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Bid to classify dogs as livestock
Message Board > Controversy and Quarantine > Bid to classify dogs as livestock
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trevor corey
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Just nuke the whole peninsula. Yeah, I said it.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23476590-13762,00.html - Fri, 4 Apr 2008 12:16am Edited: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 12:32am
What Did You Say? I'm Sorry, My Eyes Are On Fire...
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They do it with Cows, Chickens and Pigs, what's the difference? They are all intelligent sentient beings that feel terror, pain and sorrow but for some reason people only care about the dogs. - Fri, 4 Apr 2008 3:22pm
ROSS B AY
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Because they're the only ones that give a shit about human beings. - Fri, 4 Apr 2008 5:09pm
gene
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I hear dog tastes really good, so why not classify the little fuckers as livestock so we can eat the stinky little fuckers? - Fri, 4 Apr 2008 5:20pm
trevor corey
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Thank you Ross. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Look, I don't eat "Cows, Chickens and Pigs", but most other people do. I wish they wouldn't, but they do, always have, always will. Good luck stopping them.
Eating dogs is an outrage.

Who did you hear that from Gene? Really. I'd like to know. - Fri, 4 Apr 2008 5:21pm Edited: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 5:22pm
Aidan Logins
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Hundreds of millions of people around the world eat dogs, cats, and other animals that we consider to be off-limits. In certain parts of the world you would be executed for eating a cow. Not that I agree or disagree with either... I'm not sure where I stand on the issue of eating animals.

But I think that saying a dog is any better than a cow is akin to bigotry. What is the criteria for what animals we can eat and what ones we can't? (other than health reasons I mean) - Fri, 4 Apr 2008 7:10pm
Doc
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Whether you choose to eat meat or not (personally I do, but I respect the don't's point of view) you have to remember that your body is designed to eat, digest, and derive nutrients from animal protien. Face it, vegetarianiam/veganism is unnatural. On another note, I have heard that dog meat is oily (read it somewhere Trev) and I am not the least bit interested in trying it, yet I think that those who are should be able to.

~Fellin' like a super hero tonight officer?
Doc

P.S. I recomend NOT using the above quote when you encounter a police officer and you are heading home from the bar drunk! - Fri, 4 Apr 2008 9:51pm
Sati
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I don't mean to dis other animals, but there's intelligence and sensitivity in a dog's eyes. Thats why I like looking at pictures of wolves. So much character.
I'm sure if I spent more time with pigs or cows or even chicken I'd detect a lot more in them, but I haven't & don't. - Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:03pm
DOOMHAMMER
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=14L9otvV0-U&feature=related

as cool as it is to hate peta and talk shit, this is the sort of shit they try to stop.

And as far as a vegetarian / vegan diet being unnatural, humans have the unique digestion system in which you could not actually prove whether or not our systems are designed for eating meat or veggies, as we have the characteristics of being solely one or the other, and obviously both. Do a google search.

I dont eat meat, but what bothered me originally was how everything is pumped with hormones, genetically modified, blah blah.

At this point I just dont see the reason for eating meat anymore. The amount of grain fed to livestock in the united states alone is enough to end world hunger, as the grain to meat ratio is 54:1 in cattle alone.

Its hard to have an opinion and not be self righteous, but its pretty much like the whole smoking argument, people can generally admit to what is right or wrong, they just dont give a shit. - Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:05pm
DOOMHAMMER
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and for the record, pigs are way smarter than dogs or wolves. - Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:09pm
Sati
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I don't really have a leg to stand on here, but I believe you about pigs. For some reason last year... year of the pig, and shots of picton's anxious pigs pacing and looking up at the camera, and other things, I didn't eat pork all year.
And I try only to buy free range organic chicken. I don't eat much meat, but I try to be good about it when I do.
Doesn't mean I don't slip up, but trying DOES count.

p.s. not clicking on any of these linkks - Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:31pm Edited: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:32pm
trevor corey
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My link is just an article.
I wouldn't link to any of the shock videos out there. - Fri, 4 Apr 2008 11:59pm
begbie
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http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html

