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Lemontree can fuck off
| Message Board > Controversy and Quarantine > Lemontree can fuck off |
| asswipe User Info... | The douchebags at lemon tree are fucking around one of the last paying gigs in town. Buddy moves here from who the fuck knows where and sets up shop right above Logan's. He calls it a recording studio but mostly rents it out as a practice space during the afternoons and evenings. The shitty bass and drums coming through the ceiling is unbearable for customers, shaking the rafters, making them leave. Normally i support that kind activity, but not when you fuck with someone elses ability to run shop. It is not the bands, they are usually pretty good and many of them play at Logan's. Logan's have been here supporting and growing with the music scene in victoria for over ten years. A regular paying gig for many, many local bands. Now this douchebag is making it hard for the bar to operate during the afternoon and evenings. If this continues we as a music community risk losing this gig spot. Would you rather have a practice spot or a paying gig? If you would rather a regular paying gig and accessible music venue I encourage you to phone or email colin at lemontree and let him know how you feel about losing another live music venue. 250-508-8040 [email protected] - Sun, 22 Aug 2010 11:39am | ||
| Anchor User Info... | This has already been hashed out in the "If you rehearse at Lemon Tree Records" thread in the general section. - Sun, 22 Aug 2010 12:19pm | ||
| steve User Info... | comfortable rehearsal spot here with recording options.. http://www.runway-studios.com pro jam is rad too - Sun, 22 Aug 2010 7:39pm | ||
| Evangelium User Info... | I'd like both Lemon Tree and Logans to go so I can open a Synagogue at that address. Mazel Tov. - Sun, 22 Aug 2010 9:23pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | No way. Too close to Ground Zero. - Mon, 23 Aug 2010 5:30pm | ||
| RobW. User Info... | by paying gig, you mean unpaid or paid in drink tickets redeemable for one type of beer, right? - Mon, 23 Aug 2010 7:07pm | ||
| steve User Info... | i gotta imagine a few bands have walked out of there with a few bucks in their pockets... - Mon, 23 Aug 2010 8:15pm Edited: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 8:15pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | "The douchebags at lemon tree are fucking around one of the last paying gigs in town. " why do you most people here think Logan's is the be all end all of places to play here? You do realize there's alot of venues here for such a small-ish scene. But of course, Logan's is the be all and all for everything... and I second Rob's comment lol - Tue, 24 Aug 2010 9:44am | ||
| steve User Info... | Definitely not the 'be all, end all' in my opinion but a pretty fantastic venue and opportunity for bandss.. Jl.. other venues? that will have small up start bands.. and serve alcohol? especially, punk/metal? I can imagine if you drew a decent audience into logans that a band or two could walk out with a couple bucks.. might be mistaken. - Tue, 24 Aug 2010 3:40pm Edited: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 3:41pm | ||
| Codine Vandal User Info... | 500 at the door before you see anything last time i played there - Tue, 24 Aug 2010 7:45pm | ||
| steve User Info... | FortCafe is rad - Tue, 24 Aug 2010 9:23pm | ||
| Ms. Choksondik User Info... | Logans capacity is 150. So 10$ show + full house = 1500$. Even if they did take 500(which is far from true) at the door thats a grand between 3 bands? Which is plenty to pay an out of town band and 2 locals. The key being you need a band with draw. Now CV and Ji, you can't book your new band, your buddys new band and some other band no one has ever heard of and expect a huge pay out. Play there a bunch of times for shitty beer and 50 bucks, let people hear you and maybe you'll have better luck. Steve is right, there's really not a lot of options for punk/metal bands to play in town anymore. Logans is a pillar in that community. So fuck off LTR.. btw, is Colin that longhaired kid who used to play in that classic rock coverband? Acidwash I think they were called? - Wed, 25 Aug 2010 8:28pm | ||
| Jl User Info... | even a band with a draw finds it hard to maximize their profits at a venue like logans*(bigger higher end venues are easier because you have outlets for ticket sales and generally people dont pester you/the band for tickets or 'friends/family' discounts). I have NOTHING against logans and stay true to my opinion that its not the ONLY venue in town. I've seen some great bands at Logans(thursdays for you old timers out there!); and will continue to do so. HOWEVER, Im done with shitting on the business upstairs... its a studio, come to expect it and maybe the business' themselves can work out a solution without people chiming in on messageboards trashing the shit out of one or the other. Logan's is a decent venue, whenever I've played there its been ok. We never really walked out with much in our pockets(even though there was alot of people there), however I do not rely on music to pay rent so it was never really an issue to me so long as I got to play on a stage! I believe someone mentioned Fort St. Cafe, they've been(from what I've seen, i haven't been there in person yet) promoting up start acts... You cant expect the world as an up and coming band, get in where you get in... meaning, put yourselves out there instead of relying on myspace and facebook to do the work for you. Ask to open for EVERY band that comes through or plays... venues want bands that are motivated(and of course sound good, which is a matter of opinion to whoever's doing bookings at said venue). It shows that the band has the drive to at least promote a show and bring people in, which in turn brings liqour sales(or hopfully lol)... this then makes EVERYONE happy in the end. - Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:47am | ||
