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Rally against cities antiposter crackdown?
| Message Board > General Chitchat > Rally against cities antiposter crackdown? |
| Voices | Can anyone think of a way the musicians and fans of music in this city can vote a mass opinion towards the city and their discriminatory actions against postering telephone poles in this city? Are they going to fine people for garage sale signs too? This is BS, the posters dont look that bad, I mean compared to a creosote caked log sticking out of the ground. I think that any move to really crack down on postering in this city will affect the local scene in a very bad way. Opinions? Ideas? - Fri, 17 Jan 2003 2:50pm | ||
| Anonymous | better not fuck with garage sales, i found a lot of gear at garage sales. - Fri, 17 Jan 2003 2:58pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | I would vote for or sign any petition against banning posters. They pay the city chumps to go out every so often and clean them up anyway, why not just clean off the expired ones? And that old man bastard in Quadra/Hillside/Fernwood and that other fuckhead in the Reynolds area...if I ever see them ripping one of my posters down...well, you can imagine the wrath! - Fri, 17 Jan 2003 4:26pm | ||
| FANG | they should do it vancouver style with designated walls throughout the city for posters... like that big plywood space next to where lyles place used to be... - Fri, 17 Jan 2003 4:33pm | ||
| ho hum | Ya, people that take down posters are idiots. Every neighbourhood seems to to have a few of these misguided vigilantes. - Fri, 17 Jan 2003 4:35pm | ||
| Anonymous | "why not just clean off the expired ones?" why wouldn't you take down your own expired posters yourself? - Fri, 17 Jan 2003 5:27pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | When I go and poster (I always do the same areas), I do take the old ones down, smart guy. I even take down expired posters from other bands. Are you the fuckhead who rips them down? - Fri, 17 Jan 2003 5:35pm | ||
| ML7Mike | I do the same. - Fri, 17 Jan 2003 5:39pm | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | you don't need to take 'em down because the city does that every sunday morning at exactly the same time. also, the average time a poster is actually visible in the day during the week is less than 2 hours (on those poles downtown), so taking them down is only gonna cause a scrap. I've almost started a few myself. the only real way is to put them up every 2 days (or 1 if youhave time) and hope for the best. there's a lot of shit that gets on there. - Fri, 17 Jan 2003 5:48pm | ||
| helonwheels User Info... | Hmmmm hard, heavy and tidy. Nice. - Fri, 17 Jan 2003 5:49pm | ||
| ML7Mike | I was talking more about Saanich.. They stay up here for 6 months if ya dont go by and pull em down, and if there is no wind/rain storms. - Fri, 17 Jan 2003 5:55pm | ||
| matt t User Info... | I got in a fight with some old dude around the 600 block of esquimalt a few days ago. He was ripping all the posters down and swearing to himself and I was like what the fuck you doing dude? He said he hates all posters that arent his eye level, and if he has to look up they shouldnt be there. I have seen him all the time walking around ripping posters down, fucking crazy old man. - Fri, 17 Jan 2003 6:01pm | ||
| Chris Logan User Info... | It might be worthwhile to bring the thing up at city council--not that anything would change right away, but at least the word would get out. The way posters are run now in this city is just a huge waste of time. - Fri, 17 Jan 2003 6:44pm | ||
| Anonymous | I totally agree. Where I'm from the bars and promoters have a deal with each other - everyone has their spaces and no one infringes. There is no poster war (although I remember a time when it was similar to here and it totally sucked) I actually talked to the city about it recently and they just said it's our problem not theirs and if we break the rules they are going to charge us $100 PER POSTER!!!! to remove them. Suggestions are that all the bars and promoters get together to make a schedule or a grid or what have you so that everyone's posters can be put up and seen. (The city would probably even let us have a bulletin board if we took care of it). I think what's going on now is disgusting, harmful, useless, expensive and frustrating. We are guilty of it too because we have to compete somehow but I would much rather not kill so many trees, not pay a fortune for each show (and pay the bands more!!!) and know that people were aware of what's going on in town... Anyone want to do anything about this situation? I would be more than happy to host or organize a meeting to help get this resolved. - Fri, 17 Jan 2003 7:14pm | ||
| SoundGarden User Info... | oops that was me - Fri, 17 Jan 2003 7:21pm | ||
| Chris Logan User Info... | I'd attend that meeting. - Fri, 17 Jan 2003 9:03pm | ||
| Anonymous | - - Sat, 18 Jan 2003 1:00pm | ||
| Ty Stranglehold User Info... | Should we start postering for the meeting? - Sat, 18 Jan 2003 7:52pm | ||
| Livevic Scott User Info... | I think forming a grid kinda thing so everyone posters at X times or soemthing could work .. but only if EVERYONE was involved, and it'd be tough getting every independet promoter and bar involved. But its worth a shot. The other thing we should do is talk to the city about getting a few bulleten boards or community message boards put up in high traiffic areas and schools arround the city. Maybe if everyone only put 1 poster instead of 3 on a poll down town we could all actually actually be able to put posters up, that way you could have up to 9 events per poll listed (like in Vancouver). The reason it works in vancouver is there is ONE person who does ALL the postering in the city.. and if you don't go though him, they tear your posters down, however you pay about 50 cents a poster to get them up there. - Sat, 18 Jan 2003 9:57pm | ||
| Anonymous | bands should be able to post.i think it ads character to things.with a tight rope on most things it pisses me off .keep posting.is there going to be fines if they catch you doing posters on poles?!!! tape staple and run!!!:) - Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:17pm | ||
| SoundGarden User Info... | They will fine the VENUE! or the promoters if they can get their hands on them. Think about it - You can't run away from a poster with a promoters name or at least a venue name on it. The city will find someone to hold responsable. - Sun, 19 Jan 2003 12:37am | ||
