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If You're Serious About Remembrance Day...
| Message Board > Controversy and Quarantine > If You're Serious About Remembrance Day... |
| David Arthur Johnston User Info... |  - Remember well. Remember they died for an ideal of freedom.... everything is so fucked... an ocean of suffering. remember well. It is only a love of truth that can maintain a state of freedom. We are assailed. Assailed by a lazy frightened mind that must be ignorant of itself to survive... and that ignorance kills everything. Defenses so ingrained that some people may have not even read this far. This is what happens in the future- a dedication to find the root of suffering and a finding of it, en mass. A transition period where the immature begin to become mature, exponentially, until it engulfs the planet- a transition period where we feel the curse of 'over-populating' while being dependent on corruption. We come to the grand conclusion... that the universe is a singular thing and cannot be varied from; that all motion is determined by the motion before it, invariably making the future the only thing it can be; the idea that for every 'choice' made one could only be who they were where they were at the time, indicating that there is no 'choice' and no reason to hate... or fear. ... then we analyze our own selves so that we may not be hypocrites- we stop supporting all notion of pride, having no concern of 'doing' because we know we can only 'be'. Then we be the thing that we are, no longer restrained from evolving by the lies necessary to maintain capitalism... we begin to enjoy the idea that it is better to stand naked with nothing than it is to be a slave in comfort. patience be with us all. all this has been said before and it will be said again peace - Thu, 8 Nov 2007 9:45am | ||
| Dr.DoomXXX User Info... | That's his 151's post. I want some 151 \m/ - Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:20am | ||
| JDL User Info... | Daj, you might be comfortable where you are; not motivation, or desire for anything. As I've said before; these aren't the ideals you want to instill on your child. If we are to "just be"; then I'll do everything in my power to keep from just "being" to striving for more everyday. When you lose sight of striving to be better; then you are just "being". I get bored of "just being". Call me a glutton, call it pride, call my life a sin; at least Im happy(false or not). And you'll have to deal with that. So no matter what your ideals, polices, out-look on life maybe, it will always differ from just about everyone else. Your child deserves better than what your going to offer. Just remember that when your child is sick and theres no one to turn to; except our health care system which bends over for anyone(most of the time) or would you be too stubborn and pride driven in your beliefs that you'd let your child die before seeking help from a society filled with, what YOU consider, fakes? Thats an answer Id love to hear, and dont fill it with philisophical bullshit. - Thu, 8 Nov 2007 2:52pm | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | Don't get involved. - Thu, 8 Nov 2007 5:17pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Don't desecrate Remembrance day. Asshole. - Thu, 8 Nov 2007 5:28pm | ||
| Sati User Info... | That was my first thought, exactly. - Thu, 8 Nov 2007 5:58pm | ||
| 1986 User Info... | more like "rememberance GAY" - Thu, 8 Nov 2007 11:24pm | ||
| Mutilashawn User Info... | 1986, you're always the voice of sanity and purity in these sick, corrupt times. - Fri, 9 Nov 2007 12:26am | ||
| Doc User Info... | 1986, that has to be one of the most insensitive, ignorant things ever written (or typed). Let's set aside for a moment my personal feelings about war and violence and take a look at what the people we're supposed to be remembering actually did. These are men who travelled far from home and gave their lives to help others that they didn't even know. Often they lived in circumstances far worse than those that DAJ aspires to, ate food that you and I would hesitate to touch for the purpose of throwing out, and then went out and put themselves in harms way to free others from opression. If you got a problem with rememberance day fine, that's your thing, but before you go making light of it, you should stop and reflect on what exactly these people did to deserve our rememberance. ~My God is bigger than your God Doc P.S. For the record, I am completely agains war, or violence of any kind (except professional sports). - Fri, 9 Nov 2007 1:38am | ||
| Dr.DoomXXX User Info... | Well that's about %0.000001 of what they went through. I guess some twerps just find it fashionable to rip on veterans and war casualties. - Fri, 9 Nov 2007 1:52am | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Well said Doc. I was infuriated when I first read 1986's post. I held back from posting an emotional response because I didn't want to be trolled. Your response was much more well spoken than I could have come up with. Thanks. ~My dog is bigger than your dog. - Fri, 9 Nov 2007 2:07am | ||
