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If you rehearse at Lemon Tree Records
| Message Board > General Chitchat > If you rehearse at Lemon Tree Records |
| CL User Info... | If you rehearse at Lemon Tree Records, please realize that the "soundproofing" added to the floor has done little to reduce the noise level, especially the bass, downstairs at Logan's. Since bands have started rehearsing upstairs, our sales have plummeted, and despite constant efforts on our part to work out a solution with Colin, he simply refuses to ask bands to limit the volume. We're not saying don't practice, and we're not trying to shut LTR down - we're just asking people to show a little consideration and realize that when they practice at extreme volume, they are directly attacking one of Victoria's few remaining live venues. - Mon, 14 Jun 2010 11:42am | ||
| Talk's Cheap User Info... | I'm an avid supporter of both businesses. Decent live venues and affordable practice spaces are essential to Victoria's music community. Hopefully a compromise can be reached. - Mon, 14 Jun 2010 12:47pm | ||
| Above the knee User Info... | Yeah this sounds like a pretty complex problem. I know that for some bands the volume is required otherwise you cant hear yourself over a hard hitting drummer... I can see both sides of the coin on this one and I'm not even sure what could be done to fix this. - Mon, 14 Jun 2010 1:21pm | ||
| Anchor User Info... | The "hard hitting drummer" is so old. A good band / drummer can control their volume. Buy the drummer some hot rods or blast sticks if he cannot control the dynamics. Get the drummer to layoff a little so everything else can come down. All that being said its hard not to rock out when you get a good vibe going. That being said sound proofing for bass is a very difficult task, and it seems like this is the heart of the matter. How about providing IEM's for the studio so bass could go direct out from the head to a monitor mix?, thus reducing in room volume? Maybe not, I don't know if that would work. Bass played even at low volumes is going to penetrate most wall/floor assemblies. Optimally, I would suggest building a floating floor structure on a dense rubber (ie. hockey pucks), to create a seperation between the two units. This could cost a lot, so it might not be feasible. Just food for thought. - Mon, 14 Jun 2010 1:43pm | ||
| Above the knee User Info... | I'm just going to put it out there that not everyone rehearsing there is a good band or has a good drummer haha. I do completely agree about the whole "vibe" though. Anyways, I don't jam there so its good to know I'm not part of the problem. Hope it gets worked out. - Mon, 14 Jun 2010 1:55pm | ||
| RobW. User Info... | I know for a fact that Colin has done everything he can to try and soundproof the space to maximum effect. A floating floor was recently put in, and double doors were installed on both jam rooms in the last week. This is an unfortunate issue for sure. I have been in Logan's when bands are jamming upstairs and I cannot hear any bass coming through, but its possible that there are louder bands that I have not listened for from downstairs. Also, CL I don't know if you run the facebook page for Logan's, but whoever does is slandering LTR and Colin, which is certainly not professional in the least. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Logan's, have seen many shows there and appreciate fully what you guys do for the Victoria music scene. - Mon, 14 Jun 2010 1:59pm | ||
| CL User Info... | Rob, I hear the word "professional" bandied about often by associates of LTR, but in this context it seems to have no meaning. To me, being "professional" means that I listen to the concerns of my customers, employees, and neighbors, and that when a legitimate problem caused by my business is pointed out, I fix it. I appreciate that a lot of money has been spent in and by LTR. Unfortunately, none of it has fixed the problem. Yesterday, during our Sunday Hootenanny, the bass being played in LTR rattled the light fixtures and made it impossible for the performers to hear themselves. When one of the performers went upstairs to politely ask Colin if the bass could be controlled, he was told nothing could be done. How, exactly, is this "professional?" As for your "slander" comment, LTR may have been insulted, but they certainly have not been slandered. - Mon, 14 Jun 2010 2:08pm | ||
| Anchor User Info... | It sounds like Colin has went the extra mile too work with the guys at Logan's. Good on him!! I hope that Logan's and LTR can solve this civily, and also that the bands practicing there are sensitive to this. Bands need to remember that if you piss off the venues you have next to no chance of getting a gig. Maybe send someone down when your practicing to check out the noise level below, and check in with the guys. I'm sure this would go along ways with Logans and also bolster your hopes of getting a gig there. - Mon, 14 Jun 2010 2:08pm Edited: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 2:12pm | ||
| CL User Info... | Anchor, that's an excellent suggestion! We understand bands aren't really at fault here - they're just trying to get what they paid for! Unfortunately, a rehearsal space on the second floor of a mixed commercial building is not an ideal situation. Many bands are just fine, but sometimes the noise is so loud we simply can't carry on business. We get complaints about it ALL THE TIME, and our sales show it. - Mon, 14 Jun 2010 2:26pm | ||
| steve User Info... | I heard of a nice Rehearsal Space without a venue underneath it.. as loud as you want! http://www.runway-studios.com - Mon, 14 Jun 2010 2:50pm Edited: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 2:50pm | ||
| Lucius User Info... | There is also the studios just a floor above it? Shit I rent there and I don't kow what they are called?? Eurostudios? Cheers, Lucius - Mon, 14 Jun 2010 3:32pm | ||
| Curmudgeon Rocker User Info... | In the squash courts next door I used to hear bass rumblings from above, about 15(?) years ago. How long has there been practice spaces above the bar? This execessive noise thing, then - is it quite recent, or has it sort of gradually gotten worse over the years? Yeah - bands should definitely be responsible and send down a sound scout. Not the kinda place my band could jam at. (yikes!) - Mon, 14 Jun 2010 6:41pm | ||
| CL User Info... | These spaces are new, CR, and they're directly over the bar. When it's loud it's fuckin' LOUD. I honestly think anyone who actually came down into the bar to hear it when it was really bad would understand our problem. No one involved with LTR has ever done this. - Mon, 14 Jun 2010 8:30pm | ||
| laprider User Info... | 1) I love Logans 2) we all need a place to practice But...I'm weighing in on this in this manner. I have certainly been affected by the new space above Logans during my Open Mic there, it's a pain. IT's hard to play the wreck of the edmund fitzgerald when all you can hear is Stevie Wonders "Superstitious" bassline thumpin over yer head. Now I am ALL for any available Jam Spot....so I am torn. I will make these two comments. 1) I think originally Lemon Tree was marketed as a Recording Studio and gradually became a rehearsal space ( I may be wrong) I don't think it really is a suitable "building" or space for a rehearsal spot...but the location is great, it's just not the right set up in that building. I always questioned how one would get around the noise and record there? Great idea, great location...wrong building I guess. 2) Jamming vs. Rehearsing....OK don't get me started, they are not the same...I see peeps loading in double stacks there, C'mon to rehearse, WTF, thats Jammin....I love playin, hell yeah, I love jamming....but if you are going to REHEARSE, do it quietly and actually try to work on stuff, and fix stuff, and improve stuff. getting together to run through your songs real loud is jamming, I think Jam spots are inherently a different beast then a place where someone might rehearse...just my thoughts. I hope this situation works out for all involved. - Mon, 14 Jun 2010 10:19pm | ||
| Mike S User Info... | But many bands who have a set or a handful of songs will usually warm up by playing through a few of those before rehearsing the new stuff and often will still run through the bulk of a set just to keep tight whether its rehearsal night or not. Either way 'jamming' on a full live set is the same as 'rehearsal' and should be done repeatedly to ensure tightness on stage. That being said, hard rock, metal or punk bands just dont practice quietly when there's an acoustic drum kit in the room. Its not really possible for most drummers of those genre's to suddenly turn down their volume or hit softer when they are blasting away at 200 bpm unless of course an electric kit is brought in. "Hey buddy can you do those heel toe double bass drum strokes about 30 dB quieter?" just isnt gonna happen on a 24" kick drum! Also look at most bigger tube amp heads, without a power soak your average Boogie, Marshall etc sounds like crap when the tubes arent getting nominal power to them. In my bands case we will rehearse most new songs at home via powertab or guitar pro, but aside from memorizing the structure this doesnt do much for the drummer who inevitably is going to have to spend a few sessions at the jamspot working out the song in full swing at full volume. I do agree about the double stacks thing though, pretty much no point unless you are playing outside or in an arena. But they look cool. The solution? Bring in full stacks and ampeg bass cabs to open mic ! hahah! Overpower the bastards! It works at our spot, we would have the Armchairs going full force below us, Zap Straps above, FourDefy across and for a while Fuck You Pigs next door.. talk about LOUD. You just gotta be louder~! Ok I guess thats not really a solution. - Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:34am Edited: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:38am | ||