| Soundgarden User Info... | Scott - every independant promoter is promoting a show in a venue right? (be it a community centre or a bar) so everyone would have allotted spaces to accomodate every place hosting entertainment using posters as a form of advertising. I've talked to a bunch of independant promoters and we are coming up with some wicked ideas. When I was in a band we were told by the venue where we could put up posters and where they would be putting up posters...it wasn't a chaotic free-for-all, everyone got the advertising they deserved and people knew where to look to find out what was going on in each place. the way it is right now, no one gets their show seen unless they have people out on the street like 5 times a day - I've seen people going around after each other postering over brand new posters..now there's money well spent eh? I think there is a better way - there's gotta be! and the bottom line is that if we all decide on a format and follow it- whoever doesn't comply will have their posters taken down (kinda like vancouver but without the added expense or the monopoly) I'm pretty sure we can govern ourselves and make it better for everyone (as an independant promoter you have to admit saving money, time and energy is good all around)Anyway, that's what I think and I think a meeting would be a good brainstorming session and a chance for everyone to get their say in. - Sun, 19 Jan 2003 12:41am | ||
| Anonymous | check this out - article originally came from teh Greater Victoria Chamber of Commerce http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0205.florida.html http://indyweek.com/durham/2002-09-18/cover.html the music scene is understood by some to be an important ingredient in a revitalized and vibrant city core - not just a notion - being written about and discussed - perhaps the case for better public visability of our rich local scene could be made to the other businesses in the dowtown core - just a thought - Sun, 19 Jan 2003 3:48am | ||
| Livevic Scott User Info... | Tamara i'm all up for a meeting and trying to brainstorm just tell me where and i'll try and make it. However your comment that all indepented promoters are working for a venue or center is actaully false. There are MANY promoters in town that do not work specificly with any venue. Myself, Enigmatica Entertainment, Nobel House, Drive Thru, Atomique, and that Matt Laundrie guy who I don't know his promotion Co name. as well as tonns i'm forgetting about, plus all the kids that set up all ages shows and are just in bands etc. It's going to be REALLY tough to keep that many people on a grid. Its also interesting that your spearheading a campaign to try and make postering more fair considering your bar is one of the worst offenders of over postering. 7 times out of ten if one of my posters has been covered up its with one of yours, which could just be coincidence but when I was talking to a by law office last week he listed your club as the worst offender of illigal postering. I'm not saying your in the wrong for wanting to have proper exposure i'm just saying that havn't exactly practiced your preachings at any point in time. As for the stapel and run tactic... all they have to do is show up at the place and time it says on the poster and say "who's on charge" and you have a fine on your hands so even hall shows can be fined. With that all said though .. still tell me a time and a place and like a weeks warning and i'll spread the word to as many people as possible getting as many views as possible - Sun, 19 Jan 2003 3:13pm | ||
| Anonymous | I meant that no matter who you are, as an independent promoter you are PROMOTING a show that will take place AT a venue (not to say that you are working FOR the venue necessarily - hence being independent) Tough to get points across clearly on this thing sometimes.. And yes, like I said initially - we are guilty of it too - in many instances we are brutal with it because we have to work that much harder to get people to know about the bar!!! (places like thursday's and steamers etc..well they already have a built in crowd and they have familiarity on their side but we're the new kids in town -again that isn't to say that we have more or less of a right to get our posters seen!!!!) And though it is not me personally putting up posters, our friends and the bands playing SG go a little overboard with the posters (all with good intention of course) but with a new strategy we would be happy as well. We wouldn't HAVE to fight to get our posters seen (and to be really honest I have asked everyone to cool it with the postering but people aren't listening or there are people I'm not aware of who are postering) I apologize if posters were covered unneccesarily. - Sun, 19 Jan 2003 10:30pm | ||
| Anonymous | and to the anonymous post - thats a really good idea! - Sun, 19 Jan 2003 10:36pm | ||
| Bottomfeeder Music User Info... | As one of those small independant promoters who works with all the bars in town I am all over an organized solution to this problem. A lot of money is being wasted and bad blood is being created between promoters, bands, and the people doing the postering! It seems to me that it is in Victoria�s best interest to help to organize this .....a vibrant music scene is good for tourism and gets lots of press for the city and all of the local operations that support the venues! Follow the money y�all! follow the money...I wonder if Vancouver Island Brewery understands how the city�s crackdown could affect their local beer sales, bar owners communicate with your suppliers and tell them that without their support on this issue you may not be able to continue to buy from them, what about the taxes generated from the venues ? Add it all up and it equals economic power......get local business behind this and government will follow....perhaps the local media should also attend this meeting? Let me know when and I�ll be there! Dean - Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:45pm | ||
| shitondafork | all i can say is..so? City creeps are always assholes towards bands putting up posters. But they are lazy, donut chowing creeps to begin with and if you committed to getting posters out they'll get out. Sure theres the, what, 20 downtown pole things that everyone fights over. but theres also a zillion places all over town. These jerkoffs aren't gonna go to every pole in Greater Victoria every hour on the hour! Now of course I know some locations kick ass over...lets say..lochside and Mt Newton..but there are still lots of other good locations. Plus local businesses (Cambie, Steamers, ect) would jump all over it as that's a main revenue source (or a big one, anyways). - Mon, 20 Jan 2003 3:48am | ||
| alastair // User Info... | Bars should poster downtown and not infront of highschools. - Mon, 20 Jan 2003 4:05am | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | hey shit, a coupl things. first off, it don't matter where you try to "hide" posters, if it's not in the legal place, they show up at the gig that's on the poster and give tickets. It's happened to thursday's at least 3 times, and the pandora as well. You can't really not disclose where the show is on the poster. Second, it'll be a cold day in hell before a bar puts up a poster for another bar. I don't suppose you spend a lot of time putting up posters, so you wouldn't know, so I'll go easy on ya! - Mon, 20 Jan 2003 6:16am | ||
