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established band needs a second guitarist
| Message Board > Seeking Musicians > established band needs a second guitarist |
| stephen User Info... |  we are looking for a second guitarist that can commit to a touring band, we jam 4 days a week, need your own gear, we will be touring heavily for the next 2 years, involves a finacial commitment aswell ie: jam space rent, we make no money personally on tour so you will have to be able to feed yourself every cent we make goes back into the band. immediatly we have 3 shows before august 22nd 2 Aug 2008 Victoria, British Columbia 6 Aug 2008 Calgary, Alberta 7 Aug 2008 Vancouver , British Columbia then on august 22nd we head to montreal and back if your up for the task give us a shout on here or call tim or stephen and 250 661 5890 stephen and conversation - Thu, 3 Jul 2008 1:22pm | ||
| spoonful User Info... | i dig your attitude - Thu, 3 Jul 2008 6:10pm | ||
| ::Saint:: User Info... | I'm confused.. if I am reading this right, you want someone who is willing to tour relentlessly for the next 2 years with no pay AND be able to pay own expenses. So I guess anyone who is not independently wealthy need not apply? Does anyone actually manage to hold down any kind of meaningful employment / income in a situation like this? - Fri, 4 Jul 2008 4:26pm | ||
| Peter Gardner User Info... | i think what he's asking for, the touring, paying your own way, ect. is pretty common place... - Fri, 4 Jul 2008 8:27pm | ||
| ::Saint:: User Info... | That may be true, but then again musicians aren't necessarily the most realistic humans on the planet, on the whole. I mean, isn't the whole point of touring to actually attempt making a living by playing music? Otherwise what's the point? One might say "Promoting the band", I guess, but seriously (and I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but) if you aren't playing to large enough crowds to be able to afford to pay for the band's touring expenses, including little details like food, then you're probably not promoting much. I guess if touring means taking a few weeks off from your day-job to hit a few major cities for fun that might be one thing.. I don't really see the point in devoting one's life to touring around the country in an '84 Econoline Van playing to empty bars for no money, though. Maybe it's just me. - Sat, 5 Jul 2008 2:37am | ||
| J User Info... | in all fairness they did say they make no PERSONAL money as the revenues are put straight towards 'the band'. So when they spoke of you "feeding yourself"; I would assume they meant you should save or have saved money before this endevour.(though having a bit of personal wealth probably wouldn't hurt). Its kinda like running a business; it doesn't happen for free ;) Sorry to side track the post. - Sat, 5 Jul 2008 10:57am Edited: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 10:58am | ||
| stephen User Info... | we started this band 2 years ago with the hope of making it our job. the end goal would be to make it to the point of comfortable living off this band. we all are dedicated to this band and the music we create more that life itself. we are searching for a like minded person to jump on board and do this with us full time. someone who loves music and is willing to dedicate his/her time to promoting/writing/touring/recording.... and everything else an established band does. i dont think what i am asking for is stupid. so as far as that dude replying saying that im asking too much, just please dont reply it's a waste of your/our time. we all work on the off times of not touring to save money to support ourselfs on tour and we all contribute equally to this band finacially. we need someone that is willing to go on this adventure with us. and as far as playing empty bars across canada, thats your own opinion. i like to think that we have great contacts, great shows and amazing friends to help us along the way. it's a very fun expierience thank you stephen and conversation - Sat, 5 Jul 2008 12:17pm | ||
