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Satanic house near Cowichan Lake?
| Message Board > Controversy and Quarantine > Satanic house near Cowichan Lake? |
| Morgoth User Info... | I keep hearing everywhere about this house where a child was hanged. Anyways.. (so they say) they hold black masses there. All of the windows are apparently spraypainted black and it is upon a mountain near Cowichan Lake or Duncan. Does anyone know about this? - Tue, 15 Jan 2008 1:03am | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Sounds like an urban legend tbh. Can't say I've even heard of it, but there's pretty much a 'house' like this in every city/town in Canada. You could post something at the following link though. http://www.vanisleparanormal.ca/ - Tue, 15 Jan 2008 2:17am | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Nikki Sixx owns a house on Judah St. Didn't ya know? - Tue, 15 Jan 2008 2:35am | ||
| McLovin User Info... | "black masses", lol - Tue, 15 Jan 2008 2:41am | ||
| Swingin' Joe User Info... | Who cares? Unless you plan on going............. - Tue, 15 Jan 2008 6:13am | ||
| snuh User Info... | Doesn't 'Zepplin' own, or used to own a house down along Dallas road? I don't know why that sticks in me head. Did I read it? Did I make it up? Someone help me..... - Tue, 15 Jan 2008 8:10pm | ||
| Neon Lovecraft User Info... | I hope there's a Satanic house. My cousins live on Judah St... Oh yeah that Nikki Sixx "heroin diaries" cd sucked just in case anyone wants a warning, but I don't think anyone here listens to that stuff... hopefully - Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:37pm | ||
| KimberleyKaos User Info... | I used to live in Shawnigan. Never heard this story, and yeah - black masses LOL as well. There is however, a spooky house with some good legends, right on the backroad from Shawnigan, heading to Duncan, thru Cobble Hill. It can be seen from the main road, altho adorned with very high handmade impailing stakes for a fence line. In fall, the lack of leaves reveals interesting sight. An (approx) 10 foot tall "garden gnome" which is a figure with horns, hand carved as well from what appears to be wood, complete with horns and looking mighty evil. Friend of mine years ago was contracted there to work as a painter, but was asked if custom flames and a mural consisting of hell, and associated background, could be done in the end hallway. Another time, someone stole the statue from the yard, it was gone about a week, before it was returned. I know the people that stole this (well, knew enough to know the story - that's all I'll say) and they were contacted (altho most friends couldnt contact these people if they tried) BY THE OWNER of this house and statue, and swiftly told to replace it, or else...yadda yadda... T'was spooky fo sho! You can pull over on the side of the road and check this shit out, and the zillions of stories about this place are un-nerving... - Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:34am | ||
| KimberleyKaos User Info... | (Just past Thayne road a couple turns, leaving Shawnigan heading to Duncan, and it would be on your left. Just look for stake fencing, and if you were now standing at gate, facing property, statue is in front yard to the left, where a garden circles the bottom of a tree...) If your on a roadtrip, its fun to scope out... Just don't let the dude catch ya... - Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:42am | ||
| Meantime Mike User Info... | hahah Kim we used to drive past that guys house every day on the way to school in the old yellow bus. We'd all be like hail satan'ing the place.. Later in life I discovered the guy who lives there likes to carve stuff and put it in his yard.. I think my buddy delivered his newspaper. Anyone know if Drac's Castle still exists up near Courtney? - Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:44am Edited: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:19pm | ||
| McLovin User Info... | HaHa. I was wondering if Mike was going to mention that. Glory days of 7:30am bus rides(no seatbelts), to George Boner. With a ghetto blaster in the back cranking out (to the dismay of the preppies on the bus) http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=_dy-Q4tSkQY&feature=related - Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:42pm Edited: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 4:14pm | ||
| J. Peatman User Info... | I heard something about Satanic Rites going on in some sort of tunnel system under the city...anyone ever hear about that? - Fri, 18 Jan 2008 8:31pm | ||
| Mutilashawn User Info... | no never!! what ever do you mean?? hehe - Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:49pm | ||
| KRIEG User Info... | The tunnels were taken over by squatting homeless trash, and thus, we lost our place of worship. - Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:42am | ||
| Chopper User Info... | 'I heard something about Satanic Rites going on in some sort of tunnel system under the city...anyone ever hear about that?' And Ross Bay Cemetery, although if they were using the book by Anton LaVey they were pretty much doing nada. He's been proven to be nothing but a money grubbing charlatan. Not like his daughter's any different either, even though she's one of the people that spoke out against him, and now runs her own satanic church *laugh*. Glad the fucker's dead. - Sat, 19 Jan 2008 2:50am | ||
| KnifeGhost User Info... | Good evening. Everything you have ever heard about Satanic activity in Victoria is bullshit. It's a holdover from the Satanic Panic bullshit in the '80s, and is, as such, bullshit. I hate to burst your bubbles, but bullshit is bullshit. Thank you, Ryan PS: I'm serious. It's bullshit. - Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:14pm | ||
