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Recordin Studios
| Message Board > General Chitchat > Recordin Studios |
| D | I'm trying to find a good recording studio around Victoria. I want good quality sound. I heard stuff recorded at Electric Mountain, Infinity Studios and Sea Coast and I want better. Is this all your gonna get in Victoria? - Tue, 17 Jun 2003 9:24pm | ||
| alastair // User Info... | Hey man you should talk to Hayden at Mindless Studios.. He's awesome and he has a good ear for things. Great equipment and an easy going attitude that makes recording comfortable. Give him a call he's looking for some new projects. Hayden - Mindless Studios: 995-1928 He did our song "morning call" at http://www.mp3.com/undergo but his newer stuff is even better quality. - Tue, 17 Jun 2003 9:30pm | ||
| weezer | http://www.fullcirclestudios.ca They don't have anything online but you can hook up with them to check it out 478-0767 and ask for either Darryl, Danny, or Chris. I have heard recordings they have and the production quality is killer. - Tue, 17 Jun 2003 9:43pm | ||
| Anonymous | 'I heard stuff recorded at Electric Mountain, Infinity Studios' if all you heard were .mp3's online, you haven't heard an accurate gauge of sound quality. - Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:00pm | ||
| Anonymous | I have both The Armchair Cynics CD's. I love the band and the cd's are great, I just personally want better quality. - Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:39pm | ||
| ticklefish | if you want better quality, i hope you have money. Most people have no idea how much time it takes to do the tracking to get the right sound, how much time it takes to edit it, mixing, mastering.... - Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:55pm | ||
| Anonymous | Rick Salt at Island Pacific Sound in Nanaimo. - Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:07pm | ||
| MethodAir User Info... | D, what band are you in? A lot of the top bands in the city record with Zander, and seem to be pretty happy with the end result (which generally is not mastered). I've heard Ken and Armchair's new cd, which I thought sounded good also, although hearing a mix off 2" is something different altogether. http://www.electricmountain.com - Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:29pm | ||
| Doug Simpson User Info... | Pacific Coast Digitial studio Parksville CHECK OUT Doug Simpson's CD Where Angels Run. Great production with great music and vocals. http://www.cdbaby.com http://www.insidetheguitar.com song samples may be heard. Cheers Rudi - Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:31am | ||
| Infinity | What can sound better on the cynics cd? I think the snare definately could be a lot better and the guitars are a bit shrill at times. Wish I had a better room and a neve, but I have to make the best of what I have. I am always open to critisism. -Adam (250-704-6982) - Wed, 18 Jun 2003 1:26am | ||
| Anonymous | Hey Adam. I totally wasn't meaning to criticise you. I know who you are and I think you're great. I'm just trying to see what's out there. - Wed, 18 Jun 2003 4:52pm | ||
| Anonymous | ... it sounded like a diss though, "wanting better quality". for one, it helps to know how much the cynics budget was. Most of the improvement in sound comes with extra time fiddling with mic placements, tracking, editing and mixing... you'd be suprised how much better it would have sounded if they had $ for another 8 hrs per song. You can't just walk into a studio with tunes in your head and walk out again a few days later with a fantastic CD unless you really know what sound you are after and know how to communicate that to the engineer or producer, otherwise you are at their mercy of deciding what sounds best on you, and on a limited budget only so much fiddling can be done. - Wed, 18 Jun 2003 5:08pm | ||
| Infinity | No offense taken whatsoever. Probably the best bet for affordable "pro quality" would be to track drums in vancouver and do the rest here. Either that or try with John Boris. He did the Belt disc and the drums sound awesome on that. There are many people in town that can do great work with guitars, bass, vox, etc. - Wed, 18 Jun 2003 6:07pm | ||
| Anonymous | and hiding behind an alias gives him even less credibility. - Wed, 18 Jun 2003 6:09pm | ||
| RSBF User Info... | i can't wait to show off the drum tracks for Threat Of The End's recordings at Full Circle. my honey is a god in the control room ; ) - Wed, 18 Jun 2003 6:49pm | ||
| MethodAir | 'best bet for affordable "pro quality" ' It's common knowledge that without very expensive outboard gear and A/D convertors, digitally recorded drums will sound thin and shrill. Every client who has recorded with Zander has chosen 2" over 24 bit digital because it is so much warmer and fuller. http://www.electricmountain.com - Wed, 18 Jun 2003 7:49pm | ||
| Infinity | Hey let's not start that digital vs analog debate again.. - Wed, 18 Jun 2003 8:02pm | ||
| Anonymous | Though, I do think Zander gets some nice warm drums.. No doubts there.. - Wed, 18 Jun 2003 8:04pm | ||
| RSBF User Info... | hey MethodAir - please, stop, you're making me laugh REAL hard. i would so love to hear you describe our drum tracks as you did above after listening to them in my car CD player. i think you need to think that one over again before saying that because you're looking VERY silly right now. your statement is completely unfounded when taking our drum tracks into account EVEN BEFORE THEY WERE MIXED! i invite you to receive a free disk from me - i'll even drop it off at any location you wish ... so you can take a listen and try to repeat what you said above. seriously, where can i drop a disk off for you? you can reach me anytime on my cell at 889-0228 or simply post where i can drop one for you ; ) - Wed, 18 Jun 2003 8:46pm | ||
| RSBF User Info... | furthermore - in addition to the drum tracks Christer did for my band, i also welcome you to take a listen to what Danny Deane has got for Gorilla Monsoon's (Death Metal Dave) drum tracks. Full Circle may not have what Zander has but that does not mean that sound production is hopeless going digital. - Wed, 18 Jun 2003 8:51pm | ||
| Darth Vader | holy megalomanic! - Wed, 18 Jun 2003 9:11pm | ||
