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What did Saddam or Iraq do to the USA to justify mass murder?
| Message Board > General Chitchat > What did Saddam or Iraq do to the USA to justify mass murder? |
| Anonymous | What did Saddam or Iraq do to the USA to justify mass murder?(and hypotheticals allowed,the holocaust that is about to descend on Iraq will be no hypothetical) - Wed, 19 Mar 2003 8:57pm | ||
| Lennonite | "Wars and temper tantrums are the makeshifts of ignorance." -Joseph Campbell. - Wed, 19 Mar 2003 9:04pm | ||
| Jedi | I have no idea. Why is the US involved? Soory but I dont watch much TV. - Wed, 19 Mar 2003 9:17pm | ||
| Anonymous | i don't really get it either. and why the hell should canada be expected to go when the US says "jump" - Wed, 19 Mar 2003 9:34pm | ||
| Jedi | Is canada in this too? - Wed, 19 Mar 2003 9:35pm | ||
| Anonymous | Our Protesters�and Theirs By Chris Weinkopf FrontPageMagazine.com | March 19, 2003 SOME 20,000 intrepid, peace-loving activists turned out last week to protest against their government, its unjust policies, its war-mongering president and his utter disregard for international opinion. The protest was held in Kirkuk, Iraq�outside the Baath Party�s main administrative headquarters. The demonstrators were calling for Saddam Hussein�s overthrow. True, this protest didn�t generate as much attention as the �anti-war� rallies staged last weekend in a Portland, San Francisco, Washington, and elsewhere, where the America-hating left compared President Bush to Adolf Hitler and pleaded for Hussein�s prolonged hold on power, but there�s an explanation for that�beyond the establishment media�s obvious sympathy for the �anti-war� effort, that is. The main reason we heard little and saw nothing from the Kirkuk protests is that there were no reporters there. The only evidence the world has that the event took place at all is a number of second-hand reports. That�s because Iraq�which assigns an official government minder to shadow every foreign correspondent�doesn�t allow the media access to its dissidents. For that matter, it doesn�t even let foreign correspondents use their own satellite phones to transmit stories back home. That�s how tightly Hussein�s fascist regime regulates the flow of news. And it�s not as though protests are some everyday occurrence in Iraq, complete with celebrity appearances and a flurry of advance publicity. In Iraq, demonstrating against the president and his regime is a serious crime, the usual punishment for which is extensive torture followed by death. At great personal risk, opposition forces have become bolder and more vocal in recent weeks because they�re optimistic that Hussein�s reign of terror will soon come to an end. That�s to say, America�s resolve has already made Iraq a freer place, and the liberation hasn�t even started yet. Still, Iraqi protesters voice their opinions at their own peril. Last week, in the al-Hurriyya suburb of Baghdad, Hussein�s security forces arrested a civil servant for preparing to flee the country. With war only days away, the government has issued strict orders for all civilians to stay put, the purpose being to drive up the number of innocent casualties after hostilities begin. To make an example of this poor soul, Hussein�s butchers tied him to a street pole and ordered passersby to watch as they cut out his tongue�then left him to bleed to death. Relatively speaking, he got off lightly. He could have been forced to watch his wife or children get raped and killed, another of the regime�s more creative forms of punishment. Ann Clwyd, a British Labour Member of Parliament charged with cataloging Iraqi war crimes, reports even more ghastly stories of Iraqi abuses�humans dropped into giant shredders and ripped limb from limb, menstruating women suspended by their legs in a barbaric effort to humiliate them. This is the regime we�re removing, the one from which America�s courageous men and women in uniform will soon be freeing the Iraqi people. It�s also the regime that America�s �anti-war� protesters regularly take to the streets to protect, nominally in the interest of the Iraqi civilians who stand to die in an invasion. For some reason, the protesting set doesn�t much worry about the Iraqi civilians who die every day under Hussein�s cruel reign. To them, dying for fascism is somehow less tragic than dying for freedom. This is the same regime America�s protesters hold out as morally superior, or at least morally indistinguishable, from their own democratically elected government. Of course, it�s easy to make outrageous and morally obtuse statements about your own government in a country that maintains the right to free speech and respects the civil liberties of all its citizens. It�s great sport to denounce your president as a murderer or a fascist when you can rest comfortably knowing that he will never murder you our submit you to fascistic subjugation. It�s a different story Iraq. Another anti-Hussein demonstration last weekend, this one waged by Iraqi Shi�ites in the holy city of Kerbala, was �violently suppressed after the intervention of militiamen loyal to Saddam,� according to news reports. In ethnically Kurdish areas, Iraqi forces have been rounding up young men, Gestapo-style, for fear that the Kurds will mount a revolution once the war begins. �There is a campaign to arrest young people, especially at night,� one 21-year-old Kurd told Knight Ridder. �The other day in the Iskan neighborhood, (Iraqi officials) cut the telephones so people could not speak to each other,� claims another. Yet despite the risks, a good number of brave Iraqis are protesting�and more�hopeful that after a lifetime of oppression, freedom is coming. Saboteurs staged a successful strike last week against the Iraqi railway system. Vandals have begun trashing the ubiquitous Saddam posters that hang on doors throughout the country. Opposition leaders in Kurdish-controlled territories are busily collecting thousands of surrender letters from Iraqi political and military leaders that take effect the moment war begins. When that happens, Iraqi protesters will tremble in fear while hanging on to hope. American protesters, on the other hand, plan to greet the start of the war by tying up crucial police and security services�services that could be needed in the event of a terrorist attack�by blocking federal buildings, deliberately creating traffic jams and disrupting commerce. In Iraq, protesters risk their lives to denounce tyranny. They stand in stark contrast to American protesters who risk nothing to preserve it. The day can�t come soon enough when the Iraqi protesters get the freedom they crave, the same freedom America�s protesters take for granted. - Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:07pm | ||