| Endeløs User Info... |  How can one assface named ryan (gay name) proclaim to know the religious going-ons of an entire city? Fear based denial doesn't discredit anything. PS- The holocaust is a jew spread myth, dreamt up to garner sympathy and big cash money. - Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:36pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Considering there's no such thing as a black bible, as per my last post... And I'm sure someone will come out and make the asinine statement that the necronomicon, also a work of fiction, is satanic. Satanists are no different than christians, as both are followed by the weak minded who need to believe in something to make their pitiful existence seem less futile. And for your jew comment you should be crucified...upside down... - Sun, 20 Jan 2008 1:38am Edited: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 1:40am | ||
| McLovin User Info... | Sad to see that someone has to state the obvious, yet relieving to see someone do it. - Sun, 20 Jan 2008 1:44am | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Good read for all you wannabe Satanists who use ASL's fictional books to 'worship' the dark lord :rolleyes: Trevor/McLovin, you might want to skip this, as the prick abused animals he had for pets. http://www.churchofsatan.org/aslv.html - Sun, 20 Jan 2008 11:48am | ||
| Meantime Mike User Info... | McLovin Ill give an old age pass, but it was the ride to Cow High era by then and we'd be cranking Bathory, Venom, Razor, etc >:) We got away with it because our bus driver had a crush on Jake Zentner - Sun, 20 Jan 2008 12:54pm | ||
| The Coug User Info... | Ryan you're wrong dude. So wrong. When me and my buddies want to listen to some Dimmu Borgir, and wear capes we know where to go. Pitiful PC "happy" people like you are NOT INVITED!!! - Sun, 20 Jan 2008 4:28pm Edited: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 4:28pm | ||
| Doc User Info... | "Satanists are no different than christians, as both are followed by the weak minded who need to believe in something to make their pitiful existence seem less futile." That's a pretty lofty statement Chopper when you consider that about 1/2 of the worlds population is Christian in one form or another*. This may be just a guess, but maybe 3 BILLION people know something that you don't. ~Sucking cock rules so long as it's your sucking and my cock Doc *Statistic taken from "In the Name of God" aired on CBS 22/12/07 - Mon, 21 Jan 2008 3:48pm | ||
| McLovin User Info... | Yeah, I was talking about 83-86, I only lasted a month at Cow High. The preppies on your bus must have been ready to commit mass suicide. - Mon, 21 Jan 2008 4:18pm | ||
| McLovin User Info... | Cathy was my bus driver, as long as I played a few 70's tunes and didnt smoke on the bus she was cool. In hindsight, tough job she had, we could be dicks. - Mon, 21 Jan 2008 4:20pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Then I guess all the worlds mythologies are still viable religions right Doc? In 10,000 years when archaeologists are digging our culture up, Christianity will be labeled as just that, mythology. I took confirmation classes in the 70's when my family was still involved with the United Church, so it's not like I've never picked up the bible. - Mon, 21 Jan 2008 4:26pm Edited: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 4:33pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | Religion did help a lot of savage cultures bring themselves up to a civilized standard. I dont mean savage in racial terms either so calm down people...just calm down. - Mon, 21 Jan 2008 8:38pm | ||
| Drustanos User Info... | "Religion did help a lot of savage cultures bring themselves up to a civilized standard." I will agree with this. "Foundation" By Isaac Asimov is a good book on how religion can be used for a positive control of people. - Mon, 21 Jan 2008 8:50pm | ||
| MURDALIZER User Info... | Anybody read the 5th book of Moses? Suposed to explain some of the Devil stuff. - Mon, 21 Jan 2008 9:35pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Name a single thing that made any culture better for having contact with Christians, Andrew. A fictional work is just that, fiction, Drustanos. Thanks for the moot point. Are you surprised the bible explains Satan? A large portion of religions and mythologies contain 'evil'. it's used to keep the mindless sheep afraid of straying from the 'true path'. - Mon, 21 Jan 2008 9:45pm | ||
| Drustanos User Info... | On the whole, I agree with you Chopper. Christianity is a myth. And yeah most satanists are pretty much just embracing another side of Christianity. Yes, "Foundation" is a fictional work.. and so is the bible, and other mythology writings. We still can benefit from these texts, even if they are just stories made up to illustrate a point. Asimov heavily referenced the fall of Rome when writing foundation and was obviously influenced by Christianity as well. I found the use of religion in the book to directly relate to how Christians took over Europe. - Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:29pm Edited: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:31pm | ||
| McLovin User Info... |  | ||
| McLovin User Info... |  | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | I take it the Pollack part of that picture is the inflatable pink guitar. - Tue, 22 Jan 2008 3:59am | ||