| superslacks User Info... | Has LTR tried sound abatement (ie. floating) risers to decouple the drums and bass amps? I designed one for an attic space and it works like a hot damn. I'd be happy to advise the affected parties - if interested contact me off-list. - Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:41am | ||
| PJS User Info... |  | ||
| sumyungai User Info... | I remember this gawd awful venue in Whangarei, New Zealand that had this sinister looking grey box with a red police light on it mounted on the back wall. As it turned out, if you hit 95 db (A weighted) at the back wall the light would start strobing. If you sustained 98 db for greater than eight seconds the box would cut the power to the stage and the mains. Then you had to wait for the bar staff to find the key and reset it. Needless to say, the second time in that venue I came prepared with an axe and a set of tails to run into the distribution panel. Of course that was night someone tried to make off with my effects rack...(in the middle of a show...) Rock on, y'all. - Wed, 16 Jun 2010 4:49pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | Euro dog used to be upstairs as with other jam spots... its loud as hell below in the squash club; but I accept it as practicing.... and not to mention the bands that are sound checking and playing at Logan's are just as loud in the squash club. I dont see how an already pretty loud bar(logan's) is suffering so greatly from "bass". Or is the bar just going through a slow period? And, as most business owners would attest, times like those are hard... and the smallest thing will set you off. Looking at this objectively, Im pretty sure you guys can come to an agreement... its really not a hard concept*(MAYBE even taking the bass rigs off teh floor would be a starter?) - Thu, 17 Jun 2010 9:31am | ||
| CL User Info... | JDL, the thing is that Logan's is not always a "pretty loud bar." Yeah, from 10-1 Thurs-Sat we're pretty loud (usually) but we're open from 3PM Mon-Fri and 11AM Sat-Sun, and we HAVE to be, because we don't make enough money from shows alone to stay open. The noise from LTR isn't a big problem when Crown The Wolf is playing on Friday night. It's a HUGE problem when people going to the Vic Seals game stop by for dinner at 6PM on Tuesday. Not only do they leave, but they DON'T COME BACK, because they remember the racket from the first time. No one from LTR has ever come down into the pub to hear the noise when it's very loud. Not once. I can't speak for the Squash courts, but here's the story for us: my afternoon and evening staff are having their incomes decimated so that LTR can make $15 an hour renting rehearsal space. That's just not right. - Thu, 17 Jun 2010 12:46pm | ||
| steve User Info... | "...If you're tired of rehearsing in a garage, OR NEIGHBOURS COMPLAINING about noise - BOOK NOW " -LTR AD ironic. Colin, Step up man.. - Thu, 17 Jun 2010 1:24pm | ||
| Mike S User Info... | One could look at it like this: If Logans went broke and shut down, the already venue starved Victoria live music scene would crumble and die. Everyone would be struggling to book one of the 2 nights at Lucky, one night a week at Evo's or a few nights at the V Lounge or pony up the cash for Sugar. If LTR shut down, it wouldnt really change the scene. - Thu, 17 Jun 2010 2:23pm | ||
| Evangelium User Info... | "If Logans went broke and shut down, the already venue starved Victoria live music scene would crumble and die" Ridiculous statement. There was a local music scene long before Logans/Thursdays was around, and there will be long after they're gone. As for the L.T. VS Logans issue, sounds like an issue for the landlord. Unless Chris Logan honestly thinks he's going to come to some sort of a resolution on a message board? - Thu, 17 Jun 2010 2:55pm | ||
| CL User Info... | Hi Evangelium! You're absolutely right - it is an issue for the landlord and that angle is being rigorously pursued, however, while this drags on I am losing business every single day. As I said at the beginning, I posted here simply to ask bands to show some consideration, since LTR refuses to control the volume. If you honestly don't care at all what effect you have on our customers and staff, go ahead, wail away. I have to try and save my business any way I can. - Thu, 17 Jun 2010 3:04pm | ||
| RobW. User Info... | Logan's closing wouldn't be a good thing for the music scene, I don't know how it could be argued that it would be. That being said, if it goes broke, blaming it on some bass bleed from upstairs is quite a stretch. Turning a new business owner into a scapegoat for a bar who are having some troubles isn't fair. Bass amps are on risers, as are the drum sets. - Thu, 17 Jun 2010 3:05pm | ||
| CL User Info... | Hey Rob! You know what would be great? If someone involved with LTR could actually come downstairs when the noise is really bad. Then you would know what we're talking about. Because, yeah - the bass bins and the drums are on risers now but so what? Sometimes it's still too damn loud! We're not talking about "some bass bleed." We're talking about the light fixtures and glasses rattling. We're talking about people coming up and saying "Where is that noise coming from. Can't you do something?" and then leaving. We're talking about daytime sales plummeting since January. Why won't someone just come downstairs to hear it? My belief is that they KNOW the noise is too bad, and they don't want to face up to it. Well you know what? That attitude is irresponsible and shortsighted. It's going to fuck Logan's and it's going to fuck Lemon Tree Records. - Thu, 17 Jun 2010 3:12pm Edited: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 3:18pm | ||
| Mike S User Info... | Evangelium.. Tried to book a show in Victoria lately? Where you going to book a show if Logans shut down? You have 2 nights per week at Lucky who are already booking well into September, so you need to plan shows 5 months in advance, one night a week at Evo's which doesnt really count unless you like getting no pay at all and a few nights per week at V-Lounge IF they will let your band play there at all. After that we are left with a few costly choices like Sugar or Vic Event Center where you need to front $500-$800 to rent the venues, and then what? Maybe the Cambie for a few shows.. thats it aside from again shelling out the cash up front for all agers. Logans is the ONLY 7 day per week modern live music venue south of Nanaimo and is on the booking radar of bands from across Canada. Its closure would leave a huge hole in this scene. the local music scene before Logans actually had some other venues. Soundgarden, Central Bar & Grill, Icehouse, Steamers, Upstairs Cabaret or Harpo's. All gone. . - Thu, 17 Jun 2010 3:25pm Edited: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 3:27pm | ||
| sumyungai User Info... | Sounds like a pretty typical "I'm OK, fuck the rest of you" attitude. Good luck Chris. And you bands "rehearsing" at LTR, good luck finding gigs. - Thu, 17 Jun 2010 4:04pm | ||
| jonny B. swell User Info... | My band practices at LTR two nights a week. We're a loud band, like Mike S said, for some genres of music you can't lay back that much. We play just loud enough to be heard over the drummer (who isn't too much of a thunderbutt) For all the months we've been playing at LTR this is the first I've heard of noise complaints from Logans. So sumyungai, Im at fault here? Im shooting myself in the foot for practicing in a spot that I pay for? and no one has ever told me in person that volume is an issue. Now that I know, next time I'll come downstairs and have a listen. If we're audible, we'll try to fix it. I just hope that people realize the people that practice there might not even be aware there is an issue, like myself untill I read this page. - Thu, 17 Jun 2010 6:44pm | ||