| ML7Mike | Judging from Shitonstickforkfingers comments so far anywhere on this board, I wouldnt listen to much he/she/it has to say. - Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:17pm | ||
| alastair // User Info... | It's weird all this is happening now. Scott and I have been putting up posters for over 3 years now. Sometimes our runs were just ridiculous. We've NEVER had a problem until recently in which the bylaw officer said that a lot of it is due to a certain bar that is excessively postering. - Mon, 20 Jan 2003 2:50pm | ||
| Destr-OiOiOi User Info... | How bout we stretch a banner between Victoria's two tallest buildings that says "Isn't this more obnoxious than a poster?", with the advertisement written below. I think that would get the message across. - Mon, 20 Jan 2003 3:38pm | ||
| malcolm SOS User Info... | This is a very important issue for me, and I agree with some of the points/issues raised by Scott and by Soundgarden. I run SOS Productions (and was also responsible for all Ditch Records Presentations, Chronic Knot Presentations, and Sabat Infoshop related concerts before that). So I have been postering in this city since the mid 90's. That's a lot of posters. I am pretty sick of seeing my hard work removed or covered up (sometimes within minutes!!) I would gladly be involved in some sort of meeting with the various promoters/bars/bands in this city to sort out new strategies. All the city needs to do is make more designated legal poster poles at key spots in the city and I think things would run quite a lot more smoothly for everyone. But it is time we get more organised and speak up about this before more bars and promoters get fined. - Mon, 20 Jan 2003 5:46pm | ||
| Livevic Scott User Info... | Alright so its agreed. A meeting would be a good idea. Now just a where and when? I'd suggest somewhere "Neutral" so we can get more bar owners/managers in on it. And in a couple weeks time so we can get the word out properly. Malcolm? Tamara? Anyone? have a good suggestion? - Mon, 20 Jan 2003 8:42pm | ||
| malcolm SOS User Info... | I guess it depends on how many people will attend this meeting. It seems like there isn't much point in having a meeting unless most of the main people who poster in Victoria can attend. Possibly one of the pubs or bars could be used early in the evening when they are closed or not busy. - Mon, 20 Jan 2003 8:49pm | ||
| Ty Stranglehold User Info... | are we going to poster for it? - Tue, 21 Jan 2003 2:59am | ||
| Japanese Air Force | We poster A LOT for our shows and you're right, it's pretty fucking retarded how fast the shit gets ripped down (lucky bar doorguy, thanks), covered up, or what-have-you. It's unfortunate that this is probably the most direct way for most of us to get the word out to our audience. If we could actually get some organized effort in making this effective for all parties and not get fucked over by the city, I'd be into joining that cause. and we really should find that psycho with the switchblade who walks around Fernwood/cook st and slashes the posters while ranting to himself. He needs a good cockpunch or two. - Tue, 21 Jan 2003 3:16am | ||
| Livevic Scott User Info... | I'd put up an ad on the site in the live music section, and if everyone who's on here made a few calls and sent out some emails we coupld probably get most of the main poster people out? How about a sunday? I think thats probably the least busy day for anyone? Maybe the 2nd of Feb? - Tue, 21 Jan 2003 4:06am | ||
| Chris Logan User Info... | I'm good for February 2. I'd offer our space, too, if we can do it before 3 or after 7. - Tue, 21 Jan 2003 7:24pm | ||
| Anonymous | ... - Tue, 21 Jan 2003 9:04pm | ||
| Anonymous | >>> - Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:34am | ||
| malcolm SOS User Info... | Feb 2nd sounds good to me. If someone wants to decide the time and the place, count me in. Who else is interested in this meeting??? - Wed, 22 Jan 2003 1:08am | ||
| Livevic Scott User Info... | Alright how about 1:00pm at Thursdays? on Febuary 2nd? - Wed, 22 Jan 2003 2:42am | ||
| Chris Logan User Info... | Good with me. If it's cool with other folks, let's do it--send replies here, or to our work address: [email protected]. - Wed, 22 Jan 2003 3:19am | ||
| Soundgarden User Info... | Ok i'm in for 1pm on Feb 2nd too. (sorry got swamped the last couple of days) and HEY! stop pointing the finger at us just cuz ONE city dude has a beef with us at the moment - we get our stuff ripped down too! (and yes that guy with the blade needs to get a life) We ALL have to work T-O-G-E-T-H-E-R to make thiings change. We are more than willing. If you want me to contact people please just let me know. Cheers! - Wed, 22 Jan 2003 1:51pm | ||
| Anonymous | ... - Wed, 22 Jan 2003 6:58pm | ||
| Monica@SoundGarden User Info... | See you all there! - Wed, 22 Jan 2003 8:30pm | ||
| joo | Fuck posters. If they got ridda that shit we wouldn't have to see the ugly fuckers puttin those things up. You fucking ugly bastards. - Wed, 22 Jan 2003 9:57pm | ||
| Another Idea | WHAT IF... there was a small, local business set-up for postering for all events in Victoria and area? The business would be working within the city bylaws with the full knowledge, consent and authority of the Municipal Council.(Then anyone caught TEARING THEM DOWN would be fined!) Everyone could drop off their posters at a central location and the (dependable, non-biased) employees would be responsible for putting them up in the areas designated and taking them down after the event. The bands and/or venues would pay a small (but worthwhile) fee for the work done. They could even offer graphic design and photocopy services to actually make the posters for those who need it. It could be quite a profitable enterprise, because there are far more events in Vic than just the bands playing in bars! It could stop a lot of grief. ANYWAY... IT'S JUST A THOUGHT! - Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:44am | ||
| Soundgarden User Info... | That's a good idea but it doesn't solve the problem of adequate space for everyone to advertise. You'd have to take it one step further and create new spaces for everyone to get seen for reasonable exposure to ensure that events would be successful. Realistically if we all got on the poles it would be overwhelming and it just wouldn't work, the poles have to be supplemented by additional poster-friendly areas. - Thu, 23 Jan 2003 1:52am | ||
