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Canada's tolerance misplaced
| Message Board > General Chitchat > Canada's tolerance misplaced |
| BBJones User Info... | Some interesting points... *************************** Canada's tolerance misplaced By Mahfooz Kanwar, For The Calgary Herald - March 30, 2009 Canada's Immigration Minister Jason Kenney is getting flak from the usual suspects, but he deserves praise instead. Recently, Kenney pointed out that while at a meeting in Toronto, members of Canada's Pakistani community called on him to make Punjabi one of Canada's official languages. It makes me angry that such an idea would enter the minds of my fellow and former countrymen, let alone express them to a Minister of the Crown. A few months ago, I was dismayed to learn that Erik Millett, the principal of Belleisle School in Springfield, N. B., limited playing our national anthem because the families of a couple of his students objected to it. As a social scientist, I oppose this kind of political correctness, lack of assimilation of new immigrants to mainstream Canada, hyphenated-Canadian identity, and the lack of patriotism in our great nation. Increasingly, Canadians feel restricted in doing things the Canadian way lest we offend minorities. We cannot even say Merry Christmas without fear of causing offence. It is amazing that 77 per cent of the Canadian majority are scared of offending 23 per cent of minorities. We have become so timid that the majority cannot assert its own freedom of expression. We cannot publicly question certain foreign social customs, traditions and values that do not fit into the Canadian ethos of equality. Rather than encouraging new immigrants to adjust to Canada, we tolerate peculiar ways of doing things. We do not remind them that they are in Canada, not in their original homelands. In a multicultural society, it is the responsibility of minorities to adjust to the majority. It does not mean that minorities have to to-tally amalgamate with the majority. They can practise some of their cultural traditions within their homes --their backstage behaviour. However, when outside of their homes, their front stage behaviour should resemble mainstream Canadian behaviour. Whoever comes to Canada must learn the limits of our system. We do not kill our daughters or other female members of our families who refuse to wear hijab, niqab or burka which are not mandated by the Qur'an anyway. We do not kill our daughters if they date the "wrong" men. A 17-year-old Sikh girl should not have been killed in British Columbia by her father because she was caught dating a Caucasian man. We do not practise the dowry system in Canada, and do not kill our brides because they did not bring enough dowry. Millions of female fetuses are aborted every year in India, and millions of female infants have been killed by their parents in India and China. Thousands of brides in India are burned to death in their kitchens because they did not bring enough dowry into a marriage. Some 30,000 Sikhs living abroad took the dowries but abandoned their brides in India in 2005. This is not accepted in Canada. In some countries, thousands of women are murdered every year for family or religious honour. We should not hide behind political correctness and we should expose the cultural and religious background of these heinous crimes, especially if it happens in Canada. We should also expose those who bring their cultural baggage containing the social custom of female circumcision. I was shocked when I learned about two cases of this barbaric custom practised in St. Catharines, Ont. a few years ago. I have said it on radio and television, have written in my columns in the Calgary Herald, and I have written in my latest book, Journey to Success, that I do not agree with the hyphenated identity in Canada because it divides our loyalties. My argument is that people are not forced to come to Canada and they are not forced to stay here. Those who come here of their own volition and stay here must be truly patriotic Canadians or go back. I am a first-generation Canadian from Pakistan. I left Pakistan 45 years ago. I cannot ignore Pakistan, because it is the homeland of my folks, but my loyalty should be and is to Canada. I am, therefore, a proud Canadian, no longer a Pakistani-Canadian. I am a Canadian Muslim, not a Muslim Canadian. I do not agree with those Canadians who engage in their fight against the system in their original countries on Canadian soil. They should go back and fight from within. For example, some of the Sikhs, Tamil Tigers, Armenians and others have disturbed the peace in Canada because of their problems back home. Recently, a low-level leader of MQM, the Mafia of Pakistan, came to Canada as a refugee and started to organize public rallies to collect funds for their cause in Pakistan. On July 18, 2007, the Federal Court of Canada ruled that MQM is a terrorist group led by London-based Altaf Hussain, their godfather. As a member in the coalition government of Pakistan, this terrorist group is currently collaborating with the Taliban in Pakistan. That refugee was deported back to Pakistan. Similarly, I dis-agree with newcomers who bring their religious baggage here. For example, Muslims are less than two per cent of the Canadian population, yet in 2004 and 2005, a fraction of them, the fundamentalists, wanted to bring sharia law to Canada. If they really want to live under sharia, they should go to the prison-like countries where sharia is practiced. I once supported multiculturalism in Canada because I