| CL User Info... | Hey Jonny! It'd actually be FANTASTIC if loud bands would check downstairs, especially in the afternoon and early evening, to see how loud it is in the pub. Anyone who has played at Logan's knows we have an easygoing staff, and all we're looking for is peaceful coexistence. I used to have a lot of sympathy for LTR. I no longer give a shit what happens to them because they have willfully disregarded the welfare of my business and my staff. But I have no quarrel with the bands who were sold what they had to assume was worry-free rehearsal time. I'd be more than happy to work directly with the musicians who rehearse at LTR to ensure neither they nor we are inconvenienced by the other's noise. Then we could achieve the happy coexistence that should have happened from the start. - Thu, 17 Jun 2010 8:25pm | ||
| MC KNZ User Info... | CL,is this happening in the day or evenings or both..? And my band was going to pay for a spot there before Colin had it all set up(took longer then we expected to be finished) ......boy am I glad we never did, cuz we're fucking load. Sounds like someone isn't stepping up to do his part at mediating. There definitely should be some responsibility shown on the behalf of LTR ,or the bands themselves.Just send someone down when the bass guy is at what he plans on practicing at,and see what is what.Then there could be some troubleshooting to see (A)What band(s)is/are making it hard for busyness.(B)What can be done to make it less noisy. Could be, even with all the sound proofing that it just is a bad place to have bands practice/jam,one floor over a running establishment. And if it kills Logan's due to lack of communication then we all as music fans and musicians FAIL hard. - Thu, 17 Jun 2010 9:03pm | ||
| Evangelium User Info... | Mike, you honestly believe the future of the ENTIRE local music scene rests on the shoulders of one venue? That's silly. It's closure may, as you mention above, leave a hole. It would not, as you stated prior, cause the local music scene to crumble and die. - Thu, 17 Jun 2010 10:06pm | ||
| Mike S User Info... | Obviously I was being a little bit over descriptive. Most would get the general idea. - Thu, 17 Jun 2010 10:50pm Edited: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 10:51pm | ||
| Curmudgeon Rocker User Info... | The landlord should be aware that if a BAR can't thrive under a jam spot, a heck of a lot of other businesses wouldn't be able to, either. - Thu, 17 Jun 2010 11:04pm | ||
| sumyungai User Info... | Perhaps I worded that a little poorly, Johnny. What I would like to say is that now that you are aware of the problem I feel it is in your own interests (and those of the Vic. music scene in general) not to piss off/ screw over Logan's, and ensure as clients of LTR that they rectify this problem. Otherwise I would recommend a boycott. I know jam spaces are scarce enough in this city, but it seems straight forward enough that LTR are breaching their contract with you if their advertising states no complaints from neighbours. And I thoroughly agree with Mike. The loss of Harpo's, The Central (even if the soundman was a dink), Steamer's (soundcheck at Simon o'clock), and other rooms just since I've been in this town has had a huge impact on how much gigging I do in this town (ie. virtually zero). With the noise coming from above, I wouldn't even attempt to play Logan's (even though I love the room). - Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:39am | ||
| JDL User Info... | I still dont see how its the band's initiative to see that the neighbours aren't disturbed when they're paying for a space they dont maintain*(should you all be angry at the management of this place???)... and why should they feel sheepish about booking at Logan's? They are a fair establishment, just like any other. And our music scene does not depend on one sole venue, they come and go... its about time to accept that and move on. I've had no troubles gigging in this town with all the "closures"... Steamers was a pretty big hit to the scene, Upstairs(old Harpo's) stil books shows occasionally and as for central, MEH it was a venue for middle aged cover bands... aside from that, you still have a ton of venues depending on your style. That being said, I dont see this jam space affecting Logan's THAT much in the long run... lets be honest, the jam space above(you know as much as I do Chris) wont last forever... Euro dog didn't, the previous studio didn't... and it doesn't sound like this one's any different. - Fri, 18 Jun 2010 8:31am | ||
| CL User Info... | Hi JDL! Yeah, I'm not looking for a big sympathy vote here; I'm just trying to open whatever lines I can to the musicians' community, of which I think we've proven ourselves a valuable part. If you don't HAVE to fuck us up by driving our customers away, why WOULD you? You're allowed to make a lot of noise in your apartment before 10PM, but if your next door neighbour has a young baby or has to get up early for work or suffers from migraines, why WOULD you? I do think LTR will fail sooner rather than later, because it looks more like a kid's vanity project than a real business, but why should my staff lose their livelihoods while the landlord is brought to heel (which is happening, but slowly) and LTR flails away at their retarded "plan"? I appreciate the support from people on this thread, but I agree with others who point out that Logan's isn't sacred. I only ask that people take a few minutes to be a little community minded, and consider not fucking up a neighbour when they don't have to. - Fri, 18 Jun 2010 9:29am | ||
| Anchor User Info... | Now, I know this is a completely stupid idea, but what if during the peak times Logan's rents the studios just to have them sit empty. I'm sure that the loss of a single customer per hour would exceed $15. Like I said crazy idea. The landlord thing is going to start a flame war, every time LTR hears as much as a sound from below they'll be calling the whambulance. Hopefully both parties will find a way to work together. I'm sure most bands will be reasonable if they are aware of the issues. - Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:36am | ||
| CL User Info... | " I'm sure most bands will be reasonable if they are aware of the issues." Agreed! That's why I brought this issue to the board, just to let bands know about the situation. I have zero interest in flame wars or internet bitching: LiveVic is a good community tool, that's all. - Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:49am | ||
| JDL User Info... | hey chris... I understand what you mean, but its others here on this thread that, I think are missing the point... its NOT the bands fault that the space is inadequite for sound proofing, and that should not be held against them because of it. And nor should they feel "outcasted" if they practice there. It would be simple and easy for all, if LTR did not open during the day, there are certain times that Pro Jam isn't open(i dont know if that's to co-ordinate for noise/neighbours or what)... or Logan's booked that space out *(but that wouldn't be a total solution... LTR could simply bump them if they wanted, im sure). Getting back to a similar situation, right next door to logan's... try playing squash in a tournament with your bands being so loud I cant even hear my referee let alone my thoughts on court... OR having a large tournament there, with semi-pro athletes...*(i compete, but not for money) Any noise to distract these players could cost them money too as that's why they compete(for the money that is). However, I will not and never have complain(ed) about the noise(mostly b/c as a fellow musician, I never tell anyone to turn it down hehe). My point is, squash players could come to logan's in the evening and ask the volume get turned down, but we dont. Now, I also acknowledge it does not cut money out of the squash club's pocket; however the situation is similar.*(the squash club and logan's have both survived MANY tests of time, I remember Logan's as Thursdays!!! still call it that every now and again too when Im not paying attention) The building that these business's are in is horrible for sound proofing in general...try playing squash while the taiko drumming class goes on***(that also might be a contributing factor to the noise too ;) they practice in the late afternoon/early evenings but I think they rent on the otherside of the studio) - Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:52am | ||
