are groups likely to be able to stay together and keep working long enough to establish themselves if they are not paid decently? How do you feel about being paid less than what the venue's staff make for a day's work, or what a good waitress/waiter takes home in tips on a good Friday or Saturday night? Is this fair or satisfactory? If not, what do you think could be done to improve the situation for everyone? How much do you think musical performers should be paid for an evening's work? How much are all those years of learning, practicing, refining and rehearsal worth? How much is all the energy, money and time spent promoting worth to you? How long did it take you to be able to pay for your instruments, equipment, maintenance and transportation? How do you feel about tearing down thousands of dollars worth of gear, packing it up, transporting, unloading, setting it up, performing, tearing it down, repacking, reloading, transporting, unpacking, etcetera, etcetera, for a day’s expenses, or less? Should performers be paid on the basis of how many minutes or sets they perform? Should they be paid the same as typical retail staff (typically about $80 per 8 hour day)? Should they be paid the same as a typical construction labourer (typically about $120 per 8 hour day)? Should having a commercially available, professional CD have any bearing on the performance fee? How do you feel about "professionals" who are willing to play for free or for donations and/or perks - does it adversely affect those dependant upon performance income for basic living expenses? I look forward to reading your comments. Yours in Pursuit of Mutual Higher Advantage, Sincerely, Vincent F. Evans. - Fri, 30 Oct 2009 1:45pm | ||
| Tyler User Info... | Obviously, established artists with solid reputations often receive more (rightly so) but are groups likely to be able to stay together and keep working long enough to establish themselves if they are not paid decently? yes How do you feel about being paid less than what the venue's staff make for a day's work, or what a good waitress/waiter takes home in tips on a good Friday or Saturday night? music isn't work Is this fair or satisfactory? yes If not, what do you think could be done to improve the situation for everyone? n/a How much do you think musical performers should be paid for an evening's work? any travel costs, some food, and a place to stay - if they're travelling. if local, whatever there is to spare. How much are all those years of learning, practicing, refining and rehearsal worth? nobody owes a musician for their training How much is all the energy, money and time spent promoting worth to you? the joy of seeing a live band. How long did it take you to be able to pay for your instruments, equipment, maintenance and transportation? who cares, I got what I needed out of them. How do you feel about tearing down thousands of dollars worth of gear, packing it up, transporting, unloading, setting it up, performing, tearing it down, repacking, reloading, transporting, unpacking, etcetera, etcetera, for a day’s expenses, or less? it's fun. Should performers be paid on the basis of how many minutes or sets they perform? nope. Should they be paid the same as typical retail staff (typically about $80 per 8 hour day)? no. Should they be paid the same as a typical construction labourer (typically about $120 per 8 hour day)? no. Should having a commercially available, professional CD have any bearing on the performance fee? no. How do you feel about "professionals" who are willing to play for free or for donations and/or perks - does it adversely affect those dependant upon performance income for basic living expenses? they have a good attitude. sorry if anyone disagrees with me, this is what I believe. no musician is owed a living. if they can manage it, they deserve it for being able to pull out of the crowd. too many people consider themselves professionals and like they deserve more. - Fri, 30 Oct 2009 4:51pm | ||
| Steel Beach User Info... | You would be surprised on how much less bands play for than that! You usually only get decent money if you carry an established crowd with you like a Current Swell, or Saul however if you only do your own music and don't cater to the bars that only want to hear Sweet Home Alabama you are not going to get paid until you make a name for yourself....but alas I have a cure for that... if you want to know more about it check out my site http://www.myspace.com/masterjodapromotions - Fri, 30 Oct 2009 8:47pm | ||
| Doc User Info... | Tyler's altruism not withstanding, I think that performers should be paid more. I remember playing bar shows 15 years ago for $100/performer + bar tab. Here we are 15 years later, and I see bands come in and play at a bar for about the same, usually a smaller bar tab than we used to get, yet the cost of living is astrnomically higher than it was back then. I gave up music as a living because I simply couldn't get enough work to support my family. As far as redress for the issue, I have no ideas, but I do think that something should be done. ~Sex, drugs and...more sex. Doc - Fri, 30 Oct 2009 9:17pm | ||
| Tyler User Info... | blame my naivety and the diy attitude of the music I love. I can see how my ideals don't apply to a mediterranean guitar duo playing at fancy beach-side restaurants to rich tourists who are trying to throw their money away. but from the young punk/hardcore perspective... I'm just used to being the guy paying touring bands their ferry money, money that's originally derived from the careful hands of kids who don't have much to spend in the first place. if these bands had a sense of entitlement to a big guarantee, especially if they were unknown, I'd consider it quite selfish. touring and playing locally as a fresh/unknown band is for the exposure. exposure isn't even the best word. it's to find that handful of people who really like your music, will remember the show forever, listen to your album in their bedrooms, etc. and maybe spread the word. if you start getting begged to tour, selling thousands of your albums, etc, maybe that's when you can start to consider taking a bit of time off your ACTUAL job. but if you're playing comfort music that suits weddings, special events, restaurants, or whatever else has a lot of money to throw away... barter away. I have no experience to offer in that situation. I have a few friends in jazz combos who seem to make a lot for those sorts of things. - Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:49pm Edited: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:51pm | ||
| Anchor User Info... | I think that bands that play for "exposure" only are to blame for the low/no pay scale. Stingy bar owners have realized that they do not have to pay a lot of bands anymore, because they our giving you the "opportunity" for some exposure. On the other hand though, if you can bring people in that are going to buy drinks and dance, most owners are reasonable. Punk and Hardcore aside, most of the time exposure has little to do with anything. It's usually more about who you know, how you market your self and being in the right place at the right time. Unless you sell your soul to play covers its a tough gig. - Sat, 31 Oct 2009 9:38am | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | I'll say it again. Bands are owed money for playing show in correlation to the crowds they bring in. This is why the door model is fair and workable. Moving gear is in fact work. Toiling over writing music is work. Working to make money to pay for all the jam spot rent and gear is work. Don't let anyone convince you differently. It is all fun as well, but I don't think there is anything wrong with music generating enough income to make things break even. - Sat, 31 Oct 2009 1:01pm | ||
| Codine Vandal User Info... | damn right...breaking even would be great.as long as you can play for free nothing else really matters - Sun, 1 Nov 2009 12:18pm | ||
| Ching User Info... | Many good points have been made. There is a lot to learn about music. If you are willing to put in work & learn about how to sound better, whatever genre you find yourself in, that ought to show & count. I think it does. - Sun, 1 Nov 2009 5:16pm | ||
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