| Anonymous | LOL! Hey check out the bullshit website that shit article came from - the titles of the articles are jokes in themselves: Why the left loves Osama, Should a patriotic american attend ralies organized by communists? its almost like its parody! - Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:39pm | ||
| Anonymous | I can't connect to the website, but I also can't see why those titles are inherently comical. I wonder myself why leftists go so easy on Osama and Saddam, and although it's certainly possible to be a patriotic American (or Canadian) and a communist, the question itself could be worth asking in certain contexts. - Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:41pm | ||
| Anonymous | If good's on my left I'm sticking to the right - Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:44pm | ||
| Anonymous | - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 2:36am | ||
| Anonymous | see if this works: http://www.frontpagemagazine.com - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 3:48am | ||
| Johnny Feelings User Info... | So I went to Front Page News, and after reading about how the war in Iraq is "justified" and that objectors are "leftists conpirators," I noticed an article claiming that Vietnam could have been won if LBJ had taken a more direct route. LBJ was reposnible for the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution that allowed him to escalate the war to whatever level he saw fit, and he saw fit to put a lot of men over there. He also did exctensive bombing campaigns at the suggestion of the airforce and thiose in the administration that were in favor of increasing the war. LBJ drew the line at the recomendation of dropping nuclear weapons, and therefore, according to Front Page News Magazine, did not do enough to win the war. (They don't say this explicitly, they say he thought about it to much and paid to much heed to protesters.) America was doomed to loose the Vietnam war because he had to clear objective, and because its "allie," the puppet government of Diem's South Vietnam, was a sham. This paper is pure propaganda, and this new war is total shit. Also, calling the leftwing, those apposing the war, conspirators and agents of the Iraqi's is radiculous. (This magazine is also oddly stuck in the Cold war... Many articles suggest that there is an international threat of communism. It scares me to think that people this war-hungry exist.) - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 10:56am | ||
| Bryn | Yeah, those Front Page guys are crazy nuts... It is a fact that the ANSWER group is a front for the World Worker's Party in the U.S., but even if the communist parties in the US sweep up a few anti-war protestor into their fold, they are still pretty much on the lunatic fringe, not a threat. In my opinion, other than people who object to war on moral or religious grounds, a lot of the anti-war protestors give the impression of being more anti-American than anti-war. Hopefully this whole mess ends up with Iraq being reconstructed as a free country, and not too many dead folks on either side. War is bad, but sometimes it's got to happen to keep away bigger problems later. - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 12:22pm | ||
| Jedi | Well said Bryn! - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 12:34pm | ||
| Anonymous | Jedi- stop brownnosing you idiot. - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 12:38pm | ||
| Anonymous | isnt brownnosing what someone does when they want something from that person? hmmm, I think it looks more like a compliment esp after all the idiotic comments other have made. - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 12:39pm | ||
| Tomym Frankfurters | So far in all the bombing only one lady has died, a Jordanian woman in Baghdad.. 2 women and one child injured, and about 20 buildings destroyed.. Saddam has lit all the southern Oil Feilds on fire and has started shelling the Kurds.. Thnaks for the pollution buddy! You fucking peace lovers make me sick.. What did Saddam Do? 1: he invaded peaceful Kuwait, 2: he lit ALL their oil wells on fire, except a few that he flooded into the ocean, severly polluting the gulf region air and ocean. 3: He dropped gas on a Kurdish Iraqi city and killed 5000 civilians. 4: His sons hand out justice with rape sodomy and torture, 5: Saddam has already killed off 10's of thousands of his own people with his own orders, and a few personally. 6: Proven that he was allowing Al Qaeda operatives to work freely in Baghdad 7: Launched 400 Scud missiles at Tel Aviv neighborhoods during Desert Storm, even though Israel didnt take part in that war. 8: Has launched Scuds at Israel randomly in the past. 9: declared war against Iran, forcing them into 10 years of nonstop battle with their neighbour. 10: has randomly performed genocide on Iraqi Kurdish people over his 30 year rule Saddam MUST go. Just about every single Iraqi out of Iraq want him gone. The people in Iraq are afraid of him. Saddams personal heroes include Joseph Stalin and Josep Broz Tito, who was the bloodthristy communist dictator of Yugoslavia for 30 years. HE MUST GO - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 12:56pm | ||