| CL User Info... | Howdy! Just for the record, we take $200 from the door (not $500) and we don't take any percentage. The more people who come, the more the bands make. End o' story. Please note this is for shows we book, not for outside promoters. Outside promoters pay US the $200, and what they pay the bands is their business. - Fri, 27 Aug 2010 4:59pm | ||
| CL User Info... | While I'm here, I might as well say if you have any concerns about your treatment at Logan's email me directly at getchrislogan AT loganspub.com and I'll try to address them. Cheers! Chris Logan - Fri, 27 Aug 2010 5:02pm | ||
| steve User Info... | JL, If you succumb to your 'friends and family' bugging for cheap/free tickets then I wouldn't go blaming the Pubs ticket distribution model.... also sounds like some greedy promoters might have hurt your end of night bottom line not logans pub. The music scene is often referred to as a community. In essence the successes and failures of individuals in a community can be greatly influenced by the actions of others in the community. Treat your neighbours with respect and you'll get respect back. Jl, yeah FORT CAFE is rad.. amazing food.. great beers and a positive attitude and contribution to the scene.. not the ideal venue for HardRock/Metal/Punk though. For that Logans Cant be beat.. in my opinion. also, you stated that "blah blah blah ... which brings liquor sales in ... this then makes everyone happy..." well what if your neighbour is polluting your space with noise, or a foul stench or whatever sort of annoyingness and subsequently hurting your liquor sales.. well then I don't think everyone is quite so happy in the end. http://www.runway-studios.com contact me about our 4-8pm special promo.. - Sat, 28 Aug 2010 10:47am | ||
| asswipe User Info... | HEY, you changed my handle. haha. sweet. I like it better somehow. Has a nice ring to it. thanks - Sun, 29 Aug 2010 1:12pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Unfortunately there are some promoters here in town that are taking advantage of local bands. While I try to not work with them, sometimes it's tough to avoid because of the lesser amount of venues here. When I put on shows myself, all the bands make more money with less people in attendance. What a strange phenomenon. Everyone has had their experiences and knows who is doing this. Hopefully with more assertiveness from local musicians, the $150 pay will increase to what's fair and the phantom promo costs will become extinct. Also, if you don't draw people to your show, you don't deserve anything. - Sun, 29 Aug 2010 3:27pm | ||
| Mike S User Info... | 'Slightly' off topic but.. why is it that certain pubs/bars limit the bands to the crappiest beer on tap? Ive often wondered, would it really be such a financial burden to allow the band a pitcher or pint of a decent beer vs a Ranier or similar? After all they are working and helping to draw in the people who are spending their money at the bar. It just seems to me that the extra few bucks to allow them a tasty microbrew or import beer wouldnt be such a big deal. Ive even offered to pay some extra on top of my beer ticket for a decent pint and been told no.. - Mon, 30 Aug 2010 7:33am | ||
| asswipe User Info... | when there are three or even four bands with 4-6 members getting 2-3 beers each 3 nights a week can add up to alot of beers. and bands get those beers whether or not anybody comes to the show, sometimes even out numbering patrons. as for upgrading your ticket to a premium product, quite simply it is an accounting nightmare. - Mon, 30 Aug 2010 4:03pm | ||
| CL User Info... | Well, our "crappiest" draft is now Sleeman's Original, so it's better than Rainier! Still, the choice of beer is important to some people. I would suggest bringing it up when you're booking the show. It's unlikely you'll be totally shut down if you say you want a particular type of beer. There's often an assumed antagonism between the bands and the venue. Bands often think they're getting fucked over by the venue, but usually don't know anything about what costs or business conditions the venue might be carrying. Venues (and staff) sometimes see bands as a demanding pain in the ass and insult them in small (and big) ways. The fact is both parties need the other side. I firmly believe we treat bands fairly at Logan's (and base this on my own experience as a musician) but I appreciate any opportunity to improve our relationship. Often it's just a matter of better communication. - Mon, 30 Aug 2010 5:56pm | ||
| Mike S User Info... | Sleemans is a definate step up from a Ranier Id say.. and ftr, I wasnt singling out Logans at all, just alot of bars/pubs in general but its nice to get your perspective Chris.. Ive also noticed that venues in provinces with lower alcohol prices (ie: taxes) tend to be more care free in such matters, Alberta and Quebec come to mind.. but then when I was in QC last summer on a tour I stocked up on 6 packs of Sleemans Original at $5.99 per from a small chinese corner store on St Laurent - funny thing is that in Guelph at the 'Sleemans Mall' ( yes a mall owned by Sleemans in their hometown) the same 6 pack was $12.99. - Wed, 1 Sep 2010 9:16am Edited: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 9:16am | ||
| CL User Info... | Quebec is a heaven for drug, alcohol, and cigarette consumption - or at least it used to be! - Wed, 1 Sep 2010 11:00am | ||
| Evangelium User Info... | Newsflash. Beer varies in price from province to province and from country to country. As does food, gas, real estate etc etc etc.... I discovered this while not on tour last summer. - Wed, 1 Sep 2010 9:26pm Edited: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 9:27pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | Steve, When has a lemontree practice ever affected a show going on at logan's? I believe Chris was speaking about the afternoons... and last I checked theres no shows in the afternoon.*(just for note: i have no idea who owns this studio or what its about... just the situation it has caused with the backlash regarding the pub... and as I said before, maybe we should let them work it out instead of shit bashing another studio that's here to help and not hinder) as far as the tickets thing goes... it would be nice to just take the door at most venues, however its NOT like that everywhere. Try selling your own tickets(150) at full pop to everyone... of course out of that 150 some people are gunna j*w you down. If they had to buy a ticket at a venue or outlet, do you think they'd barter? NO. So my point is that a bigger venue can be more beneficial*(depending on your needs/wants/goals). Oh yeah, and after that 150 tickets are sold... you dont get any door. The way a venue sees the ticket distr./sales is 150 tickets at 10$ is 1500$. That's ALOT of money, do you think you could sell them ALL(no exceptions, and no "oh he or/ she's my friend/family so I felt bad") at face value; personally to people that want to come to the show? I highly doubt it. - Sun, 5 Sep 2010 10:03am Edited: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 10:06am | ||
