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924 Gilman Street...CBGBs...Vancouver Island
| Message Board > Seeking Shows > 924 Gilman Street...CBGBs...Vancouver Island |
| RoseisCool User Info... | I apologize if this isn't classified in the correct forum but I have been quite curious what local bands and musicians think of the idea of having an all ages club that all alternative bands can play. A fee would be charged to the attendees like any of those famous clubs that produced the likes of The Ramones or Rancid and percentage of the profits could be paid out to musicians. The island has a wealth of you guys wanting to build up your underground rapport, why not have a club specifically for like-minded freaks? - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 3:04am | ||
| DTjackson User Info... | This is exactly what the island needs. Victoria is growing. Victoria is becoming less of a hole in the ground and there are tons of great bands around. For alternative bands we are usually forced to rent out a venue and see if it flies. If this club got a reputation as constantly putting on good shows then this could be a cool spot for everyone to hang out and catch a band together. - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 1:07pm | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | If enough people show interest I will definitely make a suggestion about this to a business investor I am related to. I would love the music scene to have a happening, right now it is a rough gig. ;) - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 3:28pm | ||
| tyler User Info... | good idea but the possibility of it working are like...small in my opinion...cbgbs and gilman were punk venues if this was an alt rock venue that would destroy most of the punk bands chances of playing( im only assuming this cause most of the young punk bands are hated by everyone(well most everyone) on livevictoria).WE JUST WANNA PLAY TOO GUYS - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 4:22pm | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | Alternative, I meant all genres that fall into that category. Punk/Metal/Grunge whatever. It really wasn't about who here hates punk it was about who supports the idea. Oh yes and both those venues are still in existence. - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 4:47pm Edited: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 4:52pm | ||
| DTjackson User Info... | Why can't it just be a rock/punk/metal fusion? It doesn't have to just be this ONE thing. I say bring the rock. Bring the punk. Bring the metal. Hell, have certain days be something else. So if you go on, say, a friday there'll be a punk show. Saturday a rock show. Sunday....errr, black sabbath = metal. Just a thought. Equal representation. - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 4:55pm | ||
| darcy User Info... | Has anyone here read the book 924 Gilman? I only ask because it pretty much goes step by step unto how they got that place running. I can probably scan in on my comp and then host it for anyone who wants to looksy. - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 5:13pm | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | Great idea DTjackson. Places like Gilman don't only use their facilities for music but also for community theatre. Having a variety would be essential I think. Thanks Darcy, that'd be great. - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 5:22pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | that is the best idea i have ever heard in my whole fucking life......... DO IT!! - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 5:33pm Edited: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 5:33pm | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | It is indeed the best ever idea ever invented. - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 5:38pm | ||
| Bryan User Info... | This needs to happen. rly - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 6:11pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | everyone who would support this place reply..... - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 8:24pm | ||
| darcy User Info... | I would support it. have a basic knowledge of what has to happen to create a building, or venue, but not the tools. I could for sure donate lots of computer hardware and software towards a building like that. You know, a comp that can be used to actually keep stuff organized....and fight for the horde. In another thread with the same title I believe the building that used to house Soundgarden is availible, possibly. I also think it would have to be used for more than just music. Gilman has been used as a daycare, to host AA meetings, art workshops,ect ect. perhaps during the week(s) when a show would not draw very much, you could book it just like any other place, then maybe weekends, or other days too, it could be used for bands/perfomance use. That's just one half of an idea. Haha, I'm very up to this so I'm sure I could make tons of Quexiotic (wow...never thought I would use that...typo) claims about what could happen there. - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 8:31pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | hells yeeeeee as long as its a place were all agers can go on im all for it ummm andrew gave me the link for this so i could post this is jeff yeah - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 8:37pm Edited: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 8:39pm | ||