| Anonymous | Hmmm, "so far only one lady has died, a Jordanian woman in Baghdad.. 2 women and one child injured" ONLY? Something tells me that wasn't one of YOUR family members. As the casualties mount, please let us know when you plan to stop using the word "ONLY" to describe them. its about respect. - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 1:13pm | ||
| Anonymous | and injured. Think about that. I don't know the details, but that could mean a woman or child with "only" a limb or two blown off. I'm sure that if it were someone you loved it would break your heart. But its not so it DOESN'T. - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 1:16pm | ||
| dbel | If it was about Sadam and his sons--which I agree, like any dictators, should go--a well prepared hit squad carrying out strategic assasinations of upper level members of Iraq's current regime would work. Killing Civilians is not cool. Tommy your comments show you to be a very narrow-minded, insesitive fool. Just because a leader is bad doesn't mean the people should suffer. This is about one country tearing down major institutions of civilization for there own personal gain--not even for their people who will have to deal, for years to come with massive amounts of anti-American sentiment. In one fell swoop the most important institution in the world today was marginalized and may even fall apart, all for the gain of stupid white men. Tommy, go read what Chomsky has to say about this war, at least balance your propaganda, as you seem quite suseptible to the pro-war stance, without even acknowledging any of the incredibly valid points against it. Ask yourself who told you these things that you are so ready to beleive? What do they stand to gain by telling you these things, and most importantly of all, do you think they'd give a shit if you and your family was the "collateral damage"? Not likely. Kill Saddam, sure, like I give a fuck about yet another tyrant in this world checking out, don't hurt the innocent--and don't give me some bullshit response like you got to break a few eggs... - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 2:40pm | ||
| Anonymous | if what Tomym Frankfurters posted is correct at all? Then the person who posted the 2 after are fucking pussies. Thank god we trust "you" didnt get the job as US president. - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 2:46pm | ||
| Tommy Frankfurters | What I posted is correct. Iraqi's all over Iraq are looking forward to the end of this because Saddam will lose. Iraqi's are a modern civilization. Also one of the oldest on earth. They have technology, schools, music, internet, etc. They like Nike and rock n roll, they like cool cars and expensive sunglasses, they like to party and there are nightclubs in Iraq. These are normal , western freindly people. They deserve much more than the opression meted out by the Baath party. - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 2:50pm | ||
| Tommy Franks | Besides, the US has made it very clear they are attacking only presidential areas and command centers and weapons locations.. MOST Iraqi's stay the hell away from these locations.. - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 2:53pm | ||
| Jason User Info... | "US has made it very clear they are attacking only presidential areas and command centers and weapons locations" oh well... if they said that it must be true, eh Tommy? dipshits like you who watch CNN (or some other cheerleader of death) then go yapping like you have a clue make me sick. The USAs concern for civilians is zero. why do you think they bombed all the water treatment facilities and hospitals during there last visit to Iraq? or why would they use depleted uranium tipped missiles and bombs in the Baltics? Or bombed out 5 city blocks of apartment buildings in Panama? sigh.... I'm surprised you can type with that big american cock in your mouth. - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 3:00pm | ||
| Tom Frank | CNN just announced that the movie playing on TV across Iraq today is a movie that glorifies the struggleof dictator TITO who I mentioned above. Sadamm totally looks up to TITO who was one of the most bloodthristy dictators in modern history until his people rose up after the fall of the Iron Curtain and executed him after 1 day of trial. - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 3:04pm | ||
| Jason User Info... | and who made Tito the man he was? just shut up, you know nothing. - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 3:10pm | ||
| Anonymous | If you watch CNN and believe what they say,you are absent minded,brainwashed,try thinking for yourself. - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 4:55pm | ||
| Masturbating The War God User Info... | SOME things that CNN say are true, though for the most part it is just another money/power hungry media outlet, sucking up to Bush's money ass. Did anyone catch the New VI lastnight? Apperently they did a segment on the media, and how espically at times like these it is near impossible to find un-baised information. I didn't see it but I wished I had. So far I have found channel 2 and 20(cbc) to be doing the best. They don't talk to reporters all fucking day and ask the same handful of questions for days on end. And a friend told me today... CNN = Chicken Noddle News haha, excellent! - Thu, 20 Mar 2003 5:15pm | ||
| I don't have to take responsibility for anything! | "You fucking peace lovers make me sick.." This guy rocks! He really sticks up for his warrior roots in the face of all this unreasonable talk about not killing people! What a winner! - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 11:16am | ||