| ::Saint:: User Info... | Don't get me wrong guys - I think you have a very tight band with a whole lot of talent behind you. I think it is cool that the current members of the band have (thus far) been able to maintain their basic needs while funnelling everything else they seemingly have into the dream. I genuinely hope you guys find success. I merely seek to present some feedback, as a fellow musician (who, under different circumstances, might be interested in playing with a band like Conversation) as to where I would be immediately turned off by your requirements on me as a potential new band member. The current band members are all invested in the band and have obviously made sacrifices / arranged your lives in way that has allowed you to get it where it is, but to somebody looking to potentially join you, there needs to be some kind of incentive involved, in my opinion. I mean, it's always possible you'll run into that one perfect person who has no problem quitting the day-job in order to tour around for no money and pick up random jobs in the "off-time", but chances are that person doesn't exist. I think it would be a shame for you guys to be searching indefinitely for that one person who might be perfect for the band but in need of a little more than what you are offering, at least initially. In any case, it's just my opinion - take it as one voice in a 'conversation', as it were :) - Sat, 5 Jul 2008 4:54pm | ||
| Drew User Info... | this guys retarded. - Sat, 5 Jul 2008 5:27pm | ||
| Tambo User Info... | What Drew said. If I wasn't committed to other bands, I'd seriously consider joining. If you're goal is to "make it" in music, this is probably how you're going to do it. This is an amazing opportunity, not the opposite. - Sat, 5 Jul 2008 7:12pm | ||
| ::Saint:: User Info... | I am *SO* not retarded. Seriously. But hey, it's possible I'm partially wrong on the potential reception, I'll admit that. I still think there is a bit of a disconnect here between the need for a quality musician with quality gear, who also does not require any money to survive on, but I was only giving my own perspective on the matter. No need to be throwing stones. - Sat, 5 Jul 2008 11:57pm | ||
| andymica User Info... | In defense of Saint, who I agree with. Who in there right mind is willing to quit their job to go on the road for no money eating hot dogs and peanut butter sandwiches for 2 years with absolutely no guarantee of success? - Sun, 6 Jul 2008 2:17am | ||
| MindlessMikeyJay User Info... | Wow Saint you have a lot of shit to say considering this ad doesn't concern you in any way since you are a bass player and you already have a band. So i would of just dropped it the first time or even not replied at all to this thread. A lot of bands live on nothing just to play live and travel. And this band will probably go far in their career for doing so. I'd Just start a new thread there Stephen. - Sun, 6 Jul 2008 8:54am | ||
| ::Saint:: User Info... | Its a message board. Sue me. - Sun, 6 Jul 2008 2:00pm | ||
| Drew B User Info... | Hey Ryan you should quit being a dick. Conversation is a legit band, way more so then your wack attempt at music. Because they tour for 2 years with no money eating PBJ 's is the reason why there gonna do something with there music and your not. _drew - Sun, 6 Jul 2008 2:33pm | ||
| LilyV User Info... | This thread has already gone so off course, but I just couldn't resist this time. Saint: as someone who is an outsider I think you should do yourself a favour and shut up already (I mean that as nicely as can be) In the end you are going to sewer yourself in the music industry that is Victoria. While opinions are opinions and everyone has them, I think running your mouth off on Live Vic is going to get you no where. You're going to piss off bands and venues and it will leave you no where to play and with no one to play a show with. What's the point, really? If you loose a member who the hell is going to want to join your band? Keep your opinions but I'd find a better way of wording them so you aren't a garage band all your life. - Sun, 6 Jul 2008 6:20pm | ||
| Aaron User Info... | Ok the fact of the matter is that Conversation has a passion for music. If anyone has ever been truly passionate about something, they are willing to give everything they have to support what they do. Touring for months at a time with little or no money is commonplace for a Band trying to make something of themselves. Where do you think Bands on the radio came from? Saint, you say you’ve been playing Bass for 13 years. You would think in 13 years, you would have maybe had the chance to at least play one out of town show. Maybe the reason You’re like 40 and still playing in a Garage Band is because you do not know what it takes to be a real musician. So with everything said on this thread, I wish Conversation nothing but the best, and I hope this old guy learns so shut the fuck up. - Sun, 6 Jul 2008 7:13pm | ||