| Another Idea | Reply to Soundgarden: This is where the municipality would come in. The tourism and hopitality industry is our bread and butter in Vic. Having a reasonable number of "officially sanctioned & maintained" display boards at various locations throughout Greater Victoria and the Western Communities would likely encourage people to take a good look at what's going on in the entertainment industry - the ENTIRE entertainment industry. As it stands now, the poles look like "vertical recycling dumps" and posters lose their effectiveness when they are all tattered, torn and flapping in the breeze or stuck on with duct tape, etc! If you approach the Municipal council with a strategy, they will probably install these display sites... It's to their huge benefit too - especially if you point out how much money these events bring into the community and how much employment they reinforce. The thousands of tourists that come here all year round want unique experiences that we can offer by the bucket full! But they aren't likely to go "pole hopping" to find out what's going on. Check out the Travel Info Centre across from the Empress. That's a main focal point for tourists to get their "local attractions info" to planwhat they are going to do when they visit. If we could have something like that for the entertainment side of things it would give everyone fair play and opportunity in a more organized, less messy way. I think the venues should SERIOUSLY consider this. Yes... the bands could pay for the posters to be made... but the venues have a CONSIDERABLE INVESTMENT here too, and perhaps they should be the ones to put their hands in their pockets for these locations. It's a WIN-WIN situation, don't you think? - Thu, 23 Jan 2003 3:14pm | ||
| The Voices.. Just ... ..wont stop | I like what the Pita Pit does, with a section on the wall for each club. This idea, on a larger scale would work. First of all the poles need to be longer. We need MORE ROOM on each pole to put posters. Perhaps make them wider too. Then alot a space on each pole for each club in town that needs to advert events. There are a specific number of club licences handed out by the city each year, so this shouldnt be too difficult, perhaps each club being identified by a #. Rotate the spot on the poles so that one club isnt on the same spot on every pole, but random spots. Have approx 5-6 extra slots available for non club events, all ages, or private events. Perhaps the city may want to sell spots on poles.. a paltry $5-$10 per event, or a flat rate of say $25 month for established clubs and promoters, would cover the costs of cleaning the poles and maintaining them. Poles should be available at busy intersections, malls, liquor stores, high schools ,popular neighborhoods ( Think Fernwood, Quadra x Caledonia, Fairfield, areas where the do-gooders tear em down now ) etc. throughout the city. A meeting could help to determine proven areas for good exposure ( eg: Quadra x Hillside, ) Saanich should follow suit so as to maintain the consistency. Perhaps Langford/Westshore/Colwood could have strategically placed poles as well. This would work well , rival clubs would no longer have to spend 5 times as much on posters to keep covering eachothers up, mess would be less, and the citizens who despise posters would see an organized city sponsered strategy that benefits all. - Thu, 23 Jan 2003 3:49pm | ||
| Anonymous | they should put the metal things around ALL the intersection poles downtown..not just 1/2 of them. that makes sense to me - Thu, 23 Jan 2003 3:56pm | ||
| Livevic Scott User Info... | Yeah those arn't bad ideas ... come down to the meeting so everyone can hear them not just those that check the board!! Does anyone have the email for Steamers? Noble House promotions? Degree One? Steve Webb? or Anyone involved with Hush? Also if anyone wants a copy of the Email i'm gonna start sending arround as you know someone who would be interested in this let me know and i'll send it to you or to whoever you think would be interested. - Thu, 23 Jan 2003 7:23pm | ||
| Anonymous | ... - Fri, 24 Jan 2003 5:08pm | ||
| bogart | there's some good idea's here, and i belive we're in need of a serious change if we want to make the victoria scene a better scene to be a part of. this issue effects all of us, wether you're an axe toting reeper, dj slut, or a crazy fiddle hippie. just tell me where to sign. - Fri, 24 Jan 2003 6:07pm | ||
| SoundGarden User Info... | To 'Another Idea' You are absolutely right. I went to talk to the city yesterday and besides offering different solutions they said that they are willing to help out if we come up with a strategy and the majority of us want to implement it. Yes they WILL add more cylinders if we promise to use them properly, yes boards are a realistic possibilty. Somehow I don't see them making poles wider per se but making more of them useful is a definite possibility. Scott, I will email you contact info - or send me that email again (and spell check it dude!) and I will forward it, I had to clear out my box it was all messed up. I for one am looking forward to this meeting and making things different..this whole thing frustrates all of us for no good reason. - Fri, 24 Jan 2003 6:30pm | ||
| Another Idea | Hey Soundgarden! Glad to see the way things are coming together! Here's another thought: There are several local merchants who would really benefit from these display boards being set-up near their locations. Some already have the client base you are trying to reach, i.e. A&B Sound, L&McQ, etc. But other businesses could see results from the potential customers these boards could attract... How about a display board in the centre of Mayfair Mall (and the other malls) for instance? If you approach some of these businesses with the positive influence this could have on them, perhaps they could be brought online as well. Especially if you mention that you have backing from the Municipality. Then the costs would be spread out and the whole project would become more financially feasible. Once the boards are established, it will catch on and people will automatically go there to find out what's happening, just the way they go to channel 10 or the TV Guide to find out what's on TV. Much better than the hit and miss of poles vandalized and scattered all over the place. Although this whole thing started with bands getting pissed cause they couldn't keep their posters on the poles... it could evolve into something far more positive in so many aspects...IF everyone works together! Wishing everyone the very best at the meeting. Hope someone posts a message about the results. AND I'm sure there will be some good ones if everyone takes time to respectfully listen to each other and do it right! PS: Sorry if I sound like a Mom... it's 'cause I am! - Sat, 25 Jan 2003 12:34pm | ||
