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Live To Play
| Message Board > Music Chitchat - Heavy > Live To Play |
| Hoffa User Info... | This stream started in the McGillicuddy's/Steamers post but diverged from the main topic. I've taken the new thread and have continued it in this post. The new thread consisted of anti-pay-to-play arguements and utopian aspirations regarding venues and higher payment for musicians. Knife Ghost wished for a ?place that sells booze so it can have bands come play, rather than having bands come play so they can sell booze? Unfortunately no venue could exist off of the proceeds of music alone without being financially propped up by some rich benefactor. It?s Darwinism, if you artificially keep a scene or venue going that wouldn?t naturally survive is it legitimate? Does it really deserve to survive despite the fact that it can?t ensure it?s own survival unaided? Consider this, Bands with hit records in Canada can not make a living off album sales alone. They must tour and sell merch. So in a Country of 30 million (less than the state of California) we can?t generate enough sales to support our most famous home grown talent. How could a small city on an island support a number of bands to the point that they could live off their music? NoMeansNo are the only model we can refer to here, but they don?t reside here any longer and they always tour across the globe. What do you think? - Wed, 10 Sep 2003 1:47pm | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | you're dead. - Wed, 10 Sep 2003 4:11pm | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | Only NoMeansNo?!? What about Nelly Furtado, or Swollen Members, or HotHotHeat?!? Now sorry if I'm wrong here, but didn't Nelly Furtado sell more copies of her first album then NMN have all their albums combined?!? I'd rather be using a successful business model, rather then a somewhat successful model. Local venues are different here then venues in other cities, or so I was told. In Victoria, venues like Steamers book popular bands because it gets people into the door and makes profit, very rarely (with the exception of Logan's I think) will a club book an unknown band these days, but I'm possibly incorrect on this. Anyhow, my $0.02 worth.... - Wed, 10 Sep 2003 7:36pm | ||
| KnifeGhost User Info... | "Unfortunately no venue could exist off of the proceeds of music alone without being financially propped up by some rich benefactor." Yeah, I'm not saying it has to run fromt he proceeds of music alone... I'm saying it would exist on the proceeds of music and booze..... - Wed, 10 Sep 2003 8:43pm | ||
| The Mad Subwoofer User Info... | Hmmm....actually, the Wright bro.s buisiness plan has provided an excellent model for many a Victoria band. Their DIY approach has allowed them to maintain not only full artistic control over their product but also an extremely low overhead and full rights to their material. Rather than going the quick and easy route that so many young bandsyearn for (i.e. big record contracts, quota's, etc.) they chose a guidline that took into consideration the bigger picture. So many tales of woe from bands who end up becoming no more than slaves of the corporation....unhappily working off the details of their contract. In the end I know that NMN will have come out with far more to show for their troubles than most. - Wed, 10 Sep 2003 9:53pm | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | I totally agree, so how come they don't get played on local radio?!? Hell, I'd kill fer a Hanson Brothers song, oh speaking of which... http://www.justconcerts.com/concerts/concert.cfm?Concert_Id=99&Act_Id=145&Concert_IsLive=0 - Hanson Brothers in Studio. Tested and it rox!!! Yeah, too bad The Hanson's don't release a live CD... :( Oh yeah, speaking of which, clubs have to pay CanCom (I think) to host a band who's members are part of that organization. I heard it the other night, and it surprized me. - Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:09pm | ||
| Chris Logan User Info... | "Oh yeah, speaking of which, clubs have to pay CanCom (I think) to host a band who's members are part of that organization. I heard it the other night, and it surprized me." It's SOCAN, actually, and the club has to pay it whether or not any of the musicians are registered. Clubs have to pay out to SOCAN for CD's played as background music, Karaoke, and Open Mike, as well. - Thu, 11 Sep 2003 2:20pm | ||