| steve User Info... | JDL, From what I understand Logans has a long history of hosting open mics during the afternoon... and from what I can understand from the exhaustive threads(s) pertaining to this problem the issue does primarily surround the open mic times as well as food/drink seeking patrons. remember logans doesnt just open it doors at 9pm to 1am. (amazing brunch!) If you read the thread there is no mention that I can find of LemonTree's noise issues causing problems with the evening shows. .. But if an establishment is loosing business (good business) during the afternoons because of a disrespectful neighbour. And I am a fan of this establishment because after the afternoon comes the evening and during the evening they put on some of the best shows in the city.. well then.. it rubs me the wrong way. and in regards to ticket sales.. I have very little pity for someone who gives out their tickets for cheap or free and then complains about it. thats about all I got to say about that. If your friends/family wont pay full price.. fuck em... they're not really fans anyways just friends and family. yeah your show might be empty but at least we wont have to listen to complaints about 'ticket distribution models'. just my two cents. - Sun, 5 Sep 2010 11:02am Edited: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 11:02am | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Book a show with bands that draw (and have a band that draws people in), and you will have 150 people show up without much effort. - Sun, 5 Sep 2010 9:29pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | Steve, that's great you feel that way about ticket sales; but the fact of the matter is, its hard to sell 150 tickets all at face value for a venue like logans, rehab, lucky, etc... You might want to try it before bashing. I understand the way you see it, but i would love for you to try it... I totally understand the predicament on both sides; however, I am not biased either way. Which is why I dont give a rats ass either way. Logan's has gone through a hell of a lot more in terms of fighting for their business than this. Do you not remember the smoking ban? and how logan's was one of the last to give up smoking? How much did that cost? or how about not being able to use the patio for smokers? Or how about in the evenings when the sidewalk is CLOGGED TO FUCK with smokers that lean on my fucking car when Im coming out of the squash club? More over, the squash club has NEVER complained about the loud music next door*(again because none of us mind it, unless you have your panties in a bunch). So before you go defending the rights, remember there's other establishments that have to deal with Logan's riff raff too. - Wed, 8 Sep 2010 10:29am | ||
| steve User Info... | 1) dont park there if you dont want people leaning on your car.. walk a block. 2) you say the squash players havent complained because 'none of them mind'.. sounds good, nothing to complain about. But what about someone or some establishment that does mind. Do they not have the right to express their views on the situation? Just cause you dont doesnt mean they cant. 3)ticket sales.. i am trying it.. and know what? If I do give some away for cheap/free.. you wont hear me complaining about the distribution model.. (which in this case would be myself. or in your case, you) 4)either give em away or play to an half empty room... or book a band that has the draw you're looking for. - Wed, 8 Sep 2010 5:46pm Edited: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 5:47pm | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | I think Mr. Hell just...aaah yeah. - Wed, 8 Sep 2010 11:09pm | ||
| Uncle Twodog User Info... | I'm going to go into my kitchen now, and get a cookie. - Wed, 8 Sep 2010 11:34pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | what's funny is a more-or less tongue in cheek comment is taken so literally. All I was trying to say is that its easier to have a ticket outlet selling your tickets than having to sell them yourself. Incase you had trouble the first time round, here it is for a second time: "even a band with a draw finds it hard to maximize their profits at a venue like logans*(bigger higher end venues are easier because you have outlets for ticket sales and generally people dont pester you/the band for tickets or 'friends/family' discounts). I have NOTHING against logans and stay true to my opinion that its not the ONLY venue in town. I've seen some great bands at Logans(thursdays for you old timers out there!); and will continue to do so. HOWEVER, Im done with shitting on the business upstairs... its a studio, come to expect it and maybe the business' themselves can work out a solution without people chiming in on messageboards trashing the shit out of one or the other." There it is. Now, tell me where I was specifically complaining about a ticket distribution model? I was just saying its easier to leave it to someone else... like most things lol. Dont read too hard into it; its pretty simple. Now, that being said; I believe logan's has every right to complain... but you're only hating on them because your bias towards logan's, which is totally fair. I, as I said before, am not partial to either business in this arguement. But I hope they can work it out... its a pretty easy going area :S And lastly, the whole squash club thing was more for perspective than anything else. Again, dont read too far into it. The reality is that Lemontree needs to ball up and Logan's should really keep these matters between the business'. I unerstand the pain in the ass this has been, and the pains in the asses that they've gone through(logan's) in the past. But this is definitely no place to state their complaints*(its obveously heavily balanced logan's favor, they have nothing to gain here except approval on their opinion) - Thu, 9 Sep 2010 1:20pm | ||