| Endeløs User Info... | You equate being a "real" musician to playing out of town shows? Pull thine head from thine ass. ::Saint:: made many-a-valid point in his posts. And now I'll add my own; -Conversation is a ridiculous band name. -While is detest the screamo / emo genre, I gave your music a listen. First thing I noticed was the vocals are far too loud. Now, Conversation cheerleading crew- tell me I'm wrong. - Sun, 6 Jul 2008 9:04pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | cut the guy some slack, its not like he questioned the talent or commitment of the band. He just questioned their method of finding someone to fit in. All things considered; its a high demand being asked of someone, but that having been said; it also shows the level of commitment/direction the band wants to go in. And simply asking if broadening your horizons for searching out new band members shouldn't exactly "ruin your music career in the music industry known as victoria". you guys all jump to conclusions so quick. - Sun, 6 Jul 2008 9:07pm | ||
| Aaron User Info... | I would delegate the term 'real musician' to anyone who has the balls to take their music to people who would have otherwise not heard it. To sacrifice jobs, relationships, etc for the soul purpose of sharing their art with the world. Now Endelos, you say you were going to ad valid points to the argument. Stating that you think the band name is dumb and that you dont like the music kind of makes you look like a jackass. - Sun, 6 Jul 2008 9:29pm | ||
| LD User Info... | Should've just said: "Looking for a second guitarist who wants to take a shot at making a living as a musician in a good punk band. Extensive traveling involved. Weekend warriors and douchebags not actually interested in auditioning for the band need not apply." Anyone that really has the drive and love of music already knows where the majority of their time and money is going to go. I hope you guys find the right guitarist for your band. I actually would've tried out maybe a year ago but I'm sadly, now, a slave to the paycheque and I'm going back to school. Good luck Eric and the other guys in the band whom I've never met. I hope you can make it to that big dream that most of us still hold in our hearts somewhere...making music your career! - Sun, 6 Jul 2008 9:33pm | ||
| Zedius User Info... | Someone said that nobody in their right mind would tour relentlessly with no guarantees yada yada. Well, I know most of the music I love isn't written by people who are in their right minds. Also, not to defend what Saint's said, I'd like to say I like his latest "wack attempt at music". - Mon, 7 Jul 2008 12:03am | ||
| ::Saint:: User Info... | Holy shit balls - I gotta be honest here, I had no idea my innocuous little opinion was capable of stirring so much "controversy". It's kind of sad, actually, considering I wasn't even dissing anybody. Look, everybody, please get a prescription for some valium or something - you are all getting entirely too worked up about nothing. It was just an opinion, and nothing more. I wasn't calling anybody stupid, I wasn't questioning anyone's integrity, and I do not have a nuclear missile pointed at the Victoria music scene with my finger on the "fuck you" button. It was an opinion, so just take it easy. If you disagree, fine, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but for frak's sake quit being so bloody afraid of somebody else's opinion. It's a freaking rock band. We're talking about a style of music whose origins and indeed whose very existence is owed to people having controversial opinions. If rock music had to apologize every time it criticized something (i.e. the establishment, the government, etc) what would be the point? To Stephen and Conversation: My heartfelt apologies for the state of your thread. I really didn't intend for it to be so horribly derailed due to my 'dangerous' opinions, but as you can see I've had plenty of help. I can only hope that in response to all of this you have received at least a hundred emails from top-knotch guitar players looking to prove me wrong. And to clear up one other thing - I don't know where anybody got the idea that I'm 40. I'm 28. I wish some people would learn to actually read a post before they turn /flame on, as well. That is all. Now let us all return to our regularly scheduled message board thread. - Mon, 7 Jul 2008 11:17am | ||
| Jl User Info... | "real musician" or not... most of you have completely missed what Saint was asking. He wasn't a)"running his mouth on livevic" b)questioning the band's talent/commitment. Why does everyone jump all over someone when there's a fairly reasonable question being asked? Or if someone had a suggestion that might make finding a match easier? As far as people's perception of a "real musician"... to me, anyone that's willing and able to play an instrument without consequence is a musician. We're not here to put other bands down, cause a calamity, or "ruin our reps" in such a virle scene. I know its a bit preachy, but it seems that the support group for 'the conversation' jumps to conclusions before completely understanding what's being asked/said. That also having been said, I know :saint: and he's a stand up guy; even if you guys think he's some 40 year old garage band playing washout(minus about 10 or so years and nix the garage band playing washout)... sometimes you can be wrong, emo kids ;) good luck in the search and Im sorry once again for sidetracking this original post. As far as anyone should be concerned, do the band some respect by at least not bitching here about it ;) they're looking for someone to join their band. - Mon, 7 Jul 2008 11:18am | ||