Humans do need meat to survive. Without supplements, vegans would be dying by the boatload. Perhaps North American vegans should adopt Iranian vegan's source of B-12. - Sat, 5 Apr 2008 3:16am
Sati
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uh...... NO

" Human faeces can contain significant B12. A study has shown that a group of Iranian vegans obtained adequate B12 from unwashed vegetables which had been fertilised with human manure. Faecal contamination of vegetables and other plant foods can make a significant contribution to dietary needs, particularly in areas where hygiene standards may be low. This may be responsible for the lack of aneamia due to B12 deficiency in vegan communities in developing countries." - Sat, 5 Apr 2008 9:20am
ROSS B AY
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Go ahead and eat your own human shit then you pig. - Sat, 5 Apr 2008 10:52am
JDL
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as morbid as it sounds; at least they're pushing for more hygenic ways to keep and slaughter the animal in question. Right now(despite OUR social acceptance), these animals basically eat sleep and shit in their own shit. At least give them the decency WE give our livestock. Which is a decent(yet short) life in a hygenic environment. Basically what im trying to say is that, while it may be considered disgusting "abhorrant" food, the animal at least deserves to be treated well for its short life; be it dog, cow, horse, buffalo etc... the list goes on.
That being said, I DO NOT side with dog meat lovers... and think the practice is a completely disgusting(but at least give the dogs the best life they can have before you eat them). - Sat, 5 Apr 2008 4:13pm
Dr.DoomXXX
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"But I think that saying a dog is any better than a cow is akin to bigotry" Have we really gotten that PC? Fuuuuuuuuuuck. - Sun, 6 Apr 2008 11:20am
ROSS B AY
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Yeah. That's powerful weak. - Sun, 6 Apr 2008 1:22pm
What Did You Say? I'm Sorry, My Eyes Are On Fire...
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The smoking thing is ridiculous too. here is a picture of dogs being forced to inhale cigarette smoke. - Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:35am
Aidan Logins
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"Have we really gotten that PC? Fuuuuuuuuuuck."


I only meant that the two follow the same logic. Which is entirely true. And history has proven that it's faulty logic. I am not PC in any way, at all. I don't philosophically believe in politics OR correctness- and certainly not a combination of the two. - Mon, 7 Apr 2008 3:38pm
Dr.DoomXXX
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The thing with bigotry is that when some people try to say that one race is one way while another race is different or better it's not true. But with animals you have to except the fact that they're not different races but different species with way less in common by comparison. When I see a dog walking up to me with it's tail wagging the look on the face comes across like they want to be my friend. Cows on the other hand are natures prey and an abundant food source. When a person eats beef they're prolly not thinking to themselves "damn, dogs are just plain better then cows." But choosing to eat beef or pork or poultry and thinking that eating dog is wrong is not bigoted. Even if some K9 munchers in Korea disagree. - Tue, 8 Apr 2008 2:36pm Edited: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 2:37pm
What Did You Say? I'm Sorry, My Eyes Are On Fire...
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There is Intelligence and sensitivity in other animals eyes too. - Wed, 9 Apr 2008 9:29am Edited: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 9:30am
trevor corey
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Yes, I agree 110%, absolutely, positively. No arguments from me. All animals experience emotion, including pain and fear, and I certainly don't eat them.
BUT, this thread is not about vegetarianism, it's about people EATING the sacred dog.
Cows don't rescue us from avalanches. Pigs don't guide our blind. Chickens don't work with our police departments. Turkeys don't protect our homes and children or wake us up if our house is on fire. I'm just sayin. - Wed, 9 Apr 2008 1:14pm
Swingin' Joe
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Their are far more worse things going on in the world then say....A dog getting eaten. IM just saying. - Wed, 9 Apr 2008 4:38pm Edited: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 4:40pm
trevor corey
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Yeah, no, not as far as I'm concerned. - Wed, 9 Apr 2008 4:47pm
Sati
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I don't really think that whether an animal is "useful" or not should matter. And who's to say that other animals couldn't do some of those things anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He7Ge7Sogrk

and just cuz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuFyqzerHS8 - Wed, 9 Apr 2008 7:02pm
ROSS B AY
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"Their are far more worse things going on in the world then say....A dog getting eaten."