| steve User Info... | No trouble the first time, thanks. Since you asked... the first sentence of your quote above. Not just easier but more profitable to let someone else do it and you don't have to be bothered with friends and family pestering you for a discount. Sounds like someone complaining about the way tickets are given out.. or the ticket distribution model. Im not trying to be a dick.. I just enjoy a good back and forth and you said a few things that got me thinking. In my opinion this is a fair venue for logans to express to the bands that potentially rehearse at LT that they're not as insulated as they may think and that their excessive volume is having a negative impact on the venue that they're trying to get a gig at one day. Didnt realize I was 'hating' on LT. I do believe I was offering a potential solution to the problem and enjoying the conversations that ensued. Oct. 28th Logans Runway-Studios presents- YEAR OF THE RAT w/theNewColors/LiquidTuesdaze and RAWWAR! 7$ at the door. - Thu, 9 Sep 2010 5:27pm | ||
| CL User Info... | "In my opinion this is a fair venue for logans to express to the bands that potentially rehearse at LT that they're not as insulated as they may think and that their excessive volume is having a negative impact on the venue that they're trying to get a gig at one day." That's pretty much it. For a while it seemed like Lemon Tree was trying to coexist - I even considered telling my lawyer the problem was resolved. Then, about a month ago, it seems Colin gave up on trying to be a good neighbour. The noise got out of control again, and Colin now openly tells me and my staff to fuck off. The other day my bartender was going nuts from the drums: someone said it sounded like they were miked up. I can't believe this is true, but it gives you an idea how bad it is. All we hope to achieve by posting here is to let bands know how loud it is downstairs. If, knowing that, they continue to rehearse at huge volume, well, I guess they just don't give a shit what happens to us. - Fri, 10 Sep 2010 1:12am | ||
| JDL User Info... | I know its probably redundant to say it; but the landlord has nothing to say about this matter?*(property managemant company or w/e) It is in the property owners best interest to keep all clients happy. Just seems wierd that they wouldn't do anything. I have faith that you guys at Logans will strive, and the customer support will always be there. When times get tough, you guys seem to always work it out*(just like the smoking/patio battles you've had in the past.) Steve, I totally understand what you mean; and trust me, live in person... you would not pick up a sniffle of complaints from me. And has this gone from the ownership to the bands being to blame? How are the bands at fault? We reherse*(not at LTR) at loud volumes.. its the way we like to reherse. I think LTR, NOT THE BANDS, are to blame. To chris' credit he NEVER blamed the bands there. And as for the parking thing, why should I have to walk a block when there's parking right outside where I need to go? It not theirs or ANYONE's 'right' to lean on my car... its a fucking piss off because a)that person is dis-respecting your property b)it can damage paint, body etc... Just because you drive a POS doesn't mean you treat everyone elses property like a POS*(i left that out last time because it really wasn't relavent, but then I thought about it again). As I said before, I completely understand the situation. But this being a board that is HEAVILY biased towards logan's is no forum to come here and complain. All you'll get is re-assurance that you're right. Are you that vein? Deal with it in house... leave the public out of it. - Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:32am Edited: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:32am | ||
| steve User Info... | Bands aren't to blame at all .. and never wanted to insinuate that. If LT wont listen or 'manage' their business so that it doesn't disrupte other businesses (regardless of what or who they are) then I do believe it is more than polite for Chris to come here and let the bands know how loud they are downstairs.. cause obviously LT management isn't. Why should you have to walk?.. you shouldnt. People shouldnt lean on your car. I myself drive a nicer newer car and would freak if someone was leaning against it out side the pub.. .. so rather than put myself in a situation where I have to bitch out a drunkard and probably get rocked.. I just park up the street a bit... so I dont put my car (or myself and my big mouth) in harms way. JDL, I have complete confidence that in real life you're not a whiny little bitch and would be stoked if you came out on oct.28th for the runway presents show.. I'll even buy you a beer. 7$ at the door (problem solved) I see where you're coming from regarding the, "this isnt the place to discuss this comment..." but what i think you're missing (and I could be wrong) is that this is the only venue for Chris to speak with the bands directly and let them know that the business they are supporting is hurting Logans. Sounds like 'in house' has been tried. - Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:46am | ||
