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| FANGU User Info... | http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/08/10/hk.store.ap/index.html - Mon, 11 Aug 2003 3:11pm | ||
| Pooetry User Info... | What the fuckin shit! - Mon, 11 Aug 2003 3:20pm | ||
| Gwy-lo User Info... | wow. Talk about ballsy. ...or just.. "misinformed"?? - Mon, 11 Aug 2003 4:25pm | ||
| Shawn User Info... | Wow. And I thought Americans were stupid. - Tue, 12 Aug 2003 9:47am | ||
| Charles the Clown User Info... | Hey I'm proud of my German heritage. The swastika is a peace symbol. And WTF are jews doing telling Chinese what to do? And you thought the americans were stupid? haha, I wish they truly were. - Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:10am | ||
| pooetry User Info... | A peace symbol. I don't know where the hell you've been since the 1940's, but everyone else in the entire world seems to think it's a symbol of hate. - Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:24am | ||
| some girl... User Info... | sooooooo, if the Chinese are allowed to wear Nazi logos are we allowed to wear t-shirts with images from the Rape of Nanking??? This is just pure stupidity. I can't believe that Hong Kong is refusing to take the displays down just b/c "they need a replacement first." - Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:31am | ||
| METALHEAD!% User Info... | The swastika is a peace symbol. It was used by countless cultures over thousands of years to represent peace. That is why the Nazi party chose it as their symbol. Propagada. But its true meaning was destroyed by Hitler and his government and it deffinately was a bad call to use it, especially with Hitlers face. - Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:41am | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | Yes well the swastika peace symbol is usually backwards to the Nazi one, and this store actually is using Nazi German imagery. I find it equally offensive when I see a Confederate flag, like on my brainless neighbor's truck mud flaps. To any black person the Confederate flag is about as offensive as a swastika is to, say, a Jewish person, but you never hear anyone complain about that. - Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:09pm | ||
| some girl... User Info... | It's all about the context that the swastika is used in. An eagle perched on a swastika is not the same thing as a painting with a swastika imprinted on budha's belly. Yeeeeeashh, the end is nigh. - Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:15pm | ||
| SentencedtoBurn User Info... | I thought that the swastika was initially used as a Mayan symbol for purity. But don't quote me boy, cause i ain't said shit. - Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:23pm | ||
| Shaggy User Info... | The Swastika's used by the nazi's are not the same symbols used in ancient cultures. The nazi version has the bent portions of the "cross" facing the opposite direction as the original. The version displayed on the asian merchandise is the nazi version. Hitler, being involved in the occult, probably twisted it as a sygil of power. - Tue, 12 Aug 2003 2:29pm | ||
| METALHEAD!% User Info... | WELL, since I like to argue almost as much as I like drinking copious amounts of alcamahol... The true swastika is this +. yup it is the plus sign, cross, etc. All other swastikas are variations of the plus sign. So, yeah, does coke slurpees make for a good combo with bacardi silver? If you don't know the answer I will inform you later cause I am gonna try it. - Tue, 12 Aug 2003 6:14pm | ||
| METALHEAD!% User Info... | I have a head ache, dont try it..... ugh. - Wed, 13 Aug 2003 2:34am | ||
| Gene Vachon User Info... | The swastika is an African cross.Believe it or not.I,m sure its tribal.Thats its origin.Trust me...I,m pretty sure,....cause knowing you comedians I,ll get hammered with insults if I was wrong...lol.peace,cheers. - Wed, 13 Aug 2003 2:53am | ||
| pooetry User Info... | Either way, sporting the swastika isn't really good for business. I don't think selling shirts with Hilter on them would be good either, which is another thing the clothing store sells. - Wed, 13 Aug 2003 8:45am | ||
| Shawn User Info... | Its like selling shirts with pictures of abortions on them at a church bazaar. It's just as bad, not to mention ridiculous. (This post alone will offend someone . . . or make them laugh) - Wed, 13 Aug 2003 9:46am | ||
| ballz andy User Info... | who knows maybe when the isralies are done with the palastinians the star of david will end up a symbol of hate like the swastika....hmmmm............whatever - Thu, 14 Aug 2003 1:42am | ||
| Charles the Clown User Info... | I didn't know Jews were telling Chinese what they can or can't do in China. Seems like Jews get offended really easily. It's been a long time since WW2, about time they git over it! - Fri, 15 Aug 2003 9:41pm | ||