| ENIGMATICA ENTERTAINMENT User Info... | I think we need to have more poster poles in populated areas around town - not just in the Downtown Core. The poster poles need to be thicker (like in Vancouver). Areas such as Quadra and Bay, Bay and Douglas, Quadra and Hillside, Cook and Bay, Fernwood Rd. More poster poles in all populated areas of the City of Victoria, Saanich and other municipalities are needed. The amount of poster poles available versus the ratio of events and messages given Greater Victoria's population (350,000 some odd) is unreasonable. The attitude given from those in charge of such matters that things are just "our problem" sounds problematic to me. Those same people that are saying that don't realize or may forget the methods of advertising used for urban music and their clientele. I believe deep down inside those same people like the fact the events bring vitality and economic growth to the City. If those bars and events were absent they may not have the same attitude. Those venues pay property taxes too. In addition those bars that cater to youth and younger adults today will be the older people of tomorrow. They should worry about the amount of things the City has to offer to keep them here. The majority of independent promoters do not have the money to purchase paid advertising in the Monday Magazine (or a paper like Offbeat although it is no longer available). Also, urban music clientele don't always read such publications. Those are some of the reasons why I object to the comment. Festivals like Jazz Fest and Blues Bash target a clientele that read the major local publications. Therefore it is not as much an issue for them;however, from time to time organizations like the Jazz Society poster aggressively for some of their shows also (i.e Metalwood @ Steamers and Los Mocosos @ Legends last year). In fact they hire the same people that poster for punk shows and house music shows at bars and halls. Although I am saying this there are some things we can do to make things easier. 1)We could cut down the amount of posters affixed to each pole. We could also consider moving towards affixing a maximum of 2 (11' 17) instead of three or more per event - what some promoters and organizers do. Making posters a smaller size 8' 14 and also making horizontal (11' 17) posters helps a lot while still being fairly effective with getting the word out. Advertising of web-sites (like Livevictoria.com and Invisble Airplane.com and BrandXMedia.org) where people can see what is happening is also a good idea. Advertising of radio shows on CFUV 101.9FM that often promote live events in most of the genres in Victoria seems to make sense. Promoters and organizers of events can consider using more e-mail lists, small flyers, colour posters inside stores (provided local businesses are supportive) and word of mouth is another suggestion. This issue is even more important to take a closer look at especially since groups will have even less resources to get the word out about event as Offbeat Magazine is now shut down until further notice. I was told the magazine was continually losing money so the future of the magazine is under review. I would be interested in attending a meeting to brainstorm methods that could be used to make this postering issue easier for everyone. Provided I don't have a soccer game I'll attend on February 2, 2003. Cheers - Sat, 25 Jan 2003 8:51pm | ||
| Another Idea | I agree about the size of posters being 8-1/2 x 11 rather than 11 x 17! Merchants are far more likely to to stick them up in their store windows at that size. Think about it... no store front businesses want their window space covered with large posters that have nothing to do with their business. They are much more accommodating when the poster is smaller. I'm a graphic designer and have done hundreds of posters for all kinds events over the years and I always advise clients to go with 8-1/2 x 11 posters. Done properly, you can get all the information plus photos, graphics, logos etc. on the page. They are more "user friendly" and they COST FAR LESS to produce... especially if you are going with full colour copies, which really attracts attention! In this case... bigger isn't always better!!! - Sun, 26 Jan 2003 1:46pm | ||
| Anonymous | But, In Victoria having large postersmeans cars driving by can see the info. I laugh at the bands that have a huge poster, with a tiny inneligable font tho.. - Sun, 26 Jan 2003 2:08pm | ||
| Anonymous | Anymore input? Anyone going to the meeting? - Mon, 27 Jan 2003 4:32pm | ||
| Anonymous | ... - Mon, 27 Jan 2003 7:25pm | ||
| Metro | Whats the deal on this meeting? Whos coming, is it going to have any real impact? or will it just be a couple of the local promoters hashing out some ideas? Will the city send a rep? - Mon, 27 Jan 2003 7:41pm | ||
| Anonymous | !!! - Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:11pm | ||
| Anonymous | I think having 8.5 by 11 posters is too small for large events. In theory it makes sense but realistically I doesn't work for many things. People who are just passing by quickly and those in cars can see it it. And people count on that as well. In store windows I could probably handle using 8.5 by 14 posters. - Tue, 28 Jan 2003 7:58pm | ||
| Anonymous | In my last post it's supposed to read, people who are passing by quickly and in cars can't see 8.5 by 11 posters. - Tue, 28 Jan 2003 8:01pm | ||
| Another Idea | I'm just referring to smaller posters for store windows around town. You might get more up if they're smaller. It's just another way to get maximum coverage for your gig. I agree larger posters are better if you're driving by... but who can really get all the info they need that way, unless you're stuck in traffic? You usually have to go search out the poster on foot to find out the details, if you manage to catch who's playing. Keep your eyes on your driving! - Tue, 28 Jan 2003 8:10pm | ||
| Metropol User Info... | Hi everybody. Steve Webb here, formerly of Steamers, Lucky and AMP Media. I got an email about the debate going on here - unfortunately I missed it up to this point. Just wanted to fill you guys in on a business that I have just begun called METROPOL EPS. Perhaps my service can deal with some of these issues. I've been working on it for the past year and am launching it this week. This online forum is a good opportunity to announce it to you. Metropol is a poster service that offers an environmentally conscious method to evenly distribute poster advertising materials in the space designated by the City of Victoria. For a weekly fee, Metropol will pick up your printed posters and display them on the designated poles in a manner which will increase visibility and reduce waste. The concept behind Metropol is poster management. If we can all agree to equal representation on the poles, we can consolidate our poster advertising efforts. If we all poster together, the less competition we will face. This is a service offered primarily to bars and nightclubs that currently poster competitively as a response to the problem that currently exists; the lack of communication and organization that ultimately wastes everybody's money. The "guerilla-style" poster technique that we currently employ does not work for anybody. Until now, no single poster service has existed that has the resources to offer equal coverage to everybody. This service will also allow independent promoters an opportunity to advertise on a level playing field. :::How Does it Work::: The designated poles can accommodate 9 tabloid size posters. We will call each available space a "zone". As most of the designated poles are directly across the street from another pole, coverage on every second pole is adequate, making 18 total zones available per run. Metropol will