| CL User Info... | Hey JDL - you're a reasonable guy, and I just want you to know, we are trying to get the landlord to act, but it looks like he's just hoping it will all go away. Our lawyer is involved and we're gathering evidence for our case. The problem is it takes FOREVER. And think about it - what's our biggest pressure on the landlord? Moving out. That's not something we can do overnight, not something we want to do, and not something we should have to do. Steve is absolutely right: all we're trying to do is let bands know the effect they're having on us, because Colin sure isn't. While this case drags on for-fucking-EVER my staff are losing money NOW. And if bands think that their "right" to loud rehearsals trumps every other right, again, there's not too much I can do about that except wonder what kind of people they are and how they got that way. - Fri, 10 Sep 2010 12:01pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | Well it definitely sucks that the landlord is turning his head :S You would think a business that's been there for almost 2 decades(if not more!) would have a bit of attention from the landlord. I know you guys are trying your best to get a resolution; it just sucks for both parties when threads like this pop up. Steve, Yeah I see what you mean about putting yourself in a situation; but I feel that people should be able to respect others property regardless if your drunk or sober. I would never lean on someone's car(that I didn't know... if its yours then w/e) because I know it annoys me when people do it to me. And its not like I would bitch slap someone for doing that; Id ask them not to lean on my car politely and hopefully they extend the same courtesy. If not, then what goes around will come around. Oct.28th, I'll do my best to come out! I like Logan's and it sucks that business has dropped that much. What's funny is how the hell all these bands are practicing in the daytime... dont they work?!?!? that space costs $$!! - Fri, 10 Sep 2010 1:26pm | ||
| T.C. User Info... | If I could get out more, I'd eat at Logan's EVERYDAY. The food is so good there. - Fri, 10 Sep 2010 4:14pm | ||
| T.C. User Info... | Seriously. You guys should hook up with Dine-In. - Fri, 10 Sep 2010 6:42pm | ||
| Trevcore User Info... | Fish Taco Friday, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm the istructions on the bottle asy not to operate a motor vehicle. So ya, it would be nice times if tyou delivered. - Fri, 10 Sep 2010 10:08pm | ||
| Berry McCocener User Info... | CL, i dont think any of your frustration should be directed at lemon tree. from their point of view, the moved in to run a legitimate business renting rehearsal space and recording, your land lord knew of their plans and is still allowing it to go on, from lemontrees point of view, they are doing nothing wrong, they are operating within their rental agreement and if that is driving customers away, i believe you should be fighting with the landlord and NOT another tenant. i understand that you are losing money, but if lemontree stops renting out jam space they too will loose money. and as for your staff losing money, i have absolutely no sympathy for that. if they are solely relying on tips as a source of income and cant hack it off their hourly wages, well they should probably get a better paying job. - Sat, 11 Sep 2010 11:54am | ||
| JDL User Info... | In case you dont know how a business runs: Servers do not RELY on tips. If business is waining and customers do not come in, what's the need for serving staff? As someone who understands this concept, the less business there is; the less staff you need. Therefore, lay-offs begin and the cycle of un-employment follows. Being a callous dick about it isn't gunna help anything. If you cant see that then, Im glad you dont run a)LTR or b)Logans. As for the noise, how is it that the old tennants (eurodog) had absolutely no problems running the studio there? Yet LTR is having issues with soundproofing? What gives? Oh, maybe the fact that there's no soundproofing? Furthermore, if they gave 2 shits about the music scene here; they should be more concious about the business' they are hurting... in the end its one less place for their clients to play. Git your head out of your arse and learn what's been going on instead of chiming in after 1 post. - Sat, 11 Sep 2010 12:42pm Edited: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 12:43pm | ||
| steve User Info... | 360? but i like it. Berry, how can you have no sympathy for an establishment and those it employs when their lively hood (the money they make to feed their kids) is loosing business to no fault of their own. This all boils down to respect. - Sat, 11 Sep 2010 2:03pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | Never said I didn't like logan's... but when mis-informed people chime in with penis-head like comments, then I think it deserves it right back. Logan's has always been a pretty easy going place, no attitudes etc... I may not like playing there(and its not for any personal reasons against the bar, I just like playing at other venues), but I love seeing some of the shows that pass through. One of my favorite shows there was when Stutterfly came through about 7 years ago, that was a fucking awesome show. I wouldn't say a complete 360, because I still think that the business dealings between the 2 business' could've been done in a more private setting heh. But I also understand that Chris is getting no attention from the studio guys upstairs, which is terrible. And I think asking the bands directly(maybe not directly because this board doesn't reach EVERY musician), is a halfway decent solution. My thoughts, get Rick May to offer a deal to bands that reherse there to come practice at Pro Jam instead :P j/k. - Sat, 11 Sep 2010 2:59pm | ||