| CL User Info... | Hi JDL! I had no idea noise was such a problem in the squash courts. Send me an email (getchrislogan AT gmail.com) if you'd like to discuss it further with me. It seems like we should be able to set up some sort of schedule with tournaments, at least, so we don't have soundcheck in the middle of a big game. Just let me know. As for any other noise problems, we can't really move much between 10-1 when we have bands on. It's the lifeblood of our business and it's a relatively small part of the day. At any other time, though, if it's just the stereo that's too loud, ANYONE can come down into the pub and ask to have it turned down. In the unlikely event the staff is uncooperative, contact me directly (I don't want to give my cell number out on this board for obvious reasons, but you can ask the staff to call me, or use the email I gave out above) and I will deal with the problem. - Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:10pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | Yo Chris, Its not a huge problem, like I said; I never complain about it cause I know its part of yours and the bands business... but I might suggest the club let you guys know when tournaments are on(though honestly, its also pretty noisey in the club while a big tourney is one)... I was just saying that you guys aren't alone in the noise problem with that building; and that you cant hold the bands responsible for the noise problem so much as dealing with it through the management*(ie, not here). Its shitty that they aren't playing ball, and you guys are being screwed over because of it. I think for their best interest in the community, it would be advisable to at least aknowledge there's a problem, though Im sure you guys will find a way around it... like I said, you've been there for a long time; you have a VERY loyal customer base... lemon tree records, may or may not be there next year or even the coming months. Bands will always practice where there is space to practice... you guys wouldn't hold it against any band that practices(ed) at LTR if they were interested in booking I hope? ps, most squashers kinda like the music when its playing... maybe some of the longer sound checks might be a bit distracting, but as I said; I would never complain because I fully understand your end and the musicians end of the stick too. good luck with the whole debaucle! (give squash a try some time if you haven't already!!!) - Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:33pm | ||
| CL User Info... | I've never seriously considered blacklisting bands for rehearsing at LTR. It's LTR and the landlord's fault. - Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:45pm | ||
| Curmudgeon Rocker User Info... | ok I'm calling a let point on that, Tom Ralph! would be nice to see this Colin chap offer some input on here - Fri, 18 Jun 2010 8:03pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | "LiveVic is a good community tool" Like a dependable rental dildo. - Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:30pm | ||
| MC KNZ User Info... | This comes from your experience with it...? LiveVic I mean.? Anyways........I think and hope people looking for a place to jam/practice,will consider the fact that they could be contributing to an on going problem ,and will look elsewhere for a space.Not saying people should do this,just that being in that situation(LTR renter)as a band would suck.And I know for myself ,I would diffidently be looking for somewhere ells.Since there is no hope in fixing the problem if LTR management will not even negotiate. I hope you all came work it out,good luck. - Sat, 19 Jun 2010 6:30am | ||
| Curmudgeon Rocker User Info... | good point, MC KNZ - I'd feel bad too, practicing there, knowing that our cacophony is making things really really shitty for down below. I wouldn't think twice about getting our band out of there. I also feel bad that Colin had to go to extra troubles for a floating floor and risers and such, but if it didn't help, then he should honestly suck it up, cut his losses, and set up LTR somewhere the fuck else. - Sat, 19 Jun 2010 7:01am | ||
| bbjones User Info... | some random comments from a long time local musician and rehearsal space owner... If my band was rehearsing at LTR and causing problems in the times that CL is talking about I'd move out. I would not continue to contribute to a problem that negatively affects such a vital part of our local music scene (Logan's) to the point CL has to post on message boards to be heard. Nor would I want to support the offending business (LTR) that seems to not give a shit. It's not like LTR is the only place in town to rent rehearsal time from. You cannot simply "put bass/drums on risers" and expect anything to change. Soundproofing at those noise levels is extremely expensive and very technical. Last year I found myself about to be in a similar situation LTR is in now. I leased a studio/jamspot in a building that was not set up for it and had existing tenants that I knew would not accept the noise level I was bringing in especially during the day. What did I do? I researched and designed the soundproofing solution for over a month, consulted with world class audio engineers and studio designers, and spent $5000 on materials alone (not including labour). And all that was for only 450 sq ft of studio space, and many materials were purchased used. Sounds to me like LTR grossly underestimated the noise impact on other tenants and did a piss poor job of soundproofing anything, if they did at all. To sum it up, I will continue to support Logan's any way I can. Anyone (including LTR if they are serious about finding a solution to this disaster) can email me if they want more info on proper soundproofing methods/materials. Otherwise, LTR can go fuck themselves for not even bothering to respond to this thread. - Sat, 19 Jun 2010 8:52am Edited: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 8:53am | ||
| Aidan Logins User Info... | I understand that there is a legitimate business concern here. But we have only heard one side of the story. I know Colin is a good person. I don't know Chris but I've heard only good things. Just because he doesn't want to come on a public message board to argue about his business practices and get into a pointless online war doesn't mean he's being an asshole about it. Many times I've been fooled into taking the wrong side in an argument (sometimes no side is the appropriate one) based one hearing one side of a story, only to find out later I've been acting like a douche because I didn't have all the information necessary to make a proper judgement. My point is, yes this is a problem and it's fine for Chris to bring it to a public music board to let the musicians know the problem to try to quickly rectify it with some of the louder bands. But everyone putting down LTR and saying things like "LTR can go fuck themselves for not even bothering to respond to this thread" should probably think twice before burning another bridge in the music community. There's a whole world outside of this thread, ie. the proper place to talk business. Hope you guys can work things out with different noise levels at different times somehow. - Sat, 19 Jun 2010 9:45am | ||
| BBJones User Info... | Eat my shorts, Aidan. My disdain for LTR is based on many comments by CL, whom I know and trust, about the lack of response/action/respect by Colin and LTR. So yes, they can go fuck themselves for their non-action. And we're not talking "business" here, we're stating opinions about a bullshit situation affecting a landmark in the local music scene. Fuck with that, and expect to get shit on. When I have noise issues in my studio, I ask the bands to play at lower volumes. Sometimes they can't even rehearse at their scheduled time if there is something big going on in the building. We all do our best and everyone tries to be as respectful as possible to the other pre-existing tenants. And the other tenants don't even have anything to do with the local music scene. Simple respect for your neighbors. No one is expecting Colin/LTR to start having an interweb e-peen war on this message board, but some acknowledgement would go a long way to Colin saving his bridges. Simply put, this should never have gone on long enough to end up with CL having to make a post about it here. Too late now... - Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:02am Edited: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:09am | ||
| You Enjoy Myself User Info... | Aidan, I don't necessarily agree that this is a "pointless online war", there's a lot of good ideas and offers of support being offered here. Colin's silence (at least on this forum) certainly isn't helping matters, I think he should pipe up and offer his side for everyone's consideration. I agree with BBjones: If I played at a band that practiced at LTR, I would begin looking for a new jamspot, pronto. Even though it's not the bands' fault, it's LTR's. And I agree with whoever said that the loss of Logan's would be a much bigger blow to the music scene than the loss of LTR. That's the bottom line here. Colin needs to realize that as a business owner, he has a responsibility to address the concerns of his neighbours, and it doesn't sound like he's doing that. Again, Colin could tell us his side of the story, but it appears as though he's content to let this matter fester until both businesses are in jeopardy. So c'mon Colin - speak up! Your silence implies culpability. - Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:18am | ||
| CL User Info... | Aidan, for the record, I'm not thrilled about bringing this this to a public messageboard, either, but the problem has been going on since January. Since LTR won't deal with it, I figured this was a good way to get the word out to the musicians, who probably had no idea what was going on. This is the last resort, not the first. - Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:26am Edited: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:28am | ||