| Anonymous | yea, but she's exciting when she's mad. That kind of passion translates to the bedroom. - Wed, 18 Jun 2003 9:14pm | ||
| MethodAir | It's relative. I don't have a bias against digital. In fact, the drum solo of me at: http://www.electricmountain.com/html/electricMPThrees.html was recorded through a DV cam mic at 48kHZ digital. If you play well, that can come across either way. I'm just recognizing certain limitations which are generally acknowledged to exist, without very expensive workarounds. - Wed, 18 Jun 2003 9:33pm | ||
| Elliot | Personally, I think that great sounds can be captured with analogue or digital, but Lythic Blue has been totally happy with the work ethic and quality recording with Zander at electric mountain. His setup is fantastic, and the rates are totally affordable. Check out 'white noise' at mp3.com/lythicblue I also think that the Armchair Cynics new CD sounds really good. Adam is constantly getting better at putting out quality recordings. - Thu, 19 Jun 2003 3:07am | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | Holy smoke, my bullshit detector just went off the scale! Well Mr. D, if you want better than the places you listed above you and your huge sack of money might be well advised to check out Zero Gravity (SSL board, 2" Otari book rate is REALLY high). Seacoast should be pretty good, but you say otherwise. Electric Mountain seems to be doing well with the "analog" crowd. Methinks you should just go to Van where you can delude yourself that you are getting better sound. Remember there are a LOT of very talented people here in Vic that live here because they like to, not because it's a hotbed of the music industry, and that you can get very good work done for half the cost of working in, say, Toronto. However I detect a certain amount of, let's call it attitude, where some nice Swedish furniture or some shiny exotic geegaws might make the difference to Mr. D. I run a totally messy digital studio full of good mikes, outboard gear and tons of cool instruments and amps, and am booked solid throughout the summer, just the kind of place that I suspect Mr. D wouldn't be caught dead in. Perhaps just as well... - Thu, 19 Jun 2003 2:22pm | ||
| wayne User Info... | Zero Gravity is a pretty studio with lots of nice gear, for the money you pay there it would benefit to bring your own engineer/producer to get quality out of the enviroment. musicianship is key also. unless your real good it will always show in you recordings. Having an engineer that understands what you want you music to sound like is a huge asset. We learned that having birds eye maple for wall finishing does absolutely no good if nothing else is clicking.I have my own studio with protools and a rack full of gear, but i'm an amature at best so we decided to use a pro studio. We did 80% of our upcoming album at Electric Mountain, Zander was able to acheive the sound we wanted and he proved him self to us before we went ahead with the project. But with out our tracks being mastered they didn't have full effect untill Larry at Mostyn Sound here in Victoria mastered it for us, now it sounds so much more pro. thats another thing we learned mastering is part of the whole process and should be factored into the project. just my two cents. - Thu, 19 Jun 2003 3:20pm | ||
| ticklefish | I like analog, I love digital. Most people who diss digital A) aren't aware that lots of outboard gear in the process is analog and warms tones considerably B) have never heard a really good digital recording (or aren't aware that alot of the stuff they already like is digital) C) have never seen what software plugins like Waves compressors and multiband processors, ANtares Tube, Vintage Tubewarmer, Tape simulators can do for the sound There are so many techniques and plugins to use with digital to give it that warmth that analog has. And finally a definite advantage of digital, is that many of the same things can be done at a fraction of the cost. Spend $1200 on Waves Gold 3.5 plugins and you get the equivalent signal processing power of more than $10,000 in outboard gear...and that translates to lower cost for the customer booking the studio. Analog and digital lead to the same place: good sounding music. They also need the same thing: good gear and an engineer and producer who know what the hell they are doing. - Thu, 19 Jun 2003 3:28pm | ||
| Anonymous | 'There are so many techniques and plugins to use with digital to give it that warmth that analog has.' You can't expect to download a 'Neve' or 'SSL' plugin simulator, and have your mix sound like it was tracked through a million dollar console. No offence, but it's a cheap simulation at best. - Thu, 19 Jun 2003 4:26pm | ||
| ticklefish | what on earth makes you think you can't track through a neve console into a digital interface? Most digital recording is still done through a console, how else do you get your signal routing? ANd if you ever heard what a MOTU, Delta 1010, or Aardvark Q10 interface sounds like, you would be perfectly happy with those if you wanted to forgo a mixer altogether. Shit, you still need to use mic preamps and sometimes outboard compressors on the signal before it even goes to whatever software recorder you are using, be it Protools, Cubase, Logic, or Sonar. We aren't talking about plugging a mic into a soundblaster card here when we talk digital, and that is what most digital panners think that the comparison is between. Signal path is just as critical in digital recording, it is still mic>preamp>(compressor/gate/limiter if needed)> soundcard. You have your choice of mic pres, it can either be straight into a Neve board, or whatever board you wish to use, into a standalone pre of your choosing, or into a pre built into the soundcard, and some of those are damn good too. - Thu, 19 Jun 2003 4:38pm | ||
| Anonymous | You missed the point. Your emulator software plugins will not give you the warmth and sound of the analog outboard gear and consoles used in high end studios. - Thu, 19 Jun 2003 4:52pm | ||