believed it gave us a sense of pluralism and diversity. However, I have observed and experienced that official multiculturalism has encouraged convolution of the values that make Canada the kind of place people want to immigrate to in the first place. Here, we stand on guard for Canada, not for countries we came from. Like it or not, take it or leave it, standing on guard only for Canada is our national maxim. Remember, O Canada is our national anthem which must not be disregarded by anybody, including the teacher in Springfield, N. B. Mahfooz Kanwar, PHD, Is A Sociologist And An Instructor Emeritus At Mount Royal College. © Copyright (c) The Calgary Herald - Thu, 4 Jun 2009 8:37am Edited: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 8:40am | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | If you don't like the national anthem, why the hell did you come here? I say fuck off back to your homeland so you can enjoy your own little ridiculous song. - Thu, 4 Jun 2009 4:21pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... |  The new immigrants can amalgamate, or not, doesn't matter. Their kids will. - Thu, 4 Jun 2009 7:13pm Edited: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 7:13pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | This guy who is from Pakistan speaks the truth. Really though, it's these bleeding heart, "we'll bend over backwards for you few offended people while you teabag us" PC'ers. They should be shipped back to where these assholes are coming from along with said assholes. Then they can all live in their bizarre fuckhead world together. - Thu, 4 Jun 2009 7:32pm | ||
| TheBlack Pixie User Info... | AURG. I KNOW I SHOULD NOT EVEN COMMENT ON THIS BUT I MUST. When I eventually write my Phd thesis it will be on multiculturalism because I have spent the last 4 years studying Canadian multiculturalism. The biggest issue I take with the idea of "canada" "patriotism" and "multiculturalism" is the ultimate question of: what does it mean to be a Canadian? What defines being a Canadian? This article is asking immigrants to assimilate into Canadian cultural identity but refuses to define what the Canadian identity is. In the end, there is no Canadian identity- argue you with me all you want but there is no strict definition of being Canadian that all said "Canadians" can adhere to. Multiculturalism is problematic because it does not create equality, but rather more marginalization. Out of multicultarlism you get various groups labeled as minorities and along with that, stereotypes to go along with them such as under-developed, poor and ignorant. Multicultarlism was never seriously practiced in Canada because everyone wants to get their own way, have their own culture, their own opinions- and that is something that no culture can cater to because it is all a mater of individuality. I promote individuality and cooperation. A give and take as long as it does not infringe on our dearest moral values. Do we really hold the Canadian antheme that close to our heart? will riots break out just because a school choose to limit its playing? No. So stop moaning and groaning about something you really didn't value too much until you found out a bunch of immigrants chose not to play it. Oh I could go on forever.....why oh why did someone have to bring up multicultralism? I am on my summer vacation for christ sakes. - Thu, 4 Jun 2009 9:16pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | I love singing the anthem at Canuck's play-off games, when Mark Donnolly does it. 18,630 people singing in unison is an amazing experience. - Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:26pm | ||
| TheBlack Pixie User Info... | And I wonder how many of thoose 18,630 are immigrants..... - Fri, 5 Jun 2009 9:16am | ||
| BBJones User Info... | Seems to me the nature of being a Canadian is being reserved, not waving our flag in everyone's face like some other countries to the south I won't mention. But, beware if you provoke us. To me, being Candian is defined by NOT being like those other countries with their idiotic laws, beliefs, religious views and practices. Our governement is not run by God and our people want to live their lives in peace. So, don't try to walk into our country and turn it into your country. Leave your religious baggage on the doorstep and come on in. - Fri, 5 Jun 2009 9:21am | ||
| Nicholas Antoni Marek Gibas User Info... | Hey guys, whats your favourite sandwich toppings? Mine are hummus, olives, pepper, mustard and tomato. Maybe fry the tomato a bit. Very delicious. - Fri, 5 Jun 2009 11:21am | ||
| JDL User Info... | pixie, I think Molson summed it up quite well what it means to be Canadian.... Hey, I'm not a lumberjack, or a Furtrader, and I don't live in an igloo, or eat blubber or own a dogsled. And I don't know Jimmy, Sally or Suzy from Canada, although I'm certain they're really, really nice. I have a prime minister... not a president, I speak English and French, not American and I pronounce it About, not A-boot. I can PROUDLY sew my country's flag on my backpack, I believe in peacekeeping, not policing, diversity not assimilation, and that the beaver is a truly proud and noble animal. A toque is a hat, a chesterfield is a couch, and it IS pronounced Zed, not Zee... ZED!! Canada is the 2nd largest land mass, the 1st nation of hockey, and the best part of North America. My name is Joe... and...I......AM......CANADIAN! Thank you. - Fri, 5 Jun 2009 11:22am | ||
| RubberBox User Info... | Now if we could just add another national language and stop playing the national anthem I could smile while cashing my welfare cheque. - Fri, 5 Jun 2009 11:33am | ||