| jeff User Info... | hells yeeeeee as long as its a place were all agers can go on im all for it - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 8:40pm | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | During the weekdays and on weekends when there are performances the venue would be used as coffee hang out. Thank you for your generosity Darcy. - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 8:42pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | so are you actualy going to do this? - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 9:10pm | ||
| darcy User Info... | I think it's more of a we. And really, we don't even know where it would be yet. baby steps. First we have to find a place, then get A LOT of cash to buy it, or at least rent it. Maybe once that's gone through there can be more. - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 9:50pm | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | No, not persay. I just want to know how many people support the idea to make it worth while. I might be able to get funding if I can prove there is enough interest. - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 9:56pm | ||
| darcy User Info... | Oh, well then, I'd be interested. And, again, willing to donate some computer stuff, and probably some chairs and stuff aswell. Now if only I knew some construction workers....note to self. - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 9:58pm | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | The venue would almost surely have to be a sturdy rental. The support of individuals like yourself Darcy -- if this plan does come into effect -- would be most appreciated. - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:11pm | ||
| darcy User Info... | Would it work sort of like at Gilman where during the week it's rented out like a normal hall (but pretty darn' cheap) and then bands and other performances do a split of cash for them and then cash for the venue? - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:14pm | ||
| DTjackson User Info... | Remember in Victoria when they made that teen night club? That was a fucking stupid idea. This right here, though, is a good idea and I hope everyone that replies to this thread will support it when it's in motion. This will be a music venue/place for people with the same kinda taste hangout with friends or meet new people. I think this place could really nail the weekends. I mean...let's face it, school sucks but you gotta go but there will always be bands that want to be exposed so for this place to expose new bands, maybe, on week days and more established acts on weekends. How about that? I'm really excited about this. - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:45pm | ||
| Brian VIHC User Info... | I'd love to see this happen, though I suspect the insurance costs would be rather high and it would have to jump through a LOT of municipal hoops, not to mention dealing with SOCAN fees, taxes, etc... Unless it were underground. Heh. - Wed, 28 Feb 2007 11:50pm | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | Well inevitably there are going to be extra costs and expenses attached to opening and operating such a venue. There would be a cover charge to get in as expected and as this would not only be a cool place to go with friends it is also a business that would serve food and beverage at a cost whilst helping to give bands exposure. Thanks for your comment Brian. - Thu, 1 Mar 2007 12:17am | ||
| Laprider User Info... | People have had this ideas for years sadly, with Lease rates, Zoning requirements, Insurance and general High overhead the chances of finding a suitable location within Victoria itself are near nil....not being negative, Just know Its been looked into a lot in the past...Victoria City council is a little backwards when it comes to places like this, you fall under general assembly fire code and all that. Ball Park for rent alone would be over $3000 per month....just my two bits. - Thu, 1 Mar 2007 2:18am | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | I have actually already talked to people about spaces available in downtown Victoria. Yates St. ranges from $35-$45 a square foot and Douglas even double. Victoria is only one suggestion though. There are a variety of places this venue could be if people would be willing to travel the distance. - Thu, 1 Mar 2007 2:49am | ||