| CL User Info... | JDL, you've always been thoughtful and reasonable, even though we don't always see eye to eye. Berry just sounds like a wang. I don't really know where to start with him; maybe I'll just point out that if servers were paid an hourly wage they could live on, his meals would cost twice what they do. It's a funny system, but that's just the way it's developed in North America, and anywhere else people work for tips. - Sat, 11 Sep 2010 8:36pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | I completely understand the point about the servers. And I do believe that a server should 'work' for the tip and not 'expect' it*(but that's another debaucle in itself). Anyhow, I really hope those guys upstairs understand what they're doing to not only to one of victoria's longest standing bars; but to the music scene. Creating divisions in music scenes leads to clique-ness. From there results in a whole pool of people bitching at one an another. And finally, it pollutes the scene so bad that either everything falls apart, or someone finally figures it out. Hopefully it doesn't go that far :@ I hate seeing venues close(even if there's alot of them) - Sun, 12 Sep 2010 10:39am | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | People who are unreasonable and douchey need to be cliqued-out to keep our community as free from retardation as possible. You can't force people to act professionally unfortunately, so all that can be done is the shunning thing. - Sun, 12 Sep 2010 2:31pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | well its too bad LTR isn't using this to bridge gaps between them and Logans/Logan's clients... Its pretty apparent who's on who's side of things. If it were me; Id do everything I could to make sure there was a good working relationship. Shit, they could've probably had a Lemon Tree night at Logan's if they played ball!*(though Im not taking liberties; I would see that, if this was a good relationship, working out quite well for both business'. Kinda like what ProJam used to do with Steamers). Alas, all we're left with is people bitching about one business or the other. Again, Im not biased to either business, and couldn't really care less about what happens in the end(its really none of my business). However, I do acknowledge that Logan's is an important/sentimental place for ALOT of people around here, and Victoria being a relatively small town... you dont wanna burn your bridges too quickly(especially if your still pretty young:S). - Mon, 13 Sep 2010 12:56pm | ||
| steve User Info... | Very too bad.... speaking of which.. Runway Studios Showcase on OCT.28th.. Mr.Hell.. dont they call that a 'Boycott'? - Mon, 13 Sep 2010 2:24pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | I like to pretend that I live in the days when the Earth was flat and people who didn't wash their hair were burned at the stake for being witches. - Mon, 13 Sep 2010 7:25pm | ||
| RobW. User Info... | hootenany was pretty loud last night.. if I can hear it through the floor upstairs I don't think my band is drowning your bar in bass. Also have been in Logan's within the last week. came down during a very loud practice and was underwhelmed by the lack of noise coming from upstairs. could not hear anything at all. skapegoat much? really not impressed... - Mon, 13 Sep 2010 8:56pm Edited: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 8:57pm | ||
| CL User Info... | Hi Rob! Have you ever spoken to any of our staff? Because they can tell you how bad it gets. Do you really think they're all trying to "scapegoat?" Do you really think we would go to this much trouble? Do you really think I would hire a lawyer? Do you think I would risk my reputation in public if there wasn't a terrible problem? Why would we do that? What would we have to gain? I'm 41 years old. Do you think this is the sort of thing I would do for a laugh? Isn't it much more likely that rock bands rehearsing at full volume on the second floor above an uninsulated ceiling actually cause quite a lot of noise below? Doesn't that seem reasonable? - Mon, 13 Sep 2010 10:11pm | ||
| Uncle Twodog User Info... | Logan's should get Hell's Angels strippers in the afternoons. I bet all this conflict would just disappear. - Mon, 13 Sep 2010 10:31pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | +1 for the above mention! - Tue, 14 Sep 2010 9:49am | ||
| CL User Info... | Hmmm....+1 for the strippers or for the Angels? Cuz I worked at a bar where Angels hung out. They were the nicest guys in the world, and also completely fucking terrifying. - Tue, 14 Sep 2010 10:19am | ||
| JDL User Info... | +1 for the strippers!!! - Tue, 14 Sep 2010 1:45pm Edited: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 1:46pm | ||
| Trevcore User Info... | "They" might not appreciate the noise from upstairs when their girls are trying to dance. Hehe. I'm just saying - Tue, 14 Sep 2010 8:17pm | ||
| Berry McCocener User Info... | bottom line, this is the wrong place to air your dirty laundry as a business owner (thats you chris). keep your shit private, deal with the appropriate parties capable of solving the problem by whatever means be it eviction, time limitations, further sound proofing etc. maybe in the future logans and ltr can coexist without bashing one another. i believe that both businesses are of value to the music community and there is a solution to the problem. best of luck chris - Fri, 17 Sep 2010 5:50pm | ||
| CL User Info... | Really? I thought this was a messageboard about issues of interest to local musicians. Whatever, I didn't start this thread. Everything I've said is true and I stand behind it. - Fri, 17 Sep 2010 5:57pm | ||
| Sati User Info... | I haven't read through this, but I think its reasonable to ask that users post under their real names or at least not hide your e-mail address when you're discussing things which affect peoples' businesses. Unless you're already known on the board. Posting under unconfirmed accounts won't work either - they won't be approved. It really just makes which ever side your taking look bad. - Sat, 18 Sep 2010 1:52pm Edited: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 1:54pm | ||
| steve User Info... | Berry berry.. quite contrary... Read the thread.. there hasn't been any or much bashing... and if you actually read the thread(s) you'll see it all stems from a polite notice to the bands that Jam there that their unreasonable levels are affecting a local business and the people it employs.. what other way does he have to get this out to the bands if the LTR 'management' wont?... post a sign on their door? c'mon now... Sounds like communication between Logans and LTR has been quite stifled and met with 'fuck yous' and ignorance.. which is defintely not the way to 'coexist without bashing one another' These LTR fan boys all seem a little to sensitive and quick to the defence... some see that as a sign of a guilty conscience. and Sati.. I dont think it really matters if someone 'hides' their email or posts under fake names.. if it gets nasty then they should be removed but thats what internet message boards seem to be about.. anonymity... Regardless of if you perceive it as a negative for whatever side their supporting. just my opinion. - Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:30am | ||