| micoll User Info... | you are an asshole. given i'm missing a bit of irony, but there are Holocaust survivors still alive and you want them to "git over it"??? also, whatever the origins of the swastika, its meaning will forever be associated with the nazis and their horrible crimes. - Sat, 16 Aug 2003 12:49am | ||
| Charles the Clown User Info... | Please forgive me for being so insensitive to the survivors of the Holocaust. The only point I was making is how Jewish people seem to have some sort of power over anyone and anywhere when it comes to anything potentially anti-semetic. - Sat, 16 Aug 2003 1:53am | ||
| Anonymous User Info... | it's the same with those fucking 'native americans'. they should just stop their bitching and just be happy drinking their listerine and eating their smoked salmon. seriously, how many years has it been? give it a fucking rest. - Sat, 16 Aug 2003 3:31am | ||
| Shawn User Info... | Looks like we have our own Nazi on this thread. - Sat, 16 Aug 2003 3:55am | ||
| dan conner User Info... | Thank you Anon! Fuck these reserves! They are looked after by by Human Rescources, arn't they? Eitehr way, they are not a resource, they are a LIABILITY. Honestly, the native peoples want to be "treated as equals". so STOP BITCHING FOR STUFF! The government spends WAY to much on natives and their wants. They can practically govern themselves, but bitch at out government for stuff. NO! your people don't deserve it! If you deserve it, then the blacks, the jews, the asians, and everyone who was EVER discriminated against (or had relatives, or the "same" kinda people discriminated against) deserve billions of dollars of free crap. Then, after all that, WHO is left behind? Who has to work, when all the otehrs don't? White people... But then that right there is racist, and discriminative, so they get free stuff too... So EVERYONE gets free stuff. does that make sense? no. So, IMO, Jsut treat everyone the same, and jsut let go of the grudge you have, because of happend to your great great grandaddy. It is doing nothing but ruin the economy. Yeah, thats my rant. Anyways, They also had some christmas crackers with little toy bears inside last xmas... It had a swastika and what looked to be a military salute. It turns out, that the chinese guys who made them, just put a waving panda with a buddhist sign on it. From personal experience, it is vary different to Asians, even the Nazi version of things. Not that they are bad, jsut they see it differently. This is how I feel, and I am sorry if I offended anyone, but Jesus, jsut treat everyone equally, starting NOW. Forget all grudges, or how realatives were discriminated against. Remember what you owe society, not what society owes you. Remember three-fold rule: Whatever you do, returns to you three-fold. Give, and you will be given back even more. Live long and prosper. Gondor Primilon! lol Dan Conner - Sat, 16 Aug 2003 4:16am | ||
| ballz andy User Info... | dude on this fucking small planet its stupid to think about race when were all gonna be extinct by our own doing anyway (still drunk at 8:20 am!!) - Sat, 16 Aug 2003 11:16am | ||
| Anonymous User Info... | Thank you Mr. Dan Conner! you have possibly made the most intellegent post regarding racism i have ever seen on this board. it takes balls to stand up and say what you did. this has totally made my day. thank you. - Sat, 16 Aug 2003 7:06pm | ||
| Anonymous User Info... | I've seen more native americans sitting on the streets, drunk, hassling me for change, than I ever have seen working for an honest day's pay. I have no sympathy for those who cannot help themselves. I truely believe that their culture would be dead if it wasn't for the government protecting it. - Sat, 16 Aug 2003 7:09pm | ||
| KnifeGhost User Info... | God FUCKING dammit...... Native people just want the fucking Federal government to get off their fucking back so they can life their fucking lives in their culture..... Fucking fuck...... I haven't such such fucking ignorant anti-Native fucking racism since I moved out of Alberta....... That said, the swastika is a symbol of good luck in buddhism and other eastern philosophies/religions, but NOT when they're on a Nazi banner........... And that's clearly a Nazi banner, not a Buddhist tapestry....... - Sat, 16 Aug 2003 8:28pm | ||
| Shawn User Info... | True that Knife Ghost. FUCK WHITEY!! - Sun, 17 Aug 2003 2:21am | ||