| ::Saint:: User Info... | Okay, now I really want to know who JI is :) Thanks for the kind words, whoever you are! - Mon, 7 Jul 2008 11:27am Edited: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 11:27am | ||
| Tambo User Info... | All I'm sayin' is, I don't think it's an outrageous demand to have somebody commit to touring near full time if they're really passionate about "making it". How else are you going to do it? - Mon, 7 Jul 2008 5:19pm | ||
| Kyle User Info... | ...Advicebox? - Mon, 7 Jul 2008 5:34pm | ||
| Endeløs User Info... | "I don't think it's an outrageous demand to have somebody commit to touring near full time if they're really passionate about "making it". How else are you going to do it?" How about making music that doesn't suck emoballs? That'd be a start. - Mon, 7 Jul 2008 7:11pm | ||
| Tambo User Info... | lololol. What label r u signed to!? tmb! - Mon, 7 Jul 2008 7:36pm Edited: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 7:36pm | ||
| Cody User Info... | i would if i played guitar. But i play bass. My kinda music tho :p - Mon, 7 Jul 2008 8:17pm | ||
| Endeløs User Info... | lololol. What label r u signed to!? Sony, you stupid mongoloid. - Mon, 7 Jul 2008 8:56pm | ||
| Bryan User Info... | Unfortunately making music that sucks emoballs is exactly what "making it" entails for the most part. - Mon, 7 Jul 2008 11:09pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | " don't think it's an outrageous demand to have somebody commit to touring near full time if they're really passionate about "making it". How else are you going to do it?" when you have bills to pay and a life to live; its hard to committ. Its a BIG demand, but Im sure its not an impossible venture. Touring isn't the only way to have your music played to people that wouldn't normally hear it; theres many other means to "get your name out there". But touring is the most fun. Speaking from a mid-late twenties musician, it would be hard pulling time away from a job or even leaving a job to go on tour and make no personal income, so to speak of, and live happily ever-after. But that's just me and that's why I couldn't fit that bill. And I think I can speak for people like Saint in saying that while being a professional musician would be a dream come true; we sometimes have to take a step back and look at the big picture. Its one of the, if not the, hardest professions to make a decent living off of; and taking that into account, most people my age either have established themselves as either a solid studio musician(which i generally lean towards) or a solid local act(ie, cover bands at different locations; allbeit downtown popular locations). They make a decent living, for themselves, but I couldn't see, with the income they make, raising and committing yourself to a family. ps, Im no 40 year old washout and nor am i a beginner to playing. My point of view comes with some experience; whether you believe it or not. - Tue, 8 Jul 2008 3:37pm Edited: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 3:39pm | ||
| Aaron User Info... | Endeløs, quick question. Does sitting at your computer talking shit about a band make you feel good? It actually makes people think you are a piece of shit, which doesnt seem to cool to me. Do you have the balls to confront them in person about your opinions? If you dont, I would advise you to maybe just stick to your nexopia account - Tue, 8 Jul 2008 7:04pm | ||
| Endeløs User Info... | I don't "talk shit about a band". I express my thoughts and opinions about something that's being released to the public for consumption. Same as I would with a movie, a book, a T.V. show, etc. All artists should expect the public to critique their art, unless they choose to keep it entirely to themselves. Seems Conversation have opted not to take this path. I apologize if my opinions differ from yours. And I have no idea what a nexopia account is, so I can't very well stick to it. Sorry Duder!!! ;-) - Tue, 8 Jul 2008 8:07pm | ||