| Curmudgeon Rocker User Info... | Hopefully the last comment addressed to Aidan: do you know Colin well enough to contact him and bring this thread to his attention? - Sat, 19 Jun 2010 12:49pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | Actually, LTR needs places like Logan's otherwise they themselves will lose business(ie, nowhere for bands to play = less and less bands needing to practice)... so really they're gunna be killing themselves no matter what they do. As was stated before, Logan's has a loyal following... No matter what happens up above them, and despite what goes on in the daytime, I know the nights are usually pretty busy or at least attended to by the regulars I've seen(while I go in and out of the squash club). If LTR decides to pipe in or not in this thread; probably wont change a thing... for all we know they think everyone below them are assholes? What about contacting the building owner? And filing a complaint that way? Surely they have to listen to their tenants needs(especially a tenant that's been there for 15+ years). Basically what Im trying to say in a few words is that Logan's will not be going anywhere any time soon, that I can assure you of... the likes of LTR I see studios come and go; its only a matter of time, if this is the way they conduct business. - Sat, 19 Jun 2010 1:15pm | ||
| RobW. User Info... | Just want to clarify something here: Colin has sat been in communication, face to face, with the people at Logan's. CL is making it sound like Colin refuses to hear him out. The fact is that I doubt the dialogue has changed much, despite on going efforts to fix the problem. Anyone who is flaming LTR, have you been in either of the rooms? These aren't closets with egg cartons on the wall. Have you done anything to your ceiling? If I was charging $8 for a mixed drink, and one band's bass was ruining an entire night of business, as I'm lead to believe, I would shell out the $20 bucks and rent the space upstairs. That's not ideal, but it would prevent someone's dad from coming on a message board and blindly suggesting a boycott. - Sat, 19 Jun 2010 1:58pm | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | The guys at LTR are fairly young,I believe.And I think we should not put all the blame on one person there, cuz I do think it's a collaborative venture,but I could be wrong on that.It could be there's lack of experience,in dealing with conflict. And would you wont to come on here and speak up, when people are against you? People have done that on here, and where dragged though the mud for it.But it's true...this has gotten to the point where,bands will eventually move out of LTR and no one will rent there.so...LTR dies, and logans lives on. - Sat, 19 Jun 2010 2:04pm | ||
| CL User Info... | Hi Rob! You're misguided, and I'll tell you why. 1. It's true LTR and Logan's have had sit-downs - I don't believe I ever said we didn't. The point is that the problem has not been fixed, and LTR won't address that. Ask anyone who was at the Hootenanny last Sunday: the light fixtures were shaking and the glasses on the bar rattling. TWO people on two separate occasions went upstairs to ask if the bass, and only the bass, could be turned down. They were told "No." Now, I don't care if you poured six feet of solid concrete on the floor as "soundproofing." Too loud is too loud. And all that needs to be done to fix it is to say "Hey, please turn down a bit, guys." There are already plenty of bands rehearsing that AREN'T too loud. So I just don`t see LTR`s point here. 2. Why should I have to do anything to my ceiling? I've been there for 13 years! And what exactly would you suggest? That I lower it? 3. You want me to pay LTR protection money? Or is it more in the form of a ransom? And when should I pay? Every day from 3-8? 4. It's actually $8.25, and it's for a triple. - Sat, 19 Jun 2010 2:28pm Edited: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 2:39pm | ||
| RobW. User Info... | I was just making some suggestions as to what YOU could do. A lot has been done on the other end to try and find a solution. It sucks that it hasn't worked, I'm sure Colin didn't want to spend that extra cash. It's hard to imagine that they haven't had some positive effect on the bleed. Has it done anything? I don't know what he's said to louder bands, so I can't comment on that end of it. I'm not affiliated with Lemon Tree, but I am friends with Colin, and I was disappointed to see only one side presented on here and facebook, so I thought I would throw my two cents in. For the record, noise gets through to the rooms upstairs from Logan's as well. I don't want to be a douche, I plan on coming to check out things from your end when my friend's band has a jam. They are loud as fuck, so I anticipate hearing a lot of bleed. Anyways, I can tell I'm not making any friends here, so I will not be posting until I have further scoped it out. - Sat, 19 Jun 2010 2:42pm | ||
| CL User Info... | Dude, I'm not trying to make enemies, either! Do me a favor: if you want to know the effect this has on my staff, ask any one of them. They're easygoing and will appreciate that someone affiliated (even unofficially) with LTR has taken an interest. - Sat, 19 Jun 2010 2:46pm | ||
| sumyungai User Info... | I'm someone's dad? - Sat, 19 Jun 2010 3:03pm | ||
| zippgunn User Info... | My 2 cents. Logan's is actually a very quiet neighborhood pub from opening till about 8 PM Monday to Saturday. The noise from directly over the bar is often so bad in the sfternoon that the stereo can't be heard at all and patrons have to shout above the din. In the kitchen everybody has to shout to be heard whe a band is playing. During shows I have had the occasional time when loud bass from the upstais corrupted some of the quieter shows that were occuring a floor and 60 feet away! That's loud folks. I find it interesting that the bands involved seem to be ignorant of the problem when the "business owner" seems to be very well informed indeed as to the problem. Kind of like he doesn't want the bands to know about it and possibly move. I was unaware that squash tounaments were conducted late at night. If the sound checks are interfereing we can always come to a solution to such a problem with a little communication. This is the first I've heard of any sound issues with the squash club in the decade or so I've done sound at Logan's - Sat, 19 Jun 2010 5:13pm | ||
| Curmudgeon Rocker User Info... | "somebody's dad" here again (no wonder you're not "making friends on here", Rob W?), concerned that as each day passes without this Colin dude attempting to explain his side of the story here, the more of an evasive fucking weasel he sure as shit looks, no getting around that. If two-way communication isn't going to resolve this, it can only get nastier, obviously, so, if you're reading this, Colin, let's get some cojones happening and pipe up before the tide REALLY starts to turn against you. - Sun, 20 Jun 2010 8:08am | ||
| superslacks User Info... | Isn't the floor/ceiling concrete? I'm amazed that this is such a problem (not that I'm doubting it). It sounds like there's a serious lack of decoupling - or is it traveling through the HVAC? It seems to me this situation requires more sound abatement and better communication (just to re-state the obvious), good on Logan's for bringing this to the forum. LTR's absence is very conspicuous, which I find strange considering their business clientele lives on this forum. Anyway, if LTR can't afford to bring in an actual acoustic engineer to help them manage this problem, I'm sure there are enough people in this community with the experience to offer constructive technical opinions of measures they can take. I was in one of their rooms several months ago, and I recall seeing acoustic treatments for sound deadening, but I don't recall risers for decoupling. Maybe things have changed, but it sounds like that'd make a huge difference. I'm sorry, but a laminate floor with heavy underlayment isn't going to make that big a difference at the SPL levels most bands work at. I also like the idea of a master breaker that kicks out when an SPL meter hits a certain threshold. I realize certain genres of music require drummers to hit at a certain level (and some drummers have that style), but in my experience bands get louder also because of ego competition. The bottom line is, if you try to take that volume to most stages the soundman will be turning you down big time - so in effect there's no point in rehearsing at that level. Back when Harpo's operated right above Rebecas's (a nice-ish restaurant) the two businesses managed to work it out. Harpo's scheduled extremely tight sound-checks and never had loud events during Rebeca's business hours. If LTR wants to stay in business they're gonna have to communicate. I don't see why LTR needs to book loud bands during times when Logan's is having quieter business hours. If LTR wanted to double as a recording studio, that would be ideal times for those purposes. Good luck guys! - Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:38am | ||