| The Other Nick User Info... | "you should stop and reflect on what exactly these people did to deserve our rememberance" there is just as much violence and suffering and sacrifice going on RIGHT NOW as there was during the world wars. why do we need a special day to remember the existance of suffering in the past when the suffering of the current population is being shoved down our faces every day on the news, internet and by anti-war protesters. Clearly no one really remembers the horrors of war or there wouldnt be any anymore..... Rememberance day is only nessesary IF THERE IS NO MORE CURRENT WAR...(which will never happen) but what do i know...please illuminate - Fri, 9 Nov 2007 7:35am Edited: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 7:37am | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=KYlrrAWCTRg - Fri, 9 Nov 2007 11:49am | ||
| Jl User Info... | "there is just as much violence and suffering and sacrifice going on RIGHT NOW as there was during the world wars" last i heard there's no fights against a holocaust or (armenian) massacre's... aside from a handful of deaths to compare now to then. Sure it sounds callous; but war and violence was much more raw compared to these days. Our casulties over seas matches about 1/10 of the casualties in ww2 or ww1. No one is conscripted anymore to fight for their countries; thankfully some actually realise what people have went through to give us the oppourtunity to challenge the means and respect of rememberance day and to voice our opinions like we are now. THAT's why I feel we should remember those that sacrificed their lives for US. Nobody likes war; and 1 death is just as bad as 100. But as it stands theres absolutely no comparison to the war days of the past. I will be reflecting as much as I do on rememberance day(granted i'll probly be a little hung over). I remember~! - Fri, 9 Nov 2007 1:43pm | ||
| J. Peatman User Info... | "Remember well. Remember they died for an ideal of freedom...." That's right, DAJ. They died fighting ACTUAL fascism. - Fri, 9 Nov 2007 2:01pm | ||
| Eurydice User Info... | I will remember that it's my anniversary. It's so sweet of all those folks walking around wearing poppies just for me and the other Nick, although I would have chosen daisies myself.... - Fri, 9 Nov 2007 4:59pm | ||
| The Other Nick User Info... | HITKER ITKWE HITEER HILER HITKER HITLER HITLER yrsdjythguyf cgfdg gfd'gheftrd 'gyted hjfhf fdhrey ' my grandfatrher fought reluctantly for the axis - Fri, 9 Nov 2007 6:41pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | I don't understand at all what you're trying to say? - Fri, 9 Nov 2007 9:43pm | ||
| Mutilashawn User Info... | 14 drinks will do that to an argument - Sat, 10 Nov 2007 1:22am | ||
| Dr.DoomXXX User Info... | and 55million deaths in the 40's warrants a day of memory to all who suffered. If it rubs anyone the wrong way this has to be one of the easiest things to ignore. Just make sure not to think of the people who fought and died for our freedom tomorrow. But if they didn't the nazi's would have taken the world, which was their agenda. Don't mind me, I just woke up and I'm a little groggy. - Sat, 10 Nov 2007 8:37pm | ||
| Aidan Logins User Info... | "These are men who travelled far from home and gave their lives to help others that they didn't even know." Actually they killed people. - Sun, 11 Nov 2007 10:07am | ||
| Doc User Info... | Actually, yeah they did, and if they hadn't then you wouldn't be able to enjoy the free life of ignorance that you do today. You don't have to be in favour of it, you don't have to like it, but you sure as shit owe it to those men to shut your fuckin' yap and respect their sacrifice. ~My God is bigger than your God Doc - Sun, 11 Nov 2007 5:28pm | ||
| round em up User Info... | Well Aiden,sure they killed people. They killed people so you could do things like post your opinion on the internet without having your door kicked in and "disappear", or you could grow up not needing to worry about being gassed and having your skin used in making lamp shades just cause you follow a certin religion or were born a certin race. It was weak-kneed pacifist fools like yourself that were too cowardly to stop Hitler in the thirties when he was weak, that led us down the road to over 50 million dead. Try spending less time trying to look like one of the Beatles and grab a history book and look up appeasememt. It may have a few big words in it though, so you might want to wait for your voice to change before you try reading it... - Sun, 11 Nov 2007 5:36pm Edited: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 5:59pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Solid response. Hit the nail on the head. I most enjoyed the last paragraph. - Sun, 11 Nov 2007 7:53pm | ||
| Aidan Logins User Info... | They killed people so you could do things like post your opinion on the internet without having your door kicked in and "disappear", or you could grow up not needing to worry about being gassed and having your skin used in making lamp shades just cause you follow a certin religion or were born a certin race. yeah... but they KILLED PEOPLE. - Sun, 11 Nov 2007 8:44pm | ||