facilitate two poster runs, seven days a week. Each morning, the posters will be assigned to one of 18 zones for a total of 25 posters per poster run (every second pole). For complete coverage, the zones in the evening poster run will flip to the opposite pole. This will allow for 18 events to be advertised on every pole, everyday. :::What does it cost::: Zones Cost per poster total posters ---------------------------------------------------- 1 Zone 1 Day $8 $0.16 50 1 Zone 7 Days $48 $0.14 350 2 Zone 1 Day $15 $0.15 100 2 Zone 7 Days $80 $0.11 700 3 Zone 1 Day $21 $0.14 150 3 Zone 7 Days $130 $0.12 1050 ---------------------------------------------------- Poster pick-up anywhere in downtown Victoria and cost of tape included. *In order to encourage the best scenerio in which all events can be advertised, Metropol will be offering a Service Launch Special: Weekly 2 zone contracts for $80 a week (reg. $90) for the duration of contract. This offer expires April 4, 2003. Metropol?s poster service will begin on Monday, February 17, 2003 Regarding monopolization - Metropol does not strive to monopolize the poles. It's an attempt to pool the resources of those who have the resources. Independent promoters will always have the right to poster. We will not force you to use our service. Metropol simply asks that on behalf of our clients - poster respectfully. I've spoken with Dan Scoones from the City of Victoria, and he's in full support of the idea. Thanks to everyone who's met with me already. (Lucky, Atomique, One, The Mint, Enigmantica Entertainment) I'll be in touch many more of you this week. See you all Sunday. Any questions, please call! Steve Webb Metropol EPS 884-6944 [email protected] - Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:17pm | ||
| Anonymous | A bit pricey unless venues kick in - Wed, 29 Jan 2003 5:53pm | ||
| Anonymous | ... - Thu, 30 Jan 2003 6:40pm | ||
| Livevic Scott User Info... | My question is how does that differ from any of ther poster businesses that already exist? as far as I see it (and I may be wrong) your not really solving the problem just providing another outlet for people needing posters put up and not having the time?? - Thu, 30 Jan 2003 7:35pm | ||
| Chris Logan User Info... | Yeah, it seems the main problem to me is not enough sanctioned places to put up posters. Without having more poles and/or a couple of big bulletin boards in high traffic areas, the problem remains of too many people trying to fill too little space. And, of course, people needlessly covering up other people's posters. - Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:22am | ||
| Metropol User Info... | Thanks for your comments. I wasn't aware of any other poster businesses in Victoria. I know some of you hold a few contracts for different venues, but realistically, no one wants to be a poster person forever. Eventually, all the major contracts get passed on, new people are introduced to the game, and the poster war begins again. Which is why I began Metropol. Metropol is here for the long haul, operating with a business license, an office space, and employees. This business will not suddenly move to a ski-town or dump your posters off the Breakwater. I am personally accountable for every poster and even offer "liquidated damages" clause in the contracts, which pays you if the posters don't go up. Metropol is committed to fostering better communication within the industry, and through good example, proving to the city that we can manage the space we have and are deserving of some more. The concept behind the idea is agreeing to equal representation. In order to make room for everybody it is not possible to poster on every pole. Which is why the service Metropol is offering will poster each event on every second pole - so there is room for 18 events advertised per poster run. Postering this sparsely individually seems like a tremendous waste of resources, which is why I stongly believe this business will work. The prices reflect an a push for 1 or 2 posters per venue or promoter, so under this system we can effectively poster the majority of events in Victoria on the poles designated by the city. I realise the numbers are difficult to understand, so I'll just present an equation that I just worked through with someone this week: A promoter needs one week of representation. He buys 1100 posters for $90 for a week of postering, and resigns himself to put them all up. (Therefore, all of the time he spends doing this is not accounted or paid for - but such is a labour of love, I guess). By taking his $90 poster budget and using Metropol's service, he would purchase a single zone weekly contract for $48. Now beacuse Metropol handles volume postering, his poster will go up twice a day, seven days a week on alternating poles. So the event will be advertised on every pole, every day. The fact that many others are using the service means that the many of the other events will be postered above or below his, not on top of his. The poster will stay up far longer and be more effective. But here's where the math works out: By using Metropol's service, a single zone weekly contract only requires 350 posters. Thats a third of the posters. So the $90 poster budget covers $30 for posters and $48 for the service, with change left over. This promoter has saved $12 and can have back ALL THE TIME HE WOULD HAVE SPENT POSTERING. Plus, he can feel better that by using Metropol, he has put 750 less posters in a landfill. And for a community that puts up 63,000 posters a month, that's a step in the right direction. Steve Webb Metropol EPS (250) 884-6944 [email protected] - Fri, 31 Jan 2003 1:57am | ||
| kenn | who owns the poles?....how can you charge for somthing you dont own? who ever belives that the rules will be followed? this is music not theater. we need to have way more designated poles so that we can still gorilla poster ....its laughable to think we'll walk hand in hand down the road saying things like..." your turn!...but be fair! ' next time is my turn ! as if !, more deignated areas seems to be a better solution....forget the trees forget the rules .,.....okay maybe find a way around the rules....lawyers!!!!!!!! - Fri, 31 Jan 2003 2:44am | ||
| Metropol User Info... | It's a service Kenn. I'd charge you to mow your lawn, and I don't own that. I admit that it's difficult to imagine everybody playing nice, but I for one am willing to try. The fact that this forum is happening is a sign that a good majority of us are. The city will not give us more space to advertise under the current conditions. We are actually losing poles, like the one that has disappeared in front of the Visitor Info Centre. "Forget the trees"??? Come on Kenn, how can you live in this part of the world and not see the effects of wasting natural resources. There's already been a fair amount of press about this issue of late, and when the environmentalists find out how much paper we use, I'll bet they will try to put a stop to postering completely. And we are going to stand up and say "Forget the trees - give us more poles"??? I don't see that one panning out. We need to work together. - Fri, 31 Jan 2003 3:21am | ||