Exactly. Nail on the head, right there. - Wed, 9 Apr 2008 7:26pm
Nicholas Antoni Marek Gibas
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90% of this thread is so goddamn stupid I'm going to not post about any of this to dodge tire wrestling retardedness. - Thu, 10 Apr 2008 1:51am Edited: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 1:53am
What Did You Say? I'm Sorry, My Eyes Are On Fire...
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Thanks Sati, I was thinking the same thing. Why should an animal be considered more important because of what they can do for us? I know this thread is not about vegetarianism, I'm not trying to make it about that. I'm just saying all animals are equal in my eyes, and to me eating dogs is no more horrific than people eating any other animal. So, how 'bout those Canucks? - Thu, 10 Apr 2008 8:57am
_Griphin_
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*wOoF* *wOoF* - Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:21pm
trevor corey
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So are you trying to say it's ok to eat dogs then?
I'll shove "those Canucks" up yer ass you snot nosed little fuck. - Thu, 10 Apr 2008 6:21pm
Mr. Hell
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Hahaha.
Good rage! I like it! - Thu, 10 Apr 2008 6:54pm
Aidan Logins
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It's ok to eat dogs. - Thu, 10 Apr 2008 11:27pm
ROSS B AY
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Yeah it all depends on how you marinate the meat I suppose. Like anything else. - Fri, 11 Apr 2008 4:29am
What Did You Say? I'm Sorry, My Eyes Are On Fire...
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Yeah, the vegan is saying it's ok to eat dogs. Sheesh! - Fri, 11 Apr 2008 7:40am
What Did You Say? I'm Sorry, My Eyes Are On Fire...
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I dare you to call Ross Bay what you called me. - Fri, 11 Apr 2008 7:42am
Swingin' Joe
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If it was me and White Fang stranded in the Antartic, with no food, and just snow to eat. Game on my friend, game on. - Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:05am
Dr.DoomXXX
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If you're stranded in the Antarctic and all you eat is snow, you'd die of hypothermia. - Fri, 11 Apr 2008 1:21pm
trevor corey
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If you don't like being called names, don't take cheap shots. Canucks fans are sensitive right now. - Fri, 11 Apr 2008 1:43pm
Swingin' Joe
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I was referring to me eating White Fang. Frig. - Fri, 11 Apr 2008 2:27pm
trevor corey
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Fags. - Fri, 11 Apr 2008 2:47pm
What Did You Say? I'm Sorry, My Eyes Are On Fire...
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Cheap shot? It was supposed to be a joke. You know, jokes, things people throw in when things are heavy and you want to lighten the mood a little. I don't even know anything about the Canucks or any hockey teams. I don't have cable, and if I did I wouldn't watch hockey. I don't want people to eat dogs! But people eat other animals in different places and it's like, normal, and the other points I already made. I just....need to challenge things because that's what I do. Continue raging. - Fri, 11 Apr 2008 7:33pm
Sati
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whats this daring to call ros sbay a snot nosed little fuck? you're saying its not done?? there, done.

I'd just like to add that killing/eating is one thing, but JDL had a point - its how animals (and people!) are treated during their lives that matters. And how the killing is carried through.

People who mistreat animals are TRULY the weakest of the weak. Its plain, simple, obvious. There is no excuse. I'll defend a lot of people who act out their pain, but not those wastes of flesh. - Sat, 12 Apr 2008 8:20am
Dr.DoomXXX
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Swingin' Joe, you should know I usually have 10-12 beers before I start fuckin' around on computer. Considering the ratio of fuck ups to non-fuck ups I think I do O.K. - Sat, 12 Apr 2008 9:50am
ROSS B AY
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I think "Snot Nosed Little Fuck" would be a great band name. - Sat, 12 Apr 2008 9:55am
DOOMHAMMER
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZCYaw5tGYAs - Sat, 12 Apr 2008 12:37pm
Swingin' Joe
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What type of beers we talkin' here? - Sat, 12 Apr 2008 1:24pm
ROSS B AY
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Beer - Core:




http://www.myspace.com/wingsbeersports - Sat, 12 Apr 2008 2:14pm Edited: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 2:15pm
trevor corey
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History lesson- In 38 years of existence, the Vancouver Canucks franchise has only 8 banners hanging from the ceiling of GM Place, none of which are Stanley Cup banners. Six division, two conference. In the last three years the Canucks have missed the play-offs twice, with the year before being a lock out. Canucks fans are STARVING for play-off hockey. This year was a disaster with injuries, yet we all still believed they would make the post season. They didn't. Now we have to listen to unending "Canucksuck" jokes and cheapshots from Flamesfans.