| DTjackson User Info... | Awwww, man. I wish this would happen in Victoria though. I swear this scene could take off at any time - Thu, 1 Mar 2007 3:51am | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | Victoria is not exempt from consideration. - Thu, 1 Mar 2007 3:54am | ||
| Brian VIHC User Info... | Forget downtown. Find something in a slightly more outlying area or in an industrial district - cheaper rent, less restrictive noise bylaws, no angry neighbours... - Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:19am | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | When these areas of downtown Victoria were checked out, it wasn't actually a music venue that was being put into consideration. What suburb would you guys suggest...Fernwood, Esquimalt...etc? - Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:24am | ||
| Andrew User Info... | vic west would work...but right in the middle of esquimalt would be pretty fucked up...but yea fucked up could work better than nothing and its just one bus from downtown. There are a lot of industrial buildings in vic west adn esq that could work i think? id expect fairly low cost too. - Thu, 1 Mar 2007 4:54pm | ||
| darcy User Info... | There is a building that isn't being used sort of outside downtown, but still right by. It's like, right by the DQ and stuff, sort of near the Fifty-fifty. - Thu, 1 Mar 2007 5:32pm | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | I'll check out the particulars on a few places. - Thu, 1 Mar 2007 7:59pm Edited: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 8:21pm | ||
| tobaccoian User Info... | you could allways get partial liquor licences too to bring in more of a crowd, by that i mean wristbands for non minors. - Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:54am | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | If a liquor license was in place, people of age would simply have to purchase food (at reasonable cost) in order to drink. That's what would make it legal for adolescents to attend the venue. Though having liquor on the premises will make insurance costs heftier, so this has to be taken into consideration of whether or not having alcohol would be worth while to the venue. - Fri, 2 Mar 2007 4:46pm Edited: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 4:47pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | i think it would be depending on the act...............so you'd have to have a lot of older acts with fans inthe 19+ range... - Sat, 3 Mar 2007 2:47am Edited: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 2:47am | ||
| Landjaeger User Info... |  | ||
| Dave Slaughter User Info... | hey darcy, id like to read that book a lot. if you scan it, and you could post/email it, twould be much appreciated. - Sat, 3 Mar 2007 1:02pm | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | Yes, with a liquor license, insurance costs would skyrocket. So if it were under my sole decision, there would be no alcohol on the premises. But their would be strict rules at the venue, membership cards would be issued, a copy of members' identification would be taken and printed and all would have to sign some sort of agreement: no drugs, no alcohol and no violence. That would apply to bands as well. What people do away from the venue before and after is their own business. Break the rules, automatically banned. No waver. - Sat, 3 Mar 2007 4:02pm | ||
| dAnnyp. User Info... | I think this is a great idea.. Minus the No Beers part of it. We should set up Bingo games on sundays. Word. - Sun, 4 Mar 2007 10:40pm | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | I went and sought out a few places today. There is a space underneath the Carlton Club in Esquimalt that is vacant, but it needs a lot of work. I also found a vacant building on Pembroke St. but I didn't see any For Lease signs etc. So for that one, I might have to contact a realtor. As well, there are two seperate spaces side by side available right on Douglas St in the downtown. They are in a great high traffic area, set up for serving food and probably about the size to accomodate such a venue. dAnnyp. the venue would probably start alcohol-free and if enough people wanted it in there it's something that could be discussed. Bingo sounds fun! Heh. - Sun, 4 Mar 2007 10:50pm | ||
| Brayden User Info... | Thats an incredible idea...I personally would help with any renos or shit like that that would need to be done and I can probably say the same for the rest of my band... - Mon, 5 Mar 2007 11:24am | ||
| Ados User Info... | I think this is a great idea as well and fully support you. Good luck! - Mon, 5 Mar 2007 12:21pm | ||