| The Ref User Info... | The thoughts in some of these treads are interesting in their simplicity, but much more complicated than many probably understand. Now I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone, but feel that I should perhaps add some views that might open some eyes and minds to the complexity of racial grudges and/or animosity's. I have said in previous posts under this sort of topic, that it's easy for people to say "forget about it, it's the past! What some peoples ancestors did are not the fault of those living "today". There is some truth in this statement, however, it runs a heck of allot deeper than that. History has always been written by the victors. What some would call "bravery and frontier spirit", others would call "invasion or terrorism". I would be interested to read the native history books and their take on the past. I'm sure that they would read pretty much the same as our history books read, in events! Just the complete opposite in facts! Now this might be a bit of a long thread but I'm hoping to try to help shed a little light to those who may not understand some of the reasons for racial grudgery (I know, no such word). A few weeks ago I happen to be going through some really old books and stuff that belonged to an uncle of mine. In this stuff were books and video cassettes of old movies. Some Zane Grey novels and quite a few old western movies. Ya know, John Wayne, Jimmy Stewart classics. They are a good example of the way that history has been written. So...I sat down and started reading one of Grey's novels. Don't remember the name of it, as I am not into that kind of literature. In the beginning of the book (first 8 or 10 pages) he expounded on the bravery of the pioneer spirit. How people left their comfortable lives to face natures hardships (and here's the kicker) "WILD, untamed savages". He goes onto explain that these "savages" went around indiscriminately killing innocent settlers, for no other reason (according to him) than the pure enjoyment of the act. Much as we can pretty much be assured that Jesus was a person of color (based on his geographical location). We can also pretty much assume that these "savages" were simply protecting what was there's to begin with. Not only that, but I believe they met these settlers with open arms in many cases. Only to be left with disease and pestulance. Then I moved onto a Jimmy Stewart classic called "How the West was won". In the beginning of this film, Spencer Tracey narrates. In his narrative, he also expounds on the glory of the American frontiersman, stating in no uncertain terms that, "they had to endure natures unbending wrath and the constant threat from untamed, uncivilized and primitive SAVAGES". He goes onto say how "proud Americans should be of their forefathers, in taming these savages and the land. This to me is disturbing and will help to bring home my point, which is this; Some say "forget about the past, that's what it is, the past"! To this I suggest a means by which to do this; albeit next to impossible to achieve and in doing so, probably wouldn't change much of today's world... Let's go through North American literature, movies etc...and dispose of all the interpretations that portray non whites as either "savage, stupid, uneducated, subservient, lazy etc...not likely. However, your children and mine may be forced (at some point in their lives) to read or watch these interpretations (and lets face it! That's exactly what they are, "interpretations"). What will it leave them with in thought??? A Continued misunderstanding of the true facts and a possible belief in what they had seen or read??? Only to continue the generalization and incorrect portrayal of non whites throughout history. I have seen this in many threads on this board, "we won the war, so get over it" kinda thought. Again, history is written by the victors. So to the victors go not only the spoils, but a long history of righteousness. This is apparent throughout American history. How they came, saw and conquered. It doesn't say much about the effects this had on the ecosystems of that country. Total, unchecked freedom to loot upon nature. Not taking just enough to survive, but taking and using everything! This culture is one of total piggery. I have said it before. Look at the U.S. now, running out of water, fuel, food. They hunted many species into the ground. This attitude has stayed with them to this day. "Find it, kill it, eat it, use it until it's gone. And then cry about it. So my point is this...It's hard for people of color to "forget" about the past when it is constantly and forever being pushed in their faces via many types of media. Books, TV, Movies etc... If someone were to have had a great great grandfather that was say...a serial killer, and all of his crimes were say...documented on film. We can liken this situation to having this person forced to sit and watch these crimes over and over and over again. How would this make them feel??? The person watching is not a "serial killer" but might well become one after watching this debacle over and over. There is no escaping the these facts. History has been written by the victors and there's no re-writing it. So to those who say "forget about it" I say, HOW?? How would someone feel if the history books had been written by say...the natives? In these books, some peoples ancestors would no doubt be portrayed as "brutality of the worst kind". "Gone with the wind"=stupid blacks, any western books from