| Aidan Logins User Info... | "Try spending less time trying to look like one of the Beatles and grab a history book and look up appeasememt. It may have a few big words in it though, so you might want to wait for your voice to change before you try reading it..." oh man I Just read that. Yeah, I do look like the Beatles and that made me giggle. But I also have a collection of about 200 history books and over a hundred philosophy books and many others and the collection continues to grow as I read them all. (I'm actually a writer [of post-philosophical prodigal son pieces]. That's how I make my living, besides music.) As for Hitler, he was a bad dude. I just get freaked out by wars and death. But he was only powerful because people listened to him and started killing. And I'm sure if Hitler was born a Canadian, Canadian's would have been the Nazis. I don't really see the whole war thing as Us vs Them. There are different influences from different areas. But the only time anything bad occurs war-wise is when People start killing other people. No matter what the reason. Trying to stop Hitler was defence. Which is good. But it's a shame that people had to listen to him in the first place. All I'm saying is: don't fall for the next Hitler. Boycott war. - Sun, 11 Nov 2007 9:16pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Harper, Hitler. They both start with H, end with ER and they both contain six letters. We are doomed. - Sun, 11 Nov 2007 10:46pm Edited: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 10:47pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | You find out what something is worth when you pay for it. http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=history/other/remember/why This is a quote from the above link, for Aidan- "Without freedom there can be no ensuring peace and without peace no enduring freedom."2 - Mon, 12 Nov 2007 12:00am Edited: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 3:55am | ||
| Aidan Logins User Info... | "It was weak-kneed pacifist fools like yourself that were too cowardly to stop Hitler in the thirties when he was weak, that led us down the road to over 50 million dead." and as for that bullshit- my basic point is this: if we were all "weak-kneed pacifist fools" then there would be no wars. Period. Hitler would have tried to take control- no one would have fought for him. Without an army he's just one crazy asshole. There would be Hitlers and Husseins and other bad dudes, but if no one killed for them then they would have no power and there would be no wars. It's people like you who follow people like Hitler because you're afraid that your freedom is in check. If Germany had been filled with a bunch of Aidan Logins types instead of a bunch of Round Em Up types, there would have been no holocaust. Good article. Nice quote. - Mon, 12 Nov 2007 9:20am | ||
| Doc User Info... | "if we were all "weak-kneed pacifist fools" then there would be no wars." An interesting point, but it will never happen. Unfortunately, pacifism is contrary to human nature. People have been fighting as long as there have been people. If you'd really read all those history books that you said that you own, you'd realize that Hitler was only able to come to power because of the situation in Germany at the time. He did not found the National Socialist party, he just managed to have himself made head of it, and had Germany not had an ineffective government imposed on it by the US, Britain and France, then the Nazis wouldn't have been able to manipulate the system until they were voted to the majority. The bottom line still remains, that regardless of your view of war, you certainly owe it to those veterans that went before you to show them some respect and aknowledge their sacrifice. All we ask is that you observe two minutes of silence on 11/11 at 1100. Really, is that asking too much? ~My God is bigger than your God Doc - Mon, 12 Nov 2007 10:10am | ||
| The Other Nick User Info... | IT SHOULD BE CALLED "VETERAN'S DAY" NOT "REMEMBERANCE DAY" also who cares if nazi germany won WWII a bunch of shit would have happened between then and now... who knows what the present world would be like if they did... it might have even ended up healthier than it is now...or worse....BUT YOU NEVER KNOW - Mon, 12 Nov 2007 1:20pm Edited: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 1:25pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | The world would be a nuclear wasteland. - Mon, 12 Nov 2007 2:06pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Or maybe after the Nazis won there may have been a resurgence somewhere and they may have been defeated in a revolutionary manner. That may have led to many things, such as less pollution and the Bush family being uninfluential. You just never know. - Mon, 12 Nov 2007 3:14pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Nazis are psycho. The only way they could have won would be if they fired nukes into London, Moscow, and the North American eastern seaboard. - Mon, 12 Nov 2007 3:40pm | ||
| Aidan Logins User Info... | "Hitler was only able to come to power because of the situation in Germany at the time." I realize that, but just because someone is in a political position it doesn't mean you have to listen to them. I wasn't talking about his position I was talking about his power. You can be elected God. But people still have to actually DO what you tell them before you have any power. - Mon, 12 Nov 2007 5:01pm | ||