| McLovin User Info... | I think I've offended myself. - Tue, 22 Jan 2008 3:04pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | chopper: the people that actually followed the rules of the church and taught their kids right and wrong. had a spouse, helped out in the community, treated their fellow man like a brother. The bible said not to slut around and not to steal and not to kill. I dont know all of the details but it is of my belief that it did "Civilize" some cultures. Like the nors and germans and scots, english, and all the other people who were lightyears behind the romans. The bible was a "handbook" to being civilized...and yes, it did had certain people getting rich and people greedy with power and it goes on and on even to this day I would be the last to support religion, but i do think that it was a neccesary step along the way for humans. Or in better words, a Natural step. And of course my view of things could and probably isn't perfect but i wasn't there and as old man trevor will be sure to remind you, I am still young :). - Wed, 23 Jan 2008 4:34pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | "the people that actually followed the rules of the church and taught their kids right and wrong." /who's the chruch to determine whats right and whats wrong? I believe there is a presence we cant explain; but to put all my beans in one basket is naive at best(maybe THAT's what religion should be about, believing in somthing rather than nothing but not pressing the issue on people that CHOOSE not to believe in what you do). Religion is somthing that is there so, like chopper said, the sheep of the world have something to believe in. And whats more is that certain religions, while we see its benefits in terms of development of a culture, in those developments we did see alot of Christianity being almost forced upon people(back in the era' when religion was considered law; by those that believed in it). Your points are very true Andrew; but only if Christianity were the only religion the world believed in. Ie) what we think is God could be the bringer of Death in another religion. So, I dont disagree that some cultures may have benefited from having somthing to believe in; but to go as far as saying "The bible was a "handbook" to being civilized" is pretty much saying if you believe in Buddha, Vishnu, or Zeus your not civilized... unless i completely read you wrong. But that's how I've interpreted your comments. In fact that's the biggest problem I have with christianity or the extremist christians that press their beliefs on to someone that clearly believes in somthing else but since people take to heart that "The bible was a "handbook" to being civilized" it doesn't leave room for any other of our worlds religions/belief/myths/etc... - Wed, 23 Jan 2008 4:57pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | to them it was. or, religion in the place of "the bible" i duno. i was going ona limb. i didnt mean to say that other religions weren't civilized or that atheists weren't i was just arguing this viewpoint. Mostly to see waht people would say (i wasn't there so i could be so wrong) to see if my theory could be right lol. the dark ages sucked...religion sucks... people were a lot dumber back then.. ..still are.. - Thu, 24 Jan 2008 2:09am Edited: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 2:18am | ||
| Chopper User Info... | Taught them right from wrong? Are you serious? Did they also teach them to rip entire cultures away from their own, long standing, belief systems? How about ripping children from the arms of their 'savage' parents so they can be sent off to residential schools to be made 'civilized', where both young boys and girls were raped and physically/mentally abused by their christian captors? I'm sure they also taught them to quash anything that isn't remotely christian and slaughter innocents (Inquisition, Salem witch trials)? The list of christian attrocities towards other theologies is long and well known. This is what christianity brings to any non-christian culture, and nothing more. Don't try to play Devil's Advocate, if you don't know what you're talking about, Andrew. - Thu, 24 Jan 2008 11:45am | ||
| KimberleyKaos User Info... |  | ||
| Jl User Info... | couldn't agree with you more chop. I was gunna leave the inquisition out of it though :P. In all honesty, to even try and argue that Christianity was the sole key to "advancing" a civilization is faily naive. Especially when the world is populated with dozens(if not hundreds) of different beliefs and morals. - Thu, 24 Jan 2008 2:50pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | Well it is sometimes "fun" to try to see things from the other side even if it's wrong. Debating rules. Trying picking the other side once in a while. - Thu, 24 Jan 2008 5:56pm Edited: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 5:58pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | K I guess ur all right...religion did nothing positive for humanity. The many famous thinkers philosophers and scientists of the last few centuries were all atheists...They weren't inpired by god or what they percieved to be god. Nope. And chopper where do u get the nerve to say "DONT PLAY DEVILS ADVOCATE IF YOU KNOW NOTHING" holy fuck man, chill. Id rather say something and be argued wrong than say nothing and be stupid to the truth. - Thu, 24 Jan 2008 6:03pm Edited: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 6:13pm | ||