| Anonymous | people will protest any sort of war cause there's always these fucking idiots who don't see the whole picture... sure there's lots of death in war but being the top species on the planet with a growing life span soon we won't have anything to control population and then those hippie motherfuckers will think again when they're living with 30 people in a 5 bedroom house. And furthermore, Iraq has done enough to its own people to justify going in and dethroning him... to say that this is mass murder is a fucking joke... so what's the latest stats? one civilian dead? mind u bombing just commenced... so that's likely to raise. But that's the cost of war, the people of that country were warned for a month to get the hell out... i would've been on the next plane outta there if i saw one of those leaflets... anyways, war + iraq= better world - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 3:10pm | ||
| ROSS B AY User Info... | I don't know why they don't do what has been done in South America for decades - have commandoes sneak in and murder this fucking guy in his place or somewhere and get the fuck out of there. Of course there'll be retaliation but not as many normal people would die over this. Commandos. I know there's commandos there. Commandos man! That's the ticket..... - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 3:31pm | ||
| Tommy Franks | Hey Jason, Stalin made TITO the man he was. he was one of the most brutal iron curtain dictators there were. Stalin killed million sof his own, Tito killed 100's of thousands of Yugoslavs and Saddam has killed 10's of thousands of Iraqi's. I dont mean by a bad economy or poor medical plans either.. I mean with Death Squads, like the one that says the singer of WAV sang something we dont agree with, so we kick his door in at 3 am and rape his wife in front of his children then execute him on the spot. - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 3:31pm | ||
| Matt D. User Info... | That was an incredibly ignorant post (2 up from me).... yeah, the people that are still there can AFFORD plane tickets, and can leave their livelihoods behind and expect to survive as refugees..... even if some can, sometimes their relations can't. Everyone for themselves, eh? From what I understand after the deadline passed people can't even leave Baghdad, it's blocked off. Think before you say things...... - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 3:33pm | ||
| Anonymous | well Matt, maybe they should have left "before the deadline" I got the impression that was the point of informing Iraqi people there was such a thing. Fucking lucky if you ask me. I thought "real" warfare would be a supprise attack where troops are sent in to kill anything that moves, of course this would be after the city was bombed. - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 3:42pm | ||
| Jason User Info... | your so close tommy franks, but you just don't see it. good luck. - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 3:59pm | ||
| Tommy Franks | What I get is that on the eve of his destruction Saddam shows 1 show all over IRAQ, that of Tito's life, a movie that glorifies his deeds as a tyrant. Is anyone watching the tube? Its cool to see the citizens rejoice as the US enters their towns, they get up and tear down Saddam posters and paint over the Saddam pictures on the walls.. - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 4:04pm | ||
| Tommy Franks | Now footage with Iraqi Army deserters who HATE Saddam and want everyone to know that. - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 4:12pm | ||
| Tommy Franks | Oh ya, lets support this guy and let him rule : After his forces invaded Kuwait in August 1990, and coalition forces were massing together to force them out, Saddam said if he had to be evicted by force, then Kuwait would be burned. As promised, Iraqi troops set fire to more than 700 oil wells in several Kuwaiti oil fields in 1991 as they were retreating. Officials from the Kuwait Oil Company reported that all of Kuwait's oil fields had been damaged or destroyed by the Iraqis. The United States helped Kuwait in an international nine-month effort to extinguish the blazes. Before the fires, Iraq was responsible for intentionally releasing some 11 million barrels of oil into the Arabian Gulf from January to May 1991, oiling more than 800 miles of Kuwaiti and Saudi Arabian coastline. The amount of oil released was categorized as 20 times larger than the Exxon Valdez spill in Alaska and twice as large as the previous world record oil spill. The cost of cleanup was estimated at more than $700 million. - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 4:15pm | ||
| Tommy Franks and beans | 11 million barrels. KILL THE FUCKER! And to think, its the hippies that usually stand up for this fucking moron. - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 4:20pm | ||
| Brad | I want one of those "Hippy Killer T shirts! - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 4:24pm | ||
| Anonymous | Hey Tommy Boy," Now footage with Iraqi Army deserters who HATE Saddam and want everyone to know that.",do you think that everything you hear and see on CNN is true,I know that most of the stuff they tell us is bullshit,your can't even think for yourself,stop taking words from CNN and posting them you little fuck. - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 5:30pm | ||
| Anonymous | and tommy,"The United States helped Kuwait in an international nine-month effort to extinguish the blazes." here's a fact for you: -The United States Trained Osama Bin Laden and Supllied him with Billions of dollars to carry out deeds of there own. -The United States gave Saddam Hussein Billions of dollars to fight Iran,than they gave Iran Billions to fight Iraq,after being friends with Saddam and Osama,the US now tells the world that they are enemies,the US has been giving money to countries to destroy eachother for many years now,are we on the good guys team??? hell know! if you think the good guys are a bunch of rich,gun-crazy rednecks raping and slaughtering colored people of other countries,join the US or Great Britain Army,I know I won't. - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 5:35pm | ||