Eating "Cows, Chickens and Pigs" is acceptable, and legal in every country of the world. Eating dog is not legal in any country, Korea would be the first. I don't believe for one minute that "food" dogs would have any better quality of life if they became classified as livestock. Dream on JDL.

No matter what the culture or nationality, eating dogs is wrong, and nothing anyone says will change that.
Now apologize for arguing with my wisdom and enlightened genius. - Sat, 12 Apr 2008 4:06pm Edited: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 4:13pm
ROSS B AY
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(..........I'm sorry................) - Sat, 12 Apr 2008 4:15pm
trevor corey
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.........also, classifying dogs as livestock will not change the manner in which they are killed. They are skinned alive on purpose because the heightened fear and pain causes an increase in adrenaline, which affects the flavour of the meat. - Sat, 12 Apr 2008 4:18pm Edited: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 4:21pm
Danielle
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Perhaps we could raise “free range” dogs in the same manner that the ethical carnivore would only eat “free range” poultry or natural grain fed livestock. There is a food chain after all. However, as it began the lower prey lived their normal course of happy existence right up until the moment of the hunt and kill, therefore eliminating a retched life of torture as with the way “veal” is created. Pigs are just as smart, loving, devoted and affectionate as a dog can be. If you grew up in a world where people had pigs and pets and dogs were chained in a pen for future slaughter and human consumption, then you would be just as disgusted with the idea of chowin’ down on “Wilber” as we would be at the idea of eating a dog. There are a few, mostly Asian, countries that eat dog. Other countries let children die of starvation but refuse to eat any meat at all. In Greece people love their dogs but cats have no more regard than rodents. There is a huge population of feral cats in Greece and their lives are a miserable existence of trying to survive. Personally I would rather be the “dog on a platter” in Vietnam than a cat in Athens, or a child in Sierra Leone, or a young girl in Ethiopia, or......you get the picture. - Sat, 12 Apr 2008 8:18pm
trevor corey
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You can intellectualize until the cows come home. I won't back down. Dogs are the only animal that wag their tails when they sees you.

.........the wolfdawg in your userinfo looks alot like my most recent addition. - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:40am
Doc
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Trevor Corey is incorrect. There are large portions of India where it is neither legal nor acceptable to eat beef due to the Brahman view that cows are a sacred animal.

~I have nothing witty to put here today
Doc - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:54am
trevor corey
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The key word in Doc's post is "portions". I am not incorrect. - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 1:23am
Dr.DoomXXX
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Lucky. - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:19am
What Did You Say? I'm Sorry, My Eyes Are On Fire...
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Other animals would be all happy to see you when you got home too, maybe not wag their tails, but if they were your pets they'd surely be happy to see you. They don't get a chance though, do they?

What about the dogs that get their tails docked, like little Jack Russells? Maybe just eat them, and give the rest to Trevor Corey and he can feel all good inside when they wag their tails at him. I'm Joking of course, but sarcasm doesn't always seem to come through so I'm flat out saying it.

Why do I keep getting sucked back into this?! Aarrggh! - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 11:15am
Sati
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yeah tc i'm usually with you on this kind of stuff but you're being ridiculous. My old cats had always looked up at me from their sleep when I got home and gave me the slow, blinky, pleased acknowledgement that they were happy I was home. Maybe purred, maybe mewed, maybe got up and followed me around stretching and waiting for me to pet them, or they ran around after me.

My rooommates' rats used to run up to the side of the cage all excited when I went in to check on them for her. When our cat came to get me the night one of the rats was dying, they were both conveying a lot about what was going on through their eyes. Nev's mom's horses are unbelievably kind, inviting & expressive when you visit them and I don't know the first thing about horses.