| Troutbreath | Umm...just in case this issue ever does come up, I have planted over 125,000 trees one by one by hand, Douglas Fir, Hemlock, Cedar and Pine. I think that should cover toilet paper, my weekly monday mag and a few posters. I wonder how trees the rest of Victoria's musicians have collectively planted? - Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:10am | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | Metropol idea sounds really good, but what about the other 1000 people who will cover your posters up as soon as you turn the corner? It doesn't work unless everyone is on the same page. That won't happen. - Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:08pm | ||
| Metropol User Info... | As of this morning, most of the promoters and bar owners I've spoke to have expressed a willingness to participate. I've been trying to get a hold of everybody else. Thus far, the response has been very positive. If you put up posters, and have an opinion on this service - please call me. This can work. Steve Webb Metropol EPS (250) 884-6944 [email protected] - Fri, 31 Jan 2003 1:48pm | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | Cool. Which one puts up the porno/stripper ones? They're the worst. - Fri, 31 Jan 2003 1:59pm | ||
| Another Idea | Reply to Metropol: Regarding your statement: "He buys 1100 posters for $90 for a week of postering...". Perhaps I'm not reading this right - does this $90 INCLUDE ACTUAL PRODUCTION of the posters (design & printing/copying)? If so, then the figures you presented are MUCH more reasonable than I first thought! Still feel the venues should be paying for this service though, as the bands will lose most (or all) of their profits in the postering costs. The venues profit margin is far greater when there's a successful "full house" gig! Just want to get the facts straight. - Fri, 31 Jan 2003 5:09pm | ||
| Metropol User Info... | That $90 he pays is for the duplication of the posters only (at a rate of roughly $0.08 a poster). His design is above and beyond that cost, which I believe the going rate is about $40 a poster (If he doesn't design it himself). Let's say he puts up all the poster on his own time. That means his total poster bill is $130 (plus the value of his time). For Metropol's service, he still pays the design fee, and the duplication of his posters, and a fee for Metropol to put them up. The money saved is in the volume of posters. By postering more events evenly over the poles, the 350 posters required for a weekly single zone contract will give the same, if not better coverage than the 1100 poster he used to get for the same time frame. That means (assuming he doesn't get the same volume discount and pays $0.09 a poster) that his cost for duplicating the posters is about $30. The money he saves in duplication covers the cost of the service, with some scratch left over - not to mention freeing up the time he would have spent doing it. So the total poster bill for design, duplication and postering is ($40+$30+$48) $118. He saves $12, 750 posters, and a whole lot of time. This model is for a large volume of posters. If you buy strategic contracts leading up to your show, you could poster four key days (8 runs of 25 posters)for $32 plus roughly $18 for 200 posters (at $0.09 each). Assuming you design your own posters, that's a total bill of $50. Plus I invoice my clients - so you pay after the show. Hope this clarifies things a little. Steve Webb Metropol EPS (250) 884-6944 [email protected] - Fri, 31 Jan 2003 7:55pm | ||
| Livevic Scott User Info... | I think the main idea is if we could get everyone to use the same idea as Steve and drop down to one poster per event per poll. Oh and steve, what do you do when people use a horozontal layout to their posters as opposed to the vertical. That screws up your math as you would need even numbers of people with the horozontal deisgn, and you can't quite get as many of them on the poll as you can with the vertical? Do you charge more for them? or just say they're out of luck? Just wondering about that? - Sat, 1 Feb 2003 6:39pm | ||
| Metropol User Info... | Thanks Scott. I thought a lot about the horizontal poster problem. I think the design of the posters is an integral part of promoting, so being able to design in both orientations is part of the whole package. It does complicate the math a little but I figured if I wasn't running at full capacity I could make exceptions and service a few horizontal posters. But now that you mention it - I'm quite sure that if we're very careful about it, perhaps we could post 9 vertical and 2 horizontal per pole. Then there would be an additional four zones for these posters (or this could create room for those who want to do their own postering). Does anyone know the exact measurements of the steel rungs? If not, I'll measure one tomorrow so we'll know. Steve Metropol EPS - Sun, 2 Feb 2003 4:16am | ||
| Luke Puke | This is TOO FUNNY.If your band was any good lots of people would come see you...also if your bar was cool lots of people would drink there!Greedy wannabe rockstar losers!!!!!!Stop the pretending:your bar sucks and your band sucks.The city spends a lot of $$$$$ cleaning up after you.Poster=POSER!!! - Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:25am | ||
| Metro | LUke Puke shut dA FUCK UP FOOL! - Sun, 2 Feb 2003 1:56pm | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | Another clueless retard too busy sucking his mom's dink to know shit about being in a band. - Sun, 2 Feb 2003 1:59pm | ||
| Metro | I cant think of how many times people I know have heard that we have done a show, or that a certain band came from out of town, and like a week later those people are crying becasue they didnt know until afterwards. - Sun, 2 Feb 2003 2:14pm | ||
| duality | as someone who posters for a theatre company and the band i'm in, i think it's an idea who's time has come to get co-ordinated. i can't make the meeting but will be happy to stay tuned here for more info. The music scene exists because of all of us. if you are destroying posters it stands to reason you are also destroying it for yourselves. if anyone is still on the fence about this problem becoming more fair think what would happen if some of these venues changed from a live format to fulltime d.j.s because of poster fines. it affects us all. Now do you understand? - Sun, 2 Feb 2003 2:41pm | ||
| Another Idea | The meeting is about to start! GOOD LUCK TO ALL! PLEEEEEZZZE post the results on this site for those who are very interested but can't make the meeting. Best wishes to everyone trying to make a positive difference for all types of live music on the Island! - Sun, 2 Feb 2003 3:01pm | ||