| Anonymous | and where do you get your information? haha smokin weed? - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 5:37pm | ||
| Anonymous | fucking people! telling other to think for themselves on an issue many miles from home? The technology and intelligent's put into this whole war and you think we should think all for ourselves and not trust a single CNN broadcast. Oh you are brilliant! - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 5:38pm | ||
| Anonymous | I know that most of the stuff they tell us is bullshit,your can't even think for yourself,stop taking words from CNN and posting them you little fuck. Oh please show us the light..... - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 5:41pm | ||
| Anonymous | how about you find "the light" yourself and wipe that american sperm off your lips. - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 5:47pm | ||
| Anonymous | i bet those iraqi's they interviewed were actually hollywood actors. Yes, they supplied Osama and Saddam with wapons. OOPS! Now its time to take em back isnt it.. - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 5:50pm | ||
| Tommy Franks | I am a General. - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 5:51pm | ||
| Anonymous | are wapons the same as tampons? - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 5:52pm | ||
| Anonymous | they supplied Osama and Saddam with what weapons? Biological and chemical? They who? - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 5:53pm | ||
| Anonymous | yes - Fri, 21 Mar 2003 5:53pm | ||
| Anonymous | stop being fucking pussy's everyone... what's done is done... saddam is a fucking tirent dictator that needs to be eliminated, by any means necessary. As for people being mass murdered... oh yeah that whole 1 civilian that's dead, that's a real mass murder. its not like the states are rolling through bagdad carpet bombing the whole city... there's specific targets which minimalizes civilian casualties. And what i've seen from most news casts people over in iraq seem to be happy about the tireny ending...so hurry up and finish the war already - Sat, 22 Mar 2003 12:47pm | ||
| Anonymous | carpet bombing the whole city was what I feared most before the war started. With the days of warnings and the way this war is going I would have to say this is looking more like a success than disaster. Now lets hope the war ends as fast as possible so the military is prepared for future battles with other possible enimies and allies of Saddam's. - Sat, 22 Mar 2003 1:28pm | ||
| Anonymous | thw west will rise above. - Sat, 22 Mar 2003 6:59pm | ||
| Anonymous | FROM ONE ANON TO ANOTHER: WHAT A TOUGH TALKING FUCKING PUSSY! - Sat, 22 Mar 2003 7:03pm | ||
| Spark | Hahahahahah! Yeah, us Victorians really know what's going on, don't we? How can any of you acually sit there and judge who's right and whos wrong? Why should any of you get to deside who lives and dies? I refuse to support any war in which there is so much resistance and SO much conflict of interest. - Sat, 22 Mar 2003 7:24pm | ||
| Anonymous | Ok,the person who said that only 1 civilian died,you are so stupid! do you actually believe it when the TV tells you that only one civilian died in the war? - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 3:12am | ||
| Anonymous | ^^^^^^^^^fucking pussy^^^^^^^^^^^^ - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 3:30am | ||
| Jedi | Check the dates and times people posted and compare the available news at that time. The reports really picked up after awhile. - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 5:06am | ||
| Jedi | lots of people dead now. - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 7:07am | ||
| Gibson | this war is good for us (people of earth). there are some physco fucks in the world, and they need to be taken out so we can have our peace and love back. you bleeding hearts would soon shut up if you knew how many women sadam and his sons have raped and murdered. his country lives in fear now, and i'm sure most of them pray for death anyways. to keep this world free of genocide you must kill a few people....think about that. - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 3:17pm | ||
| matt t User Info... | Its a fucking joke. The U.S. is acting on material they tortured people for. Look at some other facts and your idea of who the enemy might slightly be altered. Yes saddam gassed people in his own country, and there is no excuse for it. The CIA in the 60's flooded the Ghettos with crack and heroin to try to stop the african american uprising for fair rights (I can pretty much garentee you that this has ruined a lot more lives). They tested gasses in the 70's in the new york subway, and they tested LSD on without telling them. Hell they are still holding a couple thousand Afghans in that base in Cuba without thier right to talk to lawyers, media, or thier families (when was the last time you heard about those people, and how many of them are just victims of racism?) But back to Saddam, you know what the american government did right after he gassed his people? They increased trading and sent more food. Look at things such as Nixon�s "madman theory": americas enemies should recognize that we are crazed and unpredictable, with extraordinary destructive force at our command, so they will bend to our will in fear. You look at the countries that are for this war, and they are countries like ethiopia and columbia, countries that have felt the wraith of the united states and just want to be on thier good side. You look at countries like germany, france, russia, etc and they arent for this war. While everyone has different opinions, I dont believe Saddam is anything more than America's favorite