| Doc User Info... | Chopper, Christianity DID civilize the ENTIRE European continent between AD 454 and AD 1456. Before the church, Europe was populated by tribal, mostly illeterate, nomadic groups of hunter gatherers. Enter the church. A little conversion here, a little education there and BLAMO!!!! People start settling into urban societies, raising crops, trading, READING. All of the great Greek and Roman philosophers of the classical age that modern intellectuals like to ponder so much? They would all be lost if not for Christians rescuing them when Rome was sacked. Who built sailing ships that enabled them to explore the world and discover YOUR home?....that's right CHRISTIANS!!! Oh, and let's not forget, how many of the indigeonous people of North America were literate, or even had written language before the Christians came? Oh yeah, NONE! As for the Inquisition, while it was nomimally associated with the Catholic Church, it was, for all intents and purposes, the secret police force of Fernando and Isabella and nothing more. Maybe you should avoid making broad generalizations next time, they can make you look a little silly. ~Jesus loves you Doc - Thu, 24 Jan 2008 8:01pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... |  | ||
| Andrew User Info... | oh what.. - Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:44pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | It's called Yoga, you should try a class. Trust me. - Thu, 24 Jan 2008 11:49pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | hook it up dogg - Fri, 25 Jan 2008 6:48am | ||
| J User Info... | "Oh, and let's not forget, how many of the indigeonous people of North America were literate, or even had written language before the Christians came? Oh yeah, NONE!" i guess we'll just forget about all the disease(the pox?) and killing the "christians" brought the indigeonous people of north america then right? Because they CLEARLY needed to be civilized. What you've said Doc, and how I've interpreted it, is that your saying all these cultures(aside from the origins of Christianity) "needed" to be civilized and the Bible was the only way to do it. Aren't we seeing exactly that from the United States in the Middle East? Or how about Veitnam? What Im trying to say is, who are/is christians/christianity as a whole to determine what or who needs to be civilized? The problem I have with people and history is exactly that. We say that these cultures "needed" to be civilized, but civilized in our eyes/ways could be completely backwards to others. And for us to lay down the "chritianity brought civilization" to the world is way to broad of a statement as well. - Fri, 25 Jan 2008 1:46pm | ||
| Deitrosity User Info... |  | ||
| J User Info... | organized religion; a much better way of starting this arguement should've left out "christianity" and just used organized religion. In this case I would agree whole heartly that each culture relied on what they believe in to advance themselves spiritiually and physically. Its when the cross-overs happen; ie)indigenous peoples to north america.... who are we to determine whether they needed our help or not? When christians "believed" they had to spread they're "civilized" way of life, is where I draw the line. If someone "chooses" to believe in christianity, then so be it; but nobody should be pressured into believing in something they dont want to(that's where christians/catholics/western religions have a problem, in my opinion). - Fri, 25 Jan 2008 2:29pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | i started the argument and i never once referred to christianity or christians. Go figure lol. - Fri, 25 Jan 2008 4:30pm | ||
| Drustanos User Info... | Its okay Andrew. This is like a fight between 5 year olds over what colour of Kool-Aid is better anyway. - Fri, 25 Jan 2008 4:40pm | ||
| KimberleyKaos User Info... | I use koolaid in my hair. - Fri, 25 Jan 2008 5:04pm | ||
| Drustanos User Info... | Red is best. - Fri, 25 Jan 2008 6:18pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0bi5lC0eVU - Fri, 25 Jan 2008 6:50pm | ||
| Doc User Info... | Andrew: No, you didn't bring Christianity up directly, that was Chopper, and I agree whole heartedly with what you did say, whether you do or not. It was a good point. J: My statement was a little too broad, since the Chinese played a huge role after Europe established stable trade with them in the 16th century. Aside from that, I stand by what I said. The peoples of Europe and North America may not have "needed" civilizing as you put it, but I see that you have no problem what so ever with taking advantage of that civilization. Deitrosity: You are clearly not illiterate, but as for your status as a heathen, that has yet to be shown definitively one way or the other. To all of you who challenge or doubt my statements, I challenge you to voluntarily give up your computers, telephones, electricity, automobiles (including public transit) and go live off the land. All of these things were ultimately brought about by the expansion of the Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox churches throughout Europe and the Americas. ~Take this all of you and eat it... Doc - Fri, 25 Jan 2008 9:27pm | ||
| Deitrosity User Info... | "every one we know is either dead or a zombie" hahaha, awe,....damn. - Sat, 26 Jan 2008 4:40am | ||
| J User Info... | the stone age brought us the wheel, and those neanderthal's definitely didn't know what "god" or "religion" was... what makes you think that we as a human race/species wouldn't evdevour to advance on that technology without organized religion? I realise that people need somthing to believe in; but in all fairness I have a little more faith in our species than some do. My thoughts are if there weren't any religion(so to speak of), we may be a couple years behind where we are now; but that certainly doesn't mean we'd be in a dark age because there wasn't a "god" or "diety"(sp?) to believe in or we'd be less "civilized". But that's solely my opinion and based on nothing more than that. (im more intrested in what doc or andrew has to say, since they've been the active ones around here and haven't taken the piss out of what we've been talking about) - Sat, 26 Jan 2008 9:18am | ||