the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's,="crazy Indians". Any show featuring Hispanics today,="buffooning Hispanics" So there are hundreds of thousands of books, movies and many types of media that are a constant and ever present reminder to people of color, that they are not worth as much. That they don't have as proud a heritage. That the conquerors helped to make them better??? I'd say that we can all pretty much agree that this is the "big lie". When media is finally understood for what it is, we can all breath a sigh of relief. Only then will our future generations be able to "Forget about it". Here in BC, and indeed in many other places in North America and the world, I have on many occasions (being Mulatto) been called "Chief", had people say "How", and so on. I'm not native but it's obvious to me that the media has helped to successfully portray me (being non white) as something that I am not. A native. People just assume and they assume incorrectly. In this "forget about it" world that some speak of, people would be appreciated as just that, people. Whether some like to believe it or not, there is a constant and underlying untouchable, useable cloud over non whites. In Vic, not much overt racism, but the feeling is still there. Ask a non white. However, it's a fact of life and most can deal with it. And yes, I'm sure that some would say that these feelings are ones coming from that individual, but again, history has been writen and remembered. That's my two cents. And again, not trying to pick a fight. I'm sure that many will/may disagree and that's the beauty of open communications. So go ahead and tell me why you agree or disagree with my assesments. - Sun, 17 Aug 2003 11:58am | ||
| Shawn User Info... | I fully agree with you that the media plays a huge role in shaping racial profiling/ignorance/misunderstandings. Similarily, in South Africa, for example, in the days of extreme apartheid school history books started at the Boer settlement and go onward from the Afrikaner point of view. Unfortunately, the Afrikaner had only been there for, at the most, 300 years. So there were thousands of years of ignored history, and why is that? Because it wasn't white history. - Sun, 17 Aug 2003 1:23pm | ||
| Jam_Aylott User Info... | actually, the Swastica was a symbol of Luck, Life, and 2 other things that start with L... if you look at it right... its 4 Ls.... teh Nazi's just corrupted it... like I bet nigger (please excuse me) wouldnt be such a bad word if it ment "friend"... its the terms and feelings that we attach to words that decifer what they mean. - Sun, 17 Aug 2003 5:19pm | ||
| Anonymous User Info... | ref- that was the most drawn out, repetitive piece of shit rant i have ever read in my life. shut the fuck up and stop trying to be martin luther king. you are not a revelutionary, you are not a 'ref', you are an idiot. - Sun, 17 Aug 2003 6:40pm | ||
| FANGU User Info... | ah, the brave and daring anon speaks again. grow a spine. have your children raped, your land taken away, become a christian, assimilate, get over it...? enough inbred rascist ranting... ...so how bout them nazi Asians? - Sun, 17 Aug 2003 7:59pm | ||
| The Ref User Info... | Yes...this anon is one of the most cowardly people to visit this board. Your words mean NOTHING! You are a coward that needs to hide behind anonymity! Several words that should never come out of your mouth...Martin Luther King and revolutionary. Why? Because you are too much of a coward to speak your mind and let everyone know who's speaking. Revolutionary's in a society like ours don't have to hide, so you shouldn't use that word and Martin Luther would have had some choice words for a coward such as yourself so you shouldn't use his name. Scared little person and a COWARD! But everyone knows that don't they?? Funny how the truth hurts eh Anon? - Mon, 18 Aug 2003 12:44am | ||
| Anonymous User Info... | i just like stirring shit up, and it worked. thanks guys! :) HAHAhAHAhaHAhaHAHAhaAAhhAAHHHAAAAAA LOSERS! - Mon, 18 Aug 2003 1:23am | ||
| KnifeGhost User Info... | Ref, thanks, that was quality.... Mine was just an outburst..... Again, in Buddhism the Swastika is a symbol of good luck.... But not when it's on Nazi banners..... Check out the link at the start of the thread.... - Mon, 18 Aug 2003 1:47am | ||
| Retrovertigo User Info... | I agreed with most of The Ref's argument, except for this bit: "Much as we can pretty much be assured that Jesus was a person of color (based on his geographical location). We can also pretty much assume that these "savages" were simply protecting what was there's to begin with." That's like saying "much as we can be assured that Santa Claus lives in a very well insulated house (given the icey North Pole climate) we can assume..." Comparing the struggle of a persecuted people with the skin colour of a mythical character sort of undermines the reality of the issue, and gives the argument a lot less credibility. Not to be nit-picky or anything, that just seemed sort of silly in contrast with the rest of your post. Unless of course you were intending to say that we can't apply much certainty to the idea that the natives were fighting for their land. I don't really have much of an opinion on the land-ownership/native rights situation since I haven't looked at all into it. But it would seem the people who are against it have a very bigoted approach when it comes to voicing their views on the subject. I hear more racist comments then I do reasonable arguments. - Mon, 18 Aug 2003 4:37am | ||