| darcy User Info... | Looking good! I would try for that Douglas Street idea. It sounds like it's got the "skeleton" for what you are looking for, there are two side by side, and it seems like it would be fairly CENTRAL for anyone. - Mon, 5 Mar 2007 12:55pm | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | That's one of the things I am taking into consideration. It should definitely be one bus ride away for everyone in the city. Not to go unmentioned, the location would draw in a lot of people off the street which a little independent venue like this needs. - Mon, 5 Mar 2007 5:44pm | ||
| Brad Cranwell User Info... | This would be the best thing in the world. We have a big venue for big acts who want to come to town. We have small venues for our local acts, but what about thoes bands people want to see but are to big for venues like Legends and VEC but to small for the SOFMC. This is a kick ass idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Tue, 6 Mar 2007 8:02am | ||
| Brad Cranwell User Info... | okay i need to back this idea up again. The music scene in Victoria is booming. With punk/ska acts like The Toasters comming in Feb 06, and now The Bouncing Souls/Strike Anywhere, Social Distortion, This Is My Fist and so many more just lingering around, and Rise Against comming back to play this July. They have all been at diffrent venues. We need an all ages venue with beer garden, that will put Victoria on the map that tour bookers look at, not the one with out VI but the one map that had VI printed on it just so they could show Victoria - Tue, 13 Mar 2007 6:11pm | ||
| Tom H User Info... | Roseiscool, I think this is a fantastic idea. Most every band starting out knows all too well how difficult it is to get shows. A venue that is willing to host lesser-known bands on weekdays and shows with bigger headliners on weekends would be invaluable to bands, and, if marketed right, would be good for the whole community. As someone said, the Victoria music scene is pretty damn good, and a place like this would take off with the bands I'm sure. If this gets off the ground there will be a lot of happy musicians around. - Tue, 13 Mar 2007 6:30pm | ||
| jordan F. User Info... | i back this idea fully. I am willing to help out so e-mail me at [email protected] and i will try my best to help out in anyway i can. And i love the coffee shop idea. this needs to happen! - Wed, 21 Mar 2007 10:08pm | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | I am going to see if I can contact someone at 924 Gilman like someone said earlier. Thanks for your supportive words guys and if I need any help which I will if these idea goes anywhere I will definitely be in touch. Thanks! Rose - Thu, 22 Mar 2007 9:47pm | ||
| DTjackson User Info... | No, thank you :) - Fri, 23 Mar 2007 4:51pm | ||
| Landjaeger User Info... | Get with the fucking program. Live in the now. - Fri, 23 Mar 2007 6:05pm | ||
| Kyle User Info... | this would rule, best idea ever. Ill help any way i can - Wed, 2 May 2007 5:40pm | ||
| jeff User Info... | its funny cause this will never happen - Wed, 2 May 2007 7:18pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | agreed - Wed, 2 May 2007 10:45pm | ||
| BladeofGrass User Info... | hey i think this is a great idea..definitely for bands just starting out that need to build a following...my band and I are willing to help in any way we can - Thu, 3 May 2007 10:23am | ||
| BladeofGrass User Info... | talked to some other bands, they like the idea too man, DO IT jeff you dont know what you are talking about it will if enough people support it - Thu, 3 May 2007 12:52pm Edited: Thu, 3 May 2007 12:52pm | ||
| jeff User Info... | its a good dream but if it happens ill be very VERY surprised....or it will turn into a bar - Thu, 3 May 2007 1:22pm | ||
| Landjaeger User Info... | Notice the person who started this thread hasn't posted in almost 2 months? I'm with you Jeff. Get with the fucking program. Live in the now. - Thu, 3 May 2007 10:49pm Edited: Thu, 3 May 2007 10:50pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | yup - Fri, 4 May 2007 5:26pm | ||
| Fableway User Info... | This would be a great idea. Now add, "Featuring Fableway every third thursday" to it and I'm sooo game. - Sat, 5 May 2007 12:51pm | ||
| bXc User Info... | i dont think this is going to go over anymore - Sun, 6 May 2007 5:38pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | what a tease - Mon, 7 May 2007 1:26am | ||