| Anonymous | During a recent conversation with Ron Obvious at Warehouse Studios, Ron said (for the 1000th time) that most large studios can't, and won't, track through a digital console. It has nothing to do with sound, it has to do with latency. Where you see the digital console is in the mixdown suite where latency isn't as much of a factor, and if it is, it can be fixed with delay. The pro studio world says "track on a Neve(analog), mix on an SSL(digital)" As an aside, the Warehouse has replaced all of their analog 2", and Sony 48 track digital machines with ProTools Mix24, and moving into the ProToolsHD very quickly. This is happening everywhere. 2" analog is esoteric. But it certainly sounds great, and I stil love it. - Thu, 19 Jun 2003 5:01pm | ||
| ticklefish | okay, this has turned into a digital vs analog argument where an analog user swears digital can never capture the same warmth, and a digital user who thinks that the two can be equally good. I am not going to argue if one sounds better than the other, but digital recording can be equally good. OF course it depends on the style of music, and what flavour you want your stuff to have. But to trash digital recording as second rate? You can stick to your guns, and I will stick to my ears. and in the end, you can do all your tracking through whatever console, preamp, processor you like. If you have a good A/D converter, run it into Protools or Cubase or Sonar, where it is infinitely easier to edit and hundreds of processing options are available at the click of a mouse (thereby saving clients time and money because you don't need all those outboard comps and processors), and then run the final mix out to 2" tape if tape saturation is critical to the sound you are after. If you did a project using strictly analog gear, and one like I described with good digital gear and good plugins, sure you would hear a difference between the two, but I would argue that you would frequently guess wrong as to which one was digital and which one wasn't. And in the end, if it sounds good, who gives a fuck what you used to get the sound out? If you want to be in business in the recording world today, you have to be damn competitive, be able to offer great quality. Digital helps keep your overhead way down, which means you pass the savings on to your clients. - Thu, 19 Jun 2003 5:03pm | ||
| ticklefish | as for the post above my last one, I agree, i wouldn't track through a digital board for the same reason (latency), but editing and processing in the digital realm is un-fucking-believable, which is why so many studios are moving to Protools, and there are other software packages moving up close, but Protools still has the halo around it. Logic, Cubase and Sonar all can compete IF you supplement them with good plugins. That is where Protools kicks their ass, is that killer plugins come with it. If you just buy SOnar, or Cubase off the shelf and don't add anything to it, it ain't gonna sound too good. But if you get the Waves bundles, soundforge, and a few other apps, you can squeeze some great stuff out of it. IN another 5 years or so, there will be a lot more than Protools being used in the top end studios. - Thu, 19 Jun 2003 5:59pm | ||
| Anonymous | The bottom line, places like The Warehouse are emulating the warmth of analog recording fairly convincingly in some cases. But to speak about a project digital studio, and a pro-digital studio like The Warehouse is ridiculous. The sound they are getting comes from a lot of factors, many of which place it out of the range of 99% of musicians out there, unfortunately. To expect to get a warm sound on par with these folks, or even close to 2" with a basic pro-tools setup and few plug-ins etc, is nothing more than wishful thinking. - Thu, 19 Jun 2003 6:33pm | ||
| ticklefish | I don't think for one second I was saying that a home digital studio or even a basic protools rig were the shit. It was simply an argument that whether you choose to go digital or analog, the fact of the matter is most of the time you will be doing both, some gear is digital, some is analog, and of course the high end studios aren't just doing it with a basic protools rig, it comes with the rooms themselves, the mics, the pres, the compressors, the mixers, the whole signal path, all sorts of outboard gear, and over and above all else a brilliant engineer. Now that we have described the kind of studio where Radiohead and Peter Gabriel and Mark Knopfler and the flavour of the month can afford to go, let's talk about the kind of studio people on LiveVic can afford to go to to get quality work done..... and the whole point was that it doesn't matter whehter you go digital or analog, you can get great work from either route, or you can get shit from either route. it all depends on the other gear in the signal path, and the experience of the guys who are engineering and producing. There is no "better" in the analog vs digital debate, there is only "the best for you and your project and budget"... and it can go either way. ANd I really wish someone would argue with me using a fucking name. I don't know if I am talking to 1 person or 10. Have some bbs brains and respect. - Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:50pm | ||
| Anonymous | No, 2" tape with great outboard and a good engineer sonically is going to be in another league to a project digital setup, that lacks the kind of gear a place like Warehouse has. Which is not to say a small digital setup cannot sound good with the right performance. It's just not in the same league. These guys are spending the big bucks (millions) on the best A/D convertors, SSL's, Neve's etc (and still often mastering to half inch tape) to attain the warmth of 2" analog, while cutting down on the hassles associated with it. And lower production costs means more profit for them, not a cheaper rate for the client. - Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:08am | ||
| Anonymous | UHHHH,......hey dud, I belive the owner IS the client at the Warehouse. Ya' Dork - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 1:51am | ||
| Elliot | To me the digital vs analogue debate here comes from one simple fact: anyone can start a digital studio. It takes a lot of money, time, and maintenance to start an analogue studio. Therefore, with local studios, an analogue setup is likely to be operated by a credible engineer (which I think is the key to any good recording) or someone with a lot of money and therefore great gear, or both, whereas 2 times out of 3 a digital studio is likely to be run by someone who doesn't know how to get good sounds. They both work. Most musicians don't care. - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 3:04am | ||