| Morgoth User Info... | First off "not related to this thread". Deitrosity, is that you Adam? Anyways... Chopper, Christianity DID civilize the ENTIRE European continent between AD 454 and AD 1456. Before the church, Europe was populated by tribal, mostly illeterate, nomadic groups of hunter gatherers. Enter the church. A little conversion here, a little education there and BLAMO!!!! People start settling into urban societies, raising crops, trading, READING. All of the great Greek and Roman philosophers of the classical age that modern intellectuals like to ponder so much? They would all be lost if not for Christians rescuing them when Rome was sacked. Who built sailing ships that enabled them to explore the world and discover YOUR home?....that's right CHRISTIANS!!! Oh, and let's not forget, how many of the indigeonous people of North America were literate, or even had written language before the Christians came? Oh yeah, NONE! As for the Inquisition, while it was nomimally associated with the Catholic Church, it was, for all intents and purposes, the secret police force of Fernando and Isabella and nothing more. Maybe you should avoid making broad generalizations next time, they can make you look a little silly. ~Jesus loves you Doc That is complete bullshit! Christians destroyed most of the Ancient/Mystical/Arab literature, so much so that the first people that started the Renaissance such as Petrarch, had to travel to the Middle East to find very few amounts of them. It is true that Popes had secret libraries but even with that, most people demonized the Pagan religions and destroyed every work contained in them. The gods/goddesses were turned into demons! And second of all. The Greeks and Romans were much more intellectually advanced than the Christians ever where (until the 15th century). If you look at books like the Odyssey or the advanced sculpting and painting techniques they had, it simply surpasses anything that Christians had in the Middle Ages. The only time they advanced past the Classical Age is when they started using the Classical books as reference. The difference here is that the Romans and Greeks went past good and evil, instead of the stupid Christian ideals. So anyways your argument is bullshit and negates any real evidence about the Classical world and Christianity. The most influential movements ever was when people started to move away from Christian ideals (think the Renaissance, Romanticism, Enlightenment etc) Last of all: "Who built sailing ships that enabled them to explore the world and discover YOUR home?....that's right CHRISTIANS" Actually the Egyptians did. The advancement came when the Greeks built ships and than the Vikings. Notice that the Vikings traveled all across the world before Christians ever did (Christians started traveling a lot in the 15th century). "Enter the church. A little conversion here, a little education there and BLAMO!!!! People start settling into urban societies, raising crops, trading, READING."\ So did every other culture before Christianity and they did it better. "They would all be lost if not for Christians rescuing them when Rome was sacked." Are you talking about the sacking in 846? It's funny that the CHRISTIANS OWNED THE CITY AND LIVED IN IT. If you are talking of past incidences, than I am confused since Romans warded off such forces as Atilla etc.. "Oh, and let's not forget, how many of the indigeonous people of North America were literate, or even had written language before the Christians came?" They wrote in their own methods and had their own magical and belief system. If any other religion had came here (Hinduism, Paganism etc) the exact same thing would have happened. Besides, you think natives are more intelligent now than they used to be? They had a lot of methods that Christians did not, so the opposite side could be argued easily. "As for the Inquisition, while it was nomimally associated with the Catholic Church, it was, for all intents and purposes, the secret police force of Fernando and Isabella" COMPLETE BULLSHIT. Millions of people went to foreign lands. There were only a handful of secret police. If you know anything about history, you will know that millions of people went over for looting purposes "in the name of god". Or they went to Africa due to the Wiseman prophecies saying their are rich Christian kingdoms in Africa. It was the peoples decisions to go not the reign of of two people. Since uhm christianization had been happening for centuries upon centuries! To conclude.. YOURE WHOLE ARGUMENT WAS UTTER BULLSHIT, just as the religion you are trying to defend. ~ Jesus was only a prophet. Morgoth - Sat, 26 Jan 2008 2:23pm Edited: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 2:34pm | ||
| Doc User Info... | Morgoth: YOU WROTE: "They wrote in their own methods and had their own magical and belief system." THE FACTS: Zero of the indigeonous groups in North America had any form of language or communication that was not ORAL. YOU WROTE: Millions of people went to foreign lands. There were only a handful of secret police. If you know anything about history, you will know that millions of people went over for looting purposes "in the name of god". THE FACTS: Millions of people did go to foreign lands in the name of God, BUT, the INQUISITION, which was the point I addressed to which you responded, was formed in SPAIN, by Fernando and Isabella, it operated predominantly IN SPAIN and was used mostly as a secret police force by the aforementioned monarchs. YOU WROTE: Are you talking about the sacking in 846? It's funny that the CHRISTIANS OWNED THE CITY AND LIVED IN IT. If you are talking of past incidences, than I am confused since Romans warded off such forces as Atilla etc.. THE FACTS: Rome was sacked in AD 476 and the last Western Emperor deposed by Odoacer. Yes, the Christians did live in the city, but