| TheBlack Pixie User Info... | I believe in leaving cultural baggage at the door to some extent. Is it not right that we protest other governments ill behavoir, or where vietnam protests in Canada just all together wrong (because that would be brining American problems to Canadian soil) Diversity- not assmilation. Like I said, a give-and-take level of tolerance - Fri, 5 Jun 2009 12:25pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | If you're Canadian, you've turned down a booty call during the post-season. You've worn a canoe as a hat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBCos2MlQ1Y - Fri, 5 Jun 2009 12:29pm Edited: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 12:33pm | ||
| Rack-A-Lamb-A-God. User Info... | A friend of mine..and some of you know him but I will not mention names..He has a family from, I think Pakistan living across the street and he goes over there and soot's the shit with him all the time.One day my friend(who is white but has a bit of color to him)and an other fellow(pail skinned)went over to talk to the guy cus he is fun to talk to...So my friend stretched out his hand and shook his hand and said "how's it going" .His friend (the whitest guy)stretched out his hand to do the same ...But got ..."No..No.. too white..too white..."and refused to shake his hand. - Fri, 5 Jun 2009 1:11pm Edited: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 1:13pm | ||
| Dr.DoomXXX User Info... | Hey JDL you know Molson sold out to the americans years ago right? Any way, as a Canadian who was born here 5th generation I think I can make my own decisions about patriotism with out having to ask anyone else for advice. To be honest I feel none. Maybe because I live next door to a coutry that can't shut up about they're own patriotism. Maybe because I see a lot in this country I just don't want to be associated with. But I think it's important that it be a decision left to the individual. Countless times people have started harmless little threads on this board just to say happy Canada day only to have th PC police respond in attempt to tear them a new one (You know who you are because you've done it so many times). The message was always the same. On Canada day every Canadian must hang their head in shame.......unless of course, if you're ethnic. PC extremists run the country. We walk on eggshells in fear of the dreaded combonation that someone be minority and offended. It's fucked up our politics and our judicial system. Being a certain race should never be an asset or liability. - Fri, 5 Jun 2009 3:10pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Fuck that. I've never been worried about offending anyone. Pansies. - Fri, 5 Jun 2009 4:16pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | 'or where vietnam protests in Canada' Canadians served in the Korean and Vietnam police actions. Canadians had every right to protest our being there. Should really educate yourself before shoving your entire leg down your throat... - Fri, 5 Jun 2009 4:54pm | ||
| TheBlack Pixie User Info... | Canada never declared war on Vietnam- troops were enver foricibly deployed, therefore it wasen't so much OUR issue, but an imported issue from the US- hence cultural baggage being placed in Canada At least I can reach my leg to my throat- go flexablity - Fri, 5 Jun 2009 5:25pm Edited: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 5:26pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | It was the UN that pretty much forced Canada into both police actions, not the americans. And the only reasons the US even cared was because the invaders were communists. Both police actions had nothing to do with cultural baggage. - Fri, 5 Jun 2009 5:42pm | ||
| TheBlack Pixie User Info... | The UN forced Canada? More like the USA forced Canada. The UN opposed the Vietnam war and since the USA and the USSR had/have power of veto and have the central power strangle hold on the UN- the UN could do nothing to prevent US entry into vietnam. It was US propoganada that started the Vietnam war- communism vs. capitalism, which something that wasen't Canadian but spilled on to Canadian soil. - Fri, 5 Jun 2009 9:22pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Idealistic propaganda. It was about keeping the U.S. tire manufacturers a cheap supply of raw material. Follow the money. - Fri, 5 Jun 2009 10:28pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Yes the UN forced Canada, as they always do. I will admit I'm wrong, concerning Vietnam, and the US was just doing their part as a member of SEATO. They were bound by the treaty to take arms against the N Vietnamese, as were numerous other nations who also signed the treaty. As the treaty was designed to stop communism from spreading in Asia. But of course we never hear about that. It's all about propaganda and American agenda. What about Britain, Australia, Bangladesh, France, New Zealand, Pakistan, Philippines, Suriname and Thailand? They also were involved in both actions and also signed the aforementioned treaty. But yeah, it was all American pressure. Do some homework you fucking sheep...jesus... The UN got Canadians involved in Korea, which started long before Vietnam. And Canadians just stayed deployed, as did a lot of American's in the carry over police action that was Vietnam. Every nutbag finds conspiracies even when there aren't any to find. And yes that was aimed directly at you TC. - Sat, 6 Jun 2009 1:00am | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | You sound like you do all your "homework" on Wikipedia. It's always about money, Chopper, always. - Sat, 6 Jun 2009 1:58am | ||