| The Ref User Info... | I agreed with most of The Ref's argument, except for this bit: "Much as we can pretty much be assured that Jesus was a person of color (based on his geographical location). We can also pretty much assume that these "savages" were simply protecting what was there's to begin with." That's like saying "much as we can be assured that Santa Claus lives in a very well insulated house (given the icey North Pole climate) we can assume..." Comparing the struggle of a persecuted people with the skin colour of a mythical character sort of undermines the reality of the issue, and gives the argument a lot less credibility. Not to be nit-picky or anything, that just seemed sort of silly in contrast with the rest of your post. At the time that I was writing that thread, it occurred to me that perhaps this comparison was not quite appropriate. It was meant more as an example then anything. Santa Clause as we all know is a totally mythical character, where as Jesus certainly is less "mythical". It was a difficult decision to add this comparison without entering into a debate on the subject, but I thought that if I simply used it as "an example", without any kind of questions of veracity, that my point would be taken. I guess I could have given it more thought and come up with a better one. But it made sense to me at the time. But I do think that comparing Santa Claus and Jesus Christ is in itself a little off base. Who Jesus Christ was is the question that I tried to avoid. It was a simple statement meant to show how assumptions can create falsities in written history. It is written that Jesus was a man of "Olive Skin and Blue eyes" I was simply pointing out that due to climate and geography, he was in all probability quite "dark skinned". But your point is well taken. Thanks for pointing that out. - Mon, 18 Aug 2003 9:08am | ||
| Retrovertigo User Info... | Religious skepticism aside, I don't believe Jesus existed, unless he was a scholar and scam artist who was trying to imitate Mithras. Mithras "lived" 600 years earlier, and the correlations between him and Jesus are a little too many for me to dismiss as simple coincidence. I don't remember all of the similarites, but here are a few: Mithras was sent down to Earth from the heavens (okay, pretty common scenario), he was martyred on Easter (hung from a tree), he died on the tree, only to be ressurected 3 days later, his disciples ate his flesh and drank his blood. Those are just a fe of the examples. There are many more, but I don't remember all of them. I can look into it again if you want to know more. This info is pretty hard to dig up, but it's there if you look for it. Anyways, I got to run, since I have a ferry to catch. I won't be able to respond for another 10 days. - Mon, 18 Aug 2003 12:35pm | ||
| METALHEAD!% User Info... | If I was in power, one of the first things I would do is give the natives a lot more land. They need room to expand, and there is so much land just being logged away and burnt away. Why not give it away? Let a people who will respect it and enjoy it have it. Some people might say it is not fair for the natives to get more land. Well personally I would rather all of it go to the natives and have it in their control than a single acre being in control of Mr. DUI Campbell. - Mon, 18 Aug 2003 1:33pm | ||
| KnifeGhost User Info... | Metalhead speaks wisely.... It's all their land, anyways.... Who is this Mithras character? Sounds like some interesting reading....... - Tue, 19 Aug 2003 5:36am | ||
| ballz andy User Info... | ya lets end fucking poverty while were at it !!!sorry dude it was there land 250 years ago.now we live in an over populated world that has way more problems than that.personally i think human beings wont live out the next century.besides do you really think more handouts will help them? hell no!we all bleed the same colour.we all have to live here.and do you really think this country could afford to stop logging that land your talking about?what the hell would we live off then?that is our main resource shitty as it may be. - Tue, 19 Aug 2003 8:03am | ||
| The Ref User Info... | "Alternatives" will be the word for the next fifty to seventy five years. Gasoline/Oil will be a thing of the past, as will logging. Many other ways to get what we need from alternate resources. - Tue, 19 Aug 2003 9:28am | ||