Maybe you just don't get other animals. Maybe its something you're missing - i.e. your shortcoming - and not everyone else's. Not the animals' either. - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:13pm Edited: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:14pm
trevor corey
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This isn't about "other" animals, this is about dogs. I "get" other animals, better than most. The only animal I eat is the occasional salmon, and crab.

What I don't "get", is why everyone feels the need to argue with me on this topic. Although, I am VERY glad to see so much concern from everyone about all the other animals. It seems to me that you are all saying it's not fair for me to only be concerned about the eating of dogs. I am concerned about the killing and eating of all God's creatures, but I don't bother yelling about it because 90% of the world ate meat today.

However, I will not stand by silently while the dog, man's best friend, God spelled backwards, gets added to the list of "acceptable" eating.

One of these days I will cash out, and move to India, the vegetarian part that Doc was talking about. - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 2:52pm
trevor corey
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUvEouWA29o&feature=related - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 3:36pm Edited: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 3:42pm
mikey
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Personally, TC it was when you said dogs as food was the worst thing in the world that I went WTF?

I am sure others thought the same. - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 6:37pm
sumyungai
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There's a reason for not eating carnivores, I don't recall exactly what it is, but I think it has something to do with disease. It just doesn't seem right to eat a predator.

I feel sorry for anyone so lonely or insecure that they rely on their pet's welcome in order to feel validated. - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 7:01pm
Aidan Logins
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"I think it has something to do with disease."

That's the whole reason they want to classify them as livestock. Because regardless of whether we think it's cool or not people will still eat them. And the way it's done now it's still legal- but they're not under any regulations. And since they are unregulated there are a lot of people getting sick from animals raised in unsanitary conditions. If they were classified as livestock there would be regulations around raising them and there would be less sick people. It's got nothing to do with whether or not it's Right or Wrong to eat dogs- they will be eaten if they're livestock or not. One way people eat them and sometimes get sick and sometimes die. One way people eat them and don't get sick. - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 8:30pm
sumyungai
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Given the preponderance of alternatives, if someone wants to eat questionable meat (regardless of its source), good riddance, I say. It's absolute stupidity to suggest that it's all right to eat dogs (or any other non- food animal), and that it should be regulated just because people are going to. That's like legalizing crack and meth because people are going to take drugs.

By that same argument, I find the consumption of Fugu to be tantamount to insanity. Not to mention that tapioca pudding is the boiled root of a fatally poisonous plant. People eat the stupidest things, and if they die as a result of what they put in their mouths, tough shit. Personally, I never eat anything without a brand name. That way, I know who to sue if I ever get sick! (just kidding :>)

As a corollary to this, one lesson I learnt on the road is to stick to franchises. You can't really go wrong with a McDonald's or a Wendy's when you're travelling the third world. You may call me close- minded, but at least I've never had samonella. - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 8:44pm Edited: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 8:49pm
What Did You Say? I'm Sorry, My Eyes Are On Fire...
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I will not stand by silently while the dog, man's best friend, God spelled backwards, gets added to the list of "acceptable" eating.

-Man's best friend and God spelled backwards? You sound like a redneck American or something. As an Athiest God spelled backwards means nothing to me, and neither does man's best friend. I don't have the kind of ego that just because I'm a human I'm the goddam centre of the universe.

Speaking of not standing by silently, what have you done about it besides start this thread and maybe sign an online petition. Are you writing letters, making calls, doing research? Let us know what kind of progress you're making. - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 8:49pm
trevor corey
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So, it's alright for you to be an atheist, but I'm a "redneck American' if I believe in GOD?