that does NOT change the fact that the clergy saved the classical documents of which I spoke. YOU WROTE: Christians destroyed most of the Ancient/Mystical/Arab literature, so much so that the first people that started the Renaissance such as Petrarch, had to travel to the Middle East to find very few amounts of them THE FACTS: Muslim literature was NOT destroyed by Christians travelling to the Middle East. Firstly, the majority of scholarly writings from the Muslim world were actually generated in Spain (the Muslims ruled it until 1492) and in Indonesia (still the largest Muslim population in the world today). Yes, scholars of the Enightenment did have to travel to the Muslim world to find these writings. Secondly, all the scholars in the Rennaisance and Enlightenment, while not necessarily Catholic were, in Europe atleast, still ALL CHRISTIANS. YOU WROTE: Actually the Egyptians did. The advancement came when the Greeks built ships and than the Vikings. Notice that the Vikings traveled all across the world before Christians ever did (Christians started traveling a lot in the 15th century). THE FACTS: While Scandanavians, Egyptians, and Greeks all builts ships before the Europeans, the innovation in ship building that lead to the sailing ships that Europeans used to explore (remember these guys went much farther in much shorter time that the people you mentioned) occurred in England and the design was not even REMOTELY related to earlier ship building techniques. YOU WROTE: To conclude.. YOURE WHOLE ARGUMENT WAS UTTER BULLSHIT, just as the religion you are trying to defend. THE FACTS: My statements are all based on facts and research (I do alot of that as a history major) and your attack on religion is simply jeuvenile. Finally, while you may feel that Jesus was only a prophet, countless others, including Muslims, feel that he was and is the Messiah. Hell the Muslims even think that he is the one who will return at the time of final judgement. To conclude...My argument is supported by documented historical FACT, and you appear to just be attacking it at random and even arguing against something entirely different at other times (like the inquisition issue). Maybe you should try openning a book, that might help. ~Jesus still loves you, even if I don't Doc - Sat, 26 Jan 2008 3:20pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | We NEED a quote button. My Scandinavian ancestors, who were Europeans btw doc, traveled down the Volga and carved graffiti into the walls of now ancient Cristian churches in Constantinople which can be seen to this day. Haha! http://exociti.org/set01/cont14.htm Jesus would be nothing without his eastern education. - Sat, 26 Jan 2008 3:33pm Edited: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 3:37pm | ||
| Doc User Info... | Yes Trevor, you're right they were/are Europeans, and I appologise for seeming to exclude them in my last statement. It is not my intent to slight you or your ancestors, or anyone's for that matter. Were your acncestors Norse, Swedish Danish, a combination? ~Viking - Anglo-Saxon word meaning "Oh shit, not those bastards from the north again." Doc - Sat, 26 Jan 2008 3:57pm Edited: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 3:58pm | ||
| J User Info... | so lets take it from this view, if christianity wasn't so prevelant as it is in today's society; do you think our development(s) as human beings would be set back? or would be very close, if not, in the same place as we are now? Personally, from what i've been saying from before; I believe we, as a human race, WOULD have developed into our way of life simply because of human nature and our need to be more than we are. You(doc) agree'd that Egyptians built ships. And through trial and error; do you not think that they could advance on that technology and build ships equivilant or better than that of their European counterparts? My arguement is that people hold to much to religion and less faith in us as a species. Even back in the dark ages; people strived to be more than they were. So why cant that philosophy hold true?(aside from the obveous that religion is a prevelant part of today's society and how people perceive it was built) When it comes down to it, (doc)you sound almost preechy to the history of the bible where as Morgoth is using a 3rd person perspective on things. Sure people felt Christianity helped their way of life; and they wrote about it(aka the bible). But that doesn't mean the indigenous people of North America "needed" our "help" to be part of a more "civilized" world. Im sure in your history readings, doc, there are more documented ways of communications that the Indigenous people had as opposed to "hand signals" lol. Just because we couldn't understand them didn't mean they couldn't understand themselves. - Sat, 26 Jan 2008 4:22pm | ||
| Doc User Info... | J, I don't think that the Egytians could have expanded on their technology no, because their society collapsed under constant invasion by varioius Muslim armies. The Arabs themselves seem to have stopped exploring science and engineering after they re-captured Jerusalem in the late 11th century (I admit that I don't know why). I'm not saying that Christianity itself is directly responsible for the advances of western civilization, but I certainly believe that it was responsible for creating the (mostly) stable society that allowed for those advances. I'm not preaching Christianity to anybody (I think you should be free to believe what you want) and I'm not preaching anything about the Bible itself. I'm talking about general world history. Morgoth's 3rd person perspective (as you call it) is either grossly misinformed, skewed by personal prejudices against christianity, a combination of the two, or just plain ignorant. I'm not here saying that Christianity is wonderful, I'm just saying it's(basically) responsible for western civilization as we know it (which it is. ~I'm not drunk officer, drinking doesn't mix well with the dope. Doc P.S. Christianity IS wonderful. - Sat, 26 Jan 2008 4:53pm | ||