| Sammy C User Info... | This is one of those rare disputes where almost everybody involved seems to have something of valid point. At the end of the day though, I believe that Mr. Logan has truly all-but-exhausted his options, and that coming on this forum and appealing to bands that rehearse at LTR, especially given their reticence to do so, is a viable and laudable action as a responsible business owner. As for the gentleman that "has no sympathy" for Logans' servers, you sir are a disgrace, and have obviously never been a very good friend to anyone who works in the service industry. Their livelihood is structured around the expectation of tips, and when those dry up, their choice of career becomes unliveable. If you have no sympahty for that, then I guess you should stop eating out, because you don't deserve their fine service. Phew...that comment pissed me right off. Like so many others, I hope that both businesses come to a resolution, because I think they both have a lot to offer us bands in Victoria. From all accounts though, it does seem like LTR are the ones that need to step up and do their half of figuring this the fuck out. They're a studio first, rehearsal space second (or else that's what their promotion would suggest), and so the expectation of them getting their bands to reign in the volume is understandable. If you look at the other rehearsal spaces in town, all the ones I can think of have set up their business so that noise complaints aren't in issue. If they failed to do that, then that's on them. - Mon, 20 Sep 2010 11:15am | ||
| RW Beattie User Info... | well said Sammy. I appreciate your thoughtful sentiments. As an aside to this Berry gentleman. Most major browsers have a spell check built right in. As far as your run on sentences are concerned, I'm afraid you might be stuck with this bad grammar for the remainder of what will undoubtedly prove to be a highly stimulating life. Please don't have any children. Thanks. - Mon, 20 Sep 2010 7:14pm Edited: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 7:15pm | ||
| Colin P User Info... | I dont really care for this site. Lets discuss on my FB page. http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=230022920226 . - Tue, 21 Sep 2010 8:12am | ||
| steve User Info... |  Just wondering, but wouldnt it make more sense to discuss it in person with the parties involved.. like you and Chris could sit down over a pint in his lovely Pub and work out a solution that keeps you both in business. Honestly just seems like a pathetic ploy to get more people to like LTR on Fb.. .. .. . .. or get them to bash you on your page so you can show it to your high profile lawyer.. speaking of pathetic ploys.. you are all more than welcome to discuss it on Runway-Studios page.. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sidney-BC/Runway-Studios/370679812828?ref=ts - Tue, 21 Sep 2010 10:35am Edited: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 10:47am | ||
| RW Beattie User Info... | Steve, Chris HAS tried to sit down face to face and work things out. It's Colin's "This is my business and you can all fuck off" tact that seem to have halted that approach. He's literally had childish fits that I've been witness to. As far as a "high profile" lawyer is concerned, my response: laughter. Really Colin? You don't think the Logan's have lawyerS? There was an incident a few weeks ago where the police were phoned in all this. Colin arrived on the scene with his daddy to try and clear things up. Not exactly the strong willed man of business that is being so vehemently defended here. Chris has charted the option of clear mannered, reasonable compromise, only to be met with a snotty "fuck you, talk to my (daddy's) lawyer." - Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:39am Edited: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:45am | ||
| steve User Info... | well aware RW... meant a little tongue in cheek as all of a sudden ol'LTR wants to discuss things.. on their FB page. - Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:18pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | "I dont really care for this site. Lets discuss on my FB page." this means a)I would have to "like" your business and b)I would have to take the time out of my day to hit the "like" button. I have not done so for either Logan's NOR your establishment(however I am much more inclined to 'like' Logan's as they properly serve the music community; not just their best interests or that of their parents ;) ). Cheeky remarks deserve it right back. At the end of the day, as I said many times before... places like these come and go, but people will stick up for/help save places like Logan's... oddly enough lol :P *(somebody has to be the devils advocate :D) - Tue, 21 Sep 2010 10:36pm Edited: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 10:37pm | ||
| Rob.W User Info... | Colin has listened to Logan's... at this point, it's not an issue of people sitting down and talking face to face. This has happened in the past, and evidently failed to solve the issue to Chris's satisfaction. Once again, money has been spent upstairs to try and solve the issue (one that I have certainly failed to notice in my goings in and out of Logan's.) How this has turned into a completely one sided affair, I'm not entirely sure. However, I have lost a lot of respect for a number of people who have been trying to cash in on this unfortunate situation... Also, why would Colin discuss anything on a thread titled 'Lemontree Can Fuck Off'? Can anyone here answer that? Is it hard to understand why he would want to take this discussion somewhere else? I'm the devil's advocate, and I advocate using some common sense!! - Wed, 22 Sep 2010 6:48pm | ||