| Curmudgeon Rocker User Info... | I guess I'm not "making friends" myself by throwing around phrases like "evasive fucking weasel", possibly, so, Colin: we're actually very nice people, who can be reasoned with. Let us hear your "who", Horton! - Sun, 20 Jun 2010 12:05pm | ||
| B.P. User Info... | CL, just get the city involved. Sounds like they're already in violation of the noise bylaws, yes there are exceptions to the 10-11 mon-sat and 10-10 sun section of the bylaw(s). Following excerpt from the cities noise bylaws. Part 3 Types of Noise Prohibited noise Section 12, 1, subsection b the playing of any radio, phonograph, cassette or cd player, television, musical instrument or sound amplification device whether in or upon a private premises or public place at such a volume (loudness) as to disturb or tend to disturb the quiet, peace, rest, enjoyment, comfort or convenience of individuals or the public. - Sun, 20 Jun 2010 12:32pm | ||
| LTR User Info... | I would like to thank everyone for their replies / opinions & efforts to help resolve this issue for both sides. I would like to state that the issue of bass is not audible the majority of the time, however it is correct as stated by Chris Logan that the combination of a Very Loud bass player/amp in correlation with quite bar times.. allows certain bass notes to be audible. (no sound at all from the studio is heard outside the building - no bylaws) We have taken multiple meetings/ extra steps 100% at the expense of LTR to help resolve these issues. I have since sent Chris Logan an email yesterday stating that I would be happy to stay in contact with his staff and ask loud bands to turn down the bass to reasonable levels as needed during quite hours. It is our goal to help support the music community in any way we can which is why we have built a high end studio and kept the prices low. We plan on expanding our label this year and doing our part to promote amazing friends & victoria musicians / artists. Some information on our studio: -The entire build/ design, we worked with Pacific Audio Works for consulting - Each room features a room within a room construction for air space/soundproofing -special drywall used in the construction ("Surpress") - similar to quite rock -we dropped the ceiling (drywall) -all walls were built with specific angles to help eliminate standing waves -each room has double doors (airspace) -below the floors during our initial construction we laid extra insulation between the joyce for added insulation -hardwood floors Since the issues brought up by Logans. We hired a different audio consulting company for the floor. "Acoustics West" Floor: We added two separate acoustic layers (over our existing maple hardwood/insulation between the floors.) -this is done in order to decouple the entire floor -over top of this we laid carpet (hardwood still in the lounge/lobby) -Bass Risers for amps consisting of: drywall, rubber, insulation, plywood) 3 layers of each -extra acoustic panels for bass absorption -Double Doors Thank You, Colin Piazza, Lemon Tree Records. - Sun, 20 Jun 2010 2:52pm Edited: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 2:53pm | ||
| sumyungai User Info... | Translation: Quite= Quiet :p - Sun, 20 Jun 2010 2:55pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | Scott, as for the squash club; sound checks(last I checked) happen "usually" between 6-730 and last about 30 minutes. Matches start for a tournament wednesday at 530pm and run till about 10pm for the busy tourneys. Theres been no complaints because we really have no problems with the noise*(aside from maaayyyybe a few); I was simply letting you guys know that you aren't the only one's dealing with noise problems in an already dated building. Try playing a match with the Taiko drumming club going; now that's some serious rumbling lol. I've heard some of the better players(those who compete for the $$) complain a little but nothing really to the effect of them coming over and telling you guys to turn it down. It is what it is; and that's just the way life goes some times... at the end of the day, we're all just playin the game!! - Sun, 20 Jun 2010 3:47pm | ||
| bbjones User Info... | Colin, good on you to reply with info. Seems like you've taken respectable measures on the construction side of things. The solution to this seems dead simple. Control your bands. 13 year old neighbor complains about noise level. You tell (not ask) offending band to permanently reduce their levels. Band complies, all is good. Band refused, band is evicted, you get another client. Why is there still a problem? I must be missing something because this is retardedly simple to resolve. - Mon, 21 Jun 2010 8:10am | ||
| CL User Info... | "Why is there still a problem? I must be missing something because this is retardedly simple to resolve." I think you pretty much answered your own question in your post, bb! You're not missing anything. Thanks to all who posted for your input and ideas. A problem is also an opportunity, and with better communication Logan's, LTR, and local musicians should be able to work it out. - Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:36am | ||
| Ian Johnson User Info... | none of this is gonna matter in 2012 anyways...... - Mon, 21 Jun 2010 7:08pm | ||
| PJS User Info... |  no neighbors to bother! open 24/7 http://www.projamspaces.com [email protected] ph/text: 1.250.514.5049 - Mon, 21 Jun 2010 7:18pm Edited: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 7:21pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Yes, we saw your ad further up the page already, thx. - Mon, 21 Jun 2010 8:33pm | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | "none of this is gonna matter in 2012 anyways" LOL...what a fuck stupid statement.Yup everything's going to go haywire.The Earth will crack and the sea's will boil.The sun will be producing more and more solar flares and sunspots.The devil and the Antichrist will rain supreme. This is all according to retarded ,religious doomsday fanatics. If we could just get rid of them...this will never happen.lol Fucking people are stupid to think stuff like this.Get a brain. - Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:30pm | ||
| Warren Peice User Info... | I love it when Rimlord calls people stupid - Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:56pm | ||
| Aidan Logins User Info... | ""none of this is gonna matter in 2012 anyways"" I think he was joking. At least I assumed he was and I laughed. If it's a joke then it's a pretty funny one. - Tue, 22 Jun 2010 3:14pm | ||
| sumyungai User Info... | I thought it was pretty funny... no? - Tue, 22 Jun 2010 9:15pm | ||
| CL User Info... | Well, I hate to do this but I'm at my wits' end. Things got better there for a while, but Colin is openly refusing to compromise with us about the noise, and it's getting worse every day. I'm not trying to start a war, I'm just asking musicians as a favor to please try and control the noise when they practice at Lemon Tree, especially between 4 and 8. The noise downstairs is brutal. If anyone wants to talk to me about it in person (and maybe hear what it's like!) just email me directly at getchrislogan AT gmail.com and we can arrange a meeting. - Fri, 27 Aug 2010 5:07pm | ||
| steve User Info... | NEW SPECIAL PROMOTION AT RUNWAY-STUDIOS. Contact me for information on our special discount for the hours between 4 and 8pm. [email protected] - Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:02am | ||
| Curmudgeon Rocker User Info... | how exactly is Colin refusing to openly compromise? not returning voicemails? can't be convinced of amount of noise coming down below? I reread Colin's post and thought wow what a drag investing in all that soundproofing stuff, with evidently shitty results, potentially jeopardizing business for a vital Vic music venue that WAS there before LTR. - Sat, 28 Aug 2010 8:22pm Edited: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 8:28pm | ||
| CL User Info... | For a while we had an arrangement that when the noise was extreme we'd call him & he'd ask 'em to reign it in. He was also supposedly letting people know about the problem beforehand. He's now refusing to take our calls and not telling people about the fact that it can get very loud downstairs. Yesterday I was talking to a friend who rehearses upstairs. He told me that he figured it must be okay with us because Colin hadn't said anything about it. The obvious implication was that if he HAD known how loud it was he would've turned down, or rehearsed elsewhere. I don't think too many musicians knowingly want to fuck us up. I like to believe most people want to be good neighbours, part of a musical community. - Sat, 28 Aug 2010 8:44pm | ||
| Curmudgeon Rocker User Info... | Is it one particular night/band that this is happening? - Tue, 31 Aug 2010 7:16am | ||
| CL User Info... | It varies, but Saturday & Sunday afternoons are consistent problems. - Tue, 31 Aug 2010 8:33am | ||