| Morgoth User Info... | Great post J. First off stop being so immature. I don't need you to write "The Facts". In fact every one of my arguments was taken from either Wikipedia or History books, so unfortunately your "Facts" have no validity. THE FACTS: Zero of the indigineous groups in North America had any form of language or communication that was not ORAL. FROM HISTORY: Fine, you're right they did only have Oral History. However this does not exclude the fact that they had an advanced magical, healing, communicational system that has slowly gone down the drain due to the Christianization of North America. Native Reserves are less intelligence than the society they had hundreds of years ago. Second of all you didn't address the fact that if ANY other religion had inquisitioned our soil, the same would have happened. THE FACTS: Millions of people did go to foreign lands in the name of God, BUT, the INQUISITION, which was the point I addressed to which you responded, was formed in SPAIN, by Fernando and Isabella, it operated predominantly IN SPAIN and was used mostly as a secret police force by the aforementioned monarchs. FROM HISTORY: I don't care if it was created by Fernando and Isabella. Christians absolutely hated any other religion. They would have gotten any means to travel to other lands to become rich and spread the "word of teh god". You can't actually make me believe that it is only the fault of those two people? Millions of people went because they wanted to pillage other lands and spread their word. Only a small part of it was that it was the ideals of the Powerhouses in charge. So..maybe you didn't catch what I said about the Three Wisemen. During the early renaissance, thousands upon thousands of Christians wanted to explore Africa due to the myth of these Wisemen. They thought that their would be great wealthy Christian kingdoms. So these hundreds of thousands of people inquisited Africa. They did not find these kingdoms and instead raped, pillaged, converted etc the countrysides of Africa. They may have had to have permission from a monarch but it was clearly the populations idea. THE FACTS: Rome was sacked in AD 476 and the last Western Emperor deposed by Odoacer. Yes, the Christians did live in the city, but that does NOT change the fact that the clergy saved the classical documents of which I spoke. Pagans also kept their works as well. That is until they were slaughtered and tortured by Christian zealots. You think that a few classical works survived by priests? Well how about the millions burned by Christians, such as the burning of the Library of Alexandria etc etc? Like I said, Petrarch and other Renaissance artists had to go all the way to the Middle East to find any classical works. Funny however since Islamic and Hindu religions kept these works instead of Jesuits who burnt them without reading their contents. THE FACTS: Muslim literature was NOT destroyed by Christians traveling to the Middle East. Firstly, the majority of scholarly writings from the Muslim world were actually generated in Spain (the Muslims ruled it until 1492) and in Indonesia (still the largest Muslim population in the world today). Yes, scholars of the Enlightenment did have to travel to the Muslim world to find these writings. Secondly, all the scholars in the Renaissance and Enlightenment, while not necessarily Catholic were, in Europe at-least, still ALL CHRISTIANS. FROM HISTORY: You must have misread my post. I never talked about muslim literature. ENLIGHTENMENT WTF HUH?? It was the Renaissance, when people had to travel to find these books. Enlightenment was hundreds of years later when all the literature was easily established in Europe. Who cares if they were Christians?? Renaissance scholars said "we can learn from the classical age but not adopt any of it's ideals in our religion". They simply changed their ideology from the Middle Ages. What are you trying to prove here? THE FACTS: While Scandanavians, Egyptians, and Greeks all builts ships before the Europeans, the innovation in ship building that lead to the sailing ships that Europeans used to explore (remember these guys went much farther in much shorter time that the people you mentioned) occurred in England and the design was not even REMOTELY related to earlier ship building techniques. FROM HISTORY: I never said that European ships weren't better. Their still is the fact that the Vikings travelled to around the world before anyone in the Middle Ages and that the Egyptians and Greeks invented boats. Yes they were related! They did not build space ships or anything.. they still built ships. THE FACTS: My statements are all based on facts and research (I do alot of that as a history major) and your attack on religion is simply jeuvenile. FROM HISTORY: I am also taking a history major. I don't see how what im typing is jeuvenile. All im trying to do here is have an intelligent debate. To me it seems as though you are trying to defend Christian values. You cannot see any of the bad that Christians have done and how your religion has destroyed countless cultures for thousands of years. - Sat, 26 Jan 2008 5:16pm | ||