| Spark | ahh yes, the age old discussion of studios. unfortunatly, my rock star friends. real quality comes at a cost but 90% of the studios mentioned do a great job for a reasonable price. If you want something more your gonna have to go where the music industry is acually an industry and not just a "scene" - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:21am | ||
| Anonymous | check out the new Meatlocker Seven cd, or Radiant Leader's new cd coming out (both 2" analog). A/B test them to a project digital recording. Zero Gravity and Electric Mountain use both formats btw. - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:29pm | ||
| Anonymous | you analog turds can go fuck yourselves. there's nothing good about analog anything. You're all so fucking "local" i can't stand the stench of you. what the fuck do you actually know about recording? anything? you know nothing, you're plebes. you're in victoria assholes, that says it all. buy a ferry ticket,and go see it for real. - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:50pm | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | Elliot you are so wrong it's painful. Any idiot with $5000 can set up an analog studio; it just won't be as good as a 2" Studer or whatever. I have lost count of the number of 2" machines that have been offered to me for absolutely peanuts (Ampexes for$2G's, Studers for $5G's etc. all needing work but hey...). As we speak I have an analog 1/2" 8 track machine sitting in the corner taking up space because it still isn't anywhere near as usefull as a DA-88. It was free and I don't know what to do with it; it's a headache to sync it up to my digital gear and I need time code cards etc. As for an analog studio being a guarantee of aquiring a good engineer I think it would be more accurate to say that if you scratch the surface of any 2" studio in Vic you will find a rich father lurking in the background. Nowadays analog is the unique domain of a few select groups; metalheads who believe that it makes everything sound "fuller", "fatter" "ballsier"etc., "Audiophiles" (people who don't actually listen to music, they listen to GEAR) and old fogie jazz snobs. All of these people have one thing in common; a resistance to change and new technologies. Once again I will point out that in the type of music most sensitive to sound quality (classical) NOBODY works in analog; also no jazz labels of any note use digital any more. One place you ARE right is the maintenance angle: I know of nobody on the island that can service an analog 2" machine (or a DA-88 for that matter) and you haven't lived until you've tried to ship a Studer 2" to Vancouver for repair. The tape is getting harder and harder to find, and you usually have to buy a quantity in bulk; a considerable expense (I go to London Drugs for my tape!!). Analog gets scarcer and more expensive and more esoteric every day; digital is the opposite. Sure the new ML7 sounds great, but if they actually paid book rate to ZG it would have cost them tens of thousands of dollars to record a record that will almost certainly sell less than 5000 copies (I'm being optimistic!). It also took something like 18 months from start to finish to see the light of day; in the last 18 months I have recorded about 75 projects in my studio, most of which hit the street for sale(I've also played about 75 gigs during this period!). If time is money then analog is even MORE expensive than you think (takes 45 minutes a day just to calibrate the bloody things!). And for all you audio snobs who sneer at everyone else I will leave you with the one fact that has kept me away from high end analog; analog will not get much better, it is pretty much tapped out as a technology. They've fudged it with fancy new tape formulations (Ampex 456 f'rinstance) but the end is nigh. Digital will simply get better and better as storage technology and processing speeds get better and cheaper. So instead of 24/96 you will get 96/284 or whatever. I get the biggest laugh out of the analog studios in town who post wretched mp3's online to show off their studios; I mean in a perfect analog world you could just give people quick dubbed cassettes, it would be just as useful. But hey, what do I know, all I did was work a shitty day job for a coupla decades so I could build my studio to record my own stuff. I started with crap and slowly built up my little empire through sheer hard work and craft; now I have an international reputation because I concentrate on the music not the gear, on getting the most out of what gear I have and not how I can make my website look sharp for all the suckers out there. I am now booked solid for the entire summer, and in order to even start on my new solo project I have to book myself into my own studio starting in fucking September! Betcha those fancy analog studios are empty more often than not (they were when I visited a couple). - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 2:30pm | ||
| Wayne User Info... | Zippgun, can we all pat you on the back. Who cares if a band takes two years to record, or a weekend. i didn't realize there was a race on. For allot of people the music business is a hobby, fulltime jobs take up allot of there time, family , kids, mistress. i will not quit my present job to go work in the music business for next to nothing. so once a week we play rockstar if we want to record on 2" then thats what we want to do. if it takes a year or two, who cares it's all new to everyone else. We do it for our selves, if we sell some albums i'll be happy. - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 3:29pm | ||