Go wipe yer nose. - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 9:04pm
Sati
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i think nik had the right idea

I just didn't like the inaccurate blanket statements that were made about dogs being the only ones who...
and now with the sacred god thing, i think i'll just tiptoe away from this one now - Sun, 13 Apr 2008 11:40pm
Dr.DoomXXX
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Eating dogs is just stupid. I can't believe how many people are getting so offended over the disapproval of K9 consumption. - Mon, 14 Apr 2008 8:57am
Tyler
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I can't see any reason why it's okay to eat cows and not okay to eat dogs. there's enough animal shelters anyway, maybe it'd be an easy fix? sure, they're cute and help out society, but they can keep doing that and still get eaten. it's less okay to eat endangered species because there's probably a lot we can learn through future scientific breakthroughs with living specimens. but dogs are far, far, far from endangered. there's probably more of them than there would be in a world without humans. - Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:20pm
cativo
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Hopefully some of these new diseases will wipe out 90% or so of the human population and the rest that survive can stop looking for any excuse to pretend eating rats,baby fetus's there neihbours dogs and cats and anything that crawls or moves is good to eat.
Especially the more verminous of our species,fuck we are gross.
Have you looked at a naked human being lately?
We are disgusting creatures, that person that created the idea that human bodies are the most beutifull hasn't been to my neighbourhood.
Lots of potential dog scarfing, cat gobbling, baby fetus sucking creeps squirming around. - Mon, 14 Apr 2008 3:26pm Edited: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 3:29pm
Aidan Logins
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"That's like legalizing crack and meth because people are going to take drugs."

Yes, completely... if by legalizing crack and meth it would make it so that they were totally safe to consume. - Mon, 14 Apr 2008 6:39pm
sumyungai
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Why? Why should I care if crack is safe? Fuck that hippy shit. Let the meth- heads die in the streets. Christ almighty, I swear you want the government legislating ass- wiping because people might abrade their buttholes if they rub too hard.

Live and let die, man. - Mon, 14 Apr 2008 6:53pm Edited: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 6:54pm
Aidan Logins
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I don't think you got the sarcasm... - Mon, 14 Apr 2008 8:08pm
trevor corey
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In response to the question, "what have you done about it besides start this thread and maybe sign an online petition".

Well, if I can't even convince the vegans and vegetarians of Livevic that the eating of dogs is wrong, what makes you think a Korean lawmaker is going to agree with me?
You can shove your "petitions" up your poop chute for all the good it will do. I am personally boycotting Korea, China, and the Philippines, and if I ever get the chance I'll round house kick the President of Korea in the teeth.
I don't for one second think that I can do anything to stop this issue, but that doesn't mean I can't bitch about it. - Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:29am
Trevcore
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http://www.snopes.com:80/glurge/abbey.asp - Tue, 15 Apr 2008 2:07am
What Did You Say? I'm Sorry, My Eyes Are On Fire...
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You don't need to convince me that eating dogs is wrong, I already know. If you seriously managed to not use anything made in those countries, I'd be impressed. - Tue, 15 Apr 2008 6:15pm Edited: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 6:18pm
Sati
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yeah what bugs me is when people get so f'n self righteous about their issue that they twist around what everyone else is saying just so they can have an adversary (sp?) to be indignant about.

sorry trevor corey, but you don't have too much real opposition here. Except for Ross Bay who you should probably fight. - Tue, 15 Apr 2008 6:24pm
sumyungai
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I'd pay a dollar to see that. - Tue, 15 Apr 2008 6:29pm
trevor corey
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I thought you were going to "tiptoe away from this one".

Must be the way that I fill out my skin tight blue jeans. - Tue, 15 Apr 2008 8:55pm Edited: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 8:56pm
goff
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i'd pay a dollar to suck off Ross B ay.

it's a dollar more than i normally spend but i think i'm addicted - Tue, 15 Apr 2008 9:32pm
Trevcore
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Sati thinks I'm "righteous". ~blush~ - Wed, 16 Apr 2008 1:50am
Sati
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TC is just trying to divert attention from the fact that we now
know he carries around prosthetic puppy testicals on his keychain

mmmm, puppy testicals.... - Thu, 17 Apr 2008 6:22am
Sati
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Anyone else grossed out by cativo's post?
where in the HELL do you LIVE? - Thu, 17 Apr 2008 6:24am
trevor corey
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Probably next door to you.


B U R N ! - Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:35pm
Dr.DoomXXX
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I'm guessing Turkey.



BURN! - Fri, 18 Apr 2008 3:01am
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