| Shawn User Info... | Right on Metalhead. Like Malcolm X said, land = freedom. - Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:42pm | ||
| KnifeGhost User Info... | The fuck? Letting them live on their land is a "handout"? Fuck that, it's a way to let them fucking live their lives in their culture, which will let them live without the support (on the condition of complex and insane rules) from the Federal goverment...... But it sounds like you might be interested in Daniel Quinn's writing.... Very interesting stuff..... About overpopulation and the evironmental/social crisis we're kind of staring into...... - Tue, 19 Aug 2003 6:49pm | ||
| tard bowl cut User Info... | thee inndeands spred the friges an kars with no weels on there yard ande i dont thinc thate iz respekt four the land butt i wil pee inn a bagg an throe it att them in there shak on the reserv - Tue, 19 Aug 2003 9:06pm | ||
| Anonymous User Info... | excuse me? native people will enjoy and appreciate the land more? could you possibly buy into a little more of a stereotype? those peace-loving people who live in teepees, have pow wows and shed a single tear at the sight of urban waste has almost entirely degraded itself into the drunken trailer park smoked salmon, beaded necklace making people of today. i realize this in itself is a stereotype, but hell, in REAL life, what do you see more of, example 'A' or example 'B'? if you're going to pull that "native people would enjoy and appreciate the land more" crap, you may as well give the land to a bunch of hippies. hippies appreciate nature too you know. - Tue, 19 Aug 2003 9:09pm | ||
| The Ref User Info... | Anon! Now it sounds like your the one who's always talking just to hear himself! What a fuckin joke! Ever been to any "completely native communities"? Obviously not! In many of the communities that I have visited, booze is nowhere to be found. Sports (especially basketball)make for the mainstay of entertainment. Education, and clean living are held among the highest of their standards. No doubt while you were hanging around with your mates on Hastings, you noticed these derelict individuals that you speak of! Part of the worlds problems are due to idiots like you! - Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:16am | ||
| Raoul User Info... | all this name calling we sink so low so quickly - Wed, 20 Aug 2003 7:25pm | ||
| Anonymous User Info... | somehow i think the ref got teased alot as a kid. - Wed, 20 Aug 2003 8:14pm | ||
| The Ref User Info... | Coward! - Wed, 20 Aug 2003 8:18pm | ||
| Anonymous User Info... | wow. that was posted like 30 seconds after mine. do you live on this board? i mean seriously, do you actually have a life outside of live victoria? i'm sorry that the internet is your only means of a social life :( - Wed, 20 Aug 2003 8:19pm | ||
| The Ref User Info... | Coward! - Wed, 20 Aug 2003 8:21pm | ||
| Anonymous User Info... | what would you do with your life if this messageboard ever shut down? - Wed, 20 Aug 2003 8:23pm | ||
| The Ref User Info... | Coward! - Wed, 20 Aug 2003 8:30pm | ||
| Anonymous User Info... | i know you are. - Wed, 20 Aug 2003 8:32pm | ||
| Bag of glue User Info... | It gets even funnier when he starts threatening people by saying how much he wieghs and that he drives around on a big bad moterbike. - Wed, 20 Aug 2003 9:03pm | ||
| Fred the Dragon User Info... | Man, this debate will never end. I've been facinated with the "Native question" for quite a few years now. I spent quite a bit of my university career taking courses on Native history, Aboriginal Self-Government, etc., and I still have yet to come to a definite opinion. There are SOOOO many sides to this argument that I feel that it will be impossible for both sides to be happy. It's not just about Natives needing and deserving more land. It's about questions like: how will Native people, in today's world, run their own land without help from the Federal government? Where is the money going to come from to train the people who will run the land? The politicians, the engineers, the garbagemen, the police officers, the fire fighters, the teachers, the doctors? These questions are just the tip of the iceberg. I'm just trying to ask some questions that not everyone thinks about. - Thu, 21 Aug 2003 2:18am | ||