| Rack-A-Lamb-A-God. User Info... |  | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Actually my homework was done years ago, you have to take military history as part of training, as well as refreshers from numerous historical books. Wiki is for morons. And no, not everything is about money, especially if you were serious about tire companies and materials. Those same materials were available in S. America at the time and would've been far cheaper to acquire than the same product in Vietnam. Now if you want to talk about how much was made by contractors to make weapons, that would be the only case where it was a reality. Although WW2 made a lot more. - Sat, 6 Jun 2009 11:34am | ||
| trevor corey User Info... |  Did your history lessons teach you about the French involvement, long before the US? One word. MICHELIN. - Sat, 6 Jun 2009 12:40pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Actually Blackpixle, immigrants LOVE hockey. I'm not particularly nationalist, but still, proud. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y09YOkVmGg0 - Sat, 6 Jun 2009 12:54pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | France was involved in Korea, yes. Not Vietnam. And you're waffling a bit there TC. One minute it's the US wanting the rubber exports and then it's France, or Michelin since it's not a state owned corp. So, which is it? America or Michelin? - Sat, 6 Jun 2009 1:39pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | You are a moron http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th7tImvzutc - Sat, 6 Jun 2009 2:32pm Edited: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 2:44pm | ||
| RubberBox User Info... | Should really educate yourself before shoving your entire leg down your throat... - Sat, 6 Jun 2009 2:59pm | ||
| TheBlack Pixie User Info... | The French weren't in Vietnam??? are you just trying to show off your lack of historical intelligence?? President Truman sent aide to the French who were fighting the vietminh and loosing terribly. South Vietnam was a part of French Indochina. Fearing a communist takeover, the USA got involved. - Sat, 6 Jun 2009 3:56pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | 1954 was the Korean Police action, not Vietnam. Vietnam didn't officially start until 1959. You were saying TC? Hopefully you're not relying on TV shows for education... Somehow I have a feeling some of you are getting the Korean action and the Vietnam action confused. France wasn't involved in Vietnam, they were involved in Korea. Edit: And I call them police actions, as they weren't wars. And still waiting for TC to inform me who I should have nightmares about at night, the Americans or Bib the Michelin man. - Sat, 6 Jun 2009 6:51pm Edited: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 7:13pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... |  A really dumb brick wall. - Sat, 6 Jun 2009 7:47pm Edited: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 7:59pm | ||
| Doc User Info... | Vietnam, then Indochina, was a French posession following World War II. The communists were rebelling against the French colonial government, and doing quite well I might add, prompting French aplication to the UN for assistance. This was denied. France then approached America, of which we are NOT the 51st state, and sought their aid, which was gladly given. So...yeah, France most decidedly was involved in Vietnam. However, Chopper is correct, sort of, that France was involved in Korea. The UN countries, other than the US, did send a limited number of troops to Korea but, the majority of the forces there, and I'm talking like 80% or so, were American, led by the ever inept General Douglas McArthur. ~Peace sells, but guns are cheaper. Doc P.S. Calling them police actions doesn't make you look smarter, it just makes you look like a knob. - Sat, 6 Jun 2009 8:00pm Edited: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 8:05pm | ||
| Nicholas Antoni Marek Gibas User Info... | You guys are off topic. Favourite sandwich toppings now!!! - Sun, 7 Jun 2009 7:42am | ||
| Chopper User Info... | 'P.S. Calling them police actions doesn't make you look smarter, it just makes you look like a knob.' Then call the UN knobs as well as every other country in the world. That the term for a non-sanctioned declaration of war is. - Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:54am | ||
| Chopper User Info... | 'You're like talking to a brick wall. A really dumb brick wall.' I know it's hard to answer the question. But please at least try. Maybe go view a few more history channel episodes and maybe you can provide the answer. America or Bib the Michelin man. Who's the bigger threat? - Sun, 7 Jun 2009 11:02am | ||
| Rack-A-Lamb-A-God. User Info... | Didn't you guys ever watch M*A*S*H*? War is lucrative for weapon manufactures.If the field tests go well for a particular weapon, then whatever country is testing it puts in a bid for an order.More bids are made to weapon manufactures in war time or after a weapon has been fully field tested. oh yeah to get back on topic, roast beef ..and some corn chips... - Sun, 7 Jun 2009 11:26am Edited: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 11:28am | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Cover that with taffy and we have a champion sandwich. - Sun, 7 Jun 2009 1:46pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | peanut butter, processed cheese slices, and garlic. with chips - Sun, 7 Jun 2009 2:52pm | ||