| ML7Mike | First of all Zippy, the album took so long because Robb Toth had to keep bringing in actual paying acts ( not to say we didnt pay anything.. ) in order to keep the bills paid. This meant we had to step aside on more than one occasion, which of course slowed everything down. Granted, if we had paid by the hour, it would have cost us more, but it would have been done alot sooner. And 18 months is incorrect, the actual album was complete in 10 months, but it took us another 6 to get the mastering done, artwork completed and to get the money together for redupe. Secondly, I do beleive the bulk of his actual paying acts are CLASSICAL, all Americans, including one dude who keeps bringing his zillion dollar standup bass from NYC because the analog warmth combined with Zero Gravities maple ceilings and walls creates a warm sound that the guy claims he hadnt found anywhere in NYC (* not to mention exchange rate ) Now obviously ZG isnt big enough for a full classical ensemble, but I think he does certain key instruments which then get mixed down later into full tracks.. You'd have to ask him really.. But I do know CLASSICAL is something he is no stranger to. He also gets alot of digital jobs that want to mix on the SSL, such as Default who track digitally but dislike mixing on anything but SSL. Anyhow, I have no clue , Im just the guitar player.. Where are the rollies? - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 4:00pm | ||
| ML7Mike | Also, I dont remember any 45 minute per day calibrations EVER. Try 2 minutes to thread the tape once in awhile and maybe 30 mins to warm up the SSL at the very beginning of the project ( then it stays on ) - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 4:09pm | ||
| MethodAir | "All of these people have one thing in common; a resistance to change and new technologies." What a load of baloney. Zander and I chose 2" analog as the primary format for OUR music number one. It just so happens that the bands Zander records with like that sound also. They can record digital too, but generally nobody will do that if they have the choice. Years back, Zander and I had the attitude, 'digital great, analog old' until we started recording our music. Zander's band, who was touring the UK at the time, was given free studio time by Ali Campbell (of UB40) to record an album at Dep International. 2" analog, of course. The attitude of the engineer/producer at Dep (who was also tracking Cradle of Filth around the same time) was, the difference is so big on drums and guitars. So many producers/engineers around London had the same attitude also. And the bias against technology, ;), that is a joke. http://www.electricmountain.com/ - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 4:14pm | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | OK so I'm a liar; it only took 16 months from start to finish, not that it matters or even that I'm trying to slag ML7, whom I like.If I could I would probably go analog myself, but then if I could I would drive a Ferrari. As for ZG and its "classical" client I dare you to name who this mystery bassist is who can't find a decent studio between here and NYC. The greatest classical string bassist in HISTORY lives in Victoria (Gary Karr) and I guarantee you that he wouldn't be caught dead in ZG (especially if Rob was around), next is current bass whiz Edgar Meyer (Sony Classical artist who records exclusively in 24/96 digital). No classical producer in their right mind would even CONSIDER mixing on an SSL, (especially one that seems to be slightly broken all the time) and, to be frank, the monitoring in ZG is terrible, useless for classical. Any classical producer worth his salt would much prefer the Recital Hall at UVic or any of a number of the churches in town before going into ZG. ZG has an OK room but, and this is a big but, the plans were apparently scaled down in order to fit the design into the building, thus negating much of the value of the design (by the way feel free to correct me on any of these points if I'm wrong). Also, 15 minutes with Rob Toth convinced me to never have anything to do with the man, he had a hate on for every other engineer in town and was full of excuses as to why he had nothing to reference to other than stuff he had recorded there (a very ominous bad sign: engineers that are reluctant to A/B their work with what's out there in the real world are to be avoided like the plague). Now apparently Rob likes metal so he could well be the perfect fit for ML7, but classical??? And he does a lot of work for TV and movies. The number of records the guy has done since he opened that have hit the street can be counted on one hand. Maybe it's the $1000 a day base rate, but then again maybe not. When a friend of mine tracked their latest CD there (in two days!!) they told me that things improved immeasurably when Rob wasn't around. As for the 45 minutes calibration time I'm not familiar with the Otari 2" 24 ( a VERY nice analog machine, by the way) but I do know that EVERY time I have worked in an analog studio the machine has to first be calibrated completely before use (on the customer's dime) and it takes up to an hour. Maybe the Otari does this automatically, I don't know. I'm happy that ML7 have made a record they can be proud of and that they think they got a rippin' deal (nobody will actually admit to how much it actually cost in real dollars, which makes me suspicious), and I'm sorry I missed the CD release party (had a session going). But I get the feeling that ZG is a lot like Dan Cloutier; everybody seems to be ready with excuses for the guy, if only we give him a little more time, etc. etc. things will get better. But analog is going the way of the dodo fast. Get over it. - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 4:28pm | ||
| Anonymous | MethodAir sounds like a really rude guy. You rub everyone the wrong way with your holier than thou attitude. - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 4:47pm | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | Great, now that we have everybody here I have to ask a question in order to clear up what I have only heard as rumour. Since MethodAir seems to be a spokesperson for Electric Mountain I have to ask: Someone told me that EM is actually in the basement of a house in Metchosin (just like mine and just down the road aways) and has just over 6 foot ceilings. Is this true? And what was the name of Zander's band that toured England and recorded with Ali Campbell? Are these recordings available? And finally, where is Zander from and how old is he? I like the idea of a good analog machine just down the road from me as it saves me the hassle of getting one myself; instead, if I have a client that absolutely demands analog I can just book EM. What machine have you guys got? and board? - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 5:10pm | ||