| Retrovertigo User Info... | I'm finally getting around to responding here after being away. Sorry for dragging this thread back out from the dredges of the messageboard archives. At least one person was interested in Mithraism -you can learn a bit about it at http://www.vetssweatshop.net/dogma.htm That's where the below quotes are from, except where I've indicated otherwise. I've just quoted some of the striking similarities between Mithraism and Christianity. I have heard more which were not mentioned at the site, from a Catholic girl oddly enough. Here's a brief summary of most of the points touched upon, with regards to the Xtianity/Mithraism parallels: "Purification through a ritualistic baptism was required of the faithful, who also took part in a ceremony in which they drank wine and ate bread to symbolize the body and blood of the god. Sundays were held sacred, and the birth of the god was celebrated annually on December the 25th. After the earthly mission of this god had been accomplished, he took part in a Last Supper with his companions before ascending to heaven, to forever protect the faithful from above." Some more that I found interesting... "The struggle between good and evil was extended into the afterworld, where Mithras ensured the protection of his followers from the powers of darkness. It was believed that Mithras would judge the souls of the dead and lead the righteous into the heavenly regions where Ahura-Mazda reigned in eternal light. Mithraism brought the assurance that reverence would be rewarded with immortality." Christmas! "The great festival of the Mithraic calendar was held on December the 25th" And then we have the overthrowal of all Pagan religions... "After Constantine, Emperor from 306-337 C.E., converted on the eve of a battle in 312 C.E., Christianity was made the state religion. All emperors following Constantine were openly hostile towards Mithraism. The religion was persecuted on the grounds that it was the religion of Persians, the arch-enemies of the Romans." I wonder what would have happened if Constantine had never taken the throne. And I love this part: "The absurdity with which Christianity enveloped Roman paganism was characterized by the early Church writer Tertullian (160-220 C.E.), who noticed that the pagan religion utilized baptism as well as bread and wine consecrated by priests. He wrote that Mithraism was inspired by the devil, who wished to mock the Christian sacraments in order to lead faithful Christians to hell." And then there's the Christian side of things: "even though there are similarities between Christianity and Mithraism, it is up to the critics to prove that one borrowed from the other. But, considering that the writers of the New Testament was written by Jews who shunned pagan philosophies and that the Old Testament has all of the themes found in Christianity, it is far more probable that if any borrowing was done, it was done by the pagan religions that wanted to emulate the success of Christianity." [www.carm.org/evidence/mithra.htm] Apparently the writers of the new testament were written by Jews. I wonder who wrote the writer of the afformentioned article. Probably those crafty Swedes. - Tue, 2 Sep 2003 5:08am | ||
| Zippgunn User Info... | Wow, Dan Conner's post was certainly illuminating if only to help prove my theory that pig ignorant racists are not only evil but can't spell worth shit. For starters Native Canadians are not looked after by Human Resources unless they live off reserve, they usually deal with the Department of Indian Affairs, as corrupt a bureaucracy as has ever existed in Canadian history. Their beef with the govt. isn't in the deep past either; the residential school system was in full operation untill the 70's; essentially kidnapping native children and forcing them into "schools" that were a hell of a lot worse than most young offender prisons where rape and even murder were commonplace (and where the documentation of "enrollees" was so sketchy that a few could simply disappear without any questions being asked for months. I know this because almost all of my in laws did time in these hell holes (run by the United Church of Canada which I was, embarrassingly baptised as a baby) and the few that will even speak of their experiences (all male, not surprisingly) speak of unbelievable treatment by the bible thumping sadists that ran them. Speak any language other than English? Well if you're a cute girl you could get "detention" with someone like Arthur Plint (convicted of literally hundreds of charges of sexual misconduct, the presiding judge called it "institutionalised pedophilia"). Steal an extra potato to ward off the malnutrition that was so common? Well, one kid simply dissappeared and probably dozens, even hundreds more did as well, who cares they're all just godless chugs, right?. Guys like Conner don't see natives working because the majority of them either log or fish for a living (the two most dangerous jobs in B.C. and not the kind of place you'll find a puke like D.C.). If a native band wants housing what do they do? I'll bet the majority of you think the govt. provides them with housing but that is WRONG; they go to the bank and get a mortgage (or try to, often with no luck at all) just like you and me. Native people get almost no extra tax breaks either. I know this because I'm married to one. Oh yeah, up until a few years ago, if a native woman married a white man she even lost her native status, but if a white woman married a native man she actually became a native woman. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. So, to keep this skreed a reasonable length, don't talk shit about stuff you know fuck all about Danny boy. And I really hope I meet you in person someday. - Tue, 2 Sep 2003 8:54pm | ||