| Doc User Info... | "...just because someone is in a political position it doesn't mean you have to listen to them." Sadly, yes you do. If you choose to start ignoring our elected leaders, then society begins to degenerate into disorder and possibly even anarchy. That's the point when you start to see human nature at it's worst. You think the shit we do to each other now is bad, just be glad you don't see people acting on instinct for survival, with no social structure to support anyone. Survival of the fittest (or most heavily armed) is not a pretty sight, just go and ask the Tutsi people of Rwanda, or Bosnian Serbs, or Croatians. You really have no idea how much you take your freedom and security for granted do you Aidan? Maybe it's because you're young, or maybe because you're blissfully ignorant. Either way, we all still, in my opinion, owe respect to those men who gave their lives in WWI and WWII so you could enjoy your freedom today. ~My God is bigger than your God Doc - Mon, 12 Nov 2007 10:14pm | ||
| Aidan Logins User Info... | I agree with ya Doc. I am not an anarchist. I dig the social structure and all that. I just draw the line at murder. - Tue, 13 Nov 2007 9:06pm | ||
| kay User Info... | What I dislike about rememberance day, even though it's past and who's going to care again till next year (be honest) is this whole "heroism" angle. Half of the fellas who went over to fight wars (all wars, not just WWI & II) did it because it was EXPECTED of them, and to be a good, patriotic canadian citizen in your parents and community's eyes. Not to go be killed for their beliefs and idealistic society. If you were of age and able to fight, and you didn't go along with the rest of your pals to sign right up and participate in glorious glorious war, then you were a social outcast. Not to mention subscription and how it came to be after people started realizing that the whole war thing isn't all it's cracked up to be, what with returning legless/armless vets. So, thanking vets as people who saved millions of lives: good. Celebrating vets for doing their job, which once you have you can't get out of is I think rather ridiculous, it's like celebrating bakers...we can thank em sure, but this whole ceremony importance stuff....nah. PS: fighting for our freedom as a nation is ridiculous, it would take much more armaments/transportation to conquer a nation of our size, it would be completely unrealistic. - Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:35am | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | I really don't think you understand what their "job" is/was. Bakers don't risk their lives and limbs. Bakers don't get covered in their co-workers blood and brain matter as they get blown to pieces right beside them. Bakers don't come home after work to suffer a lifetime of nightmares and psychological damage. World War 2 was the greatest battle between good and evil that human kind has ever endured. The participants are heroes of mankind. They deserve to be honored and NEVER forgotten. You imply that Canada was not directly affected and that the notion of fighting for our non threatened freedom is "ridiculous". How could you share a planet where one of the top five economic power house nations is run by Nazis? Agree or dis-agree with the motives for going, but don't question the bravery. - Wed, 14 Nov 2007 2:16am Edited: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 3:00am | ||
| Aidan Logins User Info... | "World War 2 was the greatest battle between good and evil that human kind has ever endured." Well not really. I mean it was the most famous battle between good and evil. But there have been greater tragedies of evil for sure. - Wed, 14 Nov 2007 9:29am | ||
| JDL User Info... | "fighting for our freedom as a nation is ridiculous, it would take much more armaments/transportation to conquer a nation of our size, it would be completely unrealistic." former soviet russia had the world shaking at their knees in the cold war. All it would take to conquer a "nation our size"(with the population of california as our whole countries population) is nuclear warfare, simple as that. Look at how the americans were shitting their pants when north korea wouldn't back down. You all think its so easy to be peaceful and respectful of everyone else; we all know where your belief's would be in a war-type situation. As for calling war, murder; well think what you like, but just remember your calling your grandparents murderer's along with the rest of our past generations that fought so fucking hard and lost more than we/YOU could ever imagine; just so you could call them murderer's. That's exactly what our parents/forefathers/past generations really fought for, and want you to remember their loss and our gains that way. - Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:00pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | Yes, really. Aiden. Name me one other struggle when millions upon tens of millions died, not only in battle, but in extermination camps, in slavery, and in basic ethnic cleansing. - Wed, 14 Nov 2007 1:57pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | i didnt read the whole thread but it's pretty naive to think that if we as a country decided to destroy all of our weapons and be peacefull, no1 would invade us. giving thanks to people who faught for us isnt supporting war.... - Wed, 14 Nov 2007 4:25pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | trev there were tons of times in history that were comparable. probably not as systematic, but just as evil that;'s for sure. stalin, the spanish in the americas us in north america (natives). the idea of just "getting rid of them" was nothing new. The world is a fucked up place. im not downplaying the hollocaust at all but i think due to the current state of the media and wealth in the world, the crimes of germany as a whole have been magnified. ,Actualy, not magnified. That isnt what i mean. Rather the crimes of other dictators and countries downplayed and as you're saying, held to a lower scale of evil. - Wed, 14 Nov 2007 4:27pm Edited: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 4:40pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | I agree. I guess what I'm talking about is the sheer volume. - Wed, 14 Nov 2007 4:42pm | ||