| Metropol User Info... | Thanks everybody who attended the meeting regarding the postering issue at Thursday's today. We had representation from Steamers, livevictora.com, Soundgarden, Atomique, Thursdays, S.O.S, Dragon Heights Multimedia, Alex (sorry, forgot to get your card), J.A.F. (Ya!), Victoria City Council, Monday Magazine, and others. The New VI covered it so watch the news tonight. It was a very positive discussion. Many promoters and business owners had an opportunity to meet face to face and discuss the problems, concerns and possible solutions to the environmental and financial issues arising from the current postering climate in downtown Victoria. Those in attendance who are directly responsible for the volume of posters they put up* unanimously agreed to limit future event advertising to one poster per event, per pole. This alone will greatly reduce the overall paper waste. This group has asked that other promoters and event planners try to follow suit. This move alone stands to improve the situation. *(Persons who are contracted by someone else to poster have no control over this). Thanks to everyone who gave me feedback on Metropol. I look forward to working with you all. Information on the service is available in the Resources section of this site, as well as the website at http://www.moondude.tv/metropol early next week. Make sure to listen to Scott from livevictoria.com on CBC tomorrow morning at 7:15 am. Steve Webb Metropol EPS (I noticed someone else posts on this forum as Metro. Just wanted to point out we're two different people). - Sun, 2 Feb 2003 6:39pm | ||
| Another Idea | Congratulations Everyone!!! All the BEST! - Sun, 2 Feb 2003 6:49pm | ||
| Livevic Scott User Info... | Actually thats 7:50am tommorow morning on CBC Victoria. I'll be talking with the host and someone from the city about postering and the problems we have with what they're doing and the problems they have with what we're doing. It sounds as if it could be positive! Wish me luck at dragging my tail out that early! - Mon, 3 Feb 2003 2:20am | ||
| Anonymous | the real trouble begins when the anarchists get organized! - Tue, 4 Feb 2003 1:29am | ||
| haha | hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Look-out victoria conservatives, here we come.Power to the Anarchists. - Tue, 4 Feb 2003 1:43am | ||
| ENIGMATICA ENTERTAINMENT | I'm sorry that any Enigmatica Entertainment organizers/contributors were unable to attend the meeting. Did anyone bring up the concerns of promoters? -Lack of space to poster - Lack of money to use alternatives including Metropole (although I think Steve is making an effort to make things better while trying to run a good business) - Did anyone tell the representatives how worrisome it is not to have adequate coverage when thousands of dollars are invested on events. - Who takes the plunge while these experiments are being put in place (although it could work out fine. - No guarantees) - Ads are very expensive too. - Is there any matching funding efforts from the City to come up with solutions to this issue? Or is it just "our problem" again like other issues (nimby)... Matching grants are available for other worthwhile community iniciatives. Maybe an application could be put in under "Economic Development" within the Special Projects Grant Program? - Tue, 4 Feb 2003 4:21am | ||
| ENIGMATICA ENTERTAINMENT | Good luck Scott! I'll try and listen. Peace - Tue, 4 Feb 2003 4:32am | ||
| Chris Logan User Info... | Anyone (especially venues/promoters/musicians) interested in this question might want to check out the other thread I started (Victoria Poster Clampdown). I didn't want to repeat myself, and it's a slightly different issue. - Tue, 4 Feb 2003 4:35am | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Here's what gets me aboot this whole scenario. Our (bars, bands, promoters no matter how greedy or scummy any of us may be) efforts are a contribution to Victoria's economy. Getting people out to spend their money, pay tax on each admission, drink, etc...is doing Victoria a favor. The ignorance of the retards on the city by-law comittee makes me unwilling to even talk to them in the first place. Face it: government, whether municipal, provincial, or federal, will never listen to common sense. They listen to the average, old, ignorant, miserable no-life who goes around ripping down all the posters, which causes militants like myself to do those areas again and put up twice as many the second time with 10 times as many staples in them. It's us against them. Unfortunately, always will be until some persons in our clan get their shit together and get elected to these posts. Won't be me...I think politicians should all be beheaded...even the ones in trivial positions. They will pretend to care, but I know better. Find the loophole and sodomize the gov't any way you can. Vodka is good. - Tue, 4 Feb 2003 5:21am | ||
| Livevic Scott User Info... | unfortunatly when you go back though with twice as many posters they can take each of them down after taking a picture and present you with a fine of $200 per poster. Either that or present it to the bar you played at. For the first time in 3 years of putting on shows and postering I had a bylaw officer come up and threat me with a fine. If on an average show you put up even 100 posters (which isn't many I know) you could in theory get fined $200,000 now I realize you wouldn't get that whole fine but to me thats something to at least TRY and work within the system to avoid. If we don't try we'll never see if this can work. Plus the fact that after talking to some members from the city if in fact we can sorta control the postering a bit they'll prolly give us more places to poster within the law. - Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:45pm | ||
| Metropol User Info... | Hey Scott- I've been talking with Malcolm (S.O.S.) about formally presenting a proposal to the city for additional poster cylinders. I believe the turnout at the meeting Sunday was a good indication that this is an issue worth fighting. Can you get some of your direct concerns together so we can draft this sucker up? I spoke to Dan Scoones (from your radio interview yesterday) this morning and he outlined the proposal method. It's going to take one of us to stand up in front of Victoria City Council and prove that we need them. I'd love to do it. Let's meet and sort it out. Sound like we have a good shot. Steve Webb Metropol EPS http://www.moondude.tv/metropol - Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:50pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Three things: a. I don't go back after postering to spite the city, who 9 times out of ten have no jurisdiction over the poles we do...it's to spite the grumpy old fucks who keep tearing them down because they don't like how they look. b. I try my hardest to put one poster per pole, except at prime spots at fast intersections where there are tons of other posters (Quadra/Hillside for example). c. Will the city ticket people who rip down the posters to make it a fair playing field? - Tue, 4 Feb 2003 4:19pm | ||
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