| BladeofGrass User Info... | whats the news on this? better not have ditched the idea, it kicks ass, will help alot of people. if she has ditched the idea someone should pick up on it. only other place around here i know about that is like this is the duncan garage, good all ages venue for musicians, my band and i play there all the time. but one in victoria would work better, because there isnt alot of people in duncan. but if you are a band starting out and needing a place to play, definatly check the garage out if you are willing to travel down here, http://www.duncangarageshowroom.ca and tell long john blade of grass sent ya ;) - Wed, 23 May 2007 4:49pm Edited: Wed, 23 May 2007 4:50pm | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | Hey guys, I apologize for not posting in some time. This idea is still heavily being thought out and we are trying to put something in the works right now. Realtors and stuff are so slow though unfortunately. I'm glad everyone is so interested and feel free to send your ideas/suggestions to me at this email: [email protected] Thanks! - Thu, 7 Jun 2007 3:12pm | ||
| bXc User Info... | yeah this isnt going to work... I contacted the COV directly to A-Lowe and he was like yeah umm great idea but no - Sat, 9 Jun 2007 9:08pm | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | I'm not sure what you approached the mayor with, but Alan Lowe and the city will permit what we're thinking of and I know this because the place we are looking at actually already has music. We just want to make it more appealing to a younger and more diverse crowd because right now it is more geared up for middle aged to senior. - Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:19am Edited: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:22am | ||
| Brett F User Info... | aweosme thoughts im down - Fri, 15 Jun 2007 3:56pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | could there be shows from like 6-1/12 on weekends. punk? - Sat, 16 Jun 2007 4:04pm | ||
| jordan F. User Info... | people are opening a new venue in tacoma (USA) and to raise money they had a ebay auction where anybody who had "stuff" they were willing to put up would. All the money went to the venue. So if this actualy gets going thats an idea... - Mon, 25 Jun 2007 3:38pm | ||
| MichaelMotorcycle User Info... | This is a sweet idea. Yes I know there would be tons of obstacles to overcome (many of the obstacles being pessimistic naysayers). But with enough drive, not only could this work it could be a really original idea that could cause big waves. You're treading the same ground as Hilly Kristal at CBGB did for sure. If you need any help, I'm up to the challenge. Mike of Submecca - Tue, 10 Jul 2007 3:28pm | ||
| ::Saint:: User Info... | My band would definately be interested in being a part of this. To add a little incentive for bands and musicians to help out in getting this off the ground, you could establish some sort of a preferred artist where all the musicians or performers who help out (either by helping work on it or donating money, time, etc) would get preferential placement on the show rotation (to a reasonable extent, of course). Basically like if you wanted to play there, and were on the list, you could call up and say "Hey, when's the next date we could get headline show in there?" and would automatically be put on the schedule at the next available date .. ?? I'm sure this would motivate a lot of people to pitch in! - Tue, 10 Jul 2007 4:52pm | ||
| BladeofGrass User Info... | an idea for raising money would be where all the bands who were up for it playing in a show where the proceeds went to this venue. it would also be good publicity. if you could find a place that wouldnt charge you 200 bucks a night. my band would definatly participate, and im sure the others would too. - Sun, 22 Jul 2007 12:09pm | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | This is so close to being confirmed, though it hasn't, but I'm going to say it...Fernwood Village. - Tue, 7 Aug 2007 5:28am | ||
| darcy User Info... | Wicked! Seems like a good location. It's easy enough to get to for most people, and the 'hood has tons of arts already in it to draw from. - Tue, 7 Aug 2007 10:59am | ||
| Andrew User Info... | give me a shout if u need sponsors or donations or somethin i think my boss would do it - Wed, 15 Aug 2007 4:21pm | ||
| darcy User Info... | Give me a shout if you need....things engraved.....riiiight. and computers! - Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:33am | ||
| RoseisCool User Info... | Thanks guys, I'll let you know. Right now though, I just need a really good name. It has to be Fernwood-sy since I am compromising with others. Oh yes, and just so I establish this, the 'venue' is in fact a licensed restaurant -- draft, bottled beer as well as specialized drinks. Meaning you can drink if you're over 19 and if you're a minor, you're welcome too (certain hours, I have to ask someone about this.) We'll be serving lots of good food as well: pizza, salads, hamburgers, gourmet, vegan options and vegetarian. I would like to see what this cool space could eventually turn into with the support of musicians. We're taking over on the 23rd of August and then we have quick renovations. I'd like to see a stage built as well, so things are slowly getting there and if all goes well, I hope we can have some musicians in in the next few weeks. - Sat, 18 Aug 2007 4:04am | ||