| laprider User Info... | hmmm...really wanted to stay nuetral here. I have stated, I obviously have a "working" relationship with Logans hosting an Open Mic there.I also have empathy for someone who puts "cash" into a business, let alone one targeting musicians and filling a need. I still and will always question the choice of building as a rehearsal spot...being I am 99.9% sure it is a wood frame structure, that is serious $$$ to "really soundproof" I have watched the attendance and amount of players slowly drop on Mondays since this all began. Now it could be numerous things, but I have been asking and do hear complaints often. The biggest issue is the volume of patrons in the bar has gone way up to get over the low end coming out of the ceiling and every piece of ventelation in the bar. so... lets see 52 weeks a year = 52 paid gigs for me at Logans every year, do the math, that accounts for thousands of dollars of my yearly income....suck to lose that!!! so... I offer a solution, please Colin contact me. As Scott doesn't need them...I placed 4 custom built high quality risers outside of Logans a bit back. These were built for a local theater but left over. They are brand new and were built by scenic carpenters and painted by a scenic painter. Proper theater black paint with a nice subtle overlay breakup. They are easily put together and you could get a nice size drum riser and an amp riser out of whats there. AS a bonus they are designed in a way they could be filled with sand to help with some absorption and great defraction! I would on my time, help you install them and set them up properly.THats about a grand of free stuff....why? i got ahead in the biz on there are no problems, just solutions...but moreso...I don't want to lose my open mic anyone that knows Colin, please send him this offer. - Tue, 31 Aug 2010 9:27am | ||
| Curmudgeon Rocker User Info... |  | ||
| RobW. User Info... | hey laprider, that's a generous offer, I will let colin know. However, there are already some risers in both rooms, so I'm not sure if he will take you up on that. - Tue, 31 Aug 2010 3:38pm | ||
| steve User Info... | If Colin turns it down drop me a line... info at runway-studios dot com - Tue, 31 Aug 2010 4:09pm | ||
| MP User Info... | Sounds like Logans should file a lawsuit for loss of income since they were there first. - Thu, 2 Sep 2010 5:37pm | ||
| Curmudgeon Rocker User Info... | If Colin is still not taking your calls, the more cause for concern there is if it continues in this vein, methinks. hope it goes well today there - Sat, 4 Sep 2010 3:02pm | ||
| JDL User Info... | If they're still using the same risers as the previous studio, use the one's lap's GIVING YOU FOR FREE... they work 100% better than just simple plywood put together with some blankets in them or whatever it was. Sand filled boxes will help deaden the sound going downstairs, I think at least. And he's willing to give you free service for all this... take it up even if you dont use it!!!!!!!!!!! jeez, lapr. I live in an apt. on oak bay ave, i needs soundproofing too plz :P!!! - Mon, 6 Sep 2010 11:30am | ||
| steve User Info... | Thanks to Laprider for the risers.. they'll be a great addition to the studio space here. Now just have to move those behemoths. steve/runway-studios - Tue, 7 Sep 2010 9:07am | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | LT fail = RWS win... - Tue, 7 Sep 2010 1:01pm | ||
| steve User Info... | Smartest thing i've seen you post there Grim. Well besides a few cigarette butts hiding in the corners and a bit of moisture the risers are fantastic.. Moved em out this morning (with a buddy and a f-350) after trying to do it by myself with a ford ranger.. oh yeah.. TED LEO at logans tonight!!!! - Tue, 7 Sep 2010 1:41pm Edited: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 1:42pm | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | If they spray foamed the floor in the studio, would it deaden any sound that Logan's hears? How hollow is the floor/ceiling? - Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:35pm | ||
| CL User Info... | Griphin - there ain't nothin' between their floor and our ceiling. Nada. Zilch. - Sat, 11 Sep 2010 8:42pm | ||
| PRO JAM SPACES User Info... | PLAY AS LOUD AS YOU WANT 24/7 at PRO JAM SPACES Rehearsal Studios for more info: http://www.projamspaces.com - Mon, 13 Sep 2010 4:52pm Edited: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 4:53pm | ||
| Evangelium User Info... | You are a leech. - Mon, 13 Sep 2010 5:55pm | ||
| PJS User Info... | qui moi ? :-) - Mon, 13 Sep 2010 6:33pm Edited: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 6:33pm | ||
| steve User Info... | oh oh.. me too.. me too! Ruwnay-Studios.. Clean, comfortable and creative.. website is in shambles.. http://www.runway-studios.com or email me at info at runway-studios dot com - Fri, 17 Sep 2010 11:16am | ||
| PJS User Info... |  isn't that right off our PJS poster, steve? oh yeah, not quite....our poster says, "clean + comfortable = creative". LOL ps: we're all leeches, aren't we? our website works just fine: http://www.projamspaces.com up-to-date online schedule: http://www.projamspaces.com/schedule.htm at PRO JAM SPACES, you can play as LOUD as you want...24/7 y'all have a nice day! :-) - Fri, 17 Sep 2010 5:01pm Edited: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 5:09pm | ||
| _Griphin_ User Info... | CL writes... >> Griphin - there ain't nothin' between their floor and our ceiling. Nada. Zilch. What I mean is, they build a fake floor (about an inch to two inches in dimension) and in the pocket/space in between the fake floor and legit floor they use spray foam to fill in the gap. Although this might not be 100% sound proof, it should muffle the bass/low end. Of course, somehow I doubt Lemon Tree wants to spend any money to fix the problem. Of course, what the hell do I know? - Sat, 18 Sep 2010 11:59am | ||
| steve User Info... | ohhhh... you noticed.. ... Darn.. gonna have to change it to 'Dingy, awkward and stiffling'.... Griph.. read this above.. sounds like steps have been takin... but its just not cutting it... when in fact all it would take would be for someone to ask the bass/band to turn down to a resasonable level.. From the horses mouth... "Some information on our studio: -The entire build/ design, we worked with Pacific Audio Works for consulting - Each room features a room within a room construction for air space/soundproofing -special drywall used in the construction ("Surpress") - similar to quite rock -we dropped the ceiling (drywall) -all walls were built with specific angles to help eliminate standing waves -each room has double doors (airspace) -below the floors during our initial construction we laid extra insulation between the joyce for added insulation -hardwood floors Since the issues brought up by Logans. We hired a different audio consulting company for the floor. "Acoustics West" Floor: We added two separate acoustic layers (over our existing maple hardwood/insulation between the floors.) -this is done in order to decouple the entire floor -over top of this we laid carpet (hardwood still in the lounge/lobby) -Bass Risers for amps consisting of: drywall, rubber, insulation, plywood) 3 layers of each -extra acoustic panels for bass absorption -Double Doors" -LTR "management" - Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:19am | ||
| zippgunn User Info... | Saturday night the band upstairs was so loud you couldn't hear the band that was onstage if you were standing by the bar. All the "soundproofing" at LTR seems to be in the walls not in the floors, certainly it is still all but useless in keeping the sound out of the bar and kitchen areas of Logan's. Question: why is it called Lemon Tree RECORDS when it should be more like Lemon Tree REHEARSAL SPACE? My guess is that the landlord wouldn't have taken this outfit on with the latter name. Or is it also some sort of record label/ recording studio? - Mon, 20 Sep 2010 6:28pm | ||
| Curmudgeon Rocker User Info... | so - with these shenanigans still going on - is there ANY line of communication between Chris and Colin? - Mon, 20 Sep 2010 7:34pm | ||
| Curmudgeon Rocker User Info... | and yeah - I wondered about the "Records" thing too. - Mon, 20 Sep 2010 8:26pm | ||
| steve User Info... |  I would suggest (based on my experiences with Runway-Studios lately) that the owner of LTR had full intentions of owning and operating a successful recording studio. Eventually though he came to the realization that in todays 'Modern Recording Environment' and in our beautiful City a new recording studio is a tough and expensive business to operate and be succesful. So the switch to the rehearsal space was made to make it work financially. Slowly but surely I am finding that 'word of mouth' is drawing enough projects in that one day soon I should be able to exist without 'needing' rehearsal revenue. That will be a happy day. My situation is quite different from LTR's and I would in no way suggest that my business practices are better or worse than anyone else. My guess is that LTR had two choices. Cut their losses and close up shop or start whoring the space out for rehearsal income. - Mon, 20 Sep 2010 9:56pm Edited: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 11:09pm | ||