| Aidan Logins User Info... | There were a few others for sheer volume, I'm gonna wash my hands clean of this thread after this post though so I don't want to get into anything. I will mention the witch hunts though, because that's something I'm interested in tonight. It was all innocent people who were killed (as we know most weren't witches, and ones that were... so what right) And those killings were a lot more than in world war 2 (they went on for nearly 300 years before the churches changed their minds...) And there was no clear good and evil. A man could get his neighbours killed for no reason without warning; this happened frequently. For 300 years most of Europe lived in fear that someone would arbitrarily decide to try them as witches. (they were severely tortured for hours- sometimes days- before they were killed as well.) That's it for me. - Wed, 14 Nov 2007 4:50pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | lest we also forget the "ethnic cleansing" that STILL happens in parts of Africa. Or ww1, the massacre of the armenians. I agree on your opinion of WW2 andrew and completely agree with those in support of rememberance day. I just wish people who see rememberance day as a day to remember the wars past; could see it for the people that sacrificed their lives so the world could be different in all four corners of the globe and we can talk like this on the 'net. ps, if you dont like it... I'LL TASE YA! lol - Wed, 14 Nov 2007 4:53pm | ||
| Aidan Logins User Info... | And also AIDS. When you say "struggle between good and evil," most people say "yeah but AIDS is a disease, so it can't be evil." Well it isn't. The evil is the political powers that keep it happening. There is more than enough medicine to rid the world of AIDS right now. So millions continue to die and spread the disease, solely because of greed for money and power. NOW I'm done for sure. - Wed, 14 Nov 2007 4:53pm | ||
| The Other Nick User Info... | i cant stop posting in this thread... Question: "Name me one other struggle when millions upon tens of millions died, not only in battle, but in extermination camps, in slavery, and in basic ethnic cleansing" Answer: THE TOTALITY OF HUMAN HISTORY..until the end of days. War and enslavement are continual. WWII is not really unique in that sense at all, it is just another spike in the death-rate timeline of human history. "You really have no idea how much you take your freedom and security for granted do you Aidan? Maybe it's because you're young, or maybe because you're blissfully ignorant. Either way, we all still, in my opinion, owe respect to those men who gave their lives in WWI and WWII so you could enjoy your freedom today." A response: Freedom is subjective. If i want to go out and gun down a town/village and cut off the limbs of any survivors here in canada...i can't. But if i lived in a war-torn impovershed country in say..africa...i could start a genocide movement and be well on my way. In this scenario there is more freedom in the fucked up country than the rich country. Freedom depends on what you want. There is a better average of freedom in Canada than say Darfur in which there are only a few free and many enslaved. ...so i believe - Wed, 14 Nov 2007 5:29pm | ||
| kay User Info... | yeah but...if we got nuked, then there'd be no one left to go fight em? There'd be no war to fight really. And, I poined out that vets DO certainly deserve to be thanked, maybe not for protecting our personal freedoms but for saving the lives of millions, globally. As I was writing the comparison in professions, I was actually trying to figure out how bakers could get into life-threatening situations...it was like a blooper reel from the 3 stooges running in my head. So baker wasn't the best profession to pick. The whole furor and uproar about it is what bothers me really, all the hypocrites, anti-war and pro-war riff-raff coming out and voicing opinions that have been heard over and over. Geez. Invite grandpapi over to dinner, give to the war vetrans, just don't try and make you personal beliefs someone elses, it's a never ending arguement, focussing on war...why not focus it on peace, which I think everyone can agree with? - Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:57pm | ||
| trevor corey User Info... | thata girl. Now you're cooking with Crisco! - Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:56am | ||
| JDL User Info... | is it kinda like the taser arguement then kay? one's belief's arent the same as the next; so let it be? heheh(that was for you trev) - Thu, 15 Nov 2007 2:26pm | ||
| kay User Info... | I'm not even going to TOUCH that argument! Maybe crisco grease fires are life threatening to bakers? - Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:57pm | ||
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