| MethodAir | Zippgunn, I'm not a spokesperson for the studio, but I am Zander's brother. If you want to check out the studio, or have any questions, give Zander a call at 391-7664. And bring cd's if you wanna a/b test or whatever. Cheers. - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 5:29pm | ||
| Anonymous | I'm sick of MethodAir's self-centred rantings. You're not doing your brother a favour by half of what you say jackass. - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 5:42pm | ||
| MethodAir | Hey anon, those are my opinions and nothing to do with anyone else. If that upsets you...too bad. Recording Studio/Interactive Web Development http://www.electricmountain.com/ - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 7:02pm | ||
| ML7Mike | Zippgun, I meant you cannot use the time frame fairly in the same breath as the amount of time it took a guy to mix an album. ZG was done with us in December. The remaining 6 months were the bands business, not ZG's. It isnt their fault we weren't ready to release it sooner. the Cloutier analogy is great btw.. - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 7:22pm | ||
| ML7Mike | Oh, and Scott, Id discuss numbers in private, but such affairs are not the business of the masses. - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 7:28pm | ||
| Anonymous | Why is every post by MethodAir an advertisement????? All you care about is throwing that god awful website around. - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 7:33pm | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | Point taken, Mike, sorry if I seem like a nosy parker.The point I was trying to make was that even though it appears Rob gave you guys a sweetheart deal on the time it still seems like it added up to more than chump change. Anyway I'm hoping to hear it soon, I could use some guitar power. - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 7:40pm | ||
| Anonymous | MethodAir is a card carrying member of the "Analog Turd Club". He's also a perfect example of somebody who pretends to post, but is, in reality, only interested in advertising. And by the way Turd, if people want to post anon, so what? Get over yourself. - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 8:29pm | ||
| MethodAir | That's your fifth glass of sour grapes, pal. Let's back up to what you wrote before: 'analog turds can go fuck yourselves. there's nothing good about analog anything...You're all so fucking "local" i can't stand the stench of you.' In reality, you aren't anonymous. Btw, I'm a programmer (read: C++, Java, technology: good). And a drummer who happens to have recorded both ways. Too bad you have to resort to name calling when others have a different opinion. - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 9:24pm | ||
| Anonymous | You're actually right. I feel quite childish having re-read my posts. I'll take my medication now, and go to sleep. - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:39pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Scotty Gunn wrote: (nobody will actually admit to how much it actually cost in real dollars, which makes me suspicious) Actually I have alluded to rough numbers in the past on the board of how much The BMOH cost to make. There are two ways to see it. Our out of pocket costs and the costs of the entire project (hydro, time spent on everything, outboard gear that appeared in a barter fashion). Of course confidentiality on those matters is important for business reasons. I am not sure what there is to be suspicious of, but it must be serious! Enlighten me. - Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:59pm | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | Nothing suspicious, per se, just that there was the perception out there that you got the session for free. Which you did, kind of. But not really. Sort of. - Tue, 24 Jun 2003 4:27am | ||
| Gene Vachon User Info... | Go see the guy whos the one man band at the causeway....his name is Dave Harris.Hes the best there in Victoria with state of the art gear.Tell him Gene Vachon sent you,...he,ll give ya a better deal.I,m not fucking around,...this guy is awesome. - Tue, 24 Jun 2003 3:02pm | ||
| Zander | Scott, I would suggest you come by the studio and check the place out, I would be happy to show you the place and meet you in person. It sounds like you are close by....you can have a good listen to some of the music I have worked on, or even bring some your own stuff as well........... Zander - Tue, 24 Jun 2003 4:14pm | ||
| Zander | And then we can kiss and make out and I can rub my nose in your ass. - Tue, 24 Jun 2003 4:56pm | ||
| MethodAir | Can I too? http://www.iamallaboutshowingoffmybrothersstudio.com - Tue, 24 Jun 2003 4:57pm | ||
| MethodAir | Wow, we got imposters now...part of an elite club, ;). Media Engine: http://www.electricmountain.com/html/systemsOverview.html Videos: http://www.electricmountain.com/html/electricVideos.html - Tue, 24 Jun 2003 5:21pm | ||
| Representing 2 bands ready to record | Is Zander as annoying and unprofessional as his brother? Wouldn't want to do business with either of you. - Tue, 24 Jun 2003 6:19pm | ||
| MethodAir | Actually, Zander is pretty much booked solid right now, and I work for a web development company full time. Sorry we can't help you out, champ. - Tue, 24 Jun 2003 7:03pm | ||
| Another anon reader , musician | Dont worry Zander, this one nameless chump who is hacking you is just that.. one nameless chump. Fuck im, everyone who knows you realizes your ok.. - Tue, 24 Jun 2003 7:46pm | ||
| Anonymous | I generally find that, in music, when a person spends an inordinate amount of time telling you how good they are, it's best to pass. What you need to seek out is OTHER people telling you how good somebody is, that's where all the forward motion happens in this industry. To studios around town who are becoming a bit repetative in blowing their own horns, chill out and let your customers do the bragging for you. You may think you're on the right track, but if you read back over this (and past) threads, you'll see that it doesn't come across well. Just an opinion from a road dog, in reality, you can do whatever you want. - Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:13am | ||
| brad | session for free? ...hmm.. sounds like a good idea! hey scotty....when are you penciling me in for my complementary mix down? !! (snicker snicker!) - Wed, 25 Jun 2003 1:12am | ||