| evilkleg User Info... | I bet you guys think the Vietnamese actually attacked the US in the Gulf of Tonkin too. - Mon, 8 Jun 2009 2:01pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | no - Mon, 8 Jun 2009 2:24pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Chomper, I never said you should feel "threatened" by the Michelin Man, I was just trying to point out the real cause for the conflict. It was about rubber. To make tires. First the Japanese, then the French, then the Americans. .....brick wall. - Mon, 8 Jun 2009 2:41pm Edited: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:28pm | ||
| Master Zachary User Info... | As a thinking, rational person, I oppose the use of anecdotal evidence and un-cited figures to prove a latently xenophobic point. - Wed, 10 Jun 2009 3:55pm Edited: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 3:55pm | ||
| Rack-A-Lamb-A-God. User Info... | ....what...? - Wed, 10 Jun 2009 4:50pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | 'I was just trying to point out the real cause for the conflict. It was about rubber.' You haven't a clue what the 'real' cause was. Unless you're older than dirt and privy to what was said behind closed doors. That's what's wrong with conspiracy theorists, seeing things that aren't there. As I said early on in this useless discussion, the US could've gotten their rubber from S. America a lot cheaper than Korea/Vietnam. Transport alone makes getting it from a closer source more feasible and a hell of a lot cheaper. - Wed, 10 Jun 2009 9:49pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | then why hasn't the states invaded canada for our oil? Instead of the middle east? "Transport alone makes getting it from a closer source more feasible and a hell of a lot cheaper." so really this whole transport being cheaper thing is kinda not valid... but Im also not convinced that 'rubber' had ANY bearing as to why Vietnam was such a conflict of intrest for the states. - Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:06pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... |  | ||
| Chopper User Info... | That's because rubber had nothing to do with the conflict. And if our oil fields had the reserves of the middle east fields, and if our government didn't have their noses crazy glued to US asses, we could very well be in the same boat. And I'm going to laugh at the 1st person that uses the oil sands as an example. - Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:09pm | ||
| Doc User Info... | Not going to mention the oil sands, but I would like to point out that Canada is home to the single largest uranium deposit on earth. Kinda makes you a bit nervous with the world's largest uranium consumer sitting just to our south eh? ~Bend over, close your eyes, and brace yourself. Doc P.S. While the tar sands' production looks like a fart in a tornado next to the Persian Gulf, the quantity of oil comming out of there is certainly not to be laughed at. - Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:16pm Edited: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:17pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | The tar sands have an equal amount of oil reserve as Saudi Arabia. The difference is that is is harder to extract. - Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:27pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | lol lol - Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:00am | ||
| trevor corey User Info... |  I f you want someone to be afraid of when you sleep at night, lil chomper, be afraid of the man that wants to build more prisons to house Canada's potheads. - Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:06am Edited: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:12am | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Naw, the French and Americans are far more frightening with their ever tightening grip on world events. I'm sure their governments are rife with Illuminati. And a big LOL to the tartsands as they're not even remotely as profitable as the middle east oil fields due to expense of extraction alone. And having that nutsack as our Prime Minister is a wee bit scary. Not as scary as the morons who keep putting them in power. And they said the Western Canada Concept party would never amount to anything. Although they did have to be swallowed up by the Conservatives to make them 'palatable' to the majority of Canadian sheep. - Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:25am | ||
| Doc User Info... | I have much less concern about Harper than I did about Stephane Deion. That goof buggerred our country when he refused to resign as part of the proposed coalition. If hs'd just swallowed his pride and let Ignatieff take over the Liberal Party, then we probably wouldn't have a Conservative government right now, minority or otherwise. ~Vote NDP! Half-assed socialism is better than no socialism at all. - Thu, 11 Jun 2009 3:11pm Edited: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 3:11pm | ||
| TheBlack Pixie User Info... | Cheers and applause, Doc. My thoughts exactly - Thu, 11 Jun 2009 8:38pm | ||
| Lucius User Info... | Gee, you guys are all fucking assholes. When a fellow Canucklehead needs help, we help!! Nick, PM me and I'll help you build that sandwich bro! Cheers, Lucius PS: Blame Canada!!!! - Fri, 12 Jun 2009 12:07pm | ||
| Nicholas Antoni Marek Gibas User Info... | This thread. - Sat, 13 Jun 2009 4:15am Edited: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 11:58am | ||
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