| CL User Info... | Hey C. Rocker! Colin did send me an email the other day to tell me he'd "hired the services of a top lawyer in Victoria." I guess that's a start! Actually, I just don't think he gives a flying fuck what effect the noise has on my customers or staff. It's an appalling lack of consideration for other people, and I hope he reaps everything his abject lack of responsibility deserves. - Mon, 20 Sep 2010 11:16pm | ||
| Curmudgeon Rocker User Info... | Well, I'm sorry to hear, then, that Colin apparently seems to be a F-U-C-K-I-N-G D-O-U-C-H-E. Anyone who plays hardball rather than co-operating will "get his". What does he hope to get from this? Sure sucks that he evidently doesn't give a flying turtle's fuck about an important music venue - he's certainly not being exactly the most "musical community-minded", for lack of a better way of putting it. - Tue, 21 Sep 2010 7:29am | ||
| inhalien User Info... | For the folks that are repeatedly posting their own rehearsal spaces in this thread, I just want you to know we have in fact noticed. We get it. You're desperate for business, understood. But can you stop hijacking this thread that is dealing with a particular issue. Go post all night long in Resources and please leave this thread to the issue at hand. - Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:00pm | ||
| steve User Info... | ... not desperate at all.. and I do believe that in and amongst my occasional mentioning of my rehearsal space (offering an alternative/solution) that I have been active in the discussions, ideas and topics covered by this thread. maybe you were referring to some other rehearsal space... - Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:16pm | ||
| Hit It And Quit User Info... | I don't mind the other rehearsal spaces posting here, in fact maybe Logan's should actively promote these other options at the venue. A poster on the front door of Logan's would be seen by every person going into LemonTree. If things have gotten ugly aready, what do you have to lose . . . . - Tue, 21 Sep 2010 1:34pm | ||
| Trevcore User Info... | Why doesn't Logan's just say, "fuck em", and move over to Vic West, and stay open until two am. - Tue, 21 Sep 2010 8:25pm | ||
| ::Saint:: User Info... | People are funny. Especially musicians. I hear so many local musicians bitch and moan about the lack of good rehearsal space in Victoria, and now we're bitching about Rick and Steve advertising their (very relevant) services. Hell, even if it is simply because they want more business, who cares? Both Rick and Steve run quality operations and have nice spaces at their disposal, why SHOULDN'T they mention this fact -- with any luck the bands who are directly creating the noise above Logan's will be inspired to move to a better managed and more conscientiously located rehearsal space. - Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:53pm | ||
| Curmudgeon Rocker User Info... | this comment from Saint was such music to my ears that it ABSOLUTELY warranted reiteration: "with any luck the bands who are directly creating the noise above Logan's will be inspired to move to a better managed and more conscientiously located rehearsal space." a-fucking-men especially the Saturday bands, from the sounds of things.... do they know? do they give a shit? - Wed, 22 Sep 2010 7:32am | ||
| CL User Info... | Hey all! I've started a Facebook group to help spread awareness of this issue and get honest opinions about how to fix it. It's an open group, and I've invited Colin from Lemon Tree to join and invite anyone he wants. The group is here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=101108873290218 It'd be great to have a diversity of voices there so we can get to a mutually satisfying result. I'm posting this to all kinds of threads - sorry for the spam, but I think it's justified in this case. - Wed, 6 Oct 2010 12:48pm | ||
| sumyungai User Info... | About three or four months ago I saw a decommissioned elementary school in Saanich being leased for $5000 per month, and I recall thinking that it would make an incredible performing arts centre, with a potential for a large number of rehearsal spaces, a performance space, audio/video studios, etc. etc. I sadly am a long way off from the kind of capital it would require to make a place like that work (and am probably a little shy in the management skills also), so I'm throwing it out there for anyone who could make it work (eleven or twelve or more full time rehearsal rooms, venue space (underage shows?), audio/ video suites?). Sadly, with all the money that Colin has reportedly spent trying to make LTR work in town there, he probably could have made a real go of it in Saanich. Or maybe not. - Wed, 6 Oct 2010 6:16pm | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | 5000 per month is cheep.....for how many square feet?? Wow ...I've been dreaming of something like this..If people just got together ,we could all make it happen.I'll through in the first $100.If this happens ,we should name it after this site......LiveVic performing arts center ,kind of rolls of the tongue. - Wed, 6 Oct 2010 7:08pm Edited: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 7:12pm | ||
| steve User Info... | There's a potentially fantastic building in the rock bay area for sale.. 3000+sq ft .. two levels, concrete floors.. bathroom on each floor.. parking. natural light.. cut it up the downstairs and put in rehearsal rooms.. upstairs put in a studio space... Bam! $650k ... - Wed, 6 Oct 2010 9:09pm | ||
| Uncle Twodog User Info... | The Grimlord is going to have to start charging for blowies. - Wed, 6 Oct 2010 9:12pm | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | Who the fuck is the grimlord.... That's all.....I was way off.....I was thinking more like 2mill...ahhhh It's not like every musician and such would all come together and show some solidarity and maybe form a legitimate foundation as a charity for people around the world to contribute too.....But I get way ahead of myself when it comes to this idea.It's been in my head for at least a year. I have all the ambition, but no direction .just don't know where to start. - Wed, 6 Oct 2010 11:08pm | ||
| Codine Vandal User Info... | a bath might be a good place :) - Thu, 7 Oct 2010 12:29am | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | I have a home so...I am one of the cleanest mo fo's there is. - Thu, 7 Oct 2010 10:08am | ||
| SIckOfThis User Info... | **EDITED - to be short and sweet** the end-all-be-all of the causes of Logans not doing well, maybe a change of plans is in order? Why not turn both places in to an artists community type project where local musicians can have an all-in-one block of a venue, a music store (up the street) and a rehersalspace/promotions/photo/recording company? Instead of this being the "downfall of the scene, why not make it the catalyst? A place to foster the unique talent in this city and help it grow? ...why not turn the situation to your advantage and start pushing Logans as THE place for artists and musicians to gather? Make it the new music hotspot, god knows we're lacking one in this town. - Fri, 15 Oct 2010 2:32pm Edited: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 3:02pm | ||
| MC -K.N.Z. User Info... | Sounds like an LTR ass kisser to me..... And anyone who has anything to do with performing live has played logans ,it's a great place for musicians to get there music heard an a fairly regular basis.And has been for years...well lets say,it's been here since Colin was still asking his mom to keep the light on in the hall for him. And It's hard to keep a positive outlook on this when the real problem is communication and the lack there of on the part of ltr management.I could be wrong...since there is no input on this from ltr, it is hard to determine if in fact it is resolved.But apparently it's not.... Just some anonymous poster ,telling us all to keep the dream alive and support the music scene.Well most of us do that already.It's been said before and I'll say it again...If Logans dies...someone is going down with it....But expect the worst to happen before it gets that far...Like bands dropping LTR...and burnt bridges...remember we live on an island. - Fri, 15 Oct 2010 4:35pm | ||
| CL User Info... | SickOfThis - that's an interesting idea, and certainly worth a thought. It's also a huge business proposition, and not something that could be done overnight. I have three partners and 30 employees to think about (including the LRS,) so you can see the commitment that would take. Still - I like the way you think! To be perfectly frank, my experience with Lemon Tree Records has not been a good one, and it would be very difficult to convince me to go into business with them. Although they seemingly have good relations with their clients, their treatment of people who are not renting time from them is extremely poor - I would never associate myself with it. - Fri, 15 Oct 2010 4:50pm | ||
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