| Wayne User Info... | Electric Mountain is an excelent studio. they have very nice compressors and preamps. They also have a few very nice guitar pedals, one being a 'jimi hendrix experience' very cool. a couple of very nice marshalls. Quite a few very high quality mics. we used as much of Electric mountains gear as possible. we used his brothers drumkit, we made used of their 4x12 cabs plus allot of other stuff. it was nice not to truck in our intire set up and just show up with our axes and heads. Zander listen to what we wanted to acheive and worked with us. shit he even made me lunch one day. it was an enjoyable experince and will be going back someday. I know Phil, and all i can say is he is a good guy he means well. but he's british ya know, and you know how those brits can be. our old bass player was a brit, fuck they guy would ........ anyways. - Wed, 25 Jun 2003 1:31am | ||
| Unregistered User | anyone know what became of Bent Sound and/or how to get in touch with K. and K.? -former bastard. - Wed, 25 Jun 2003 1:47am | ||
| Anonymous | Bent Sound became the ML7 jamspot and K and K moved to Vancouver.. - Wed, 25 Jun 2003 2:58am | ||
| Unregistered User | thanks. know how i can get in touch with them? i need my equipment back. - Wed, 25 Jun 2003 3:01am | ||
| Elliot | So Zippgunn, You say I'm wrong, then go on to say that analog is even more expensive than I thought, completely contradicting yourself. SHOW ME a cheap, recreational analog studio in town that charges $15 an hour and was set up for $5000. I'll eat my words. - Wed, 25 Jun 2003 3:27am | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | Elliot, what I said was that you can build an analog studio for cheap; I didn't say that there were any commercially run cheap analog studios in town, and there's a reason. Even the cheapest digital gear blows away cheap analog in the signal to noise category and digital is so much more hassle free. Even if I did set up this 1/2" 8 track, the tape is still about $2 a minute as opposed to about 5 cents a minute for Hi-8 digital. What do you get for your extra $1.95 a minute? More noise (even with the built in dbx) more wow and flutter, dropouts, changes from the edge of the tape to the middle etc. And hey guess what, there's no market for it that I can see in this town. But my point was that used analog gear is CHEAP if you look for it in the right places (my repair tech turned me on to all these 2" analog machines for sale). - Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:41am | ||
| Ratman | Analog is capable of producing better quality recordings only with experience and they do cost more. Digital has the advantage of easier and endless editing. Musicians with unlimited $$ and experience usually use analog. Also depends on instrumentation. - Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:22pm | ||
| Ratman | To the average person's ear they may not be able to tell the difference between digital and analog recordings done by a professional studio. Some music is so raw and lacks the dynamics to notice the difference. Ever notice that a new cassette sounds better than the same song on CD. At least the first few plays are superior. After about 10 plays the CD may be better and will stay that way. - Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:30pm | ||
| Zander | At the end of the day, I don't give a shit about this whole analog digital debate. Do whatever it takes to get the results you want. Scott...you say there is no market for analog in this town? I get numerous bands who have recorded with you, who prefer to come here. They were not entirley happy with the results they had at your place. I would rather not get into a slagging match with other studio people, but it seems like you've gone out of your way to slag and be negative. I mentioned that if you were close by Scott, you should stop in the studio, and check the place out, and meet me in person. Cheers........... - Wed, 25 Jun 2003 1:16pm | ||
| Anonymous | Gee Ratman, thanks for NOTHING....don't post here if you don't know what you're talking about....which you don't - Wed, 25 Jun 2003 1:42pm | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | "Numerous" bands? Other than ERD I can think of no other. And whose slagging who? Anyone who reads this board regularly would think I was a cheap amateurish basement demo studio while Electric Mountain is a super high end pro studio. But it's also in a basement with a Mackie board etc. etc. The only real difference is the recording platforms. That and the fact that I LIKE being called a "basement" studio whereas I see no mention of basements in the EM website, or much pertinent info at all, for that matter. - Wed, 25 Jun 2003 5:05pm | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | And, I hasten to add, that's not a slag, it's meant to be constructive criticism. If I were a potential client I would want to have more specific information at hand; if the ceilings really are 7'3" like mine (ugh, I HATE it) it should be in there. Also more info on Zander; I have heard elsewhere of a band (whom?) and tour in the UK and Ali Campbell's name has been dropped a lot but none of this is in the website bio. All I know is that he's a "really great bass player" which is great if you're looking for a bass player but doesn't help much if you're looking for an engineer. In short, if you're going to bother putting up a website for your studio you should put specific information in it about, for instance, your outboard gear; just putting "neve" "focusrite" etc doesn't cut it, and to jaded pros whove seen millions of these websites it simply looks like you're trying to impress people with brand names. Also you must list all the special toys you have; I have one guitarist client from Van who records with me mainly because of my '55 Tremolux!! - Wed, 25 Jun 2003 5:10pm | ||
| Zander | At the end of the day, clients prefer to come out to the studio in person, meet me, listen to what I've done, and get a feel for the place, before booking dates. The website is there to give people an idea, with photos etc, before they come out. Do you have a website? We will be adding lots of further info as we go, everything from backline(which includes a sweet sounding 67' plexi 100watt), to more bio and gear info. Btw, you mentioned the only real differnce being the recording platforms, as we both have Mackies. I do not track through my Mackie pre's. I track entirely through my outboard mic pre's straight to tape. The board is for monitoring and mixing only. Like I mentioned before Scott, I'd be happy to show you the place and have a couple beers whatever...I'd be interested in checking your place out as well. Give me a call at the studio 391 7674. Cheers............ - Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:06pm | ||