| kilroy User Info... | Good post Zippgun. I've tried to point out to this ignorant fool Dan Conner that the shite he talks about natives is complete ignorant racist bullshit. Maybe if he dove a little deeper into this province's history than the cracker jack box history books we all saw in school he might see how ignorant and foolish he really sounds.With the wealth of info available these days such ill-informed nonsense is really unacceptable,and quite fucking sad.... - Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:48pm | ||
| greg User Info... | I agree with you Zip, but am concerned about these native land claims . I read one report that suggested the total of aboriginal claims claimed more than 100 per cent of B.C. I may be a racist goof, but that seems excessive... no? - Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:05pm | ||
| FANGU User Info... | i don't understand this "over" 100%...? thats RIDICULOUS giving back a stolen property huh. regardless, i really don't think we are starving for land. - Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:38am | ||
| Retrovertigo User Info... | Perhaps he meant they wanted all of BC plus maybe some of Alberta...or the WORLD!! *dun dun dunnnnn* Well, I'm okay with them owning all of it, so long as I can still stay here. I'm sure they'd do a better job of running the province than our current government...but i don't think they'd allow that, ever. There's not much land left in the world that hasn't been fought over or "stolen" from its original owners (for lack of a better word). I say share the hospitality, so long as there's room. I think if everyone were segregated to the homelands of their ancestors, bigotry would be worse than it is now, and of course there would be many who would demand more land, etc., so we'd just end up reliving all our previous wars, but with bigger weapons. And what would we do with all the people who were of mixed ancestry? Fight over who gets to keep them? I don't like the idea of land being owned by one ethnicity over another, though I realize that's the way most countries run (including our own in a sense). That is more to do with whoever's in the majority in a given region. If there are 10,000 caucasians and 500 native Indians, chances are the people in charge will be white. But they wouldn't be in charge BECAUSE they're white (though it would be an asset given the biases of most people) but because they applied for those positions of power. If a native minority wants to gain more power, their chances would be better if more of them ran for government positions. Infiltrate through the system I say! - Wed, 3 Sep 2003 2:03am | ||
| KnifeGhost User Info... | But there's only so much you can do within the system..... Any change enacted through the system operates within the system's logic, and leaving Native people to live their culture is just about unthinkable to the system...... Zippgun, rad post..... The "over 100%" thing, if it holds any truth (it sounds like scare-mongering to me) represents the land claimed in all claims, just square-milage tallied up...... There are areas that are areas in several different claims, and would therefore be counted twice, three, four, or five times..... That's assuming it's true..... Like I say it sounds like a scare tactic...... Native people don't want political power over the new guys, and they don't want a check in the mail every months..... They want to live their culture, a culture that doesn't have (formal) lawyers, or (formal) engineers, etc.... I dunno.... It certainly is a sticky problem, but it's by no means one that can't be resolved....... - Wed, 3 Sep 2003 4:02am | ||
| greg User Info... | The claims for "over 100 per cent' meant different native groups wanted the same bits of land. - Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:06am | ||
| Troutbreath User Info... | There are just too many things to comment on here. Ref, have you ever come across a book called 'Warpath and Bivouac or the Conquest of the Souix'? It was written by a Chicago reporter who accompanied Generals crook and Terry on their march into "Indian Territory" the book covers, among other things Custer being rubbed out by Sitting Bull. My ancestors were Pagans who had their tongues extracted with red hot pincers if they didn't convert to Christianity and see no reason why I should forgive the Christians for it. As for Aurthur Plint, I was a cub scout in West Vancouver and I had him as our Scout leader for a couple of years. He never came on to me but who knows what went on during his 'extra' time with the rest of the lads. Hi Ho isn't life fun? - Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:55pm | ||
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