mass murderer. But Bush is also a slaughterer of the innocent, and I think there are better ways of 'liberating' people than dropping bombs on them. Its an iffy subject, but if you want to look at a terrorist state look at america, its a lot closer and a lot more scary. And you look at CNN, FOX, MSNBC, etc and you look at total biased, total pro war propaganda. They are forced to take a pro american agenda due to what companies would do with thier ads if they said anything remotely anti american and how much thier fiscal year would suffer. http://www.democracynow.org/ http://www.indymedia.org/ Just a couple links, far more left wing and once again biased, but read a left wing, and then a right wing like cnn, rather than just cnn. And just for the hell of it because it made me laugh. http://www.jihadunspun.net/intheatre_external.php?article=45099&list=/ho/ - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 3:46pm | ||
| SGFBC | Alot of people I know are posting pretty ignorant things. If Bush is so bad for killing Iraqi soldiers to get Saddam out of power, then ask yourself some real questions. If Saddam surrenders, no civilians die. If Saddam surrendered no Iraqi soldiers would die, no buildings blown up, no POW's tortured and there would be no war. What kind of man, regardless of his past, present, or future would have his people suffer and die just to hold onto his dictatorship? Is this war necessary? Hell no. But one man could end it all at anytime and he doesn't. No one here knows all the details of whats going on. If you believe everything you see and hear on CNN then you are naive. If you disbelieve everything you see on CNN then you are a complete fucking idiot. The shit they show you live is not bullshit. If you see a bomb hit live, then it was not rigged, pretend, or propaganda. Reading something you find on the internet is just the same. There is a much higher chance of the reports on the internet being bullshit then anything on the news. As for Chomsky, the guy is great and I love his views and he makes alot of sense, but, it is his job to try and disprove Bush. Some of what he says is no doubt true, but more of it is Chomsky playing on technicalities in speeches then any actual fact. Humans have fought through out our history and it will never end. All the american/iraqi bashing/protesting in the world will not end this war or any other. Burning an american flag will not make you or the world better. You want to make a difference in this war or any other? There are two ways you can make an actual difference. 1) Convince everyone that you are right and they are wrong and become a world leader and stand up for what you believe in. 2) Join the military and learn how to kill people. Since killing people is how wars are decided. Insulting people because they have a different opinion about the war will not affect it in any way. Arguing over the morality of this war will not change the outcome or the reasons behind it. I am not justifying this war, but I also can not prove it is wrong. Neither can anyone else here. It is wrong that people have to die, but everyone dies, it is our fate the second we are born. How about you think about all the soldiers over there on both sides who are fighting and dying. They are not giving their lives so Bush can get rich, there is not 300,000 ignorant americans with guns in Iraq dying because TV told them it was right. Would any of you go to war and fight unless you thought it was worth killing and dying for? You always have a choice to not pull the trigger. Some of you are arguing about the deadline to leave Baghdad. There is no deadline. You can leave and/or surrender at any time. - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 3:58pm | ||
| Brad | Matt, your little propaganda has more flaws in it than the flaws themselves. What is motivating this from you? - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 4:19pm | ||
| matt t User Info... | Point out flaws, im more than willing to do more research and argue my points. And im just sick of he did this and he did that bullshit when america is no better. Its a war for oil in most cases, and the killing of civilians makes me sick, esp. when so many people think its a good thing. - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 4:26pm | ||
| Anonymous | Fuck Matt, your litle paragraph if so full and mixed with many conspiracy theories of the past and present. I dont know where to start. If thats your real e-mail, maybe I will send you line few pages referring to yours. See, I've been in columbia and my brother is a german citizen. The drugs comment about the blacks has a little truth in 2 cities. What you wrote looks organized to you and maybe some people but there are so many things you mixed together than were unrelated. - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 4:37pm | ||
| Anonymous | im 100% on your side Matt,right on. - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 4:40pm | ||
| Anonymous | it's almost like some of you are mixing shit up and adding it to truths to prove that YOU know shit others dont. If you can predict stuff?? then why not make it a positive effort? - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 4:42pm | ||
| Anonymous | must be french? The french helped america is the revolution only because they hated England! America saved their sorry asses when Germany was kicking theirs. Look that shit up. - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 4:45pm | ||
| Anonymous | homosexuality is a form of spiritual submission not unlike suicide - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 4:56pm | ||
| Macey | I personally prefer suicide. - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 4:58pm | ||