| Morgoth User Info... | "I'm not here saying that Christianity is wonderful, I'm just saying it's(basically) responsible for western civilization as we know it (which it is." I didn't know that we were arguing wether or not Christianity was influential on western culture. It was. However Christianity only spanned (in mass culture) for around 1500 years. If you are discrediting Greek, Roman, Babylonian, Mesopotamian, Egyptian etc culture from influencing western culture than you really must think Christianity is wondrous. So I mean.. who is to say that other cultures wouldn't have been more advanced in Western culture by this day? I certainly see hinduism, shamanism and paganism as being much more complex and unearthly than a book of tales ever was. Again, "a book of tales" from my perspective. Perhaps not from your perspective, although hinduism and paganism are also book of tales to you, so don't worry I am not attacking Christianity. - Sat, 26 Jan 2008 5:27pm Edited: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 5:30pm | ||
| Doc User Info... | Okay Morgoth, I think I see where we have gotten mixed up. You wrote in your last post: "I didn't know that we were arguing wether or not Christianity was influential on western culture." The fact is, that is exactly the point that I was making in response to statements posted by Chopper before everyone jumped on the lets bash Christianity band wagon. While I am a firm beleiver in the Catholic doctrine (laugh all you want) I am NOT in any way defending the actions of Christian Europeans throughout the world, though I think in large part, their being Christian had nothing to do with it. In response to what you posted about the 3 wise men, the Christians never found them because they were looking for Christian kings when in fact they were Zoroastrians. About your degree, what year are you in? Are you at UVic or Camosun? It'd be a laugh if we actually had classes together. ~My God is bigger than your God Doc P.S. Jesus still loves you. - Sat, 26 Jan 2008 6:46pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Lillehammer. I forgive you Doc. Dublin was originally a Norwegian trading post. - Sat, 26 Jan 2008 8:11pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | 'THE FACTS: Millions of people did go to foreign lands in the name of God, BUT, the INQUISITION, which was the point I addressed to which you responded, was formed in SPAIN, by Fernando and Isabella, it operated predominantly IN SPAIN and was used mostly as a secret police force by the aforementioned monarchs.' Really? It was instituted by Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) in Rome. Pope Gregory IX established the Inquisition, in 1233, to combat the heresy of the Abilgenses, a religious sect in France. By 1255, the Inquisition was in full gear throughout Central and Western Europe; although it was never instituted in England or Scandinavia. This was almost 200yrs PRIOR to the Spanish Inquisition. As for a lot of your other facts, such as lack of technology without christians, they're as easily picked apart as the above little tidbit. But a lot of us already know that. You're the only one that seems to be afraid to admit the actual facts. But don't forget folks we're the ones who need to pick up a book... - Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:55am Edited: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:58am | ||
| Andrew User Info... | you should have said "Dont forget MY FRIENDS" it has a better ring. ;) lol - Sun, 27 Jan 2008 11:01am | ||
| KimberleyKaos User Info... |  | ||
| Andrew User Info... | it just goes to show how dumb people were back then....or desperate. who knows. - Mon, 28 Jan 2008 4:45pm | ||
| The Other Nick User Info... | cripes...cant believe someone is trying to glorify christianity.....good to see there are still enemies in that camp ....to quote inquisition - kill with hate: "!!Massacre the holy ones again and again This is a battle that will never have an end!!!" BACK TO THE BLACK MASS!!!! where and when!!! to quote hour of 13 - call to satan: "light the candles in thirteen at each side than in between in the circle here I stand naked in wait in the pentagram with sacred blade self mutilate to my own wounds I masturbate in a sweat and semen soaked surrounded haze of insence smoke an offering whose bowels be let it's carcass placed on chantry set in spoken tongues the songs I sing along with three solomn bells to ring" sounds fun to me ps. how about this: a physicist studies physics...a satanist studies satan - Mon, 28 Jan 2008 7:48pm Edited: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 7:52pm | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | That's some of the silliest shit I've ever heard. Along with the rest of this thread. Good work! - Mon, 28 Jan 2008 7:50pm | ||
| 1986 User Info... | blah blah blah evil satan religious threads = message board fun - Mon, 28 Jan 2008 7:53pm | ||
| Chopper User Info... | How about this, The Other Nick. To believe in Satan is to believe in God. They're both of the same pantheon and one cannot exist without the other. Hard to study something that has never existed, outside of religious literature and fictional works, like every other mythology. And if cutting is your thing, since you seemed to find those lyrics 'fun', then you need to go to emo anonymous. - Tue, 29 Jan 2008 1:08am | ||
| Doc User Info... | It's not hard at all Chopper, lots of people study fictional literature and it's subjects. However, you can't prove definitively that God or Satan don't exist, just as I or anyone can't prove definitively that they do. ~Peace through superior fire power Doc - Tue, 29 Jan 2008 7:30am | ||
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| KimberleyKaos User Info... |  ELVIS IS MY RELIGION - Tue, 29 Jan 2008 9:30am | ||
| KimberleyKaos User Info... |  This was from an actual site, claiming Elvis and Jesus are one, and even take quotes from the music and compare similarities with the "book". - Tue, 29 Jan 2008 9:36am | ||
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