| Anonymous | Do you soundguys chew alot of Bubble Yum by chance? - Thu, 26 Jun 2003 2:11am | ||
| Troutbreath | Any of you remember a record called, 'Sargeant Peppers Lonely Hearts Club' by a little four piece named 'The Beatles'? I believe it was recorded on an 8 track by an old poop at the BBC. One of the most influential recordings of songs by a guy named Robert Johnson was made using one microphone in a hotel room. The point is, no amount of gear will help if the music isn't there. - Thu, 26 Jun 2003 3:09am | ||
| Troutbreath | BTW, I'm really looking forward to hearing Meatlocker 's new CD. Sorry I couldn't make it to the release but I was otherwise engaged. (Sticky noticed the mannequin behind the Congas) - Thu, 26 Jun 2003 3:13am | ||
| old old old drummer | Henderson recored NomeansNo wayyy back in 81.Never heard of zander.Personally I go with knowledge and experence.Not web sites.ERD?ya I trust the locker bros.both are deaf .more rich kids less talent. - Thu, 26 Jun 2003 7:33am | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | I agree with Troutbreath. Some of the best and most influential records were basically hash jobs that ended up being great. F'rinstance Husker Du's "New Day Rising: all the vocals were sung into the mike NEXT to the singer, not the one in front of him. And one thing's for sure; all the analog gear, Neve strips, fancy websites and even George Martins in the world won't make your ceilings higher. Hey even Hendrix recorded in the basement at the BBC! - Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:39am | ||
| Anonymous | Moot point, And slagging ERD guys in this post is juvenile. Pete and Chris Locker both possess a fair amount of talent. Rich kids.. what a joke. - Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:54am | ||
| Anonymous | AND Ive YET to hear anything REALLY REALLY good come from SOS. Definately some ok demo stuff, but nothing phenomenal that made me go "WOW PRODUCTION!" , Dayglos, NMN, big deal, all their recordings sound like basic indy basement recordings. SOS is basically an overglorified Rats NEst, built on their reputation as being frontrunners of recording our local punk scene, which can keep them going seeing as how every year Victoria has 10 new punk bands made up of the same 30 punk rockers. Both of these studios would be swallowed up in a city with real studios. havent heard a thing from Zanders studio either, but Im sure it wont be much better ,, You guys are funny. Crappy studios having a showdown. - Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:55am | ||
| Zander User Info... | BTW...Chris is a good friend of mine, and if you know him, I would suggest talking to him to get his opinion on the studio before talking shit. Check out these short MP3 samples: http://www.electricmountain.com/tunes/samples/lythic321.mp3 http://www.electricmountain.com/tunes/samples/lythic323.mp3 http://www.electricmountain.com/tunes/samples/lythic324.mp3 http://www.electricmountain.com/tunes/samples/lythic320.mp3 http://www.electricmountain.com/tunes/samples/explosive320.mp3 http://www.electricmountain.com/tunes/tan1.mp3 - Thu, 26 Jun 2003 4:06pm | ||
| durl User Info... | i remember when music was fun, not work. what a bunch of bullshit this is. i can't think of a major label caliber band in this town that isn't already signed.furthermore any a&r rep worth his or her salt knows to look at the demo aspect of a band with relativity, as a part of the groups effort and not the sum. if a band is going to do their own independant release they have two options, use their talent or hire the talent. if you don't have the means to do either then who fucking cares if it doesn't sound like this band or that producer? not even you will know! you can however have fun and try to learn as much as you can in the process. now, i wasn't going to get into a battle over who's best but i can tell you that having worked with scott for years now, the approach i just described has been mine and has worked flawlessly for me. the only guys i have to argue with over what sounds better are the guys in my band. i don't care what scott thinks about the recordings that come out of his studio, we work together to get what i want to hear. my ears work fine enough for me. zander, or anyone else can go on all day about who they've recorded, and with what gear, if I don't like the way the record sounds then it's garbage. that's the part that people should remember when refering to artists. does the stuff i do with scott always rock? in hindsight no... but people loved hearing it, we got tonnes of shows with decent crowds thanks to our recordings and i've always learned something in the studio that's made me sound better. moreover, music is still fun, not wanker bullshit. - Thu, 26 Jun 2003 6:12pm | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | Having now gone over to EM for a coupla pops and chatting with Zander and hearing his work it occurs to me that this is a bit of an apples/oranges argument. We both work in VERY different ways and bring quite different agendas to our productions. I work VERY fast; most other engineer/producers take somewhat more time and there lies the rub. If I were to spend months on a project it would probably sound a lot like the other local projects that were done elsewhere. But I don't, mainly because I have such a short attention span that it would become a goddamn shitty job, something I have gone to great lengths to avoid over the years. Zander has his considerable strengths and so do I, but we are so different in our approach that the chances of us actually competing for a particular band are actually pretty slim. Which is fine by me; that just means we can work together in the local music scene without costing each other bookings etc. Another win/win situation. - Thu, 26 Jun 2003 7:36pm | ||
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