| Hoffa User Info... | Hmm, lot's of lively debate here. "Local venues are different here than venues in other cities, or so I was told." - Griphin I have lived in Edmonton, Vancouver, San Diego and Victoria and there is always some adventurous sort who will be hip to the real scene and support the bands but Logan's is the best I've seen out of all the places I've lived. There were a few places in Edmonton way back that would let you keep 100% of the door but no one would show up so bands made nothing anyway. Of course the all ages thing is very different, but I'm too old to play those shows now. "I'm saying it would exist on the proceeds of music and booze" - Knife Ghost I fail to see how this is different than what exists presently. Madsubwoofer said it well. When I describe local bands making a living I absolutely do not mean fairy tale label acts like H.H.H. and N.F. That's not reality. Consider those people lottery winners. As well they don't earn there living here in town do they? They are continental, a different level. They may have been raised here but that's the past. "Oh yeah, speaking of which, clubs have to pay CanCom (I think) to host a band who's members are part of that organization. I heard it the other night, and it surprised me" - Griphin Griphin it is CanCon with an "n". It stands for Canadian Content and is a mandate by the CRTC (Canadian Radio and Television Council). The CRTC is a governmental type body like the FCC in the States, it regulates radio and TV licenes as well as broadcasting in general. In the 1960s the CRTC handed down a ruling that of all broadcast content in Canada 33.3% had to be Canadian either in production or subject matter, artist or combinations there of. (Check out the MAPL logo found on Canadian CDs indicating Canadian content in Manufacture, Artist, Publishing or Production and I can't remember what the "L" stands for either) I believe you are confused with socan. Bars are supposed to pay fees for canned music and provide play lists of the bands so that socan can sort out who gets royalties. (socan is partly funded by radio licensing fees and blank tape and CDR taxes in order to pay out royalties). In the old days artists could provide proof of a show they played and prove that they charged a certain ticket price and supply socan with a set list and they could conceivably collect royalties if they were registered with socan. These days you have to have an actual release to be registered with socan. This is all very complicated to explain here. Suffice it to say you should do a little investigating before you repeat that bit of info you mentioned about CanCon. Join the PMIA (Pacific Musician Industry Association) and they'll be happy to fill you in on some of this stuff, they also hold info seminars. Also Bands like the Hanson Bros. don't get airplay on commercial radio because they don't employ Independent promoters. It's the modern payola. Search the web for a story on Clear Channel + Independent promoters and prepare to be shocked. Also, listen to CFUV and CKMO if you want to hear the Hanson Bros. and NoMeansNo. and as for RossBay, bring it on anytime cockbreath, but don't forget to wipe the sailor cum off of your face so you can see my fist cleave your face right off your fucking skull tough guy. You just stick to typing behind your pussy little computer and don't let you fingers write cheques your fists can't cash. - Thu, 11 Sep 2003 5:18pm | ||
| Chris Logan User Info... | Hoffa, just so people know, clubs are legally required to pay a percentage of the gross paid out to live bands, whether or not those bands are registered with SOCAN. The money goes into a big pot and is paid out as royalties to anyone registered with SOCAN or an international affiliate. So, local bands, just think--in a small way, you're contributing to Celine Dion's yearly paycheque! By the way, we pay our yearly SOCAN fees ourselves. I can't really see taking 3 or 4 bucks away from some band who's made $100, though it really does add up over the course of a year. And thanks for saying nice things about our booking policies--I like to think we take some chances, though in the end, of course, we have to make money to stay open. That capitalism thing that's been going on for a while now... - Thu, 11 Sep 2003 9:23pm | ||
| KnifeGhost User Info... | "I'm saying it would exist on the proceeds of music and booze" - Knife Ghost "I fail to see how this is different than what exists presently." - Hoffa What exists presently (generally) is that bars have bands and sell booze to make money..... What I'm talking about is a venue that makes enough money to stay open so that it can host shows, and sells beer to help pay the rent... The distinction may seem fine, but to me the difference is pretty important.... A venue that exists to host shows (and makes money just to do that) would be more committed to treating bands well, taking chances on newer and smaller bands, making sure touring bands get at least enough to make it worth their while to show up, and so on..... Chris Logan seems to be running, to a great degree, from that philosophy..... Certainly more than anyone else in town..... Lucky does a pretty good job, too..... Most venues exist to make money, and host bands because they'll bring people in..... Operating from that model, they would be less inclined to give newer bands a break, there might be a few bucks that disappear between the door and the office *cough*, and so on...... - Fri, 12 Sep 2003 3:52am | ||
| dave User Info... | Bands shouldn't act like little babies. "Wow we planned a tour & didn't make money" either be ok with that or get a better buisiness plan. - Fri, 12 Sep 2003 2:10pm | ||
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