| CL User Info... | Hi Rob - I think the problem is that Colin's suggestion sounded (perhaps unfairly) like a ploy to get people to visit his Facebook page. I've actually already "liked" his page but have never posted anything there because, due to Colin's reluctance to engage in dialogue with me, I assumed he would delete it. He of course could always start another thread here, with a different title. For what it's worth, if there were a "Logan's Can Fuck Off Thread" (and there have been MANY posts and threads critical of us over the years,) I would be on there right away to see what the problem was and what could be done to fix it. - Wed, 22 Sep 2010 7:15pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | You are right; he shouldn't have to respond to THIS particular thread :) my bad(it's been a while since I had paid attention to the title of the thread). Anyhow, I dont think anyone is "cashing in" on this situation. Who's benefiting from spending money to do nothing and losing money doing nothing? Ie, LemonTree with all the "expenses" going into consults and actual sound proofing to costing the business below money and the business isn't even doing anything to deserve the drop in business. Granted, as I've said before, this may not be a great medium of communications between business'... it is, however, a community of musicians within our smallish scene. While we may not be ungodly rock hero's, we still appreciate what every business does to further our community. When 2 business as such, who both actively serve our community, are at odds; then sometimes people have opinions. I dont harbor any bad feelings for either business and, again as I've said before, hope they come to a fair resolve.*(the thing is, Im not what you would call a "logan's die hard", like alot of people here are... I like the place just like any other pub, no offence chris!! And appreciate what they bring to the music scene!). Moreover, I would be more sad to see a venue like Logan's close than another jam spot(even if there's lots of other venues, as there are studios... but the important part about the venues is being able to play your music for other people and having a good time, basically the reward for all your hard practice :D) - Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:38pm | ||
| steve User Info... | Rob, Hasn't Chris tried to take this conversation somewhere else? Has he not been met with 'fuck you's' and 'childish fits'? no money needs to be spent.. Colin just needs to do his job and monitor and control the level to which the bands there Jam at.. end of story! "If you rehearse at Lemon Tree Records, please realize that the "soundproofing" added to the floor has done little to reduce the noise level, especially the bass, downstairs at Logan's. Since bands have started rehearsing upstairs, our sales have plummeted, and despite constant efforts on our part to work out a solution with Colin, he simply refuses to ask bands to limit the volume. We're not saying don't practice, and we're not trying to shut LTR down - we're just asking people to show a little consideration and realize that when they practice at extreme volume, they are directly attacking one of Victoria's few remaining live venues. - Mon, 14 Jun 11:42am" -CL/Logans So fucking simple that its almost more embarrassing for LTR that they haven't understood that and taken action. And yeah.. I am trying to 'cash in on an unfortunate situation'... know why.. cause thats what smart businesses do. Have I lost your respect?.. maybe.. did I have it before? maybe.. do I care? no. Your bias towards LTR is quite evident given the bands you're associated with and your personal relationships. My bias is towards Logans, because their employees are loosing their living because of the actions of a douche bag manager who wont pony up, grow some and do his job. Common sense would dictate that instead of allowing this to get soooo carried away, Colin would have identified the issues and resolved them. Steve/Runway - Thu, 23 Sep 2010 11:23am Edited: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 11:29am | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | I'm guessing that Colin isn't from around these parts (like so many before him) and isn't terribly concerned with pissing off half of the local music scene. He will learn the error of his ways soon enough... - Wed, 29 Sep 2010 1:13pm | ||
| B.P. User Info... | Sorry to resurrect an old thread. Just wondering if this ever got worked out between LTR and Logan's. Haven't heard as many complaints so I'm guessing either yes or people decided it was a dead horse and stopped beating it. - Wed, 16 Mar 2011 9:22am | ||
| Steven Klipper User Info... | Heard that their rehearsal rates went up to $20/hr..... ... 60$ for a rehearsal space for 3 hours.. yikes! - Fri, 18 Mar 2011 9:19am Edited: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 9:21am | ||
| Jl User Info... | someone asked me if we practice at lemontree... i told them id rather drink turnip juice!(SHELBYVILLE 4 LIFE) - Fri, 18 Mar 2011 10:24am | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | I must be really lucky, the only times I've been at Logan's and I have yet to here the noise from Lemontree. Go figure... Gee, I wonder if Logan's can call in a noise complaint? As far as sound proofing, spray foam works, albeit this might screw up the acoustics in the studio. If the studio was built correctly then this wouldn't be an issue. Oh that's right, it wasn't a studio originally. - Mon, 28 Mar 2011 6:47pm Edited: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 6:51pm | ||
| Anonymous User Info... |  | ||
| Anonymous User Info... |  | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | Lemontree, they are no more?!? Actually I was just told that Lemontree is still in business, some martial arts place in the Logan's building isn't there anymore. - Sat, 30 Jul 2011 12:45am Edited: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 2:04pm | ||
| steve User Info... | . - Fri, 11 Nov 2011 4:58pm Edited: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 8:08pm | ||
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