| monzza User Info... | "we are looking for a second guitarist that can commit to a touring band, we jam 4 days a week, need your own gear, we will be touring heavily for the next 2 years, involves a finacial commitment aswell ie: jam space rent, we make no money personally on tour so you will have to be able to feed yourself every cent we make goes back into the band." Well back to the post. Anyone that reads Conversations post knows what there getting into if they join there band. Good luck guys and keep up the good attitude. - Tue, 8 Jul 2008 10:38pm Edited: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 10:41pm | ||
| Casey3 User Info... | It just really goes to show what can happen to someone who has been in the local music scene for so long and then only see their future slipping out of reach. I'm sure an opinion is just an opinion, and I'm sure you've been down that road a million times, but let the band post a legit posting and see what happens without someone trying to shatter their hopes and dreams because theirs were never met (I've lived in Vic almost a year now and have never seen or heard of DeviceBox, so it goes to show how hard you're trying on your end). Conversation have worked hard at establishing their image for two years now and I am pretty sure there are several upon several guitarists out there who are more than willing to sacrifice some money to jump aboard. Isn't that the life of a musician fighting to make it anyways? - Wed, 9 Jul 2008 3:34pm Edited: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 4:00pm | ||
| Tambo User Info... | Dingdingding! Casey, I owe you a gold telephone. GOLD TELEPHONE! - Wed, 9 Jul 2008 6:49pm | ||
| Casey3 User Info... | Yes! I want my gold telephone! This totally ruins the thread. I do hope there is a guitarist reading this right now who wants to dedicate their time to Conversation and ignore this banter. - Wed, 9 Jul 2008 7:33pm | ||
| Tyler User Info... | I guess I have to stick my thoughts on this like everyone else. I don't exactly like this band or this style of music, but I absolutely believe in touring for the sake of touring. Not to make money, not even to play for large crowds, but to make a ton of new friends and find people who have a legitimate love for your band. This is the mindset that hardcore bands always follow. I'd imagine it to be much harder for something as commercial as Conversation, but some people seem to love this stuff. Anyway, my point is that I don't think they're asking too much, and they're being totally realistic, and I admire their approach like many of you guys do. Also, obligatory "Hey Endeløs actually this isn't screamo" post. - Fri, 11 Jul 2008 9:45am | ||
| ender User Info... | hi!! I couldn't resist!! first off, I have to say that I agree totally with saint!! having said that?? I have to address one comment in particular,,and I quote ""we all are dedicated to this band and the music we create more that life itself"" I'm sure you read or heard this in one of your rock idol's biography's or saw it on MM one time, and you probably feel very noble and heroic saying it(die for your music or some such drivel), but this(admit to yourself or not) is basically unrealistic and frankly???? A CROCK OF SHIT??? your a soldier in the epic battle to play music!! your bandmates are your comrades at war, all willing to make the ultimate sacrafice for ""THE MUSIC"" all I need to live is the music I play!!! gimme a fucking break!! you probably accuse anyone who's actually made any money playing music of selling out too,,,right??? - Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:02pm | ||
| Tambo User Info... | lol, annon bump - Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:13pm | ||
| K.C. User Info... | What a great thread that really shows the differences that can happen between ages 18-28. (I'm 28 for the record) Good things said on both sides: one thing I'll mention to the Conversation: when you are finally sitting in that office with an A&R guy from 604 or whatever, you have to change your attitude or you'll get screwed. Someone asked earlier where music on the radio comes from. The answer: A&R guys who think they may have the next song. Not band. Song. The rest is disposable. Over the years I've learned that "passion" for the music is great, but you can have passion and still value your time - and the people who object to living hand to mouth on the road constantly are the ones like Saint and I who have likely been through it before and come out slightly disillusioned by it. We've also seen promoters, bar managers and venues make a ton of money off of musicians' broke asses who never see a cent. oh no, I'm waxing. k. ps. I really wish people could talk and disagree on this site without rudely insulting each other anonymously. that is all. - Thu, 7 Aug 2008 8:29am Edited: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 8:32am | ||
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