| MichaelMotorcycle User Info... | How about calling it "The Venue" Mike of Submecca - Sat, 18 Aug 2007 10:23pm | ||
| Reece oi User Info... | wait where is it is it a secret? - Wed, 22 Aug 2007 7:10pm | ||
| Tyler User Info... | rose, here are some of my thoughts. as an all ages promoter, the usual troubles are getting enough people to come to a show (location/promotion) to cover the venue costs (money). the closer to the downtown core is, the more kids come out. the cheaper the venue is, more money can be spent on printing and distributing posters and other such advertising. the cheaper the venue is, the easier it is to meet the rental/promotion/etc costs, and the easier it is to break even. as it stands, with the current venues in town, most all ages shows can need 40-100 people to break even (ranging from a small 65-max person venue to community halls to more expensive places like the vic event center), depending on where the event is held. I'm hoping this place will be able to hold all ages shows without making the promoter take a huge cost risk. if the venue manager doesn't get greedy, they could charge something that leaves the total costs around $250 to the promoter. I'm just hoping you guys don't put on all the shows yourselves (would leave a lot of bands without shows) and make sure that all legal and security standards are in order (so the venue doesn't get in legal trouble, as has been the case with shows put on by younger punks). - Thu, 23 Aug 2007 1:37am | ||
| darcy User Info... | ...You haven't read a single thing that she's written... "Oh yes, and just so I establish this, the 'venue' is in fact a licensed restaurant -- draft, bottled beer as well as specialized drinks. Meaning you can drink if you're over 19 and if you're a minor, you're welcome too (certain hours, I have to ask someone about this.) We'll be serving lots of good food as well: pizza, salads, hamburgers, gourmet, vegan options and vegetarian." Pretty sure music and related things will be it's secondary income. - Thu, 23 Aug 2007 9:26am | ||
| Andrew User Info... | Tyler maybe you should just start putting on bigger shows with less of the same 5 bands every single show (maybe throw in one or two of the local kids bands per show) and get more than one different band for each one. It would definately attract a lot more people and the one or two of our bands (am i allowed to say our?:P) would get a shitload of exposure to people that arent the same 14 kids that come to all the shows we put on..while having 1-3 bigger bands that may want to get paid, but draw a lot of money. Might even get to the point of having decent p.a.s and lighting or something. just a thought tho thats what iv been pondering about lately. I think though that u guys will say u want to keep it as it is with just your scene and fuck everyone else like it's been so far because for some reason there's always somethign to not like about "them" :P anywyas...i hope i wasnt too offensive..i tend to run my mouth a lot..but yea. u know i love you - Fri, 24 Aug 2007 4:08pm | ||
| darcy User Info... | Wrong Tyler... - Sat, 25 Aug 2007 9:50am | ||
| Andrew User Info... | oh damnit. nevermind then - Sat, 25 Aug 2007 1:38pm | ||
| Reece oi User Info... | sweet a stage - Tue, 28 Aug 2007 1:36pm | ||
| Kyle User Info... | holy christ its happening? this is sick shit. a stage...wow - Fri, 7 Sep 2007 5:14pm | ||
| Cameron User Info... | this is what i've been trying to do for the past coupple years. I run a resturant now on a golf course but i've been wanting to open up a lounge with live music all the time and sell local music shwag at no coast. if you need someone to run the damn thing let me know. i;ve been a promoter for two years and am a cook and have my own resturant so i think i could run a all ages club quite easily. email me if your at all intrested in that. [email protected] - Sat, 8 Sep 2007 12:47pm | ||
| Andrew User Info... | Sounds like it is Kylie!! - Sat, 8 Sep 2007 6:15pm | ||
| BladeofGrass User Info... | hey, we definatly want to be on the bill as soon as possible, this kicks ass FINALLY SOMEWHERE COOL TO PLAY - Tue, 11 Sep 2007 1:01pm | ||
| Mitch User Info... | Has this thing completely fallen through? Or is it still happening? - Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:02pm | ||
| KOHURSHUHN User Info... |  WE WANT TO PLAY!!!!!!! - Mon, 14 Jan 2008 9:06pm | ||
| jordan f. User Info... | please update us. Also Vile Style would probably be down to play. If your going for a more "hip" look, i'd sugest getting in contact with some of the local "artists". Maybe get some writters to do graffiti on the walls (good wild style type stuff). - Wed, 16 Jan 2008 2:30pm | ||
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