| matt t User Info... | Its not mixing up truths to make it look like I know stuff others dont. I took random shit yes, but there is something to match for everything saddam did. And they are unrelated, but they still have one thing in common, fucking your own people over. And you say just two cities? THEY FUCKING FLOODED THE GHETTOS WITH CRACK TO KEEP DOWN AFRICAN AMERICANS. That is so fucked up. I just actually erased half my post right now cause its pointless. If you come up with any good arguements why innocent people should get bombed post em. Im not any smarter than the next slob but I can see the right and wrongs in this. edit:/ fuck that, that is my true email, and Im not sitting watching a stupid board. if you want to argue email me and ill respond when i check my email. im not stupid enough to waste time with anon's trolling. - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 5:01pm | ||
| Anonymous | haha,at canadian hockey games,the American anthem is being boo'd,they deserve it,we do too. - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 5:12pm | ||
| Anonymous | I understand why the americans deserve it by why do we?? i guess cause we're the USA's bum buddy and we do everything they want us to. - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 5:37pm | ||
| Mr. Hell User Info... | Just drop crack on Saddam's castle. That should do the trick. - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 5:59pm | ||
| Anonymous | Dear Governor Bush: So today is what you call "the moment of truth," the day that "France and the rest of world have to show their cards on the table." I'm glad to hear that this day has finally arrived. Because, I gotta tell ya, having survived 440 days of your lying and conniving, I wasn't sure if I could take much more. So I'm glad to hear that today is Truth Day, 'cause I got a few truths I would like to share with you: 1. There is virtually NO ONE in America (talk radio nutters and Fox News aside) who is gung-ho to go to war. Trust me on this one. Walk out of the White House and on to any street in America and try to find five people who are PASSIONATE about wanting to kill Iraqis. YOU WON'T FIND THEM! Why? 'Cause NO Iraqis have ever come here and killed any of us! No Iraqi has even threatened to do that. You see, this is how we average Americans think: If a certain so-and-so is not perceived as a threat to our lives, then, believe it or not, we don't want to kill him! Funny how that works! 2. The majority of Americans -- the ones who never elected you -- are not fooled by your weapons of mass distraction. We know what the real issues are that affect our daily lives -- and none of them begin with I or end in Q. Here's what threatens us: two and a half million jobs lost since you took office, the stock market having become a cruel joke, no one knowing if their retirement funds are going to be there, gas now costs almost two dollars -- the list goes on and on. Bombing Iraq will not make any of this go away. Only you need to go away for things to improve. 3. As Bill Maher said last week, how bad do you have to suck to lose a popularity contest with Saddam Hussein? The whole world is against you, Mr. Bush. Count your fellow Americans among them. 4. The Pope has said this war is wrong, that it is a SIN. The Pope! But even worse, the Dixie Chicks have now come out against you! How bad does it have to get before you realize that you are an army of one on this war? Of course, this is a war you personally won't have to fight. Just like when you went AWOL while the poor were shipped to Vietnam in your place. 5. Of the 535 members of Congress, only ONE (Sen. Johnson of South Dakota) has an enlisted son or daughter in the armed forces! If you really want to stand up for America, please send your twin daughters over to Kuwait right now and let them don their chemical warfare suits. And let's see every member of Congress with a child of military age also sacrifice their kids for this war effort. What's that you say? You don't THINK so? Well, hey, guess what -- we don't think so either! 6. Finally, we love France. Yes, they have pulled some royal screw-ups. Yes, some of them can be pretty damn annoying. But have you forgotten we wouldn't even have this country known as America if it weren't for the French? That it was their help in the Revolutionary War that won it for us? That our greatest thinkers and founding fathers -- Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, etc. -- spent many years in Paris where they refined the concepts that lead to our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution? That it was France who gave us our Statue of Liberty, a Frenchman who built the Chevrolet, and a pair of French brothers who invented the movies? And now they are doing what only a good friend can do -- tell you the truth about yourself, straight, no b.s. Quit pissing on the French and thank them for getting it right for once. You know, you really should have traveled more (like once) before you took over. Your ignorance of the world has not only made you look stupid, it has painted you into a corner you can't get out of. Well, cheer up -- there IS good news. If you do go through with this war, more than likely it will be over soon because I'm guessing there aren't a lot of Iraqis willing to lay down their lives to protect Saddam Hussein. After you "win" the war, you will enjoy a huge bump in the popularity polls as everyone loves a winner -- and who doesn't like to see a good ass-whoopin' every now and then (especially when it 's some third world ass!). So try your best to ride this victory all the way to next year's election. Of course, that's still a long ways away, so we'll all get to have a good hardy-har-har while we watch the economy sink even further down the toilet! But, hey, who knows -- maybe you'll find Osama a few days before the election! See, start thinking like THAT! Keep hope alive! Kill Iraqis -- they got our oil!! Yours, Michael Moore - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 10:43pm | ||
| Anonymous | The Statue of Liberty is a big voodoo doll. Give it back before it's too late! - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 11:11pm | ||
| Anonymous | I wish it was a voodoo doll - Sun, 23 Mar 2003 11:35pm | ||
| Anonymous | "But have you forgotten we wouldn't even have this country known as America if it weren't for the French?" All right--Michael Moore is such a pissant, ill-informed rabble rouser it'd take a point-by-point to overturn all of his fatuous arguments, so I'll just pick one. France aided the American rebels not from some moral high ground, but out of self-interest in the ongoing European wars of the era. Much in the same way they oppose war in Iraq to protect their own contracts with the present Iraqi regime. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that--just don't kid yourselves. Or continue kidding yourselves--it makes little difference in the end. - Mon, 24 Mar 2003 12:14am | ||
| Donnie Black | He masacred his way into power back in the 70's, caused major shit on his neighbours throughout the 80's and the start of the 90's, killed a shit-bag of his own people along the way, and now he doesn't sleep in the same place 2 nights in a row cuz his own people will kill him.... you think that this guy don't know he's a bad-ass mother fucker? Go find out the shit he's done over the past 30 years, and you'll understand the reason. - Mon, 24 Mar 2003 1:25am | ||
| Anonymous | you can't argue for one "side" or the other. Both are heartless regimes with no regard for human decency. We all have to agree with that. - Mon, 24 Mar 2003 12:01pm | ||
| Troutbreath | Let's see, would I rather be in a pothead band in the States or in Iraq? Hmmm.....The US is certainly far from perfect but if this were Iraq most of the people on this message board would have already been executed! - Mon, 24 Mar 2003 1:14pm | ||
| cine fletsch | no shit huh! lol - Mon, 24 Mar 2003 2:07pm | ||
| Anonymous | I think that the People of Iraq aren't fighting for Saddam,they are fighting for the future,they are afraid that if saddam is taking out,they will be left with a bunch of americans,they would rather have an evil arab ruling them than an evil american. - Mon, 24 Mar 2003 9:51pm | ||
| Anonymous | That's a good point. - Mon, 24 Mar 2003 11:10pm | ||
| Anonymous | - Tue, 25 Mar 2003 8:12pm | ||
| Anonymous | You probably missed it in the rush of news last week, but there was actually a report that someone in Pakistan had published in a newspaper an offer of a reward to anyone who killed an American, any American. So an Australian dentist wrote the following to let everyone know what an American is, so they would know when they found one: An American is English, or French, or Italian, Irish, German, Spanish, Polish, Russian or Greek. An American may also be Canadian, Mexican, African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Australian, Iranian, Asian, or Arab, or Pakistani, or Afghan. An American may also be a Cherokee, Osage, Blackfoot, Navaho, Apache, Seminole or one of the many other tribes known as native Americans. An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or Buddhist, or Muslim. In fact, there are more Muslims in America than in Afghanistan. The only difference is that in America they are free to worship as each of Them chooses. An American is also free to believe in no religion. For that he will answer only to God, not to the government, or to armed thugs claiming to speak for the government and for God. An American is from the most prosperous land in the history of the world. The root of that prosperity can be found in the Declaration of Independence, which recognizes the God given right of each person the pursuit of happiness. An American is generous. Americans have helped out just about every other nation in the world in their time of need. When Afghanistan was overrun by the Soviet army 20 years ago, Americans came with arms and supplies to enable the people to win back their country. As of the morning of September 11, Americans had given more than any other nation to the poor in Afghanistan. Americans welcome the best, the best products, the best books, the best music, the best food, the best athletes. But they also welcome the least. The national symbol of America, The Statue of Liberty, welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed. These in fact are the people who built America. Some of them were working in the Twin Towers the morning of September 11, 2001 earning a better life for their families. I've been told that the World Trade Center victims were from at least 30 other countries, cultures, and first languages, including those that aided and abetted the terrorists. So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So did General Tojo, and Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung, and every bloodthirsty tyrant in the history of the world. But, in doing so you would just be killing yourself. Because Americans are not a particular people from a particular place. They are the embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an American. - Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:59pm | ||
| Anonymous | - I think that the People of Iraq aren't fighting for Saddam,they are fighting for the future,they are afraid that if saddam is taking out,they will be left with a bunch of americans,they would rather have an evil arab ruling them than an evil american. - Mon, 24 Mar 7:51pm hmmm, an evil Arab for life or an evil american for a maximum of 8 years if - he's not impeached, sniped, or not voted in again? - Wed, 26 Mar 2003 12:32am | ||
| Anonymous | I doubt that it makes much difference to them who the chief puppet is in America, its all oppression of the same kind. - Wed, 26 Mar 2003 12:38am | ||
| Anonymous | hey who wants to make fun of the americans?(not the soldiers tho'... just the culture) hahaha americans.... so the next post has to do better than that ;) - Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:57am | ||
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